Failed first cookie attempt

[infernooo]

Hi everyone,

Tonight I tried baking my first batch of chocolate chip cookies, and being a huge AB fan, I tried the recipe for his chewey cookies (me & my family prefer chewy).

To help you guys see where I might have gone wrong, here is EXACTLY what I did:

1.) Sifted 2.25 cups bread flour, 1/2 ts table salt (I thought 1 ts kosher salt should be around 1/2 ts table salt because its very fine), 1 ts baking soda together.

2.) The recipe called for 2 sticks of unsalted butter melted, so I melted 2 sticks of unsalted butter... then I realised that Australian butter sticks are 250g whereas american ones are 120g. So what I did was pour it into a measuring cup, stir it very well with a knife to try and distribute the fat & milk solids, then poured half into the mixing bowl (which was quite hot at this time) and put the other half in the fridge for another use.

3.) The butter then called for creaming the butter and sugar and brown sugar. To be honest, I am not sure if I creamed it for the right amount of time (too long or too short), but it seemed light & fluffy and homogenised (I used a medium/low speed to cream it). Then I added the egg and the egg yolk (fridge temperature), the 2TB milk, 1.5ts vanilla extract, all slowly and separately.

4.) I then slowly incorporated the flower on a low speed until it was mixed in.

5.) I poured in the 2 cups of chocolate chips which the mixer had a bit of a hard time with (at this stage, the small mixing bowl was almost entirely full). So the final batter seemed to have unevenly distributed choc chips.

6.) I put it in the fridge for 2 hours to "chill", but the mixture was still pretty soft after this time.

7.) Rubbed some butter on a thin metal cookie sheet, and put a piece of parchment paper on top (i buttered underneath the paper so it would stick).

8.) Scooped the cookies onto the sheet using 2 spoons (one to scoop some out of the bowl and the other to push it off the spoon). Once they were on the sheet, I molded them a touch with my hands to make them resemble round blobs.

9.) I put into a 170degree c oven (338 degrees f) whereas the recipe calls for 375degrees f (190 degree c), but I had read in the comments on the foodnetwork page that this was too high for some people.

10.) The cookies proceeded to spread into each other (even though I only had 6 on each sheet) almost as though they were liquid. I checked after 5 minutes with a knife and they were all totally gooey (no hardness anywhere). After 15 minutes, they were gooey and very dark brown (burnt I guess), without having hardened at all, they were still at a consistency between the original batter and liquid.

11.) To check if they were liquid from just being in the oven (which I doubted) I put them on a rack to cool, but they stayed gooey, so I threw them in the bin.

I would appreciate any advice anyone could give me, but I am determined to get these ones to work... I want to use AB's recipe and get the beautiful chewey ones that other people seemed to have gotten to work properly in the reviews on the foodnetwork site.

The recipe is here:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/re...6_13617,00.html

Thank you in advance for any help!

[Eliza Cross]

It seems like you followed the recipe to the letter, with a couple of exceptions.

1. It sounds like there may have been too much melted butter in your batch, given that you had to manually pour some of it in the bowl due to the size difference in sticks of butter. You halved the butter, but one size is not exactly 50 percent of the other, and from what you're describing it seems like the batter had too much fat content.

2. The oven temperature might have been too low. (Just curious - do you have an oven thermometer to check and see if your oven is really heating to the temperature the dial reads?)

3. Are you at sea level, high altitude, or somewhere in between? Altitude might have been a factor, in which case you might need to adjust the recipe.

Don't you hate having to throw away something you've worked on for so many hours? I am so sympathetic!

[Moopheus]

It seems like you followed the recipe to the letter, with a couple of exceptions.

1. It sounds like there may have been too much melted butter in your batch, given that you had to manually pour some of it in the bowl due to the size difference in sticks of butter. You halved the butter, but one size is not exactly 50 percent of the other, and from what you're describing it seems like the batter had too much fat content.

←

Also, the water and fat may have separated, so that you ended up with unequal amounts of fat in your cups.

Did AB explain why the butter should be melted? I've made many batches of cookies without ever doing that. If you try it again and the dough still seems too soft (was it stiff enough to form a ball, or was it runny?) you try the freezer.

[chefpeon]

I know exactly what went wrong.

I make AB's Cookies all the time.

The reason you melt the butter is because you DON'T want to incorporate air into this particular batter. Incorporating air into a butter/sugar mixture is one of the big factors that cookies spread.

Your error was trying to cream the melted butter/sugar. All you have to do is combine it. Creaming is not necessary.

