Burger helper

[TPO]

As to making your life simple -- if you really want the chicken/veggie/seafood burgers I would perhaps wait to introduce them one at a time six months after your business opens as new items, just to see what the reaction to each of them is.

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I really think that Jason is correct here. I keep thinking about Spike's Junkyard Dogs, which started as a small shop seeing 100% beef hot dogs, fresh buns, and curly fries, period. They built a huge following here in RI and expanded into MA, won a bunch of "best hot dog" awards, and only then did they test market and introduce, first, chicken breast sandwiches (that fit right into those buns, natch), and then wings. Simple, simple, simple.

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I've been thinking about this, and I think Jason and the others are right. When you open, stick to just burgers or, if you really want something else, burgers and chicken. Or do specials to test them, such as one day a week offering the fish burger or the portobello burger. Besides, it might be easier to add things as time goes on than to take them away if they don't work out.

Also, if you offer a vegetarian choice but fry the fries in beef tallow, you end up with another complication. That's another reason why I am reconsidering my previous portobello enthusiasm.

[Magus]

I've been thinking about this, and I think Jason and the others are right. When you open, stick to just burgers or, if you really want something else, burgers and chicken. Or do specials to test them, such as one day a week offering the fish burger or the portobello burger. Besides, it might be easier to add things as time goes on than to take them away if they don't work out.]

I've been mulling this over as well. I have taken my captain conquer the world cape of for a couple of days. I beleve that you are all correct in this matter. So I will have what I want to call FREESTYLE FRIDAYS, where we reserve the right to add something "special" to the menu. This wayI can market test items and not have to commit and then take away from the menu. This way, customers know that they can get the original menu at all times and if they wanted to try something different, they can do that as well, It will also keep things exciting. Besides...making signs and remaking signs can be costly.

Also, if you offer a vegetarian choice but fry the fries in beef tallow, you end up with another complication. That's another reason why I am reconsidering my previous portobello enthusiasm

You are right again! While the griddle is very versatile, the fryer is not. So, in order to be able to serve fries to my vegetarian friends, I could have a regular deepfryer as well as counter top fryer.

Or

Just forgo the veggie market all together.

Did McD's get into trouble because they advertised there fries were veggie or did people just "think" because they were potatoes, they were veggie. I figure if I dont advertise that they are veggie, I wont get in trouble.

Update, I have researched McD's issue with their fries and now I have to see if this is O.K to do with my lawyers.

I will have a counter top fryer for my veggie customers.

On the menu I will say [Fries... (these fries may have come in contact with animal products) as a disclaimer

Veggie Fries ( Fries that have not come in contact with any animal products)

The beef tallow fries will be in the bigger fryer.

Yes, It will be more work but it is worth not going through what McD's went through.

Edited September 30, 2005 by Magus (log)

[Jason Perlow]

Just forgo the veggie market all together.

This is honestly your best bet in my opinion. A second fryer takes up space. You have a trailer to work with, not a full service restaurant.

Mcdonalds got into trouble not because they fried their fries in beef tallow (which they havent done for over 20 years) but because the frozen fries they use are seasoned with beef flavoring and this really ticked off their Hindu customers in the U.S, and a number of lawsuits followed because Mcdonalds did not disclose this up front. This caused further outrage in India, where Mcdonalds has a number of stores. It should be noted that in India, McDonalds doesnt serve ANY beef products and the fries are totally Vegan.

[Shalmanese]

Seriously, f**k the vegetarians. America needs a big, macho man restaurant for men who live meat, fat and heart attacks and lots of em.

[Magus]

Seriously, f**k the vegetarians. America needs a big, macho man restaurant for men who live meat, fat and heart attacks and lots of em.

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LMAO...O.K I get your point (still laughing)

[Magus]

Patties

Having a butcher make the burgers reduces the time and effort I have to spend making the burgers myself, But it also puts the quality of my food into someone elses hands.

If I do it myself, then the quality is done controled inhouse and also reduces the probability that I would have to freeze burgers.

The only thing that is tricky now is determining patty mixture. I have read in a thread that shake shack uses a combo sirloin/brisket mix. Dont know what percentage of each type of beef.

How would one cut the meat, mix the meat (percentage wise) then add fat to a mound of burger meat evenly.

I am planning to make balls and smash them on the griddle for the uneven edges.

Also, I saw one burger stand make different size burgers with the same size burgers by adding more patties to the burger ordered. This seemed like a good idea to be able to cook them faster, add different cheeses to eaach patty to meld the flavors toghether, and not have to worry about stocking, or making different size burgers.

[Magus]

I have also never tasted a burger on a kaiser roll. Has anyone ever tasted burgers this way and if so, how did it taste as far as texture with wet condiments.

