Dine Out Vancouver

[Ling]

Two more meals to go, then I'm going on a diet!

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You can't. We have Burger Club next.

[Vancouver Lee]

Two more meals to go, then I'm going on a diet!

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You can't. We have Burger Club next.

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<groan> Oh, well, I needed to buy new (wider) pants anyway.

[plunk]

For those of you in the industry, do the restaurants try and book as many people in as possible to partially offset the no shows? That was the big DOV negative for me this year.

As a diner, I have no problem with a credit card deposit and being done in 2 hours if it means that four people don't have to sit around a table normally meant for two.

I also like the idea of extending it for a longer period, it would feel less like marathon eating that way :)

[nwyles]

A quick note regarding a reservation situation on the last night of Dine Out.

8 people at 8:00 , I have 2 spots that I can put them. An 8 walks in. I hesitate, reconfirm they are not my reso, take a chance and seat them in the nicer of the two tables. ( this pays off as they spend lots o dough ! )

8:29 - I have just flipped 9 two tops but I have two tables of four waiting with reservations. everyone is camping, no four tops on the horizon. I pull apart the 8 and seat the two fours. I turn around and there is one chap at the door.

I have a reservation for 8 !

I just gave your table away, you are 30 minutes late.

He is not sure what to say so he squeaks out " but I have a reservation"

I smile. This is the last day of Dine Out. Enough !

Let's wait and see what comes up. Where are the other people in your group ?

They are on their way.

I have a 6 top booth coming up but it will be a little tight. Not much else is movng.

30 minutes later, 5 more people come in for a total of 6. The six top is up but I have not cleared or set it yet, and strangely, I feel no need to hurry. I slide up to the door to welcome our newcomers. They are all talking on cell phones ! I wonder if to each other ?

I tell the newcomers the situation and say I will have a table in a few minutes.

One young lady steps up firmly to tell me SHE HAS A RESERVATION !

I smile. ( This is the last day of Dine Out ! ) Yes, I said , but that was for 8:00. Your friend did not arrive until 8:30. It is now 9:00 and unfortuatly nobody had a cellphone so they could call me and say you were going to be late. I would have held the table but instead, I gave it to some people who were here. Let me see what I can do. Give me a few minutes. Again, I feel gravity tugging at me and I find I am unable to move quickly. Oh well.

I get them sat at about 9:15. After that I decide that the lesson is over. Either they got it or not. I tell the server to get on it. They are not ready to order for the first three times he approached the table. The minute his back is turned, two of them rush the bar saying they need drinks. Bartender sends them back to their seats and says he will send server over asap. Like Manuel from Faulty Towers, the server appears at the table. Guess what ? They are still not ready. The brave young girl states that they will wait for their other friends. You get the picture.

Two people stroll in at 10:00. I meet them at the door. They tell me they have a reservation. I smile. ( This is the last day of Dine Out ).

I take them to the table. They look at the table, they look at me. I smile( This is the last day of Dine Out ). They think better of it. They sit down.

Two hours after their reservation time, they order their first drink !

Only 350 more days to go until Dine Out 2006 !

[jamiemaw]

Two hours after their reservation time, they order their first drink !

Only 350 more days to go until Dine Out 2006!

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What utterly despicable manners. In our family we typically order our first drink about two hours before our reservation.

Sure, it can be a bit of a wait, sitting outside in the car like that, but then we know we'll be right on time.

[winegeek]

For those of you in the industry, do the restaurants try and book as many people in as possible to partially offset the no shows? That was the big DOV negative for me this year.

As a diner, I have no problem with a credit card deposit and being done in 2 hours if it means that four people don't have to sit around a table normally meant for two.

I also like the idea of extending it for a longer period, it would feel less like marathon eating that way :)

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I can't speak for all restaurants but we make it a point to never say we have no room for them, no matter how many we have in the book already. "Friday night, 8pm for 8? That's tomorrow, of coarse we can accomodate you! See you then"

Kidding. It's probably a little easier for us because we are a large room. We do allow enough room in the restaurant for walk-ins (we get ALOT) but that would not be possible in a smaller room. No shows are just a part of the businees, albiet a big pain in the ass part. I Don't believe that there is anything we can do about them. But don't take my word for it; I'm sure all hostesses acroos the city would like to add taking credit card info to reserve a table to their already long list of headaches, especially during DOV.

