We are losing what little dining history we have!

[John Jameson]

We are losing what little dining history we have!

We lost the Aristocrat to Chapters, Trader Vic's to something and Alma Street Café to condos, etc. If somebody tried to close the Naam would you do anything about it?

Should Vancouver start an organization charged with the responsibility of reviving such beauties as “Only Seafood” and “Ovaltine Café” or should we allow them to just fade away?

What do you think?

Sean Heather

Edited December 20, 2004 by John Jameson (log)

[Sam Salmon]

If somebody tried to close the Naam would you do anything about it?

←

Throw a PARTY!!!!!!!!!!

Honest to god does anyone care about that ancient bastion of mediocrity?

As to The Only haven't been there for 20 years at least-not since someone asked me to pick up his teeth because he had coughed and spat them out on the floor "they're right under you chair" I remember him mumbling.(I am not making this up!!)

Think of restaurant history as a karmic wheel-all that is here today is illusion and will soon fade to be replaced by another illusion.

Driving along a city street it's easy to believe in reincarnation when one contemplates the buildings that once held someone's dreams now flogging used bicycles and garden tools-all illusion.

[John Jameson]

If somebody tried to close the Naam would you do anything about it?

←

Throw a PARTY!!!!!!!!!!

Honest to god does anyone care about that ancient bastion of mediocrity?

As to The Only haven't been there for 20 years at least-not since someone asked me to pick up his teeth because he had coughed and spat them out on the floor "they're right under you chair" I remember him mumbling.(I am not making this up!!)

Think of restaurant history as a karmic wheel-all that is here today is illusion and will soon fade to be replaced by another illusion.

Driving along a city street it's easy to believe in reincarnation when one contemplates the buildings that once held someone's dreams now flogging used bicycles and garden tools-all illusion.

←

Hi Sam,

So reading between the lines, I’m sensing that you aren’t interested in being President of Archive Eatery Salvation!

The idea would be to buy an ailing historic eatery and restore it to its former glory. Presumably in the case of the “Only Seafood” one would shoot for the glory years and not 20 years ago when you graciously assisted the older gent with his teeth (I assume that he was older, although this is not always a given).

I tried to buy the “Only “ last year but was unsuccessful, ditto the “Ovaltine”…long story, but in the process I learned a lot about them. For instance when you balked at the gent’s dentures smacking the tiles, the “Only” had already been open for close to 70 years. That means that young men returning from Great War grabbed a meal there before heading North to the lumber camps. That is the stuff of legend…well, to me anyway, I really enjoy sharing a seat with history. All I’m saying is wouldn’t it be great to stop the rot, clean them up, freshen up the food and save them.

With regards to the Naam, you say “ancient bastion of mediocrity” and I say a Vancouver institution with great vegetarian food and sleepy service, we’ll have to agree to differ. I really believe that Vancouver would be worse off without the Naam in just the same way that every city needs a Lumière, a C, etc.

I never expect quick or even polite service at the Naam and I’m rarely surprised. If I’m stressed or pressed for time, I eat elsewhere. Why do I go there? Because the food is good, the price is right and in the late 60’s and early 70’s the Naam was a base for the active underground pipeline of Vietnam War draft dodgers. When I step inside the Naam I feel as though I have stepped back into the 60’s, I imagine that this would be the kind of place that Kerouac and Ginsberg would have frequented. I dig that sort of thing and I’m finding it hard to believe that I’m alone.

I’ve traveled most of the world and in each city there are stacks of eateries that have stood the test of time and that are loved by the locals. We have them in Vancouver too, but I fear that we will lose them if we are not careful.

One could almost call that bad Karma.

Sean Heather

Edited December 20, 2004 by John Jameson (log)

[Megaroo]

I think it's a shame that here in North America, we tend to automatically tear down buildings to make way for the newest and latest. I myself would love to see buildings fully restored and if possible, kept to their original design/use. However, if the food sucks... keep the building... get rid of the restaurant!

[Daddy-A]

Should Vancouver start an organization charged with the responsibility of reviving such beauties as “Only Seafood” and “Ovaltine Café” or should we allow them to just fade away?

