North African food in America

[chefzadi]

Thank you! this is exactly what I was curious about, but too clueless

to ask properly about.

ANd it explains to me why Egypt (east of Nile) is not included

in the Maghreb region in the local view..

No part of Egypt for cultural/culinary purposes is part of the Maghreb. I want to post more about this, but this is food site. The explaination goes way back into history.

The present day group of people who identify themselves as Maghrebis are simply put Moroccans, Algerians and Tunisians.

(Sometimes Mauritania and Libya. But again, that goes into other non-food related topics)

Edited July 19, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

[Milagai]

Thank you! this is exactly what I was curious about, but too clueless

to ask properly about.

ANd it explains to me why Egypt (east of Nile) is not included

in the Maghreb region in the local view..

No part of Egypt for cultural/culinary purposes is part of the Maghreb. I want to post more about this, but this is food site. The explaination goes way back into history.

The present day group of people who identify themselves as Maghrebis are simply put Moroccans, Algerians and Tunisians.

(Sometimes Mauritania and Libya. But again, that goes into other non-food related topics)

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right you are.

not wanting to hijack thread, simply to say thanks for the

explanations...

milagai

[chefzadi]

If anyone who is reading this has a North African restuarant and they know that the food and menu needs improvement, I offer to teach you how to cook North African dishes for and redesign your menu at no charge. Tell me who your customer base is, size of kitchen, etc...

[SuzySushi]

Just came across this article on Moroccan Cuisine in the current issue of Prepared Foods.

[Pam R]

After recently moving business, I was unpacking my cookbooks in my office a couple of days ago. One that I found, but didn't know I had was North African Cooking. Who knew?

Many of the recipes sound amazing and as soon as I get a chance I'm giving them a try.

The author does include Egypt in this region though.

[Wolfert]

I have many old Middle Eastern cookbooks which include North African recipes.

Perhaps the publishers thought it was strategic marketing to get the widest audience possible.

Edited July 30, 2005 by Wolfert (log)

[Daniel Rogov]

Most Israelis are very aware of the sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle differences not only between the dishes of the Maghreb, of what we consider the Middle-East, of the Balkans and of other Mediterranean (or, if one prefers Med-Rim) cuisines. More than that, there is a general awareness of the differences between tent cooking and palace cooking.

In fact, if one were to do a census of restaurants throughout Israel, you would find that the largest influences in low- to medium-priced restaurants are from the Maghreb and what most think of as when talking about "Arab cuisine", those followed by more formal Middle-Eastern cookery, and then, as one moves to more expensive and more "prestigious" restaurants to influences from France, Italy and other countries. Despite large immigrations of those from the former USSR, Russian restaurants remain confined to neighborhods with large populations of those immigrants and remain at the folk-level, that is to say, lower priced. The same is true of Ethiopian cuisine. Even though highly prized,even as festive meals, those meals are often served as part of family or community celebrations and are not taken in restaurants.

Although the cuisine of Morocco (for example) is highly prized by those who know it, very few prestigious restaurants have opened featuring that cuisine. As to why this is - two hypotheses - first being that these are the foods that many most often associate with home and family and thus with everyday dining and not with prestige and high prices; second (somewhat more severe) that in many lands the foods of one's perceived "enemies" (even though we may ourselves have roots in those enemy lands) is not highly prized or valued.

Also worth keeping in mind that most Israelis simply do not patronize the more expensive restaurants of the country and that what is considered in other countries as "ethnic" is here still thought of as "local" and "family oriented".

Much the same would apply in Israel were we talking about the foods usually thought of as "Jewish" in most countries (gefilte fish, cholent, kishke, etc). Such dishes, Ashkenazi in their roots, are, of course no more Jewish than are those brought to the country by Sepharadi Jews, and so called "Jewish restaurants" are, for the most part also moderately priced, relatively simple eateries.

Another truth of the matter when it comes to true Arab foods - the best of those are prepared not by Jews but by Arabs. Believe me, there is no Jewish humous joint in Israel that makes humous as well as it is made in Arab villages or quarters of cities with large Arab populations. As to shakshouka, best in the country are at simple joints where the person doing most of the cooking is indeed the mother of the family that owns the place. Same, of course with gefilte fish.

As to the USA, I very much wonder if the great number of immigrants from any of the countries that have been mentioned would prefer to dine on those dishes (a) at home ,(b) in simple home-like eateries © in prestigious or even and heaven forbid (d) mass-market chain restaurants. My guess is that (a) and (b) will dominate. As to others, the adventurous will join the immigrants at the restaurants they most enjoy and although they may visit a luxuriously decorated Moroccan restaurant once, they will not make such places regular ports of call.

