Which Pizza Stone

[NulloModo]

Heya,

So I've decided that I would like to get a pizza stone.

I found the following item at Bed Bath and Beyond:

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.as...-1&SKU=11722130

And the price is very nice. I have to wonder where it skimps out as it is only $8 though. Would something like this do me any good, or, is there another stone someone would recommend? Ideally, I would like to avoid paying $40 for a rock to sit in my oven, and if it comes to that kind of price, I will just go do the tile route at a home improvement store (although I would prefer an all one piece thing, as opposed to lots of little tiles).

[scott123]

Thermal mass is a thin crust pizza thing. The thicker the stone, the more heat it retains. The more heat it retains, the faster the pizza cooks, providing you with greater oven spring, increased moisture retention, and a more flavorful char. For those NY style thin crust enthusiasts like myself, a pizza that cooks in 3 minutes is better than one that cooks in 15. The crust is chewy yet fluffy and tender at the same time.

But hey, there are many paths to pizza bliss. For recreating a Dominoes type of pizza crust... well...

I have to confess that I worked at Dominoes... for a full 15 minutes ;) During those treasured moments, I definitely recall seeing a conveyor belt. I'd wager to say that a Dominoes Pizza never came in contact with stone. Maybe if I'd degraded myself for a few minutes longer, I'd know exactly how Dominoes pizza is made. I guess I'll have to live with that :)

Seriously, though, I think the bottom line is that once you leave the thin crust realm, it's really more about breadmaking than it is about pizza making and thermal mass/retained heat/speed become less of an issue. If you cook a thicker crust pizza too quickly you'll end up with raw dough in the middle. Dominoes certainly isn't Sicilian, but it definitely isn't flimsy either.

[NulloModo]

Well, I pretty much have decided I want a stone, now it is just about _which_ stone. There is another slightly larger one at both BB&B and LnT. They are both listed as ceramic though, and not stone. Is a ceramic pizza stone a real pizza stone?

I would like to play around with the thin crust thing, but I also just want a crust that is nice and crispy on the bottom/edges, and well, crusty instead of bready.

EDIT:

Oooh, I think you misunderstood my question. I wasn't asking about the thickness of the pizza crust, but rather the thickness of the pizza stone. The LnT and BB&B models look fairly thin, and I was wondering if they were actually functional, or just 'for show'. Williams and Sonoma seems to have one that looks a bit thicker from the online photos...

Edited December 28, 2004 by NulloModo (log)

[gperls]

The best pizza stone for the budget minded is to get a bunch of unglazed quarry tiles from any local home improvement store. Be sure to measure your oven rack first, and allow 2" on all sides for air flow. Whole thing shouldn't cost you more than $10, and you'll have a 1/2" thick pizza stone, bigger than the BB&B thing.

[slbunge]

I have one of those cheap BB&B pizza stones and it works reasonably well. For $12ish it was an improvement over no stone (even for regular baking because it increases the thermal mass of the oven) but eventually I will want something more substantial. I keep it on the bottom of the oven but move it to a rack when baking directly on it. So far it has cracked once so far but is still usable.

I opted not to go with the tile idea because I thought they might move or shift as I used a peel to get the bread or pizza from the stone. Also, unglazed tiles are about $1 each and appeared to be the same thickness as my BB&B stone so $4-8 savings didn't seem worth the risk to me.

[RobStagis]

Mine is Pampered Chef. Yeah, the home party people. It's about 1/2 thick, I guess. I do my bagels on it, putting the stone, loaded with bagel fetuses into the hot (450) oven, but the stone's cold. Works great. The bagels brown well without burning on the bottom. Using it preheated for pizza also works well.

[bbq4meanytime]

NulloModo, my wife bought me that same exact (or nearly exact) stone like a year ago. We used it for the first time last week and made the best pizza I've had in a long time.

Works just fine. I cranked the oven up to 500 degrees and the pizzas were cooking perfectly in about 8-10 minutes.

[Sid Post]

Heya,

  So I've decided that I would like to get a pizza stone.

  Would something like this do me any good, or, is there another stone someone would recommend?  Ideally, I would like to avoid paying $40 for a rock to sit in my oven, and if it comes to that kind of price, I will just go do the tile route at a home improvement store (although I would prefer an all one piece thing, as opposed to lots of little tiles).