After two hours in the fridge, your dough should be pretty darn hard. If you did have too much butter in it, then it would have been harder still. I don't really think your butter measure was much off, to be honest.

It also helps to mix the dough, then scoop it into balls right off the mixer. It's easier to scoop, and the dough chills down much faster.

BTW: a stick of US butter is 4 ounces, which converts to 113 grams.

[duckduck]

By AB, I'm assuming you mean Alton Brown? I've tried his panna cotta brain recipe that turned out like rubber. I've had other people tell me they've had trouble with his recipes. I've kind of learned to just enjoy his show and leave it at that.

[chefpeon]

By AB, I'm assuming you mean Alton Brown? I've tried his panna cotta brain recipe that turned out like rubber. I've had other people tell me they've had trouble with his recipes. I've kind of learned to just enjoy his show and leave it at that.

In my 15 years as a pastry chef, you know what I've discovered? That no recipe is fool-proof or mistake proof. Whether it's written by Alton Brown, Pierre Herme, Rose Levy Berenbaum, Sherry Yard, Jacques Torres, Betty Crocker, or whomever.......there are so many variables in methodology, ingredients, altitudes, temperatures, measurements, that someone is bound to have trouble with what many claim to be the "best" recipe for anything.

I would say 90% of the time the error lies with the baker. 10% can be just plain crappy recipes, or misprints.

When I have shared recipes with friends, and written them as concisely and clearly as I thought possible, there have been times when they've still had trouble. In reviewing the processes followed, I invariably find out that:

A) there was something I had left out, ASSUMING that people know what I know,

or B) something they did that they didn't think was worth mentioning at first (like for instance,

"I used cake flour in my pate choux....that wouldn't have made a difference would it?).

Don't always blame the recipe because you had trouble the first time.....it may not be the recipe.

[Trishiad]

I make AB's chocolate chips cookies from his book. That recipe calls for melting the butter too, I think. I'm not so good at following rules and always cream the butter with the sugar. These cookies don't seem to mind. They are the perfect shape and the raw dough is kinda flaky. They are by far my fav.

Is it a fluke that I have good results even though I'm a creamer???

[Steven Blaski]

Does he really call for *bread* flour? I've never heard of a cookie with bread flour. Is that supposed to make it chewier? Seems like it would make one tough cookie.

[infernooo]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the replies, I will be giving them another go tomorrow, let them sit in the fridge overnight, then bake on tuesday. I'll try and remember to take photos this time!

In regards to melting the butter: Yep it specifically states to melt the butter.

chefpeon: I believe you 100% which is why I am going to follow your advice tomorrow, however the recipe does say to cream the mixture! (evvvil recipe writers).

The funny thing is that while I was trying to get to sleep (and pondering my failed cookies... I had a feeling that I had somehow accidentally put in 1 cup of flour instead of the 2.25 cups! that would DEFINATELY be a major problem, and now that I think about it, that could be why they were so runny couldnt it?.. I'm not positive that I did somehow forget to add the rest, but I had this strong feeling)

In regards to bread flour: Yep! The higher protein content combined with the water in the melted butter forms gluten to cause, making them chewey.

Thanks again everyone and I'll let you all know how it goes .

[chefpeon]

Is it a fluke that I have good results even though I'm a creamer???

Probably not.

I was just going by infernoos initial description of her methodology. Assuming she had measured

everything correctly, the only conclusion I could come to was in the creaming, since she mentioned she wasn't sure if she creamed it for too short or too long a time. She also described the creamed mixture as being "light and fluffy". In my experience, when you cream a melted butter/sugar mixture til it's "light and fluffy", then you are creaming it to the point where the butter has a chance to cool down and start being able to form air cells again. You'd have to be creaming the mixture for well over 10 minutes for that to start to happen. Maybe longer. She gave no time frame, so I honestly didn't know how long she creamed it.

If you "cream" AB's recipe for like, say, less than 5 minutes, it's not really going to affect anything. As long as the butter is still in it's melted state, very little in the amount, of air cells form.

In fact, I believe that "creaming" is probably the wrong word to use in this particular recipe. In order for true "creaming" to occur, you'd have to whip it for a heck of a long time. I believe the instructions should read: "Mix butter and sugars on medium speed until smooth, about 2 minutes."

Leave the word "creaming" out!

BUT.......since infernoo now believes she only used one cup of flour.....there you have it. Her results were consistent with too little flour. Very much so. Especially the softness of the dough out of the fridge.