Edited July 31, 2005 by Daniel Rogov (log)

[Behemoth]

Another truth of the matter when it comes to true Arab foods - the best of those are prepared not by Jews but by Arabs.  Believe me, there is no Jewish humous joint in Israel that makes humous as well as it is made in Arab villages or quarters of cities with large Arab populations. 

Daniel, not to hijack this thread, but since we're talking about perceptions of culture through food, do you think this is really true? It seems like hummus is one of those foods that depends less on the quality of the ingredients than on the technique and would therefore be easy to duplicate well.

I am just asking because at one point we had a big discussion of that here.

I would love to hear your take on it.

[Behemoth]

Also to answer Daniel's question: interestingly enough there were several "fancy" Lebanese places in Hamburg. As a Lebanese I found it rather amusing to receive my mezza in the form of a tasting menu, but those places seem to do quite well. For whatever that's worth. In any case in Hamburg it just seems like French food is associated with fusty stuff your parents like to eat, so there is more enthusiasm for chic places that offer other types of cuisine.

I haven't seen truly upscale Arabic/North African food in the States, but then mostly in the US upscale still almost inevitably means French. (it's slowly changing, and there are exceptions in serious food cities like NY or Chicago, but generally it still seems to hold true.)

[Daniel Rogov]

It seems like hummus is one of those foods that depends less on the quality of the ingredients than on the technique and would therefore be easy to duplicate well.

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True enough that to the point that although Tel Avivians will eat humous at many of their neighborhood humous joints but when they want really good humous they go to Jaffa or even as far as Ramle; from Caesaria they drive to the restaurants in Akko; from Jerusalem they drive to Abu Ghosh, and when in the Galilee invariably to Arab villages or roadside restaurants. We even joke that there is "Jewish humous" and believe me, that isn't a compliment.

Go a step further, the better of the Jewish owned humous joints invariably have Arabs working in the kitchen. The worst of them make their humous to far in advance, in too large quantities, etc, etc. and some of them (god will forgive them but I won't) buy pre-made bulk from the big food producers.

A few exceptions - for example, in Tel Aviv some of the humous offered only in the mornings in the Yemeni quarter. True, many of the people who own these places are Jews but I can assure you of one thing - they all speak Arabic fluently.

As to why only in the mornings - simple enough - a really good humous joint makes just enough humous to sell out by noon or one p.m. Among the cogniscenti, humous is a food best consumed in the morning or, at very latest, for an early lunch.

With re quality of ingredients vs technique -respectfully disagreed. The quality of the humous beans and of the olive oil are no less important than the precise way in which they are cooked and then crushed and blended......none of which are easily mastered at all.

Edited July 31, 2005 by Daniel Rogov (log)

[Behemoth]

I really don't see why a non-Arab can't learn to make a decent plate of hummus. Sure the quality of the olive oil matters, but it's not like Arabs have cornered the market on good olive oil. Frankly the best hummus I ever had was made by a Japanese cook in a Greek restaurant (and for what it's worth I come from a long line of good Arab cooks...)

Daniel, I really am a big fan of your writing and I certainly don't mean this to be directed at you personally as it is something I have come across many times, but to be honest, I never realized there was such a fetishization of hummus until I left Lebanon, and frankly it has always struck me as a little...condescending I guess is the word that comes to mind first.

edit: I don't think I was clear in my original post -- I meant that the ingredients that are needed to make a good plate of hummus are generally available to anyone who seeks them, unlike, say, the ingredients needed to duplicate a dish out of the French Laundry cookbook.

Edited July 31, 2005 by Behemoth (log)

[Daniel Rogov]

Behemoth, Hi....

In a way, I have to agree with you. Given the right ingredients and the basic technique, it should indeed be possible for anyone to make fine humous. The proof of the puddng (or in this specific case, the humous) is in the eating and as much as I can enjoy the humous at the little joint on Ashtoria ha Parchi street near my home, it simply doesn't stand up to the test of fine humous.

He makes great "harif" (hot sauce), his pitot come from one of the best pita bakeries in the city, his melahweh is great stuff, he's a lovely guy, the people who sit there are a nice crowd but not one of them won't say that the humous at Abu Hasan (Ali Karavan) and a dozen other places in Jaffa isn't better.

Condescending? I think not. At least here in Israel, with a few possible exceptions, a statement of realities.

