Philly, Next Great City

[Jeff L]

Todays Inquirer has a story about the naming of Philadelphia as National Georgraphic Traveler Magazine's Next Great City in its October issue. Funny, I have aways felt it to be a great city.

In addition to its great cultural and restaurant scene, the article mentions Philly has less Starbucks than other major US cities...go La Colombe!

(I posted this in the France Forum by accident)

[herbacidal]

In addition to its great cultural and restaurant scene, the article mentions Philly has less Starbucks than other major US cities...go La Colombe!

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Not just La Colombe. La Cigale, Mugshots, Old City Coffee, etc.

The collective/assocation formed for the indie coffeehouses helps a lot.

[Jeff L]

In addition to its great cultural and restaurant scene, the article mentions Philly has less Starbucks than other major US cities...go La Colombe!

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Not just La Colombe. La Cigale, Mugshots, Old City Coffee, etc.

The collective/assocation formed for the indie coffeehouses helps a lot.

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I didn't mean to exclude the other indie coffee houses, I'm really only familiar with La Colombe. Anyway, it's really important for the city to keep its indie roots not only for coffee shops but more important, restaurants. It's really nice to see a dearth of name/chain restaurants in center city.

The article also mentions the variety of upscale and ethnic food, along with the city's vibrant music scene and booming housing market for younger people moving into the city. Also, they say this about old city "arguably the livliest urban neighborhood betweeb Soho and SoBE (south beach)

[MarketStEl]

I didn't mean to exclude the other indie coffee houses, I'm really only familiar with La Colombe. Anyway, it's really important for the city to keep its indie roots not only for coffee shops but more important, restaurants. It's really nice to see a dearth of name/chain restaurants in center city.

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The indies dominate the local dining scene, and long may they do so.

But trust me, the chains have made major inroads: Maggiano's, Chili's, Fox and Hound, Buca di Beppo, Elephant & Castle...

As long as we can maintain a balance, though, <Martha>it's a good thing.</Martha>

BTW, you are aware that there are a lot of high-end chain restaurants, too, right? Here are several that have operated in Philadelphia for some time now:

Capital Grille

Ruth's Chris Steak House

Morton's of Chicago

Devon Seafood Grill (from the folks who bought you Houlihan's)

Palm Restaurant

McCormick and Schmick's

Hmmmm...most of these are steakhouses. Wonder what it is about those that make them prime chain turf?

And let us also offer a pat on the back to our homegrown chains and collections, as they have shown they can compete with the folks with the big TV ad budgets:

Bucks County Coffee

Lamberti's (I see Craig LaBan gave Positano Coast, their third try in the Space that Eats Restaurants across from the Ritz, a very good review)

Italian Bistro

Starr Restaurant Group (a collection, not a chain, and part of the reason the city's hip quotient has shot up lately)

Lee's Hoagie House (yeah, yeah, downscale, but they count; certainly they're better than Olive Garden!)

[Jeff L]

I didn't mean to exclude the other indie coffee houses, I'm really only familiar with La Colombe. Anyway, it's really important for the city to keep its indie roots not only for coffee shops but more important, restaurants. It's really nice to see a dearth of name/chain restaurants in center city.

←

The indies dominate the local dining scene, and long may they do so.

But trust me, the chains have made major inroads: Maggiano's, Chili's, Fox and Hound, Buca di Beppo, Elephant & Castle...

As long as we can maintain a balance, though, <Martha>it's a good thing.</Martha>

BTW, you are aware that there are a lot of high-end chain restaurants, too, right? Here are several that have operated in Philadelphia for some time now:

Capital Grille

Ruth's Chris Steak House

Morton's of Chicago

Devon Seafood Grill (from the folks who bought you Houlihan's)

Palm Restaurant

McCormick and Schmick's

Hmmmm...most of these are steakhouses. Wonder what it is about those that make them prime chain turf?