Yeah, AB's recipe does call for bread flour. I don't always have it, so when I use AP instead, I have to increase the amount of flour by about a 1/4 cup or so. Infernoo is right about the gluten forming to make a chewier cookie. It's not tough at all. In fact, when I do use bread flour, I mix it just a tad longer than regular cookie dough to develop the gluten just a bit more. Makes for less spread too.

[infernooo]

Wow, thanks for that reply! At least now I have a better idea of whats going on when making the cookie dough!

I am soooo embarrassed that I somehow added only 1 cup of flour... I must have gotten side tracked because I can't think of any other way I could possibly do that having the recipe sitting right in front of me haha!

Thanks again everyone for all the suggestions, ill be making the mixture today and baking it tomorrow (with photo's so I can record what the different stages look like for future reference).

[JFLinLA]

I bake these all the time. As I've stated elsewhere in eG, I scoop the dough then freeze the little, or not so little, lumps of dough. Then straight into a hot oven. By baking at the temp called for, you will reduce spread. As the bake from the outside in, the heat will "set" the shape of the cookie before it is baked through.

Cold or even frozen dough and a hot oven will get you what you want.

[jgarner53]

JFinLA, when you scoop, do you flatten the scoops out at all before freezing, or just scoop & freeze?

I have made these cookies numerous times, but have never frozen the dough and baked from frozen.

[laniloa]

I prefer them when frozen first rather then chilling for a few hours. I find they have a slight bite to the crust while still being wonderfully chewy. Also, they look more impressive (for a home baker) as they tend to look more uniform like bakery bought.

[pastrymama]

I would like to know from anyone that has made this recipe if the baked cookies are good for a day to 3 or 4 days after baking. And has anyone mailed these to anyone with good results or good review from the people receiving them. Thanks for any response.

[chefpeon]

I would like to know from anyone that has made this recipe if the baked cookies are good for a day to 3 or 4 days after baking.

I was going to answer that question, but realized that when I bake these cookies, they never last 3 or 4 days.....they get eaten up before then! So, uh, I don't know.......they definitely are great for 2 days.....I know that.

As far as "mailability" goes, they're just as mailable as any other cookie I would guess. When I mail cookies, I always layer them carefully between parchment or waxed paper, and make sure they cannot move around inside the box. I always prefer to put a box in a box when I'm mailing food items.

Edited September 20, 2005 by chefpeon (log)

[JFLinLA]

In reply to the last few posts:

I do not flatten, just scoop and freeze.

I completely agree with laniloa. This method gets me a nice outside crunch and chewy insides and pretty cookies. Frozen dough, hot oven, does the trick.

Yes, I have sent them and they held up. I have also made large quantities for a big event and they did hold up for a few days.

Totally agree with chefpeon for how to mail.

[chefpeon]

I do not flatten, just scoop and freeze.

I completely agree with laniloa. This method gets me a nice outside crunch and chewy insides and pretty cookies. Frozen dough, hot oven, does the trick.

I decided to do the freezing thing last night, since I wanted my "boys" to come home to a plate full of hot chocolate chip cookies after the football game (as it turned out, we lost 48-0), so if there was any time they needed cookies, it was then!

My observations:

Before I froze them, I flattened them a bit, knowing it would be hard to do so once frozen.

I baked them at 375, straight out of the freezer. They turned out nice and round and thick, which

was nice, and as I sort of expected, they hardly spread at all.

The color was a bit splotchy, and I didn't get that nice attractive "crackle" appearance like I do when I bake from the refrigerator. They had a nice texture.

I think if I bake from the freezer next time, I will flatten them a lot more, and may turn the oven

up a notch.

[infernooo]

Hi everyone,

I tried making them again and had slightly more success (yet was still a bit disappointed).

This time, I mixed the butter with the sugar less than last time and made sure that I used the ingredients exactly as they appeared in the recipe (including using 1 stick of australian butter and cutting off a bit of it so that it was ~ 230 - 240g to equal 2 US sticks). I scooped out the mixture after I had mixed it and put it on parchment paper lined cookies trays, covered them and put them in the refrigerator overnight. One thing that I came away knowing is that scooping them straight after mixing is MUCH easier than trying to scoop them when the mixture has hardened in the fridge overnight.

I put them straight into the oven from the fridge, however I changed the temperature in the recipe from 375F (190C) to 330F (~170C). The problem is that even though I had lowered the temperature, when they were "done" (i.e. if I left them in there longer they would brown too much) and had cooled... they were definately not cooked properly. I even cooked them for 18 minutes!

They were "fudgy" inside (like the mixture inside was halfway between the raw dough and being cooked) and definately not chewy due to this.

