Pastry books home and pro

[akwa]

Interested in generating pastry books or digital books

What topics are insufficiently covered?

Restaurant organization?

Creative process?

Hygiene?

Ice cream?

Technique?

Home application of professional technique?

Would appreciate guidance in this question.

Looking to service a real need not my imagination.

[melofunk]

What about a book for home or pro which focuses on flavor/texture pairings? Maybe this would be part of the creative process. Culinary Artistry and In the Sweet Kitchen both have flavor pairing charts. Culinary Artistry focuses on both savory and sweet, and Daley's book contains traditional flavor pairings (Claudia Fleming's book is good for pairings too). What about new pairings? The new savory in the sweet kitchen... I also like to look at Balaguer's book for this kind of inspiration and wish there were more....roasted apples, yogurt mousse, saffron ice cream - those kinds of fun combinations.

[sheetz]

I don't know if there is large demand, but there certainly aren't enough books dealing with Chinese pastries, which are largely unknown in the West. Not only things like char siu bao, but things like wife cakes, moon cakes, and curry beef pastries. Right now we in the Chinese Cooking forum are having a helluva time trying to develop a good restaurant quality custard tart because there just aren't any good recipes.

[akwa]

  melofunk said:

What about a book for home or pro which focuses on flavor/texture pairings?  Maybe this would be part of the creative process.  Culinary Artistry and In the Sweet Kitchen both have flavor pairing charts.  Culinary Artistry focuses on both savory and sweet, and Daley's book contains traditional flavor pairings (Claudia Fleming's book is good for pairings too).  What about new pairings?  The new savory in the sweet kitchen... I also like to look at Balaguer's book for this kind of inspiration and wish there were more....roasted apples, yogurt mousse, saffron ice cream - those kinds of fun combinations.

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i think this is a great suggestion

it would be possible to chart ingredients versus techniques

thereby demonstrating a table of flavor and texture

in what form would the elaboration be most helpful

re chinese pastries, i am fairly ignorant myself

[akwa]

how about along the lines of

the disappearing border between savory and sweet

new techniques to match flavor in the modern kitchen

[Wendy DeBord]

I can never own enough books. If I were to choose a topic I'd love to see covered which isn't clearly and in one place, would be tips and techniques for professionals on:

production, in all applications including how you handle product in your coolers.

shortcuts for production.

all the tips that have run in the back of P, A & D all in one place. given by chefs for chefs.

mass plating ideas.

buffet concepts, putting out a nice buffet with nothing.........no nice trays, just using items commonly found in the kitchen.

I feel like there are tons of books geared toward home bakers, then there are many books covering very advanced pastry.........but not alot in between. Pretend your mentoring me, tell me all your best advice and tricks. Even the most seasoned pro is always looking for new tips and time savers.

[Wendy DeBord]

Personally, I think there aren't enough restaurants where chefs can blur the lines between sweet and savory................so it's a VERY narrow audience you'd be appealing to. I don't see home cooks embrasing this outside of 'Foodie' circles.

I think the Dubies (from Canada) and even Charlie Trotters dessert book already covered this ground............

[Michael Laiskonis]

Interesting idea, Will. I think this is something a lot of us ponder, and I think pastry books in particular do suffer from a sense of similarity- very few stand out in terms of their general approach or subject matter.

One thing that has interested me in recent years is the dessert tradition of other cultures, from Asia to South America, and beyond. Not simply a dry anthropological case study, well some of that, but also someone's personal journey in discovering them, connecting them, and ultimately seeking out the ingredients and tools and preparing them, while also placing them in context of where we are today.

I also like the idea of, say, Gray Kunz's book, applied to pastry. One where the building blocks of flavor and texture, coupled with dicussion of ingredients and techniques, form a sort of creative process and understanding of how a dish is constructed.

I don't really know anymore what might give crossover appeal to a general audience!

I just spent an amazing couple of weeks immersed in many different aspects of pastry and culture, on two continents, with the added bonus of rubbing shoulders with many luminaries in the field. It led me to want some grand opus, combining the forward thinking of Oriol Balaguer, the cultural context someone like Bill Yosses captures, the scientific context from Harold McGee, the technical foundations of Perruchon and Bellouet, the cool generosity and spirit of Stan Ho, maybe the sweet, grounding narration of Dorie Greenspan, all sprinkled with a pinch of the humor and irreverance that results when you throw a bunch of pastry chefs into room and lock the door. If that book were on the shelf, I could probably do away with of all the others. (And yes, I did have the pleasure of hanging with said folks, and yes, you all should be jealous!)

And then there is the aspect of collaboration- pastry chefs teamed up with those in other disciplines, like design, fashion, architecture, etc. Or simply a study of both the individual and collaborative creative process between two or several pastry chefs. I find the simple evolution of an idea interesting, but the results of two minds together could be downright illuminating.

But then, a simple manifesto would satisfy certain needs, too.

Edited April 22, 2005 by Michael Laiskonis (log)

[melofunk]

  Quote

I also like the idea of, say, Gray Kunz's book, applied to pastry. One where the building blocks of flavor and texture, coupled with dicussion of ingredients and techniques, form a sort of creative process and understanding of how a dish is constructed.

This would definitely be of interest to me. A reference manual of sorts.

As Michael mentioned a book that combines the various aspects that Balaguer, McGee, and Greenspan bring to their work/writings would be divine.

[akwa]

dear michael

if that an invitation for collaboration

i do

regarding synthesis work, yes, this would be ideal

what's the market,

how many people own even the base reference books you mention

or am i underestimating the sophistication of the average reader

on same note, in what way is synthesis palatable

how do you make broad sweeping conclusions non threatening

cheers

[twodogs]

An honest expression of an individual; from thought process through execution. If you are into mass production be about mass production; do not adopt to a home baker.