[Chef Metcalf]

In our family we typically order our first drink about two hours before our reservation.

Are we related?

[canucklehead]

As many people have said before - I think that you have to take the whole DOV with a grain of salt and pretend that it is some sort of test drive.

Many of these guys are on our "team" - little guys trying to make it in a very tough market. Sometimes you gotta cut your friends some slack and roll with it all. The manner's displayed by some customers regarding reservations are insanity - and sometimes that makes everybody's fuses a little shorter.

Anyways - I did not do the DOV - did not want to waste calories on possibly uneven situations. For my brother - who did hit DOV very hard - the big winners for him were Pastis and Elixir.

Don't hear very much about Elixir on this site. Apparently, the clientele can be off putting but I hear the Chef is a nice person and I was told that the pear-blue cheese salad was astounding and very well executed.

Don't know if this belong on this thread - but what were the big happy DOV surprises for you guys?

[jbonne]

What utterly despicable manners. In our family we typically order our first drink about two hours before our reservation.

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quite.

we were up in YVR last weekend and after scrambling around for reservation options, we ended up with a two-top at West for 930p Saturday. (apologies to Neil, we had only one dinner and i've got a a backlog.)

having come across the border pretty much to eat and shop down in Richmond, we had NO IDEA that DOV was happening until we sat down at and couldn't find the elaborate tasting menus we'd reviewed online prior to getting in the car and driving four hours north.

when we inquired, we were told about DOV, that West's normal tasting menus were suspended (i asked if this was standard practice across the city, and was told it was -- is that true?) but that since we'd travelled all the way from Seattle, they'd be happy to accomodate us any way they could.

in the end, the $35 menu actually looked pretty darn good, so we asked to order off that menu and have one additional dish, chef's discretion, added prior to our main courses. the extra dishes ended up being picture-perfect (the yellowtail and the foie gras, both off the regular menu) as did the rest of the food.

our server seemed distracted when we first sat down. but after we spent five minutes with him haggling over wine options, he came back, apologized, explained the DOV insanity (having presumably realized we knew our way around a restaurant meal) and that he was being asked to turn each table three times a night -- we were his last turn -- quipped that he'd been juggling too many orders for Coke and water for the past couple weeks and was just sort of dazed at having real patrons order real beverages. that's when he told us to stay as long as we liked, to relax and that the kitchen would accomodate whatever we wanted. foodwise and servicewise, it was a very pleasant experience.

our only quibble was with the wine list, which seemed pricey for the options. we assumed this was a combination of (a) venue/mark-up, (b) the curse of bad, ubiquitous California wine, and © those crazy wine taxes y'all have up north. after an uncharitably candid description of the available BC pinot noirs on the list, we ended up with a Sumac Ridge Steller's Jay brut, which sort of worked but left us mostly dreaming of Oregon. we supplemented with additional glasses along the way, though. and i give them enormous credit for having pineau des Charentes as an apertif.

we were happily surprised that despite showing up 30 minutes early, we were seated 10 minutes later. this may be the upside of the reservation problem Neil describes. (it's still inconceivable to me that people could so abuse reservations. if i'm 20 minutes late, i'm usually wearing my own hairshirt by the time i appear at the door.)

my takeaways, based on our Seattle equivalent to DOV, were:

(1) DOV really should be a weeknight thing, as suggested above.

(2) ditching the regular menus, while a very reasonable notion, seems to penalize diners who'd like to spend lots of cash for an extravagant weekend meal. this isn't done in Seattle, and thank goodness -- since even great restaurants' promo menus here are usually sub-par.

(3) do these promos really help drive return business? i would imagine they must to a modest degree, but i kept wondering if some regular patrons felt put out by the whole thing.

we also had a curious time at Brix, though we only drank at the bar, no food. of seven wines we tasted, maybe two were even drinkable; the rest were flawed either by bad winemaking or by being oxidized. for a wine bar, we wondered, aren't they taking better care of their bottle stock? we figured the bottles had been opened for at least six hours, maybe more. (all but one we ordered were BC wines, btw. and the Italian barbera was almost vinegary.)

takeaway lesson: we're marking on our calendars when DOV is next year, and we will NOT be making any impromptu visits.

[Andrew Morrison]

those crazy wine taxes y'all have up north

our government needs to subsidise Canada's role in the missile defense program.

do these promos really help drive return business? i would imagine they must to a modest degree, but i kept wondering if some regular patrons felt put out by the whole thing.