I have included some pictures of them both inside and out.. does anyone have any ideas?

My only thoughts are that next time I will put the temperature even lower (perhaps 150C = 300F).. maybe my oven is just very hot (before anyone asks, YES I do have an oven thermometer and the oven was at the perfect temperature.. I made sure of it) and it is also an electric fan based oven.

This is the cookie mixture just before it went into the oven:

This is the cookies just as they came out of the oven:

This is the inside of the cookies.. notice that it doesnt appear to be cooked properly and is "fudgy":

Thanks again!

[Beanie]

My only thoughts are that next time I will put the temperature even lower (perhaps 150C = 300F).. maybe my oven is just very hot (before anyone asks, YES I do have an oven thermometer and the oven was at the perfect temperature.. I made sure of it) and it is also an electric fan based oven.

The original recipe called for a 375 degree oven, but you have a convection oven which should usually be set about 50 degrees lower. I'd definitely try it at 300 degrees and I'd also try baking the cookies from a frozen state. But really, they look so good. I wish I could jump through the computer screen and grab them!

[M.X.Hassett]

For a second I thought Bourdain had a cookie recipe out

I would try lowering oven temp, I have an oven that you can toggle the fan on and off and find the best results at around 325-350

[CanadianBakin']

I do not flatten, just scoop and freeze.

I completely agree with laniloa. This method gets me a nice outside crunch and chewy insides and pretty cookies. Frozen dough, hot oven, does the trick.

I decided to do the freezing thing last night, since I wanted my "boys" to come home to a plate full of hot chocolate chip cookies after the football game (as it turned out, we lost 48-0), so if there was any time they needed cookies, it was then!

My observations:

Before I froze them, I flattened them a bit, knowing it would be hard to do so once frozen.

I baked them at 375, straight out of the freezer. They turned out nice and round and thick, which

was nice, and as I sort of expected, they hardly spread at all.

The color was a bit splotchy, and I didn't get that nice attractive "crackle" appearance like I do when I bake from the refrigerator. They had a nice texture.

I think if I bake from the freezer next time, I will flatten them a lot more, and may turn the oven

up a notch.

←

I was wondering if rolling the dough into a 2" log, chilling and then cutting pieces about 1/2" thick would work better than scooping? They'd still be uniform and flatter so they might cook more evenly and spread better. When I was waiting at a grocery store bakery counter one day, I noticed that the cookie dough they had came out of the box this way so I think I might give it a try. Of course I have no idea whether they bake from frozen or not but I'm thinking they probaly do.

[M.X.Hassett]

[CanadianBakin']

Turns out this conversation has been timely. I just got 2 orders for chocolate chip cookies for a total of 450 - 2oz and 250 - 1oz. The first batch for this friday morning and the second for saturday morning. I have 3-year old twins and I will be working all day at my salaried job on thursday and friday so it's gonna be a bit tight for time but I'm sure I'll manage. I hate to say no when I'm just getting going. It's a good thing my girls still nap and go to bed at 7pm.

Anyways, I'll be using AB's recipe but I've only made it on a small scale before. I think I'm going to use the "ice box" cookie idea for portioning. I don't think my wrist can handle 700 scoops in such a short period of time. I'm just wondering how long I should freeze the dough before cutting? Or is it a trial and error thing? It's about 3:30pm my time and I've just put 4 - 2" rolls in the freezer. Is 2 hours OK or should it be longer? Any advice on how to do this quickly would be much appreciated. I haven't yet located a commercial kitchen to rent (although I should hear back on one soon) so it will be in my home oven. I was thinking of baking 2 sheets at a time and rotating half way through. Is this ok or should I stick to one pan at a time.

[JFLinLA]

My only thoughts are that next time I will put the temperature even lower (perhaps 150C = 300F).. maybe my oven is just very hot (before anyone asks, YES I do have an oven thermometer and the oven was at the perfect temperature.. I made sure of it) and it is also an electric fan based oven.

The original recipe called for a 375 degree oven, but you have a convection oven which should usually be set about 50 degrees lower. I'd definitely try it at 300 degrees and I'd also try baking the cookies from a frozen state. But really, they look so good. I wish I could jump through the computer screen and grab them!

←

No, no, no. I also have a convection oven and use this same recipe at 375. The goal is to get the outside cooked enough to set the shape before there is too much spread, then just finish cooking through. Maybe there is not as much difference between standard and regular with a home convection oven vs. a commercial one. Lower the temp and you'll get too much spread. I'd prefer you to keep your temp and adjust your baking time if need be. Of course, every oven is different so you'll figure yours out.