Edinburgh Recommendations

[Suzi Edwards]

given my meal there was 12 months ago i now feel i can come out and admit that i left oloroso without paying. it wasn't for want of trying, but after asking for the bill three times only to have them not come and take the card after 25 minutes i got the feeling they weren't actually bothered about us paying. so we left.

[spanky]

Let me make a quick but heartfelt plug for the original Marque Restaurant in Causewayside. Intimate (where Marque Central is a bit barn-like for my liking), with great food, excellent service and--I believe--a BYOB policy on Sundays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

I just remembered I made this recommendation. Please ignore it--the place has since shut up shop, which is a shame.

Howard, great post on those three restaurants! Oloroso is usually fine for a cocktail or two, but not somewhere I'd go for dinner. As you detected, it has an inflated sense of its own importance with prices to match. (£150 for a bottle of Tignanello--japers!!!)

I should also note in passing that I went to the "hot" new Italian place, Centotre, on George St. Impressions: hectic, packed, barn-like space (ex-bank) where you can't hear what your partner/friend/elsewho is saying even though they're sitting only a few feet away from you; terribly erratic service (for example, left waiting for our table while couples who came in after us were guided to theirs, brought the wrong orders, some very nice staff, some very unresponsive staff etc etc); strange lapses in detail (food-stained menus, for God's sake!) BUT very good food (my partner claimed that the mozzarrella was the best she'd ever tasted and I had a very toothsome veal milanese--I think (it's been a month or more now) and very interesting wine list. All the wines are from Italy and all are available by the glass. However, I would imagine that it's hell on earth to eat there at the moment.

Tarka, sorry to hear you couldn't make it. If it's any consolation, the weather's unconscionably pish up here.

Cheers all

Spanks

[Andy Lynes]

Let me make a quick but heartfelt plug for the original Marque Restaurant in Causewayside. Intimate (where Marque Central is a bit barn-like for my liking), with great food, excellent service and--I believe--a BYOB policy on Sundays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

I just remembered I made this recommendation. Please ignore it--the place has since shut up shop, which is a shame.

Is Marque Central still open? I've just writen a review of them for a magazine so I hope they are! (Just tried ringing them and no answer, I'll try again nearer dinner time if no one responds before then).

[howardlong]

food-stained menus, for God's sake!

I got one of these at Oloroso. I think I might have nicked it too, so I'll scan it in and publish the URL if my scanner still works with ketchup installed.

I forgot to mention V&C. The Edinburgh office I set up seven years ago is just up the road from Valvona & Crolla. It's been three years since I've needed to spend any serious time up there, but luckily my wine drinking taste buds are now much more adventurous and appreciative of bracnhing out away from France.

Don't go to V&C for French wine, or you will be seriously disappointed. Live life and check out their awesome Italian collection. A great spread from Sicily to Tuscany. For example, for Sicily just check out their Planeta selection.

V&C also have substantially improved their lunch sarny collection from what it was. Perhaps I don't know where to go, but there just are not the same kind of independent sandwich takeaways there are like we have darn sarf.

Cheers, Howard

[howardlong]

given my meal there was 12 months ago i now feel i can come out and admit that i left oloroso without paying. it wasn't for want of trying, but after asking for the bill three times only to have them not come and take the card after 25 minutes i got the feeling they weren't actually bothered about us paying. so we left.

Re-reading my post, it appears that I was being charitable about the service in Oloroso. It was possibly the worse place I'd been to since the Pizza Hut in Greenside Place when I was staying at the Glasshouse there a few weeks ago. No, I lied, it was worse. I'm sure at Pizza Hut they weren't that far up themselves.

Hmmm. The Glasshouse. Another place to avoid. Nice enough place, with an enormous wonderful grassed area on the top floor that your room opens out onto, but they try too hard to be trendy. Nowhere to eat other than for breakfast and room service. There's an 'honesty bar' where you write down what you nick from the minimally stocked bar.

I am not a convert to 'boutique' hotels. Like the Glasshouse, the Malmaison in Leith similarly had this snooty "We're cool, what the hell are you doing here?" feel to it. And the bathroom was so minimal it felt like being in a B&B. Still, at least it's close to Martin Wishart and they do have a brasserie that I wouldn't have minded trying.

The Scotsman also is trying too hard. It's trying to place itself both as a traditional hotel and as a boutique hotel. But it doesn't make it IMHO. The gym is way too busy for a physical exercise retard like me. Their "publisher suites" are nothing more than a room with two comfy chairs and think they can charge twice as much. Oh, but apparently they do have the largest shower heads in Edinburgh. Shame, I'm a bath man myself. Their Molton Brown products are unceremoniously bolted to the wall, so no freebies. Their fine dining restaurant doesn't open Mondays or Tuesdays, so I've not managed to try it yet.

