Thai Cooking at Home, 2005 - 2006

[snowangel]

Thanks Austin, for elaborating. The reason I stir fry the kwaan tung is that my kids love it that way, and give me the major "yuck" when they see the greens floating in soup.

And, yes to the raw eggplant, but most farangs can't wrap themselves around it.

Please keep participating in this topic! I didn't spend nearly as much time in the kitchen when I lived in Thailand.

[Austin]

Try the nam phrik kapi. It's one of the most common Thai dishes, and is very, very easy to make. Here's an adaptation of recipe I wrote that will be publishedin Fiery Foods magazine in a month or two. You don't have to make the fried vegetables, it's also common to eat nam phrik kapi w/ fresh veggies.:

Nam Phrik Kapi with Fresh and Fried Vegetables

Nam Phrik Kapi is probably the most well known nam phrik in Thailand. As the name suggests, it is made with kapi, a salted and fermented paste of fine shrimp known as khoei, and is always served with fresh and/or parboiled vegetables, as well as egg-battered deep-fried vegetables, as described below. The amount of ingredients listed below for the nam phrik are largely for reference; a Thai chef would virtually never use measuring instruments to cook, and a dish is usually made to taste, keeping in mind a desired balance of the four tastes: sour, spicy, salty and sweet.

3+ phrik khii nuu (very small Thai chillies)

1 tablespoon garlic

1 tablespoon sugar

1 squeezed lime (about 1 tablespoon of juice)

1/4 cup Kapi (Thai shrimp paste)

1 tablespoon water

2 tablespoons makheua phuang (pea-sized Thai eggplant)

4 eggs

1 Chinese or Japanese eggplant, sliced into 1 cm thick rounds and put in a bowl of water mixed with 1 tablespoon of vinegar to prevent browning

1/2 cup vegetable oil

1 bunch of cha om (a pungent vegetable sometimes available frozen in Thai grocery stores)

An assortment of fresh Thai vegetables, such as eggplant, cabbage, carrot, wing bean, long bean, all cut into long bite-size pieces

Using a mortar and pestle, grind the phrik khii nuu with the garlic until a rough paste is formed. Add the sugar and the lime juice and grind together. Add the shrimp paste and continue grinding until a paste forms. Add water. If the mixture is still too thick, add additional water, a teaspoonful at a time (nam phrik kapi should have the consistency of a slightly watery paste). Taste and add more chilies, lime or sugar, to taste. Add the makheua phuang, breaking slightly, but not grinding, with the pestle. Put nam phrik kapi in a serving bowl.

Beat eggs with a few drops of fish sauce or a pinch of salt, divide into two bowls and set aside. Drain eggplant and mix thoroughly with one of the bowls of egg. Heat cooking oil in a wok and taking two or three slices at a time, fry the eggplant in oil on both sides until crispy. Set on paper towels to drain. Remove the tender cha om leaves and blend with the eggs. Fry mixture in hot oil as a thick omelet or frittata, turning over to cook on both sides. Drain on a paper towel until cool then slice into bite-sized squares.

Arrange the fresh and fried vegetables on a plate and serve with rice and bowl of nam phrik kapi.

[Austin]

The recipe above, and a couple pics to illustrate it have been posted at my blog. Nam phrik kapi is a very common Thai dish, and one that is easy to make, so I would encourage everybody to try it.

Austin

[Susan in FL]

OK, at last, jumping back five days to catch up (Austin, seeing this might cause you some frustration; I don't exactly have the desire for the same kind of authenticity as you )...

To use the yu choy, I stir-fried it with mushrooms, in the style of Hot Sour Salty Sweet (HSSS).

I also stir-fried the Chinese broccoli. It was a stir-fry with yellow bean sauce, using an Epicurious recipe.

Both stir-fries were great. I made "The Best Eggplant Dish Ever," page 159 in HSSS. I really liked the pork part and the rest of it, but no matter what kind of eggplants or how I fix it, eggplant is still eggplant to me. It will never be among my favorite vegetables.

Maybe best of all was "Our Favorite Noodles with Greens and Gravy," page 159 in HSSS.

Thanks, All, for the identification of the mystery vegetable and the tips & suggestions. I might make some Thai-style soup sometime soon, using the lemongrass and galangal while they're still fresh.

Who else is doing Thai cooking at home? I know you're out there! Please don't be intimidated by the beautiful food being cooked in Bangkok, like I almost was this time. However, Austin, thanks for your input.

[snowangel]

Beautiful, Susan! And, I really love that noodle dish. Try it sometime with wider noodles! I get the whole sheets (fresh, not dried) at my local Asian market, and cut them into 1" ribbons. Also, this dish is really wonderful with squid.

I've been doing a bit of Thai lately, but think I've been reporting about it on the Venison topic -- note the first two posts on the page to which I linked!

[Susan in FL]

I wanted the wider noodles and will use them -- fresh if available -- or the fresh sheets next time. I was so sure I had wider ones in my supply, I didn't even check beforehand. But alas, I didn't.

There is some good looking food on that venison thread! When we lived up north, hunter friends kept us supplied with venison and I surely do miss that.