And let us also offer a pat on the back to our homegrown chains and collections, as they have shown they can compete with the folks with the big TV ad budgets:

Bucks County Coffee

Lamberti's (I see Craig LaBan gave Positano Coast, their third try in the Space that Eats Restaurants across from the Ritz, a very good review)

Italian Bistro

Starr Restaurant Group (a collection, not a chain, and part of the reason the city's hip quotient has shot up lately)

Lee's Hoagie House (yeah, yeah, downscale, but they count; certainly they're better than Olive Garden!)

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Hey Sandy, point taken about the chain invasion. I didn't realize that Capital Grille was a chain though, sad that, I kind of like the place. Anyway, on balance, I think those of us that know and truly appreciate Philadelphia for its one of a kind approach to life, and patronize and support local establishments have much to be proud of..

For what it's worth, I tend not to like the chain steak houses but rather prefer the less visible and less pretentous places. Places like Pete Lorenzo's in Trenton (I'm from there originally and live 20 minutes away). I haven't found a place like Pete Lorenzo's in Philly with aged steaks and grand old style wait service to match. It's kind of a throwback to earlier times. Maybe folks here can enlighten me to a steakhouse, or for that matter, any place that serves a great aged ribeye or porterhouse without the bullshit that the chains seem to bring.

[greensNbeans]

I heard this over the radio today - Congrats, Philly!

[KatieLoeb]

Everyone is finally catching on to what we who are fortunate enough to call this great city home already knew. Philly Rules!!! YAY!

Jeff L - Capital Grille is my favorite steakhouse in town, chain associations be damned. I find the food and service to be second to none. Prime Rib at the Warwick is pretty good too. There really aren't any "old school" steakhouses here like Pete Lorenzo's or Peter Luger. We have to make do with the chains. Capital is pretty good at not seeming too "chain-like" other than the consistency of the food and service.

[Jeff L]

Everyone is finally catching on to what we who are fortunate enough to call this great city home already knew. Philly Rules!!! YAY! 

Jeff L - Capital Grille is my favorite steakhouse in town, chain associations be damned.  I find the food and service to be second to none.  Prime Rib at the Warwick is pretty good too.  There really aren't any "old school" steakhouses here like Pete Lorenzo's or Peter Luger.  We have to make do with the chains.  Capital is pretty good at not seeming too "chain-like" other than the consistency of the food and service.

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Agreed Katie, as I mentioned I like it there. You are right, it is no Peter Lugers or Pete Lorenzo's (what's with Pete anyway?) though I've yet to find anything comprable to Lugers anywhere!

One place I really enjoy in NYC from my days of working there is Sparks steakhouse at 46th and 2nd. It's owned by the Cetta brothers and has a world class wine list and is also really pricey. http://www.sparkssteakhouse.com/

New York really does do steaks right but of course one needs an expense account to afford them there.

[MarketStEl]

Everyone is finally catching on to what we who are fortunate enough to call this great city home already knew. Philly Rules!!! YAY! 

Jeff L - Capital Grille is my favorite steakhouse in town, chain associations be damned.  I find the food and service to be second to none.  Prime Rib at the Warwick is pretty good too.  There really aren't any "old school" steakhouses here like Pete Lorenzo's or Peter Luger.  We have to make do with the chains.  Capital is pretty good at not seeming too "chain-like" other than the consistency of the food and service.

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Katie: One of my favorite replies when I'm asked how I like Philadelphia--I believe you may even have heard me utter it in your presence--is "It's a lot nicer than the natives crack it down to be." I've met enough non-natives who share my opinion to be firmly convinced that the only thing wrong with Philadelphia is it has too many Philadelphians in it.* (Or, in another of my fave replies, "There's nothing wrong with Philadelphia that a wholesale exchange of the population with Boston's wouldn't cure." Bostonians are convinced they live in God's Chosen City, and many of them couldn't imagine living anywhere else.) Have you also noticed that our best mayors have all been non-natives? (Yes, I wrote about that in the Inquirer too.)