Yes, I believe they do. I think if it inspires one out of every 25 DOV customers to return at other times during the year it's a success. As for regular patrons feeling put off by DOV, most diners know the score -- January and February are difficult months for us. That being said, I think just doing the DOV menus exclusively is just a raised white flag of surrender. Where's the showcase when you do this?

Again: give us your tired, you poor, your huddled masses...

I'm glad to hear that West was able to accomodate your needs. Having your server "quip" about DOV, cokes, and pulling 3 turns sounds a tad unlikely at West, but I'll take your word for it. After 3 turns I'd probably shed some decorum, too.

As for your experience at Brix, it sounds like you lost the lotto on the wine flights which is really too bad. Shit happens. Every time I've been there it's been top notch from top to bottom, especially in the wine department.

I hope you have better luck the next time you take a trip north. Next time, try the food at Brix...outstanding.

Edited February 7, 2005 by editor@waiterblog (log)

[nwyles]

(1) DOV really should be a weeknight thing, as suggested above.

Hear, hear !

(2) ditching the regular menus, while a very reasonable notion, seems to penalize diners who'd like to spend lots of cash for an extravagant weekend meal. this isn't done in Seattle, and thank goodness -- since even great restaurants' promo menus here are usually sub-par.

I have given this a great deal of thought in the last couple of days and have had discussions with staff. Streamlining the operation on those nights might penalize the patron who wanted to spend more - true. It would also enable me to perhaps spend a couple more bucks on the Dine Out dinner, be it in food cost or labour. I would not have to worry about product from the regular menu spoiling for lack of use or disappointing people who order those regular menu items only to find out that we are out. This has happened as things have fallen in between the cracks and got lost ie : we did not sell a cheesecake for two weeks, guess what, when someone ordered it, we were out. It had just fallen off of the radar. I can only speak for myself but our dine Out menu was very similar to our regular menu so I think you would get a fair idea of what we are all about. I think that next year I might go this route but with some interesting upsells that could razzle dazzle a little bit ie: Lobster risotto upsell or Black truffle Mashed. It is a hard choice. I also see the "white flag of surrender point", it is just hard to deal with when the floodgates open and you are being stormed at the door.

(3) do these promos really help drive return business? i would imagine they must to a modest degree, but i kept wondering if some regular patrons felt put out by the whole thing.

I am in an interesting position, I am a neighbourhood restaurant in a large dining district. Lots of regular guests who know me well and cheer me on when they see that we are busy. When they walk in the door, reservation or not, Dine Out or not, whatever, they get sat. They are the bread and butter all year round. No one is the wiser ! " Good evening Mr Bonne, I have your table ready right over here !" Or " Hi Jon, hey your table will be ready in a few minutes, would you like to have a beer at the bar. They know, you know, it's all cool.

[Mooshmouse]

I think that next year I might go this route but with some interesting upsells that could razzle dazzle a little bit ie: Lobster risotto upsell or Black truffle Mashed.

[snip]

I am in an interesting position, I am a neighbourhood restaurant in a large dining district. Lots of regular guests who know me well...

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Sign me up one year in advance for the lobster risotto and the black truffled mashed potatoes!!

Yeah, you're in an interesting position Neil. You are a neighbourhood restaurant chef whose regular guests bring you kolachies and other food contraband.

[nwyles]

Yeah, you're in an interesting position Neil. You are a neighbourhood restaurant chef whose regular guests bring you kolachies and other food contraband. 

Oh, how soon you forget. How many restaurants do you go to where the Chef brings you a chunk of housemade smoked corn beef as a little something for lunch tomorrow. Which reminds me, there are four more whole corned beef briskets ready to go. I will PM people when it is ready.

Cheers

[Mooshmouse]

Oh, how soon you forget. How many restaurants do you go to where the Chef brings you a chunk of housemade smoked corn beef as a little something for lunch tomorrow. Which reminds me, there are four more whole corned beef briskets ready to go. I will PM people when it is ready.

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Touche!

I'll go back to bowing and scraping now.

[peppyre]

Which reminds me, there are four more whole corned beef briskets ready to go. I will PM people when it is ready.

Cheers

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Hi Neil, How are you? Ummm....corned beef? How many kolachies would you like? I'm willing to skip out on work for the crack that is Neil's corned beef!!