Another question: Do you think it is better to have one patty on a bun vs. many

[Jason Perlow]

Also, I saw one burger stand make different size burgers with the same size burgers by adding more patties to the burger ordered. This seemed like a good idea to be able to cook them faster, add different cheeses to eaach patty to meld the flavors toghether, and not have to worry about stocking, or making different size burgers.

Yeah, doubles and triples are your best bet.

[viva]

Another question: Do you think it is better to have one patty on a bun vs. many

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Many. The slice of cheese *between* two patties is very important - it gets all gooey and mixed up with the meat juices

Also a higher meat-to-bun ratio. At many burger joints I end up taking the top half of the bun off, because there's too much bread relative to the meat.

[shelora]

Magus, you are toasting or grilling the bun aren't you?

And did you find out anything about Kennebeck potatoes?

s

[Magus]

Magus, you are toasting or grilling the bun aren't you?

And did you find out anything about Kennebeck potatoes?

s

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No, I was unable to. I did find alot of restaurants use them and I have found recipes that use them but nothing on the potato itself.

And yes, Buns will be toated on the griddle.

Edited September 30, 2005 by Magus (log)

[shelora]

Magus, you are toasting or grilling the bun aren't you?

And did you find out anything about Kennebeck potatoes?

s

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No, I was unable to. I did find alot of restaurants use them and I have found recipes that use them but nothing on the potato itself.

Well that is odd.

And yes, Buns will be toated on the griddle.

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Perfect. They sound more and more like icon burgers. I can almost taste them.

[MarketStEl]

I have also never tasted a burger on a kaiser roll. Has anyone ever tasted burgers this way and if so, how did it taste as far as texture with wet condiments.

Another question: Do you think it is better to have one patty on a bun vs. many

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Having sort of touted Kaiser rolls upthread, I am now going to not quite contradict myself by saying that when I've eaten a burger on a Kaiser roll, the bread gets in the way of the meat.

Good old white-bread burger buns toast well, and the toasting gets rid of any potential problem with your condiments. But once again, if you want something distinctive, you could try potato rolls or challah bread buns. Both of these will also toast OK, and they have an interesting sweetness to them.

[Magus]

I have been thinking about buns for the past few days. It seems that buns can fall into two categories, utility and part of overall taste. If it is used just as a utility item, then any bun will do, toasted or not. but if it is viewed as part of the overall taste then more through and trial and error will need to go more into it.

The plane bun...toated seems to fall into the utility category. It does not add to the taste of the overall burger but it does add to the texture of the overall product.

The potato bun...while adding some sweetness to the overall burger also adds a bit more hardieness to the burger.

Today, I made a burger except I butter toasted the heel and crown of the bun. I was amazed of the outcome. Being we dont hae tastebuds on the roof of our mouths, I was able to taste the butter on the heel of the burger first, before I tasted any of the condiments. It seemed to go in great order...the toasted texture of the heel, then the butter flavor of the heel then the seasoned burger, then the condiments.

Is the bun thing being over thought?

[liri]

Just a note for the veg. option...back in college when I wasn't eating red-meat I'd often order a Whopper w/no meat patty- no need for a portabella burger when I was just in the mood for a quick meal. I visited the West Coast and had the In-n-Out grilled cheese animal style and raved about it to all my friends back home. There's a great and v. successful buger grill here..they have kept it very simple as a veg. there I would order their grilled cheese with tomato, even though they had a veggie burger option. If a restaurant didn't have a special veggie patty I'd prefer a bun with just good fixings as opposed to a frozen burger that I could easily make myself at home. Have to have the good fries though!

[M.X.Hassett]

I just found this rereading the Danny Meyer q&a, Blue smoke burger meat, "after lots of trial, we've ended up with a beef blend that is 33% brisket, 33% shoulder clod, and 33% chuck. It's about 85% lean and 15% fat. And it's is ground fresh daily."

Edit: and theres this http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=15390

Edited October 2, 2005 by M.X.Hassett (log)

[divalasvegas]

I agree with Shalmanese's colorfully made point upthread. Also, if you serve a portobella burger as a vegetarian option, will you have a dedicated portion of your grill just for that? You really don't need the headache of vegetarians complaining that their burger has come in contact with beef grease and I'm sure space is a premium.

As an aside, there's a bbq joint near me that serves pretty decent bbq. I once ordered greens as a side order and noticed that they tasted pretty terrible. I asked the proprieter if she used any pork products in her greens and she said no because of her vegetarian customers (her exact words). Why vegetarians would frequent a bbq joint is beyond me. Haven't been back there in a while.

As always, I wish you the greatest of success.

Edited to correct my misspelling of Shalmanese's name. Sorry.

Edited October 2, 2005 by divalasvegas (log)

[Magus]

There has been some talk of White Manna. I looked for images of this restaurant and it looks kinda small. Has anyone been to White Manna to eat. How is the food there? It seems that they have been around for a long time.

[divalasvegas]

There has been some talk of White Manna. I looked for images of this restaurant and it looks kinda small. Has anyone been to White Manna to eat. How is the food there? It seems that they have been around for a long time.