As for the old-school steakhouses, we used to have a few. As I understand it, they paled in comparison to the ones you list above, or the one I mention below. They were very popular back in the days before we knew what really good restaurants were like. Once we did, these places were doomed. Frankie Bradley's is now Sisters, the city's premier lesbian bar; Arthur's became Susanna Foo, a dramatic improvement on what had been there before.

Agreed Katie, as I mentioned I like it there. You are right, it is no Peter Lugers or Pete Lorenzo's (what's with Pete anyway?) though I've yet to find anything comprable to Lugers anywhere!

[...]

New York really does do steaks right but of course one needs an expense account to afford them there.

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Awwww, jeeeez, folks, why don't you try a steakhouse in a city where they know beef? And it won't cost you an arm and a leg there, either. Just one of those limbs will suffice.

(Though I note that this place has become a local chain too. There was only one of these all the years I lived there. And so it goes: One of the same city's best barbecue joints had already morphed into a chain by the time I left the place for good in 1976.)

*Edited to add: Make that "too many of the wrong kind of Philadelphians," for the natives who hang out here definitely love and appreciate their city.

Edited September 29, 2005 by MarketStEl (log)

[herbacidal]

Well, the Saloon is local and definitely expense accountish, although it wouldn't be considered a steakhouse in the same way as the others mentioned.

[rlibkind]

Places like Pete Lorenzo's in Trenton (I'm from there originally and live 20 minutes away). I haven't found a place like Pete Lorenzo's in Philly with aged steaks and grand old style wait service to match. It's kind of a throwback to earlier times. Maybe folks here can enlighten me to a steakhouse, or for that matter, any place that serves a great aged ribeye or porterhouse without the bullshit that the chains seem to bring.

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I'm not a big fan, but The Saloon is a local that can be classified a steak house. Perhaps not the classic one, like a Peter Luger's, but it is a steak house serving excellent quality dry aged steaks.

Edited: I wrote this before scrolling down to Herb's comment, with which I obviously agree.

Edited September 29, 2005 by rlibkind (log)

[Jeff L]

Everyone is finally catching on to what we who are fortunate enough to call this great city home already knew. Philly Rules!!! YAY! 

Jeff L - Capital Grille is my favorite steakhouse in town, chain associations be damned.  I find the food and service to be second to none.  Prime Rib at the Warwick is pretty good too.  There really aren't any "old school" steakhouses here like Pete Lorenzo's or Peter Luger.  We have to make do with the chains.  Capital is pretty good at not seeming too "chain-like" other than the consistency of the food and service.

←

Katie: One of my favorite replies when I'm asked how I like Philadelphia--I believe you may even have heard me utter it in your presence--is "It's a lot nicer than the natives crack it down to be." I've met enough non-natives who share my opinion to be firmly convinced that the only thing wrong with Philadelphia is it has too many Philadelphians in it.* (Or, in another of my fave replies, "There's nothing wrong with Philadelphia that a wholesale exchange of the population with Boston's wouldn't cure." Bostonians are convinced they live in God's Chosen City, and many of them couldn't imagine living anywhere else.) Have you also noticed that our best mayors have all been non-natives? (Yes, I wrote about that in the Inquirer too.)

As for the old-school steakhouses, we used to have a few. As I understand it, they paled in comparison to the ones you list above, or the one I mention below. They were very popular back in the days before we knew what really good restaurants were like. Once we did, these places were doomed. Frankie Bradley's is now Sisters, the city's premier lesbian bar; Arthur's became Susanna Foo, a dramatic improvement on what had been there before.

Agreed Katie, as I mentioned I like it there. You are right, it is no Peter Lugers or Pete Lorenzo's (what's with Pete anyway?) though I've yet to find anything comprable to Lugers anywhere!

[...]

New York really does do steaks right but of course one needs an expense account to afford them there.