[C. sapidus]

We grow chile plants in pots and want to choose the most useful types for Thai cooking. Some Thai recipes specify the type of chili, but others call for “red” or “green”, which is not terribly useful. Different Thai cookbooks specify different substitutes, so I am more confused than usual and would greatly appreciate some advice. Should I just grow the hottest chili available in the appropriate color?

I have grown Thai Hot Dragon chilies; they have been productive and very hot. Do they look like prik khii nuu? How about Thai Giant chilies?

In Thai cooking, is there any use for Piquin chilies? How about Cayenne chilies? A few recipes call for a medium-heat yellow chile. Would a Yellow Wax Chili come in handy?

We also grow several chile plants for Mexican cooking, usually Serrano, Poblano, and Anaheim chilies. Some recipes call for Serrano chilies when Thai chilies are unavailable. Traditional or not, I like using mild Poblano chilies rather than red bell peppers as a vegetable in Thai curries.

Thanks for your help!

Bruce

[Austin]

The Thai Hot Dragon Chilies look like a common form of phrik khii noo. They're much bigger than the "real" phrik khii noo, which are very small, but are still used very often.

The Thai Giant Chilies don't look like anything I've ever seen here!

Regarding the other three, they don't really look very much like anything used here either, although I imagine you could use the Piquin as a substitute for the "real" phrik khii noo.

Bell peppers are not used in any curries, at least not in Thailand! Here they are only used in Chinese-style stir fry dishes.

A good Thai cookbook should be specific about the type of chilies to be used, especially concerning dried chilies. The Thai language cookbooks are obviously very clear about this and there is never any ambiguity, but many English language cookbooks will say something vague like "add five Thai chilies". Dried? Large dried or small dried? Fresh? Which kind? It's really important, as different chilies are used for different reasons!

Austin

[Austin]

Susan, your dishes looked great, especially the stir fried chinese brocoli with fermented soybeans. I make that at least once a week! You make that dish with a variety of veggies, including phak bung "morning glory", or yawd fak maew "chayote/mirlton shoots".

I'm not familiar with the recipe for the eggplant dish you made, but it looks somewhat similar to yam makhuea yaang, a "salad" of roasted long eggplants topped with ground pork, hard-boiled eggs, and the requisite fish sauce and lime juice. When done well it can be very good. I don't think makhuea proh, the round eggplants you used, really "work" in that sort of dish.

Austin

[Susan in FL]

Good to know, Austin, thanks. The recipe in HSSS called for the eggplants to get cooked down a lot more than I did mine. I have trouble with the sliminess of eggplant anyway, so I didn't want the slime spread throughout the whole dish. Mmmm, hard boiled eggs would be good on it.

I'll definitely make the Chines broccoli stir-fry again.

[Megan Blocker]

Ooooh, Susan, that noodles with greens and gravy is making me droooool all over the keyboard.

[Abra]

I'm starting to do some Thai cooking at home, because my neighbors are Thai and own a Thai restaurant. They invite me into the restaurabt kitchen and give me lessons from time to time, plus cook me off-menu "Thai-style" dishes whenever I go in there. Just yesterday I picked up a jar of cassia leaves (bai grawan) just because I was curious about it. I took it into the restaurant for advice, and they cooked it up for me on the spot into a red coconut curry with grilled beef. Pretty delicious, actually, and the leaves are a subtle but different ingredient.

I also got some fresh pandan leaves, the first time I've ever seen them, and I'm planning to make a recipe I found online for Gai Hoh Bai Toey, a dish of marinated chicken bites wrapped in pandan leaf. I see some recipes where the wrapped packets are steamed, some for steamed then fried, some for grilled - what's the nicest way I can do this dish?

Any other suggested uses for pandan would also be very welcome! I know I can knot the leaves in rice water, and that I can extract them with coconut milk in the blender for sweets - what else?

[Austin]

You can do lotsa stuff with pandan leaves! Taxi drivers in Bangkok like to put a bunch behind the back seat, as it makes the taxi smell nice. You'll probably want something more practical though... You can boil them to make a nice juice (you have to boil them for a really, really long time), or throw a couple small pieces in the pot next time you make rice (as I think you mentioned). Pandan tends to give more of a fragrance than a flavor. While cooking coconut milk or syrup for desserts, Thai often throw a couple knotted pandan leaves in. This is also done for deep frying, especially southern-style fried chicken and deep-fried bananas.

As for the kai hor bai toei, I've only ever had it deep-fried. It can be really, really good, but you'll need the right marinade for the the chicken, and the right dipping sauce. Ask your neighbors for the details!

Austin

[Abra]

Thanks, Austin! I want to surprise my neighbors with a treat, so I've been looking at this marinade recipe and this little dipping sauce. Sound right?

I don't think I'm ready to buy a taxi to go with my leaves, but it's a thought!

Oh, that chile jam that's pictured upthread? It looks so delicious, and I don't see the recipe posted anywhere. Can anyone point me to it?