Similarly, if you are about ingredients and techniques show that. Publishers push writers in directions to in theory sell books, and we buy books in theory to learn something and gain inspiration, techniques and other paths to take. Yet upon buying many books readers are left empty because the book is about what is thought people want rather than the actual cooking.

Enough with cooking for dummies and pulling sugar to burn calories. Forget boiling water to make steam and baking for beginners.

Present a straight up representation of exquisite cuisine and you may come close to a book. For now I will continue to search and buy books like CD's for one or two great songs. Think about it what if there were a means for individuals to compile and print single dishes with techniques and photographs from millions of cookbooks.

Culinary itunes; that is what I want.

[nightscotsman]

These days I'm mostly interested in narrow-focus niche books rather than ones that try to cover every type of pastry possible (which is usually impossible to do really well). There are mainly three reasons I will consider purchasing:

Technical reference books, such as Jean-Pierre Wybauw Fine Chocolates book. These may have great and useful recipes, but the technical information is either unavailable published elsewhere or is in a more useful form than other sources.

Modern, updated recipes and techniques that are well tested and versatile. I'm not necessarily looking for cutting edge experimental stuff here, but more base recipes that I can build my own stuff on.

Pure inspiration. These are the wildly creative books, such as Oriol Balaguer and Albert Adria, that may or may not be practically useful to me now or in the near future, but that help push my thinking into new areas, especially with flavors and presentation ideas. Again, I don't expect to use a lot of recipes directly from this type of book, but they should certainly have lots of photos.

Beyond these categories there are also a few authors/chefs, such as Dorie Greenspan and Pierre Herme, that I will buy new books from sight-unseen.

[akwa]

i feel that there have been many great contributions to this dialogue already

i am interested in a grand synthesis with some soul

not shell of ideas to sell

perhaps nightscotsman has found useful division

technical

practical

fantasy

as well i envisioned one book with first part basic restaurant pastry broken down by two dozen or so techniques with elaborations

followed by two dozen fantasy sequences with little text and grand photos

regarding more practical

i think that greatest hits would be a great book, i just wouldnt want to end up like modern plated desserts etc.

perhaps two dozen contributors tops? more narrow or more broad?

[tan319]

What a great topic, sorry I came to it so late.

I've been thinking about a book like some of akwas and others ideas suggest for awhile now. If for no other reason then to satisfy some of my own thirst for knowledge and curiosity.

It's hard to figure out if there's a market that very large for this kind of tome but, one has to wonder how well Grey Kunz' book did compared to something like The French Laundry book, let alone the Emerils and such.

Does it matter?

Figure that most cookbooks may not even recoup their cost and advance.

As far as the market for the more expensive books go, I wonder how many of the folks over in the 'Hermes Chocolate Desserts' book thread have forked over the bucks for the Hermes pro book?

At least a few have, and more then likely they've discovered that some ingredients aside, the recipes aren't that much different. The cost is the major factor there.

I've been attracted to some of these compilation books like 'S-21' ( which I own) and "Cocina Dulce" which I don't own, yet.

Another book that is not purely pastry oriented whose layout I really admire is the "Hot Chef's, Hip Cuisine" book, another compilation, which has a bit of a bio then two or three recipes from chefs from all over the world .

Re: Crossover beween savory and sweet:

The above mentioned book, which can be had for pretty cheaply at Amazon.com, would be a really good purchase for the savory cook just getting into the use of more pastry oriented ingredients.

My recent experiences in FL. made obvious to me the hurdles some cooks may encounter

with the simplest ingredients, such as sheet gelatine, let alone sodium alginate.

Even the concept of scaling out ingredients was a somewhat alien experience for some.

There maybe an idea for a book there.

"When Savory Meets Sweet:A Pastry Ingredient Primer For The Savory Cook"

[melmck]

large volume recipes would also be good to have...

[akwa]

good suggestion tan re compilation

but the key would be the editing in my opinion

to present a real philosophy that contributors would well, contribute to

in that way, i think that both a singular and unified approach would be useful

ps chef talbot, you and your partner prepared a great meal for me in maine three summers ago at the bradley inn

[simdelish]

  twodogs said:

For now  I will continue to search and buy books like CD's for one or two great songs.  Think about it what if there were a means for individuals to compile and print single dishes with techniques and photographs from millions of cookbooks. 

Culinary itunes; that is what I want.

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Precisely.

Exactly.

THAT is what I want!

[akwa]

with regards to simdelish endorsement of talbot itunes concept

would you prefer an editing and classification of work to start your selection process or would a great wide open information base be accessible.

i imagine an editor of a compilation serving an invaluable weeding out process, particularly in our time of information chaos.

[tan319]

I completely forgot in post to say how much I would dig the culinary I-tunes concept myself, as long as I got the pictures and such.

Great idea.

akwa does have a point though, there's an awful lot of stuff out there.

  simdelish said:

  twodogs said:

For now  I will continue to search and buy books like CD's for one or two great songs.  Think about it what if there were a means for individuals to compile and print single dishes with techniques and photographs from millions of cookbooks. 

Culinary itunes; that is what I want.

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Precisely.

Exactly.

THAT is what I want!

←

[jackal10]

I think the suggestion of a culinary iTunes has great merit.

You could make deals with cookbook publishers to allow you to digitise the recipes, that users could download for a small fee (or an annual subscription),

Add an index and some editorial choices, and the usual user rating system and collaborative filtering (users who liked this recipe also liked..), and some linking back to basic recipes......

Oh Masters, what about an eG iRecipe?