Edited July 31, 2005 by Daniel Rogov (log)

[Behemoth]

Fair enough. Hopefully one day I'll get a chance to visit and test the theory in person

[chefzadi]

I really don't see why a non-Arab can't learn to make a decent plate of hummus. Sure the quality of the olive oil matters, but it's not like Arabs have cornered the market on good olive oil. Frankly the best hummus I ever had was made by a Japanese cook in a Greek restaurant (and for what it's worth I come from a long line of good Arab cooks...)

The burning question for me is whether or not a Phoenician can learn how to make a decent plate of hummus.

I'm sure an Algerian-Lebanese American can. The boy is all of 16!

[chefzadi]

Behemoth, Hi....

In a way, I have to agree with you. Given the right ingredients and the basic technique, it should indeed be possible for anyone to make fine humous. The proof of the puddng (or in this specific case, the humous) is in the eating and as much as I can enjoy the humous at the little joint on Ashtoria ha Parchi street near my home, it simply doesn't stand up to the test of fine humous. 

He makes great "harif" (hot sauce), his pitot come from one of the best pita bakeries in the city, his melahweh is great stuff, he's a lovely guy, the people who sit there are a nice crowd but not one of them won't say that the humous at Abu Hasan (Ali Karavan) and a dozen other places in Jaffa isn't better.

Condescending?  I think not. At least here in Israel, with a few possible exceptions, a statement of realities.

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I think the articles sited in this thread touch on some of the condescension that Behemoth mentions and there is a well thought out discussion about the points raised in those articles.

[Daniel Rogov]

I think the articles sited in this thread touch on some of the condescension that Behemoth mentions and there is a well thought out discussion about the points raised in those articles.

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Farid, Hi...

After reading the entire thread carefully, I see what you and Behemoth mean. It is amazing what ignorance and fear can breed!!!!

[marlena spieler]

..........although Tel Avivians will eat humous at many of their neighborhood humous joints but when they want really good humous they go to Jaffa or even as far as Ramle

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I've eaten foie gras in soutwest france, freshly dug truffles shaved over eggs, i've eaten at some of the world's finest restos (love l'arpege, one of these days will get to el bulli). have written scores of cookbooks (so do fair amount of cooking) and have eaten at the table of some of the worlds finest cookbook authors and chefs.

but when i think of one of the best meals of my life, it is this: a friend in tel aviv says: I'm taking you to my favourite place, and we trundle down to jaffa, and she says here is where jew and arab eat together, and its a crumbling shack of a place quite close to the sea, a crowded crumbling shack, and there are two big copper pots cooking: one for chickpeas and one for ful.

and we sit outside and eat the BEST HUMMUS, tender warm chickpeas that are so silky, so flavourful, so soft yet full of their own character, drizzled with tahina, and served with a bowl of spicy green sauce, a plate of raw onions, and a pile of the softest, freshest, most tender and fragrant pita. i think there was a lemon wedge too.

its been about 5 years since then and i've not been back to israel during this time.

however, i've been regularly soaking and cooking chickpeas in an effort to duplicate the exquisite hummus. to no avail. to no avail. i think its time for another trip to israel......did the copper pot make the difference, did the slightly smoky scent of the stove contribute?...........i spent much of the morning in the kitchen (if you can call it that, the little room with the stove) watching and asking questions of the owners/cooks, but when i get home it seems i have learnt nothing.......and even if got the chickpeas right there is still the pita to cope with (not being a baker, and not having access to such wonderful pita bread). luckily the green sauce is not a problem, i seem to feel in my very soul, how to make such sauces........ still its not the same eating hummus, freshly made wonderful hummus, alone, in the middle of hampshire england.

speaking of which, i also had a chickpea epiphany in napoli this past year--such a fantastic dish of artisanal chewy pasta cooked with a rough textured chickpea puree with tomatoes and olive oil, and have been on a similar quest for the prefect pasta with chickpeas as i ate it there. i bring back chickpeas from naples and everything. well one day i made it for brother in law for the rare occasion when family will eat at my house.

and when i served my masterpiece, the chickpeas and pasta, he just looked at it, and was so transparent in his feelings: you have a dinner party and feed us chickpeas? and pasta! chickpeas are cheap food! (not the way i do them, starting from bringing them back from italy, i can assure you). pasta is cheap food! it was a total excercise in non-appreciation and to tell you the truth, it disgusted me. (ps the pasta and chickpeas were divine).

what i wouldn't give for a hummus breakfast. and to be surrounded by a crowd, in the throes of equal appreciation!