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Hi Magus. There's a thread here at eGullet on White Manna.

White Manna Discussion

Take care.

[Magus]

Thanks Diva

I now come to the question of customer service. When I go to any "fast food" place, there is a level of customer service that I have learned to expect.

1.Getting my order correct.

2. Being served in a somewhat speedy manner.

I want to break that mold.

I have my own preconcieved notion of what GREAT customer service is.

1. Treat my customers like I would treat my mother...(this is good )

2. The customer is ALWAYS right.

3. I wont serve people the qulality of food that I would not eat myself.

4. Under promise and over deliver.

5. I am not in the food business...I am in the people business...without people I have no business.

6. Make sure that all of my customers become my biggest fan by giving them a Fantastic product at a competitive price and knock your socks off customer service.

What are your thoughts.

[MarketStEl]

Thanks Diva

I now come to the question of customer service. When I go to any "fast food" place, there is a level of customer service that I have learned to expect.

1.Getting my order correct.

2. Being served in a somewhat speedy manner.

I want to break that mold.

I have my own preconcieved notion of what GREAT customer service is.

1. Treat my customers like I would treat my mother...(this is good )

2. The customer is ALWAYS right.

3. I wont serve people the qulality of food that I would not eat myself.

4. Under promise and over deliver.

5. I am not in the food business...I am in the people business...without people I have no business.

6. Make sure that all of my customers become my biggest fan by giving them a Fantastic product at a competitive price and knock your socks off customer service.

What are your thoughts.

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We have long since determined that you are not going to be serving "fast food," so I think that by now, you should not be using the fast food industry as the template for anything you want to do. Instead, compare yourself to a classic diner or local drive-in restaurant--a place that specializes in good, honest food prepared to order but served reasonably quickly by people who respect you as a customer (which, at a diner, does not preclude a dose of attitude--it's often part of the charm).

Your own precepts are philosophically quite close to those of many of the most admired and successful companies in America. Live up to them and you'll have legions of satisfied customer-fans, and you'll be happy too.

[M.X.Hassett]

White Manna thread, http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=4248&hl=

I have eaten there(Hackensack) it is tiny as are the burgers they are in the style of white castle, they are damn tasty, but a whole different beast than the burgers you plan on making.

[maui420]

hi,

for your sign, maybe it would be better if 'burgers and shakes' are on the top and the 'original' on the bottom?

how about also having an icon/symbol of somesort. if the food gets good with the young generation, im sure they would like to sport tshirts or car stickers with the name of the burger joint. also have your staff and yourself dress the part.

for the fries id serve'em plain and have a bunch of condiments sitting out front like old bay, red wine vinnegar, ranch dressing, cheeze whiz, salt, pepper, and maybe some bacon bits? my wife and I love some bacon ranch cheese fries!

milkshakes should be THICK! i cant stand it when i order a milkshake from a ice cream place or restaurant and its so thin.

my friend and I are planning to have somthing like this in 2-3 yrs. either a breakfast/bagel/bakery place or a fried chicken joint/bbq.

Well, I took a long look at the name Dining Car and all who responded to thiswere correct. I would rather have a limited menu but have everything taste GREAT! I am also working on making the logo look more aged...maybe it is not necessary to do so but here is my first try:

Vintage Look

New Look

As far as me making my own tallow, freezing it and mixing it with burgers. I have to make sure that the final secrets   wont be let out by employees.

I may have to have two types of frying oil. If someone orders Veggie fries then I can cook thoes in regular oil.

I have also seen alot of post about hand cut fries and double frying. I have never tasted a fresh cut fry that was double fried. Can anyone weigh in on this. Is it worth the trouble.

From what I gather, you must cut, soak in cold water (how long I dont know) then let them dry on a towel, fry once at mabe 300 degrees, put them back in the fridge, then fry them again when ordered.  If this is what it will take to make the best fries in town then I must do it.  No one else in my city is doing it, so that would make me original.

Thoughts...

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[Magus]

Well, I went back to the drawing board with the logo. I believe that my logo should embody the business. I wanted a colorful yet a no nonsense attitued, something stable yet flexable, understated yet...well you get the idea.

Also wanted something to start the branding phase of the business. Where people can associate taste with logo. The good thing is that all the work is now copywriten. While it is nice to think of droves of people wearing t-shirts and such, the name or logo wont mean a thing unless the food is on point so that sill remains my focus.

Here is the latest logo:

This will be used for menus, letterheads, t-shirts, caps, hoodies, etc. The other the first logo posted will be used to hold the butcher paper on the burgers along with any special request.

[Magus]

I just wanted to say a big "THANK YOU!" to EVERYONE who have contributed to this post. I never thought that this post would be responded to at the level it has. I have learned sooooo much from all of you and I am still learning. You folks are great people and I truly thank you.