←

The one you linked to looks just like mine. IMHO, it is a waste of money. I have a good convection oven it does nothing to help my pizza making. I suspect if I still have that apartment oven, it would make a tangible difference. Knowing what I do now, I would go the "make my own" route so I could get more thermal mass into the pizza stone surface.

If I could get a local potter to make a pizza stone an inch thick, that would probably be a good way to go for a single "piece" stone. Unglazed Italian or Mexican floor tiles would be my second pick. Preferably, the 16 or 18 inch ones stacked on top of each other for thermal mass and low cost.

For something a little upscale, I would try one of those quarries or a Granite countertop "mom and pop" shop, looking through their scrap for the largest piece that would fit in my oven.

Finally, if your oven is old and doesn't maintain heat well, a layer of normal clay fired bricks in the bottom will help keep all the BTU's your old oven spits out doing as much as they can.

Myself, I am thankful for the convection oven in my house.

[trillium]

I think heat transfer is independent of how thick the stone is and has more to do with the physical properties of what is conducting the heat.

I used quarry tiles for years. They work better then nothing at all, but someone I trusted swore by the patented FibraMent-D stuff. To celebrate not being a starving graduate student I finally ordered one, and I really wish I had done it sooner. It makes a huge difference in making pizze and breads and it also evens out the heat for baking things like cakes in a crappy oven. I leave mine in the oven almost always, and just preheat for around an hour. It's one of my favorite pricey things to have in the kitchen, I'd lose my stupid KA mixer before I lost the stone.

FibraMent-D stones for home use

regards,

trillium

[NulloModo]

Hmmm, interesting Trillium.

I picked up the $15 15" Farberware pizza stone kit at LnT today... but when I got it home the stone was shattered in the box, so it looks like I need to return/exchange... I wonder if that is an omen...

Trillium -

What are the differences in actual performance between that stone and the regular one you had before? What does it do differently, better, etc?

Edited December 28, 2004 by NulloModo (log)

[scott123]

Nullo, the thickness of the crust you're striving for is a huge factor in choosing the stone. Since you mentioned Dominoes thickness in a previous thread, I assumed that was still your goal.

Thin crust - thick stone (thermal mass)

Thick crust - thickness of stone less important.

[Kevin72]

The only comment I can make here is that I initially bought a thin, possibly ceramic stone at Sur La Table and it blew up in my oven on the test run. Exchanged it for a new one and again it happened. Then I bought an actual "stone" for about $15 more and it's worked fine ever since.

[scott123]

I think heat transfer is independent of how thick the stone is and has more to do with the physical properties of what is conducting the heat.

←

Yes, the material the stone is comprised of plays a role in it's ability to both retain and transfer heat. But the thickness, imo, plays a much larger role in relation to thermal mass. A stone is not like a frying pan, with the heat coming from somewhere else and the 'container' being just a conduit for that energy. Stone baking isn't about middlemen. It's about preheating a thick enough stone for a long enough time so that the stone itself becomes the primary heat source. The pre-heated stone contains the necessary energy to bake the pizza. Sure, the oven is pumping out some BTUs that are resulting in some addtional convective/radiative energy, but the lion's share comes from what's in the preheated stone. It wouldn't brown that much on top, but a pizza should be able to baked on a preheated stone with the oven turned off.

As the stone get's thinner, the less thermal mass it has, the less heat it is able to retain, the more of a middleman it becomes, the more dependent it is on the energy coming from the oven's heating element.

Thin stones = middlemen = inefficient, slow baking = good for bread/thick crusts

Thick stones = major players = wham bam thank you mam = good for thin crusts

[scott123]

The only comment I can make here is that I initially bought a thin, possibly ceramic stone at Sur La Table and it blew up in my oven on the test run.  Exchanged it for a new one and again it happened.

←

Did you wash the stone before you put it in the oven? Even if you dry the surface, residual moisture on the inside of the stone can expand too quickly and cause it to explode.

[bong]

I used to use unglazed quarry tiles (from Home depot -- I bought 4 six-inch tiles, cost around $3-$4 I think) for a long time, they worked great for my thin crust pizzas.