←

Awwww, jeeeez, folks, why don't you try a steakhouse in a city where they know beef? And it won't cost you an arm and a leg there, either. Just one of those limbs will suffice.

(Though I note that this place has become a local chain too. There was only one of these all the years I lived there. And so it goes: One of the same city's best barbecue joints had already morphed into a chain by the time I left the place for good in 1976.)

*Edited to add: Make that "too many of the wrong kind of Philadelphians," for the natives who hang out here definitely love and appreciate their city.

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Sandy, I have been to the original Hereford House in KC when I was entertaining executives from TWA who swore it would be the best steak I ever ate.

While it was a good steak, it didn't even come close to the other places mentioned. The thinking out there is that since this is the place where a lot of the cattle is ranched, slaughtered, etc, it stands to reason you would get the best cuts there. IMHO. this logic stopped way short of the best steak I ever had.

[MarketStEl]

Sandy,  I have been to the original Hereford House in KC when I was entertaining executives from TWA who swore it would be the best steak I ever ate.

While it was a good steak, it didn't even come close to the other places mentioned. The thinking out there is that since this is the place where a lot of the cattle is ranched, slaughtered, etc, it stands to reason you would get the best cuts there. IMHO. this logic stopped way short of the best steak I ever had.

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All righty, then. Guess I'll have to start saving now for a visit to Peter Luger's next time I'm in New York.

However, it was, is, and always will be a "Kansas City strip."

BTW, since nobody's bothered to do this yet:

You can read the actual National Geographic Traveler article online.

Edited to add: The author even managed to quantify another of my fave quips about this place: "It's not really a big city--it's actually 150 small towns all bunched together."

Edited September 29, 2005 by MarketStEl (log)

[Diann]

BTW, since nobody's bothered to do this yet:

You can read the actual National Geographic Traveler article online.

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Thanks Sandy! I've been looking for this.

[stephenc]

When chef Hamann and I return from the market, he serves me his reinvention of the Philly cheesesteak. He's reimagined the local icon as a spring roll, with the standard chopped steak and American cheese wrapped like a Chinese treat instead of stuffed into a sandwich. As Philadelphians know, you eat your cheesesteaks—even this newfangled variety—leaning over, so nothing falls onto your shoes. It isn't decorous. But it is delicious. I have two.

Umm, Chef Hamann,

Chefs in Chinatown have been doing this for years.

[MarketStEl]

When chef Hamann and I return from the market, he serves me his reinvention of the Philly cheesesteak. He's reimagined the local icon as a spring roll, with the standard chopped steak and American cheese wrapped like a Chinese treat instead of stuffed into a sandwich. As Philadelphians know, you eat your cheesesteaks—even this newfangled variety—leaning over, so nothing falls onto your shoes. It isn't decorous. But it is delicious. I have two.

Umm, Chef Hamann,

Chefs in Chinatown have been doing this for years.

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Chefs, like journalists, may not always be up on all the details of what's going on. Maybe Chef Hamann doesn't eat out much.

--Sandy, who pitched his hometown paper on the idea of doing a story on Big Charlie's Saloon in South Philly for this Sunday's Eagles-Chiefs matchup, only to find that their own NFL beat reporter had been there the previous Monday and that they were running a story on Wednesday. If you go by the distances printed in The Kansas City Star's story on the bar, the place is somewhere in East Oak Lane, not South Philly.

[Jeff L]

Sandy,  I have been to the original Hereford House in KC when I was entertaining executives from TWA who swore it would be the best steak I ever ate.

While it was a good steak, it didn't even come close to the other places mentioned. The thinking out there is that since this is the place where a lot of the cattle is ranched, slaughtered, etc, it stands to reason you would get the best cuts there. IMHO. this logic stopped way short of the best steak I ever had.

←

All righty, then. Guess I'll have to start saving now for a visit to Peter Luger's next time I'm in New York.

However, it was, is, and always will be a "Kansas City strip."