Sean,

Are we talking about the building or the business? Because, if it's the building then I'm behind you all the way. Vancouver is very bad at levelling its architectural history in the name of progress. We're getting better (e.g. Yaletown) but still have a long way to go.

Now if we're talking about the business, here's where we part company. A business survives not because it is "historically significant" to the city. It survives because it provides a service people want. Places like The Aristocrat fall by the wayside all the time. I should say I know absolutely nothing about the place (except a coffee and muffin I had there one "morning after" ) so other than the building being sold to make way for another, bigger building, I don't know why it didn't relocate. Perhaps the owners took their big "cash-in" and retired. I do agree that we are lacking in the long-standing diner-type places. Legislating them into solvency isn't the answer. Supporting them so they'll stay open is.

If somebody tried to close the Naam would you do anything about it?

←

Throw a PARTY!!!!!!!!!!

Honest to god does anyone care about that ancient bastion of mediocrity?

<SNIP>

Think of restaurant history as a karmic wheel-all that is here today is illusion and will soon fade to be replaced by another illusion.

Driving along a city street it's easy to believe in reincarnation when one contemplates the buildings that once held someone's dreams now flogging used bicycles and garden tools-all illusion.

I never thought I'd say this ... but I agree with Sam The Naam is okay. Never understood the buzz. But it stays in business so it must be doing something right. I like you're illusion analogy too Sam. History cannot be created, it must simply exist.

A.

[peppyre]

I think to certain extent there are historical businesses. Think of what a loss to Canada it was when we lost Eatons, think about how much worse it may be it the Bay. The company that founded Canada. The Only is an institution and is of great historical significance for this city. I definitely think that these institutions and buildings should be saved. Maybe not in the same incarnation as they are now, but restored back to their original glory.

The Aristrocrat did try and continue on in another location. They moved a block off Cambie on where the Cactus Club now stands. There was a devastating fire in the building about 5 years ago that leveled the block and they never reopened.

So, Sean, I am completely with you and think that there are certain institutions in Vancouver that do need to be saved and I for one would love to see it happen.

[Coop]

While we are at it how about saving an other form of entertainment that seems to becoming endangered. Strip Bars. In the last decade we have lost the NBI, the Arch, Mr Sport, Port Moody Inn and numerous others.

It's a silent cause because no one wants to help 40 + year old men who enjoy a beer and some scenery.

[Daddy-A]

While we are at it how about saving an other form of entertainment that seems to becoming endangered. Strip Bars. In the last decade we have lost the NBI, the Arch, Mr Sport, Port Moody Inn and numerous others.

It's a silent cause because no one wants to help 40 + year old men who enjoy a beer and some scenery.

←

Coop, don't forget the Lougheed!

Man I miss the Arch ... best cheeseburgers ever.

A.

[John Jameson]

Morning Coop & Daddy A,

I didn’t include Peeler Bars for several of reasons, the best would probably be that I hadn’t considered them to be eateries and this is eGullet.

I’m new, so I still have to learn the boundaries…just so I’m clear, wing night at the local barefoot ballet is eGullet material.

Got it.

Sean Heather

[Daddy-A]

I’m new, so I still have to learn the boundaries…just so I’m clear, wing night at the local barefoot ballet is eGullet material.

Sean - you'll notice how I cleverly worked "cheeseburger" into the equation. As long as it's food related, go for it. Check out some of the threads under General Food Topics and you'll see how fine some people cut that rule!

A.

[DameD]

I am with Sean and peppyre, we seem to be losing everything here, i just heard that target is line for buying the bay .. gasp how horrible. I eat shrimp salad sandwiches with my 85 year nanna there.Thats an insitutution. I am not keen on the Naam and will never go there without protesting, but it is a peice of history and there for a purpose. I mean there are still line ups to go there. It would be great if we could restore and bring back to life to a few oldies. I llike what they did to the Templeton, a great feeling and good food, even though it may not be the same years ago, i doubt they served portabllo burgers, but still a good vibe. I think it would be horrible if they did something to Cafe Sil Plait. Aahh so many nights eating mac & cheese. If the "only" and the Ovaltine was fixed up a bit i would be all over it. I am all over for rebuilding east van. A lot gets forgoten over here.