Since the Balmoral has been refurbed this year, I'm a proud born again Balmoralite. The gym is nice and empty plus they have a Michelin starred restaurant in crawling distance. And even the cheapy rooms have a nice big bath. With some nice freebie products to nick. Nice bathrobes too.

But this is a foodie channel, right?

Cheers, Howard

[Gary Marshall]

i use the bonham,

http://www.thebonham.com/

a very nice boutique place, friendly staff and good rooms.

i've only held big lunch/dinner functions there and they've coped admirably but the ALC menu reads well.

lacking in pretention which is nice too, and as you say often quite rare in the boutiques. They own a few other places in edinburgh but they're a bit more traditional chintzy, the howard & the channings are theirs.

gary

[Andy Lynes]

But this is a foodie channel, right?

Restaurants, Cuisine and Travel - so you're bang on topic. The more UK related travel stuff the better in fact.

[howardlong]

the howard

Tried there, reasonably priced, definitely not the 5* they advertise, nicely quirky, OK food, rooms are past their best. A bit of a trek to my office - in the no-man's land of being too close for justifying a taxi, but too far for a comfy walk.

I remember the panecotta being very nice. You're absolutely right about it being part of a small chain - the wine menu is held centrally, so the waiter had to walk round to a sister hotel to get it.

This is not meant to be derogatory at all, rather to indicate its quaintness, but dare I say it - it was like Fawlty towers without Basil.

Cheers, Howard

[Gary Marshall]

don't get me wrong the bonham is a very different hotel to the howard!

gary

[Adam Balic]

Yes the Haar has been a right bastard of late (nice weekend weather though, so mustn't grumble).

Oloroso - what everybody else has said, but when the weather is not utter shit, it is a good place to go up to the balcony area and have a drink and talk about the Castle etc.

[Suzi Edwards]

agree completely, you go there for the view. which is incredible.

[spanky]

Andy, re: Marque Central. It's definitely still open.

And it's definitely still raining. I'm off for a drink.

Spanks

[PS]

The for let sign at the Marque in Causewayside gives the reason for the lease being available as "due to relocation", so perhaps the Marque is setting up shop somewhere else. Unless they're just reducing the chain to the Marque Central?

As a footnote on Centotre - it's owned by one of the Contini brothers (Philip, I think) of Valvona & Crolla fame. He's left V&C amicably to set up his own operation, so with that sort of pedigree you'd expect the ingredients to be high-quality, as they are based on my one visit. It does get mobbed, though.

V&C are also setting up an off-shoot cafe in Multrees Walk, next to Harvey Nichols. Due to open in "the Autumn", so it looks like they've missed the Festival boat.

[Andy Lynes]

Andy, re: Marque Central. It's definitely still open.

Excellent news (for them and me). Thanks for letting me know.

[Ian]

What a great discussion. I'm off to Edinburgh in a couple of weeks. I'm intending to visit a few Chinese places, the Atrium and V&C. Any thoughts on where I could go to sample some really good Scots food?

All the best,

--

Ian Fenn

http://www.chopstix.com/

[spanky]

Hi folks--

Just checking in again with some news on Ra Burra scene. The original Marque restaurant (see above) has become something called Hewat's Restaurant. I had a look at its menu a week or so ago and can't remember a thing about it. From a nosy at its rather staid looking innards, I wasn't too jazzed, but I suppose you can't judge on appearances (the Atrium hasn't changed its decor since it opened!)

A Jamaican restaurant called Coyaba has opened in Buccleuch Street on the site of many a failed restaurant. Haven't been yet but Joanna Blythman in the Sunday Herald gives it a great write-up.

She also gives a great review to 1 Alva Street which has opened on the site of the old Bouzy Rouge. Again, I haven't been, so can't vouch for this.

Valvona and Crolla's much heralded vin caffe in Multrees Walk near Harvey Nicks still hasn't opened (c'mon already!)

As for me, I've been saving my hard-earned for my wedding, which is a week on Saturday at the Atrium then Blue Bar Restaurant for jazz and soul/funk. My best wishes to all at egullet.

See you now

Spanks

[Suzi Edwards]

VPL gets his chops round Number One in this week's Saturday Gruniad

[howardlong]

VPL gets his chops round Number One in this week's Saturday Gruniad

←

I feel compelled (again) to respond here. Have I been missing something or has VLS now a self-professed food critic? (At this point I freely admit that I've only seen this guy write in the Evening Standard and Private Eye - and where did those dreadlocks come from - at his age!!!)