I then purchased the Fibrament D-stones that trillium recommends. This one was around $40 I think.

With unglazed quarry stones, My (12-inch) thin crust pizzas used to take about 12-14 minutes in my oven. With the Fibrament stones, it shaved off about 3 minutes. These few minutes are important to me, especially if I am making multiple pizzas and I have to do them serially.

If you are starting out, I would recommend you purchase the cheap unglazed quarry tiles, they are much cheaper, and really would give you decent results for the price. Once you are ready to step up, you can spend your money on more expensive stones.

And, like scott123 sez, nature of pizza stone is more important only if you are making thin crust pizzas.

[scott123]

With unglazed quarry stones, My (12-inch) thin crust pizzas used to take about 12-14 minutes in my oven. With the Fibrament stones, it shaved off about 3 minutes.

←

Only 3 minutes less? Were the quarry tiles you were using fairly thick? Gas or electric oven? How long of a preheat?

[NulloModo]

OK, well, I Went back to LnT and exchanged my broken stone for an unbroken one, got it back, and just had to whip up a pizza to test it out.

I used v.2 of my Carbquick pizza dough recipe -

1 3/4 Cups CarbQuick

2 1/2 T Wheat Protein Isolate (for stretchyness)

1 T Polydextrose

1 T Olive Oil

1 t salt

1 t yeast

3/4 Cups water (heh, I just found out liquid and dry measures aren't the same, well, I guess I already sorta had heard it in the back of my head, but I had no idea they were so different, so I picked up a liquid measuring cup today too).

I topped it with a light coating of sauce, some pepperoni, and mozerella, heated up the oven to around 550+ (as far as the dial would go) and let it preheat the stone for around 15 mins after the oven hit temp.

I rolled out the dough after letting it rise for around an hour, pinched a crust around the edge, topped it, and peeled it onto the stone as quickly as I could. A little less than ten minutes later, the pizza was done (bordering on overdone, whoops, shoulda checked earlier).

Well, the stone certainly solved my underdone in the middle issue, the crust was crispy, crusty, and had a great flavor. The toppings were also nicely cooked, as I would hope.

My issue now will just be to fine-tune the recipe, as it is just a bit too biscuity and dry at the moment. I am thinking of adding a bit more WPI for more chewiness, and olive oil and Polydextrose for more moisture retention in my next attempt.

[bong]

With unglazed quarry stones, My (12-inch) thin crust pizzas used to take about 12-14 minutes in my oven. With the Fibrament stones, it shaved off about 3 minutes.

←

Only 3 minutes less? Were the quarry tiles you were using fairly thick? Gas or electric oven? How long of a preheat?

←

Yes, I was also surprised about the "only 3 minutes less", I was expecting a bit more. The quarry tiles I was using before are the plain vanilla pretty thin variety.

I usually set my electric oven to its highest setting (550 degree fahrenheit) and preheat for at least an hour. The stone/tiles is placed on the lowest rack, which is about 2 inches away from the heating element.

[scott123]

With unglazed quarry stones, My (12-inch) thin crust pizzas used to take about 12-14 minutes in my oven. With the Fibrament stones, it shaved off about 3 minutes.

←

Only 3 minutes less? Were the quarry tiles you were using fairly thick? Gas or electric oven? How long of a preheat?

←

Yes, I was also surprised about the "only 3 minutes less", I was expecting a bit more. The quarry tiles I was using before are the plain vanilla pretty thin variety.

I usually set my electric oven to its highest setting (550 degree fahrenheit) and preheat for at least an hour. The stone/tiles is placed on the lowest rack, which is about 2 inches away from the heating element.

←

Highest setting, an hour preheat, lowest shelf and what could be twice the thickness of stone... and yet only 3 minutes less. Hmmmmm... that is very strange. Maybe it's possible that the fribament stone is engineered for less heat retention/better results with bread.

If you want to trim that time down a little more, toss some quarry tiles on the rack above and create a ceiling.

[scott123]

Nullo, that seems to be a universal complaint about carbquik - phenomenal for biscuits but once you try something else, it's just too biscuity.

[NulloModo]

Nullo, that seems to be a universal complaint about carbquik - phenomenal for biscuits but once you try something else, it's just too biscuity.