[Ling]

I've never had the corned beef!

[Andrew Morrison]

" Good evening Mr Bonne, I have your table ready right over here !" Or " Hi Jon, hey your table will be ready in a few minutes, would you like to have a beer at the bar. They know, you know, it's all cool.

Awesome. So true

[peppyre]

I've never had the corned beef!

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Oh yes you have Ling!! Remember the corned beef sandwiches from Big Night?

[phaelon56]

Could I please have a full definition of "Goat Rodeo"?

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I just want a definition of DOV. Can't find squat on Google and am truly mystified.

[Marlene]

Dine OUT Vancouver, Owen. Like Restaurant Week.

[jamiemaw]

Could I please have a full definition of "Goat Rodeo"?

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I just want a definition of DOV. Can't find squat on Google and am truly mystified.

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Dine Out Vancouver. It's a promotional vehicle underwritten by Tourism Vancouver and 125 participating restaurants, with three course prix fixe menus at $15, $15 and $35 price points. There is ample discussion of DOV in the Vancouver sub-forum.

[jbonne]

I'm glad to hear that West was able to accomodate your needs. Having your server "quip" about DOV, cokes, and pulling 3 turns sounds a tad unlikely at West, but I'll take your word for it. After 3 turns I'd probably shed some decorum, too. 

As for your experience at Brix, it sounds like you lost the lotto on the wine flights which is really too bad. Shit happens. Every time I've been there it's been top notch from top to bottom, especially in the wine department.

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i got the sense our server at West wouldn't have said any such thing if he hadn't detected that we wouldn't be fazed and knew the score. in fact, i gave him points for being able to detect that we wouldn't be much impressed by the usual patois. (i'm not dissing the usual patois, i'm just saying that not everyone needs that jive.) so i didn't mean it as criticism. in fact, he probably saved our whole experience by explaining the score. we heard him doing his usual spiel at the next table over, so we knew he wasn't just complaining to everyone who sat down.

the Brix wine flights we tried were the B.C. whites and B.C. reds, plus the aforementioned barbera. i'm assuming they were all left open WAY too long, but i'd also deduct points for a wine bar serving anything that bad. i might've sent back one, but it seemed ludicrous to send back the whole flight. yes, i know it's difficult to serve this many wines and keep them all fresh. i still hate paying for bad wine. but now i'm curious about the food.

When they walk in the door, reservation or not, Dine Out or not, whatever, they get sat. They are the bread and butter all year round. No one is the wiser ! " Good evening Mr Bonne, I have your table ready right over here !" Or " Hi Jon, hey your table will be ready in a few minutes, would you like to have a beer at the bar.  They know, you know, it's all cool.

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sounds to me like an excellent policy. i wouldn't argue all restaurants should focus so much on repeat business, but in this case, why alienate your best customers to cater to a bunch of walk-ins who are odds-on likely to be seeking a good meal on the cheap? this is why i hate things like DOV/25 for $25 [seattle's version]/&c. they ruin things for regular patrons who just want a decent meal.

incidentally, as a walk-in i've never flinched at being asked to wait for a few minutes at the bar. presuming, of course, the bar has something worth drinking.

[Ling]

I've never had the corned beef!

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Oh yes you have Ling!! Remember the corned beef sandwiches from Big Night?

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I thought that was pastrami. Corned beef and pastrami is one and the same, then, I guess?

[peppyre]

I've never had the corned beef!

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Oh yes you have Ling!! Remember the corned beef sandwiches from Big Night?

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I thought that was pastrami. Corned beef and pastrami is one and the same, then, I guess?

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Right you are my dear It's good stuff and as I said, like crack! Well for me anyway, for my birthday, I would have happily sat down to a birthday cake made of that pastrami Although the gingerbread is still freakin' good!!

[Daddy-A]

I thought that was pastrami. Corned beef and pastrami is one and the same, then, I guess?

Right you are my dear

Ummm ... not exactly ...

To make pastrami, you start by making corned beef. Corned beef is a beef brisket soaked in brine (with some sugar and spices). According to "The Joy of Cooking," corned beef "has nothing to do with corn but got its name...when a granular salt the size of a kernel of wheat -- corn to a Briton -- was used to process it." By smoking corned beef, you turn it into pastrami! Smoking adds flavor to the meat.

Not that I'm all that fussy when eating either!

A.