BTW, since nobody's bothered to do this yet:

You can read the actual National Geographic Traveler article online.

Edited to add: The author even managed to quantify another of my fave quips about this place: "It's not really a big city--it's actually 150 small towns all bunched together."

←

Thanks for that link Sandy, great article. I think he really got it don't you??

Jeff

[Holly Moore]

What's this "Next Great City" crap?

Other than maybe the first 3/4 of the 20th Century, Philadelphia has been a great city since the 1700's.

Philadelphia has been a world class city since the Restaurant Renaissance of the 1970's/1980's.

National Geographic Traveler Magazine is 20-25 years behind the times. Their next issue: Las Vegas, Next Gambling Hot Spot.

Edited September 29, 2005 by Holly Moore (log)

[KatieLoeb]

What's this "Next Great City" crap? 

Other than maybe the first 3/4 of the 20th Century, Philadelphia has been a great city since the 1700's. 

Philadelphia has been a world class city since the Restaurant Renaissance of the 1970's/1980's.

National Geographic Traveler Magazine is 20-25 years behind the times.  Their next issue:  Las Vegas, Next Gambling Hot Spot.

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Holly - your points are all valid and well taken. It's true that Philly has been one of the most progressive and cosmopolitan cities in the colonies and then the United States for centuries. We were, after all, the former capital of the colonies.

I moved here in 1979, so I must've missed the bad spell prior to that and before I was born. Nonetheless, I loved it here so much I decided to stay after graduation from Penn rather than move back to the New York metropolitan area. Glad I did.

[menton1]

What's this "Next Great City" crap? 

Other than maybe the first 3/4 of the 20th Century, Philadelphia has been a great city since the 1700's. 

Philadelphia has been a world class city since the Restaurant Renaissance of the 1970's/1980's.

National Geographic Traveler Magazine is 20-25 years behind the times.  Their next issue:  Las Vegas, Next Gambling Hot Spot.

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C'mon, Holly, cut them a little slack... Actually, NGT is probably the best of its breed of Travel Mags. Conde Nast and T & L are pretty much pap and shill service these days.

As far as Philly, it did have a decline in the 80s and early 90s. The clean-up of Society Hill, the gentrification of Old City, the (re) birth of Manayunk (even though some say it's now on a decline) and the opening of hundreds of new restaurants in Center City have made Philly a better, nicer place in the last 10 years. I suppose it is now really being "discovered" by those not in the know. Luckily for me, I discovered Philly inadvertently about 10 years ago and visit as often as I can even though it is 100 miles from Northern NJ where I live;

So I suppose for those of us who know and love Philly already, the secret is now out!

Edited September 30, 2005 by menton1 (log)

[Holly Moore]

Society Hill was cleaned in the 70's. Manayunk happened in the late 80s and early 90s. From the late 70s on Philadelphia's restaurants have led the way for Philadelphia's tourist and convention industries. The Book and the Cook is over 20 years old.

Granted, Old City and East Market Street are latecomers. And Starr has replaced Poses and Stein. But the opening of hundreds of restaurants in the past few years doesn't mean they are any better than the restaurants of the original Restaurant Rennaisance. Just means they reflect the current dining trends. I'll put Frog and the Commissary up against any of Starr's trendy extravaganza's and walk away a winner.

If not in the 80s, and I think there is a good arguement that Philadelphia was there then, by the early 90's, at least, Philadelphia was a great destination. That it has taken NG Travel Magazine so long to realize this doesn't speak well of their travel savvy.

Equally as upsetting as NG Travel's condescending pat on the head to Philadelphia is our civic leaders lapping it up like love starved puppies.

Edited September 30, 2005 by Holly Moore (log)

[BrentKulman]

Society Hill was cleaned in the 70's.  Manayunk happened in the late 80s and early 90s.  From the late 70s on Philadelphia's restaurants have led the way for Philadelphia's tourist and convention industries.  The Book and the Cook is over 20 years old.