←

Yeah, well, it is supposed to be a Bisquick sub,and most people don't make pizza crust from bisquick, so I guess I can understand... I'm going to keep playing with it though, something should come from it.

From the thread over at LCF though it sounded like the company might introduce the Carbolose flour as a standalone product if there was enough demand, I hope that they realize there would be huge demand for something like that and get it released soon.

[trillium]

Hmmm, interesting Trillium.

I picked up the $15 15" Farberware pizza stone kit at LnT today... but when I got it home the stone was shattered in the box, so it looks like I need to return/exchange... I wonder if that is an omen...

Trillium -

What are the differences in actual performance between that stone and the regular one you had before?  What does it do differently, better, etc?

←

Performance wise, my 12 inch pizze cook in around 7 - 8 minutes, total. Before that they took around 13 - 14 minutes and the edges cooked a lot fast then the center. With this stone, the center cheese bubbles around the same time the edges do, in otherwords, things are cooking around the same rate throughout the pizze. I do what I guess would be thin crust, but it isn't cracker crisp type, just a basic hand thrown simple dough. The breads I bake on the stone don't deflate as much, I'm not sure how else to describe it, but when I push them from the peel to the stone they tend to poof instead of deflating as before. They also cook more evenly, with a more even browning on the bottom, before a corner or two would get pretty dark/burnt before the loaf was done. Lastly, I bake my cakes (in their pans) directly on the stone and they don't dome, they bake flat. Again, I think this is due to the cakes cooking more evenly then before. It could be I notice such a dramatic difference because I am baking in crappy apartment ovens, which tend to be the cheapest money can buy and have horrible hotspots.

regards,

trillium

[blork]

I started using unglazed quarry stone a few months ago with great success (I wrote about it on my blog, <a href="http://blork.typepad.com/blorkblog/2005/01/pizza_stoned.html" target="_blank">here</a>.)

One thing that surprised me when I was researching pizza stones -- and I see it in this thread too -- is how long they suggest you pre-heat the stones. For me, the idea of having my oven raging at 525 or 550 FOR AN HOUR so I can cook a pizza in four minutes is a colossal waste of energy. I just can't wrap my head around it.

I generally let the oven come to temperature and then wait another five or ten minutes, max. It sure seems to work. I can cook a thin-crust pie in about six or seven minutes and it comes out nice and crispy.

So the question remains: is it really necessary to pre-heat for so long? I could understand it if the stone was two inches thick, but my quarry stones (and most of the pizza stones I had previously considered buying) are not quite 1/2 an inch. Does pre-heating for an hour make any difference than pre-heading for 30 minutes? How about 15 minutes? 5 minutes?

I realize there are purists who will argue for an hour's preheating no matter what, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone has actually done any tests or knows of any articles debunking the one-hour pre-heat.

I'm still working on the dough -- I haven't done it enough to be consistent yet and I still haven't quite nailed the super-thin one.

[Kevin72]

Did you wash the stone before you put it in the oven? Even if you dry the surface, residual moisture on the inside of the stone can expand too quickly and cause it to explode.

←

Didn't see this way back when. No, it went from the box to the cold oven and warmed up from there. I remember being really paranoid about any moisture getting on them and re-read all the wash instructions carefully.

Both blew up as soon as I put the pizza on them, and the pizzas were fresh-made, not frozen or in any way cold.

[Behemoth]

Nullo, sorry I didn't check this thread sooner. I had a similar design pizza stone from Crate and Barrel which cracked on me. Twice. We'd registered for it as a wedding present. (This is before I found egullet and read about the miracle of quarry tiles.)

The nice thing is after the second time, I just told them I wanted a different stone because I thought the combination of metal and stone was a design flaw. (I don't know about your particular one, but my instructions seemed to assume you would leave the metal on.) The one I exchanged for was similarly priced but the size of my oven floor so I use it for bread and stuff too. And it has no metal parts, hasn't cracked despite very heavy usage.

Anyway, if yours cracks you should feel completely justified asking for your money back from BB&B.

Oh, I never wash the thing, I just brush it off. If I ever make friends with anyone who has a gas self-cleaning oven, I will make them clean it for me, but so far it seems to work fine.