Blue Smoke

[weinoo]

We all know that restaurants need to move product in order to make money - that's the point of being in the business...however, I think that saying the chips are "200 x" better with the dip is not exactly tasteful upselling. That said, maybe that didn't get my goat as much as trying to convince us that sharing an order wasn't going to be enough food. I'd ordered 2 apps and 2 sides as well. In all my experience at Danny Meyer restaurants, including Blue Smoke, that had never taken place.

Fat Guy Posted on Jan 19 2003, 10:29 AM

After all, any offer of product -- beyond a food-only prix-fixe menu with no supplements -- constitutes upselling. An offer of espresso, wine, bottled water, or, in a non-prix-fixe restaurant, appetizers or desserts: upselling

In terms of debate, I think that the average diner goes to a restaurant perhaps expecting, if not wanting, to have a cocktail, glass of wine, dessert, etc. I have yet to see a restaurant that advertises that they sell only food, and only prix-fix food - if you want your wine, coffee, a side dish, bottled water or dessert, you gotta go elsewhere!

[Fat Guy]

the average diner goes to a restaurant perhaps expecting, if not wanting, to have a cocktail, glass of wine, dessert, etc.

The average customer also goes expecting to have an entree, but if two customers decide to split an entree it becomes upselling for the waiter to try to sell two entrees to two customers. The point is that if the customer doesn't ask for something and the waiter offers it -- no matter the nature or degree of the offer -- it's upselling (unless you want to get technical and start distinguishing between upselling, add-on sales, and other subcategories of salesmanship). There may be some examples of upselling that won't offend anybody (though I know people who are offended even by the offer of a cocktail, "Why are they always pushing cocktails? I don't drink cocktails! Greedy bastards! I hate when they try to sell you a cocktail before they give you the menu!"), and there are probably some examples that are by definition offensive ("All the cool kids are doing it.") -- call it 5% on each end. But the overwhelming majority -- the middle 90% of examples -- are going to seem harmless to some people but not to others. Body language, intonation, etc., make it hard to debate a given example as reported online, but I wouldn't likely be bothered by the dip upsell, especially since I think the chips are substantially better with the dip. The portion thing, well, that would likely have come across as pushy to me too.

[Fat Guy]

Okay, upselling thread:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=15602

[Damian]

weinoo,

We had the same server in the front section of Blue Smoke on Saturday it appears. We were seated about an hour after you in one of the tables by the window. (You're right, cold up there by the door!) Meal was very good, the St. Louis ribs and smoked chicken were very satisfying, sides were also good. Server was a big-time upseller. Everytime I'd ask questions about something she'd tell me we had to have it. Devilled eggs, I asked about them and said I was thinking about them but that we had already ordered plenty of food - my wife says she doesn't like 'em to the server. Server says "Oh they're small, it's only two eggs, you can definitely eat that, I eat them all the time and never have trouble finishing." No thanks. "Are you sure, they're very good and they're not that much, really." Not this time. Back off already!

Probably more poor technique (right out of Service That Sells) than anything else. Definitely did not feel like she was on our team, however.

[helenas]

Dave Douglas will be celebrating his 40th birthday at JazzStandard during the last week of March (Dave Douglas' Events) It seems that Uri Caine will make the appearance on some days.

[weinoo]

Server was a big-time upseller.  Everytime I'd ask questions about something she'd tell me we had to have it.  Devilled eggs, Server says "Oh they're small, it's only two eggs, you can definitely eat that, I eat them all the time and never have trouble finishing."  No thanks.  "Are you sure, they're very good and they're not that much, really." Probably more poor technique (right out of Service That Sells) than anything else. Definitely did not feel like she was on our team, however.

And this is the point I was trying to make - it really surprised me at a Danny Meyer restaurant.

[William Bitterman]

I really like what weinoo has to say-it's a good spot, but there's no need to kiss Danny Meyer's ass. Good BBQ in NYC is a godsend, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. Save th haranguing of diners for the tourists, please!

[Joy]

Had a very enjoyable dinner with Simon at Blue Smoke last night.

As ever, Simon was the best of company although I did feel embarrassed for him when he suggested ordering a salad as an app. We compromised and agreed on a different vegetable to start: potatoes in the fried form. The fries were nothing special but I did like them with the blue cheese and bacon dip.

The highlight was definitely the marbled brisket. Juicy, smokey, and just the right amount of fatty. Came with a side of mashed potatoes that had been pureed with lots of butter to instant mash consistency--which is perfect to my taste.

The Blue Smoke Ale produced by Brooklyn Brewery is indistinguishable from Brooklyn lager.

BTW: The storm was just kicking into high gear last night, and you could've easily walked into Blue Smoke without a reservation.

[Simon Majumdar]

As with any evening with Joy, Blue Smoke was great fun.

The service was haphazard but undeniably perky. The pre dinner drink of Billecarte NV very welcome and the food OK to middling. The pulled pork was very dry and I was not keen. The brisket was as the divine J describes and the app's entirley pointless.

Still worth a shot and probably another visit.

S

[Wilfrid]

I think you've both missed the fact that etiquette on eGullet is to be fantastically rude to people you like. Enough with the back rubbing.

[Simon Majumdar]

Bugger off you fat english wanker ( That do for you Wilf?)