I have to totally agree with his American sentiment - I was in there last week on Tuesday and an American couple in their late sixties made complete fools of themsleves using their classical 20dB over the noise. When I bump into any of you I will relay the story, but it was both tortuous and comical at the same time - like watching a Fawlty Towers but worse...

Err... you walk into a restaurant like that and order a salad? Get a life. It became much worse, believe me.

Grouse really was truly orgasmic though ;-) plus they had a pot pourri starter including frogs' legs that was awesome, though tough to choose a wine for, but lady sommelier is great fun and makes you try stuff you wouldn't otherwise - thanks!

I feel that your average English restaurant goer should be forewarwned about the cheese trolley. Excellent though it is, the accent is most certainly on catching you out. Lots of Scottish cheeses plus lots of ecelctic French fromage, but for God's sake don't even think you'll recognise many of them!

For location, food and service at Number One is #1. For food and service Martin Wischart is on an even keel, but location is a bit out of the way. MW's is also a different dining experience. My recommendation - try both!

Cheers, Howard

[spanky]

Just discovered that Rogue, a restaurant I've always had a great time in, has closed its doors after a long and hard battle to stay afloat.

RIP

PS Only just discovered the lead-up story here. Have to say it was in a pretty crap location, as part of the Scottish Widows monstrosity, but all the same it's only five minutes' walk from the Atrium, which is housed in an equally unprepossessing building and has kept going for over a decade now.

[Adam Balic]

I didn't have an issue with the location, but possibly in Edinburgh this will be an issue, after all the appearance of the city is one of its major selling points? Certainly crap food in a good location, seems to sell better then better food in a worse location in Edinburgh.

I went only once, about a month after it had opened. I though that the food was fine, but the service needed a lot of work. Our half full glasses of white wine kept being taken away (they looked empty in the lighting) and large amounts of 'extras' (potatoes, salads etc) kept appearing on the table without us asking for them.

[culinary bear]

I worked at the Balmoral under Jeff Bland in '98 and '99. The gentleman responsible for the bread is Peter Hyde, the pastry sous. 6'9" of dry wit and motorcycle leathers, who had a great touch with bread. He possessed the largest pair of clogs I have ever seen outside of Amesterdam.

Incidentally the best pastry chef I have ever seen worked there at the same time as myself, a young German chef de partie by the name of Marcus Huber - brilliantly talented, and I wish I could find out where he is now.

[tony h]

Martin Wishart – Dec 04

Pre-starters

- small cup of delicious potato & leek soup – stunning depth & length

- spoon with puree of pea & small fish croquette (cod?) – lots of lemon in the peas – v good

- small ball of haggis – good texture, very peppery

- small cone filled with chicken liver pate – smoothest, silkiest pate I think I’ve ever had

Starters

Mousse of lobster tortellini; pigs trotter with a brioche crumb encasing; lobster broth. The lobster broth was exquisite in every way – it was heavily whipped so that it was light and fluffy but there was a seriously good reduction base to this. The pigs trotter – braise for hours, skin removed then wrapped like a long swiss roll & sliced – the problem was that the diameter & thickness was a bit on the mean side – otherwise it was very enjoyable. This rested on a bed of very lemony wilted spinach. The tortellini – little cusp of pasta with very smooth mousse inside – covered with a more pasta. There were two of these, paced on either side of the trotter. Visually quite pleasing – but the mousse just didn’t have any flavour and was lost in the riot that was the lobster broth. Also, the texture was somewhat lacking.

Mains

Roast veal on a bed of wild mushrooms; potato gallette and a white raisin sauce. The veal was great – seasoning perfect. However, the potatoes fought against the sweet note of the white raisin sauce – in fact – the sweetness detracted from the meal as a whole. This reminded me of the use of white raisins at the Champingnon Sauvage last month – there they were balanced perfectly with the meat – here the stock used to cook the potatoes was at odds with the stock. Shame – the dish was very good but overpowered by that one taste conflict.

Dessert

Chocolate sugar disk – on one side a hemisphere of dark chocolate mouse; the other a hemisphere of white chocolate mouse. The white side had a small ball removed with the indent filled with coffee granite. Two long strands of chocolate were laid against the side of the complex making a V shape and sweet mint foam was spooned down the V. Very pretty and sculptural. Damned if I could detected any real chocolaty taste from the mousse.

Overall – not bad – a place to investigate further despite the odd bum note.