[2roost]

We are losing what little dining history we have!

We lost the Aristocrat to Chapters, Trader Vic's to something and Alma Street Café to condos, etc. If somebody tried to close the Naam would you do anything about it?

Should Vancouver start an organization charged with the responsibility of reviving such beauties as “Only Seafood” and “Ovaltine Café” or should we allow them to just fade away?

←

Are we talking about Historically important restaurants or just "way cool signs" ?

The Aristocrat was one of dozens of diner style restaurants who disappear - or move to other areas as the demographics of their area change. Trader Vic's closed all over North America as their faux Polynesia fell out of favour ( I believe the actual structure was bought for a song and towed up the coast to be a fishing lodge). Alma Street Cafe had a run of what 10 years and was hardly historically significant.

The "Ovaltine" and "Only" do have some historical perspective but having eaten at both extensively in the 80's I would have to seriously question any culinary landmark status for them. That being said I am all in favour of some entrepreneur stepping in to preserve them but given the economic situation in the area where these two establishments reside I'm not going to hold my breath.

The sale of The Bay will be sad in the sense that a national icon will once more be sold out of country but let's remember that The Hudson's Bay Company was original an English endeavour.

I wonder what the situation is like in other major cities - do "civic minded individuals" step in or are restaurant and department store icons viewed as market driven commercial entities who survive only if turning a profit ?

[Coop]

You can see the old sign from the Arictocrat at Chapters if it's the neon you like. Although I don't share your love for old restaurants and was only kidding about the strip joints (my wife may read this). I do agree that Vancouver is really all about what is shiny and new. I think it's only going to get worse because of 2010. Our city fathers would be horrified if the world saw the real downtown eastside in one of those Bob Costas pieces NBC loves to run during the games. BTW where did the downtown eastside go during the Group of 7 conference a few years ago. The streets were abandoned.

What's in that great old building that used to house Lola's? Other then it I can't think of a single restaurant in a historically significant building.

Edited December 21, 2004 by Coop (log)

[butter]

Didn't Milestones used to be one tiny diner on English Bay originally? Why hasn't the same happened with The Only, Ovaltine, or Naam? Don't get me wrong, I don't want that to happen, just wondering?

[vancanjay]

Not sure if this applies in all citys but it sure seems to happen here. (I think the young nature of Vancouver does play a role)

Our classic venues are taken for granted until the wrecking ball has arrived. A few articles show up in the local press and then on we go to our franchised outlets with consitent food, service and decor.

As ironic as it may appear, history has little value in our time of fast food and preservatives. We look for instant reward and the next cool venue. Just look to the forums and see the response rate on the latest new rooms in any city. People are clamouring for the the new. In many cases, not enough people care for the old and classic. This applies in many aspects of our society and I'm sad to say I'm generally part of this group.

Will our children learn classic recipes, play traditional instruments or are we an evolving species that keeps innovating and moving forward forgetting our past?

My guess is the fringe will keep our history alive, sometimes with little reward yet others will allow a niche to prosper for another generation or two.

[stovetop]

The restaurant business and tourism has not meant very much to van (gov), maybe more BC, before 2010; my personnel opinion, it really does not mean much now, except Campbell the premier and his cronies made a lot of money on realistate in Whistler.

The West has taken a while to realize the history here, the Canadian gov still has not excepted non English Canadian history before 1900, so van is very young compared to the rest of the coast, there are farms in Cowichan that date back to 1860 or earlier for white man, I have read of hops being grown in Squamish around the same time period; whistler they torn down Myrtle Phillips lodge before they realized they fucked up; then they left a fax of what was there. Now Whistler has lost all its Character because of much of the same action, tourism pre dates logging, bite my lip.

My research shows it does, tourism goes back in BC before logging was even an industry, it started with whaling, which predates logging by over 100 years.

Just some insight and opinion based on some fax

steve

Edited December 27, 2004 by stovetop (log)