Marlena

Edited August 1, 2005 by marlena spieler (log)

[Almass]

..........although Tel Avivians will eat humous at many of their neighborhood humous joints but when they want really good humous they go to Jaffa or even as far as Ramle

←

......but when i think of one of the best meals of my life, it is this: a friend in tel aviv says: I'm taking you to my favourite place, and we trundle down to jaffa, and she says here is where jew and arab eat together, and its a crumbling shack of a place quite close to the sea, a crowded crumbling shack, and there are two big copper pots cooking: one for chickpeas and one for ful.

and we sit outside and eat the BEST HUMMUS.......

what i wouldn't give for a hummus breakfast. and to be surrounded by a crowd, in the throes of equal appreciation!

Marlena

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Nice post Marlena. You should try Fatteh Shamiyeh or the correct name is Tess'ieh. Which is yoghurt/garlic/lamb/rice/bread...etc and chickpeas.

As for Hummus. A very simple technique which is by the way the same technique used in Egypt for Fuul, is SLOW COOKING method. Let it boil and simmer overnight on very low heat. I don't know whether the famous "Tabbakh Yahoudi" is still used but maybe Daniel Rogov can advise. I know that this is now banned as it was running on fuel or coal. Is there an electric version in use?

What tend to happen now is either using canned chickpeas or pressure cooker which does not make justice to the cooking.

Irrespective of the type of olive oil - lemon - tahina...etc used, it is the amalgamation of the ingredients which counts the most. And here again is the old adage which proves that the only right recipe is the right recipe.

Do you know that in Cairo where Falafel is king and where it all started, btw it is not called Falafel but Ta'amia, you should eat it in the street of Cairo from the small stalls and not in the more elaborate restaurants. There seems to be something, a palate mystique of some kind to eat Ta'amia cooked in oil that has been used one million times with barely washed ingredients. I would not eat (again) in the streets of Cairo and would not advise you to but should you wish to go to the core of Falafel, then thats the way to do it.

And uhhh, forget about good Hummos in Egypt.

[marlena spieler]

..........although Tel Avivians will eat humous at many of their neighborhood humous joints but when they want really good humous they go to Jaffa or even as far as Ramle

←

......but when i think of one of the best meals of my life, it is this: a friend in tel aviv says: I'm taking you to my favourite place, and we trundle down to jaffa, and she says here is where jew and arab eat together, and its a crumbling shack of a place quite close to the sea, a crowded crumbling shack, and there are two big copper pots cooking: one for chickpeas and one for ful.

and we sit outside and eat the BEST HUMMUS.......

what i wouldn't give for a hummus breakfast. and to be surrounded by a crowd, in the throes of equal appreciation!

Marlena

←

Nice post Marlena. You should try Fatteh Shamiyeh or the correct name is Tess'ieh. Which is yoghurt/garlic/lamb/rice/bread...etc and chickpeas.

As for Hummus. A very simple technique which is by the way the same technique used in Egypt for Fuul, is SLOW COOKING method. Let it boil and simmer overnight on very low heat. ...........

Do you know that in Cairo...... Falafel....is not called Falafel but Ta'amia, you should eat it in the street of Cairo from the small stalls........... There seems to be something, a palate mystique of some kind to eat Ta'amia cooked in oil that has been used one million times with barely washed ingredients.

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Ah, greetings Almass!

i am drooling at the thought of fatteh shamiyeh, i love the whole yogurt, garlic (yes, GARLIC MY FAVOURITE FOOD!), lamb, rice, bread.......I never think to make this myself, its always better if i eat it out in a lebanese or turkish resto in london (i'm out in the countryside).

it was indeed a long slow cooking, and it was some sort of fuel, not electric, hardly even a real stove. and omigod the chickpeas, the ful......so tender. so flavourful.

ah, felafel. once i wrote an article for saveur magazine on felafel, and it took me on a two week shlep through tel aviv and a few other places on the road to fried perfection, and sometimes i found it and sometimes i didn't, and of course i was lead also throughout the middle east though that wasn't really for my story, and a year or two later when i found myself in cairo for about a day, I thought: heres my chance to eat ta'amia, the broadbean (fava) felafel. i checked out the hygiene in a few places, in the bazaar, and then in a moment of insanity, thought: i'm gonna do it. I also got a ladle of ful, which i loved with onions, and egg, and tahina. i ate, and it was all deliicous, and i thought; maybe the germs are making it even more deliicous, and then i thought: its good that this is delicious because it'll probably be my last meal!