Number One – December 04

A lovely room but it failed the international we could be anywhere test. Also you’re in one of the most beautiful cities in the world; the castle lights up at night and appears to float effortlessly and pleasingly in the sky. The hotel couldn’t be better situated & what do they do – put the restaurant in the basement. A missed opportunity.

Anyway, starters – a cup of haricot cappuccino with truffle oil. Very good but lacked the depth Whishart’s achieved the previous day.

Starter – boudin of game with loin of venison and roast foie gras. The FG sat on a small cylinder of delicious onion compote – the FG itself was quite small but perfectly roasted; no evidence of any oil slick. The two together was a wonderful combination. The boudin was tasty and gamey and just what you’d want from a game back pudding. The loin of venison should have been squab but they ran out the day before. The sauce – well – this is where the problems started. Perhaps the curse of Sunday night eating – anyway – the game sauce was over salted and any aroma of maderia had long since vanished. I suspect this was perfect on the Saturday night – but a little more reduction work have left it lifeless and salty. The based was superbly gelatinous – but it masked the rest of the meal. Shame.

Mains – assiette of pork with morel and pea risotto. Belly of pork – this was lovingly and slowly cooked with all of the fat rendered away – cut into a square and placed on a bed of red cabbage; unfortunately I suspect the loving took place the day before & I got a dry & tasteless cube of white meat on cabbage jam. There was more boudin (made from the brawn?) in this dish. It came with a powerfully sweet apple compote which I just didn’t like. Lastly, loin of pork on a bed of risotto – I have a soft spot for risotto and have always believed that even when its bad, its still good. Proved wring again – the super concentrated parmesan blew away any notion of any other ingredient getting a look in. No taste of morel or pea – even dominated the accompanying meats & others sauces. One last disappointing thing to note – presentation. The belly & boudin was placed on the plate like two eyes & the loin sliced and arranged like a big mouth. It was like being 4 again (but without the irony). I also have to say - there was too much similarity between the starter & main which I put down to poor descriptions on the menu.

Pre-dessert – lemon custard with plumb was simply perfect and refreshing

Dessert – lemongrass brulee. The small brulee was accompanied on one side with coconut ice cream and poached citrus fruits in five-spice liquor on the other. The fruits were great. The ice cream tasted nice expect for the small ball of curdled (refrozen?) ice cream. Kind of put me off. The brulee – well – that was something entirely different. I’ve been trying to figure out how they made it. If doing it at home this is how I would do it: make the custard for the brulee had with a flour base or allow the custard to scramble and then blitz it in the food processor & sieve. Trust me, I didn’t put more than one spoon of that curious concoction in my mouth. Almost beats the artichoke brulee at Grand Vefour, but not quite.

Wonderfully pleasant & friendly staff but can’t say I’ll be rushing back.

Olorosso – Dec 04

Can’t face writing this up – its was so monumentally awful. If I was preparing roast artichokes they way they had, this is how I would do it: take brined artichoke out of jar; slow dry in oven; pan fry sides so they look roasted. Just a guess, of course, but that’s how I’d do it if I was trying to emulate them.

[culinary bear]

I have a sneaky suspicion Martin's going for a second star.

The wise old sage of Tollcross, a.k.a. Davy from Pro-Chef Catering Supplies, said they're really expanding the front-of-house staff as well as hiring two more hands in the kitchen.

Sadly, I've only eaten there the once, a year ago; the food was by and large spot-on. Nothing terribly cutting-edge, no nods to the molecular approach, but what was there was technically superb, including the finest gazpacho I have ever had (not to mention the bonbon of confit quail). The only gripe I had was with the dessert (we had the degustation menu) which seemed to let the overall standard down with a clumsy citrus brulee.

What's the considered opionion? Does MW merit two stars, or is he close to the threshold?

[Suzi Edwards]

It;s been a while since I ate there and I thought that it was a solid one star then. This thread has made me realise that I don't really know what the differences would be between 1-2 and 2-3 so I'm going to start a thread here

[curlywurlyfi]

The new issue of Delicious has an article by Tony Singh of Oloroso on eating in Edinburgh. Covers restaurants and food shops. Can post to anyone who is sufficiently interested.

Restaurants are Oloroso (obviously); Annapurna (run by TS's brother); The Apartment; Le Cafe St Honore; Chiang Mai; Duddingston Fry; Kweilin; Marmaris Kebab House; number one; The Outsider; Petit Paris; Rhubarb; and Vittoria

Shops are: Caledonian Fish; Campbells Prime Meat; I J Mellis Cheesemonger; Pat's Chung Ying; and Polypack.