Edited March 21, 2006 by Abra (log)

[Austin]

Abra: I should begin by admitting that I've never actually made this dish, but I've eaten it heaps of times and know how it should taste! The first recipe looks waaay off, I'm sure there's neither coconut milk nor turmeric involved in the marinade. The second is somewhat closer, but the dipping sauce recipe is not even close.

After a bit of searching I found this: Gai Hor Bai Toey, which looks to be quite accurate.

I'll try to do it when I get some time and post the results on my blog.

Austin

[Abra]

Oh wow, Austin, that recipe really bears no resemblance to the one I was going to use. Maybe because it's a steamed version? Now I want to try them both! Thanks so much for searching it out for me.

It's funny about the glucose, which I don't think of as an Asian ingredient. This recipe, and another I found for pandan ice cream, both use it. I just happen to have some, but I think of that as a very unusual addition.

What does "white" soya mean? For Thai soy sauce I only have Golden Mountain - would that do? And would palm sugar be better than molasses? I do have that at home too.

[Austin]

I thought the strange English in the recipe might be a problem!

In Thailand there are two kinds of soy sauce: sii ew khaow ("white soy sauce") and see ew dam ("black soy sauce"). See ew khaow is a bit sweeter and thicker (but not white in any way!).

Molasses as in the west doesn't exist here. I'll bet they mean unrefined cane sugar.

Austin

[Abra]

Austin, you're a treasure. I have Golden Mountain, ketcap manis, Kikkoman brewed in Japan, and Silver Swan soy sauces. Can I use one or a combo of those, or do I need to go shopping?

Unrefined cane syrup? And glucose is correct? Not that I'm obsessing or anything!

[Austin]

I'd have to see the bottle; Golden Mountain, if I remember correctly, makes both "white" and "black" soy sauces!

I'd go with unrefined cane sugar/syrup. Not sure about the glucose... Maybe they're just referring to regular, white processed sugar?

[C. sapidus]

Austin: Thanks, you are very helpful! I will order a Thai Hot Dragon plant, and keep an eye out for a smaller, hotter version. David Thompson’s cookbook is on my list, but I’ll have to make do with what I have for now. Can you describe some of the other Thai chilies (size, color, shape, heat, flavor), or reasonable substitutes that may be available in the U.S.? Besides prik khii noo, are any particular kinds of Thai chilies used most frequently? The Asian grocery in town carries prik khii noo, but I would like to grow my own chilies because better-stocked groceries are nearly an hour away.

Background: we are saving for an addition to our house. When the addition is done, we will have enough sunny windows to over-winter potted chile plants indoors. Chile production shuts down for the winter, but the plants start cranking out chilies as soon as the weather warms and we can set the pots outside. If I can find a few good chile plants, we will be able to keep them going indefinitely despite freezing winters. This is why I’m trying to identify worthwhile varieties to grow.

Thanks again -- Bruce

[Austin]

Bruce: I'm crazy busy at the moment, but when I get a chance I'll go to a market and take pics of the different kinds of Thai chiles, describe how they're used and post the results on my blog (sorry, but I find eGullet a pain). I've been meaning to do this for a while anyway.

Your "greenhouse" plan sounds awesome. Conversely, I tried to grow western-style herbs (thyme, rosemary, Italian parsley, oregano) outside my house here in Thailand and it was a miserable failure! I do want to try again though, so maybe we can exchange info later?

Austin

[Susan in FL]

Austin, I'm sure I speak for all when I say that we would really appreciate your taking the time to post photos on eGullet, as well as your blog. You are such a great contributor here. I would be honored for you to post more photos on this thread. Please...?

[C. sapidus]

Austin: There is no urgency on the chilies, so don’t make yourself crazy. When you have time, I would love to see your pictures from the market and accompanying descriptions.

As you probably know, many western-style herbs prefer well-draining soil and a Mediterranean climate (sunny, fairly dry, and moderate temperatures). Thailand’s hot and rainy seasons would be tough on such plants, so information from local growers would be most valuable. Richter's carries a wide variety of herbs, and searching their question and answer page for “tropic” yields some potentially helpful information.

Growing herbs in the tropics and protecting basil from torrential rainfall may be particularly relevant for your situation. Richter’s also has some promising information about growing oregano.

I am happy to provide whatever I know about growing herbs as a small repayment for your generous advice about Thai cooking.

Bruce

Edited to fix links

Edited March 23, 2006 by C. sapidus (log)

[Austin]

Thanks Bruce, that's wonderful, I'll definately look into trying again.

I've made a couple more Thai dishes and have posted the recipes on my blog: plaa som, a southern-style fried fish with a spicy/sour sauce, and phat khanaa fai daeng, "flame fried Chinese broccoli". Again, I apologize for redirecting to my blog--I find eGullet very un-intuitive, and I can't be bothered to post things twice (and for you conspiracy theorists out there, no, I'm not simply fishing for more hits to my blog, I don't even have a counter).

Enjoy! Would be curious to see the results if anybody else tries them!

Austin

[Susan in FL]

This is the Thai we had the other night, using most of the ingredients left from the last shopping... Thai Fried Rice; "Aromatic Minced Pork, Shan Style," in HSSS aka pork laab; and a platter of lettuces and herbs, etc.