I ate up happily and then prepared to get sick and die.

happily i did not die. i'll never do it again though. (i always say that about tacos on the streets of mexico and my resolve lasts about an hour at most).

what is it about Middle Eastern food that is so utterlly wonderful, the tanginess of yogurt, the earthiness of chickpeas and beans, the tomatoey stews, the ever-present olive oil, the unmistakable whiff of cumin (either you love it or you hate it) and my beloved garlic.

all i have to do if listen to you mention fatteh, and i feel H A P P Y !!!

Marlena

[Behemoth]

what is it about Middle Eastern food that is so utterlly wonderful, the tanginess of yogurt, the earthiness of chickpeas and beans, the tomatoey stews, the ever-present olive oil, the unmistakable whiff of cumin (either you love it or you hate it) and my beloved garlic.

The frisson of associating with poverty?

Kidding. Just kidding.

[marlena spieler]

what is it about Middle Eastern food that is so utterlly wonderful, the tanginess of yogurt, the earthiness of chickpeas and beans, the tomatoey stews, the ever-present olive oil, the unmistakable whiff of cumin (either you love it or you hate it) and my beloved garlic.

The frisson of associating with poverty?

Kidding. Just kidding.

←

what a thing to say or even think, esp in response to my para above. sorry even kidding, i don't think its very funny. even not addressed at me i don't think its very funny.

Marlena

[chefzadi]

speaking of which, i also had a chickpea epiphany in napoli this past year--such a fantastic dish of artisanal chewy pasta cooked with a rough textured chickpea puree with tomatoes and olive oil, and have been on a similar quest for the prefect pasta with chickpeas as i ate it there. i bring back chickpeas from naples and everything. well one day i made it for brother in law for the rare occasion when family will eat at my house.

There's an Algerian pasta dish that's like that. Sometimes cumin is added as well. I wonder if the texture of the pasta is such because it was freshly made from semolina

flour?

however, i've been regularly soaking and cooking chickpeas in an effort to duplicate the exquisite hummus. to no avail. to no avail

You mentioned the slightly smoky scent of the stove. Was it wood fired? That makes a difference in the flavor.

Also olive oil, I suspect the Palestinians make it in small batches, in smaller stone mills like they do in rural Algeria. My relatives have olive trees on their farm and they cure their own olives and take olives to be mill in the village. There is no commercial equivilant. It's EXTRA EXTRA EXTRA virgin olive oil. Very thick and fruity.

[marlena spieler]

speaking of which, i also had a chickpea epiphany in napoli this past year--such a fantastic dish of artisanal chewy pasta cooked with a rough textured chickpea puree with tomatoes and olive oil

There's an Algerian pasta dish that's like that. Sometimes cumin is added as well. I wonder if the texture of the pasta is such because it was freshly made from semolina

flour?

Also olive oil, I suspect the Palestinians make it in small batches, in smaller stone mills like they do in rural Algeria. My relatives have olive trees on their farm and they cure their own olives and take olives to be mill in the village. There is no commercial equivilant. It's EXTRA EXTRA EXTRA virgin olive oil. Very thick and fruity.

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mmmmm, Algerian dish sounds yummy. Having already said it a million times in a million place, nonetheless I'll say it again: i LOVE cumin!

i think the pasta was dried, napoli being afficionados of the dried pasta and the pasta was at a napoli flavours celebration, but handmade, rough and yes, i think you are completely right: made with semolina. it had that proteiny, roughness to it, that holds up so well with the chickpeas.

olive oil: i use a big tin of olive oil from a friends olive trees, on the island of zakynthos. its just as you say: thick and fruity, and anything it touches it brings to life.

but the chickpeas, man, i think its a combination of where they are grown and what type of chickpea they are, as well as the slow cooking probably over wood fire. i recently read in a book--on indian cooking--about cooking chickpeas in tea, that it brings out the darker colour and a certain depth of flavour. will try.......

meanwhile, tell me more more more about this algerian dish of chickpeas and pasta, and tomatoes, and olive oil, cause i GOTTA TRY IT!

Marlena

[chefzadi]

meanwhile, tell me more more more about this algerian dish of chickpeas and pasta, and tomatoes, and olive oil, cause i GOTTA TRY IT!

I'll post a recipe for you later. In the meantime I will add that the fresh semolina pasta is sometimes dried too. I'm making it later this week, when my new digital camera arrives.

[Behemoth]

Marlena, I apologize. It is a sore subject for me. Not the politics so much as the sentimentalization of food. Professional habit, though I'm guilty of it myself enough times. If a kind moderator would remove offending post I would be most appreciative.