S

Edited February 17, 2003 by Simon Majumdar (log)

[Joy]

I thought the eG etiquette was to be painfully polite to those you cant stand?

[Wilfrid]

Bugger off you fat english wanker   ( That do for you Wilf?)

S

Yes, that just hit the mark nicely, thanks.

[bourdain]

My one meal at Blue Smoke was absolutely the most wretched, pretentious, utterlly bogus experience--the whole barbeque experience dumbed down and tarted up at the same time. A noisy, ugly room, (fine if the food is good), presentations that couldn't decide if they wanted to be just ugly but virtuous (as at the very fine Arthur Bryants--and thousands f other 'real' bbq joints for instance) or prettied up for the city slicker rubes. The bbq mussels define the word "pointless": leathery, smoked rubber butt plugs. The "pulled" pork was like cat food, oversauced, chopped, seemingly 'pulled' from nowhere but a can of Fancy Feast. The brisket was shamefully, disgracefully dry, no "pink ring", no nothing, redolent of wolverine jerky. Instead of just slopping some really good bbq on your plate with a few proud slices of free white bread, no rocket science here, they seem to prod you into a Disneyfied version of pan-Southern, an atrocious rebuke to America's inargably home-grown regional cuisine.

[Joy]

So in eG etiquette does this mean he loved Blue Smoke?

[Ron Johnson]

Close. It means he loved hating it.

Of course, I also loved reading his take on the place. Cat food . . . priceless.

[bourdain]

My one diner at Blue Smoke was absolutely the most wretched, pretentious, utterlly bogus restaurant meal- of the year-the whole barbeque experience dumbed down and tarted up at the same time. A noisy, ugly room, (fine if the food is good),the ambiance of a yuppie roller arena, presentations that couldn't decide if they wanted to be just ugly but virtuous (as at the very fine Arthur Bryants--and thousands of other 'real' bbq joints for instance) or prettied up for the city slicker rubes. The bbq mussels define the word "pointless": leathery, smoked rubber butt plugs. The "pulled" pork was like cat food, oversauced, chopped, seemingly 'pulled' from nowhere but a can of Fancy Feast. The brisket was shamefully, disgracefully dry, no "pink ring", no nothing, redolent only of wolverine jerky. Instead of just slopping some really good bbq on your plate with a few proud slices of free white bread, no rocket science here, they seem to prod you into a Disneyfied version of pan-Southern, (corn bread) an atrocious rebuke to America's inargably home-grown regional cuisine. On a recent exploration of KC, Texas and NC bbq, I cosntantly inquired of various demigods of the BBQ circuit if they'd eaten at Blue Smoke--and what did they think? Many had been honored guests in the early days of the restaurant--and all held the consultant advisor chef in high regard. But not one thought Blue Smoke got it right--or anywhere close. Danny Meyer inarguably runs some of the best restaurants in town. But I think this place is cruising on residual goodwill.

And with the world's largest filter cigarette pumping (granted heavily scrubbed) wood smoke into the neighborhood, I still can't --in these last moments of civilization--smoke at the fucking bar.

[Jaymes]

My one diner at Blue Smoke was absolutely the most wretched, pretentious, utterlly bogus restaurant meal- of the year-the whole barbeque experience dumbed down and tarted up at the same time.

...I still can't --in these last moments of civilization--smoke at the fucking bar.

They have a fucking bar? Wow, how terribly advanced.

Down here in Texas we have to do that in the restrooms.

[Pan]

LOL!

Edited February 18, 2003 by Pan (log)

[chopjwu12]

My two friends who have eaten there have to different opinions. One went to the special invite only party and said it was really good. The other went on a normal day and said the bbq was ok not the best but the atmosphere was retarted. He said you dont go to a BBQ joint to pull apart ribs and suck on them while sitting next to a very well dressed lady with pearls trying to eat BBQ. So two very different opinions.

[Joy]

The other went on a normal day and said the bbq was ok not the best but the atmosphere was retarted. He said you dont go to a BBQ joint to pull apart ribs and suck on them while sitting next to a very well dressed lady with pearls trying to eat BBQ. So two very different opinions.

I'm the first person to decry a yuppified setting and I just wasn't offended by Blue Smoke's dining room. If however, they went the hokey sawdust on floor/street signs, etc atmosphere like at Brother Jimmy's I think that would've pissed me off.

[LESider]

The one thing that bummed me out was they were playing Hall and Oates on the jukebox.

the bbq needs lots of work, but their burgers are great!!!

what's next a Pizzaria where the pizza sucks, but the gelato is awesome ??

[Joy]

The one thing that bummed me out was they were playing Hall and Oates on the jukebox.

Oh yeah, can't believe I forgot that. I usually don't notice the music on the jukebox but I did the other night and I really liked most of what they were playing. I couldn't tell you know what that was but both Simon and I did remark on it. Caveat: I'm usually not a cheesy music person but I do have Hall and Oates in the CD player at home right now.

Burgers. Huh.

[Suzanne F]

Joy -- is that Huh as in or Huh as in or Huh as in ?

Yeah, burgers. Very safe there, no disappointments whatsoever. Although not what I really want to always have to order at a place that serves BBQ.

[Joy]

There is no emoticon to describe my "huh."

It was a "who knew?" huh.