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I agree with Holly.

When I was at grad school in Philadelphia in the late 70s, I saw all this first hand. I was stunned by the headlines of this thread, too, as my first reaction was the same as Holly's.

[MarketStEl]

As some of you may have already read elsewhere, I grew up in a city with a severe municipal inferiority complex much like the one we have here.

Nobody ever erected a billboard on a major highway reading "Kansas City isn't as bad as Kansas Citians say it is." The characteristic reaction of Kansas Citians to putdowns of their city is defensiveness, and they are not prone to trash it themselves.

I've met too many Philadelphians, including one who lives in very close proximity to me, who are. You can't tell me that others not native to the city don't pick this up.

Yes, Holly, you're right on one point, and it is this: The local media (and other) reaction to this article is actually a sign of insecurity, not maturity. But I'm afraid it's well earned.

Recall my asking Diann to put in a good word for this place along with me in that "NY, San Francisco, LA" thread? (Edited to add: I note she still has yet to do so.) Even Chicago gets a modicum of respect from beyond it that this city seems not to.

Philadelphia was the largest city in the colonies, and for many years was the center of American culture and commerce. (We never were its center of learning; Boston got a lock on that very early on.) But the commerce title was swiped by New York, as was the finance and publishing title. (And the advertising title to boot: Stephen Starr's restaurant Washington Square occupies part of the former headquarters building of N.W. Ayer, the country's oldest advertising agency and its largest at the time of its construction in 1929. Ayer eventually decamped for Madison Avenue.)

The point I guess I'm trying to make is that, to many outsiders, Philadelphia is a city of the past. Its glory days were when Ben Franklin walked its streets, and since then, it's been all downhill.

You, me, and a bunch of other, younger people than us may realize--or have come to realize--that the Philadelphia of the here-and-now has plenty to recommend it. But that Philadelphia was a long time in the making, just as the Boston of the 1960s emerged from the shell of a great city that had fallen on hard times in the 1930s and had never fully recovered.

Of what other US city has a comedian quipped, "I went there once, but it was closed"? (And that comedian was a native, no less, one who reportedly wanted his tombstone to read that on the whole, he'd rather be here.) And I note this coming from a city of which it was once said that there was a contest in which the first prize was a week there, and the second prize two weeks.

I still vividly recall my initial impression upon first seeing Philadelphia in 1970. It was: "This city needs a bath desperately." Hardly what you want a visitor taking home with him. It no longer needs one, but impressions like those stick.

I realize I'm rambling a bit, but I guess what I'm saying is that it often takes time for major transformations to register in the popular consciousness. The seeds planted in the 1960s and 1970s are only now beginning to bear fruit in the minds of those beyond the region, and maybe even in the minds of many of the locals.

Edited October 1, 2005 by MarketStEl (log)

[Jeff L]

Funny how threads take shape. I sure never meant for this sparring to occur. Actually, I feel kind of proud that Philly has received this acclaim from a serious magazine whether or not it has been a great city all along or not. That's all I was trying to say.

One thing for sure, Philadelphians (and those of us in the burbs) ain't afraid to speak their mind. I think everyone posting to this thread is on the same page in that they have a high regard for this city, its unique neighborhoods, culture, cuisine, music scene, and everything else that makes a great city great.

In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?

Jeff

[mrbigjas]

i don't really have a problem with the article, to tell you the truth. sure, i've been an ardent defender of the area my whole life, but it takes a long time for a city to change its image. and philadelphia had a bad one in the rest of the country for a long time. any article of that sort is going to take that kind of tone.

at least we're not here anymore:

http://mrbigjas.freeshell.org/pics/philanotbad.jpg

i still think that the thriving byob restaurant scene is something that should recommend this city to not only dedicated eaters, but to restauranteurs as well. the relatively low rents, and therefore the ability to follow your own restaurant vision without the pressure of keeping up a cellar would, i think, be really appealing...