Chocolates with that showroom finish, 2004 - 2011

[tammylc]

I'm still trying to get the hang of airbrushing.  I tried out using an angle when airbrushing to get two tone chocolates, but I guess that the angle was too steep.  I ended up with one color on one side and the other on the other side.  And then when I put a layer of white in back, I ended up with a white stripe down the middle!  On top of that the orange cocoa butter was much thinner than I expected when I sprayed it and it started to pool in the bottom of the mold. I guess that it was probably too hot.  Kind of an interesting effect, though.  This is obviously going to take a lot of practice!

The green ones were just green backed by white.

Sorry about the over exposed picture.  Photos of my work are not my strong point!

I have to agree with everyone else - these look great! My experience with decorating molds is that it's really hard to get any kind of exact or precise effect, and that whatever you end up with almost always looks great.

[mostlylana]

I just got off the phone with Chef Derrick Tu Tan Pho from Callebaut in Montreal. I'm so excited! I figured I would post the info here instead of the 'Spray Gun' topic as the info is more relavent here. What I've come away with is there are few hard and fast rules - hence all of the conflicting info...

First, he said thinning with 30% cocoa butter is not quite enough. He recommended 40 - 45%. He said if you want it very dark, use cocoa mass (unsweetened chocolate). He said you don't notice the bitterness when it's a light spray like that.

He said the chocolate/cocoa butter doesn't need to be tempered. What he said is most important is temperature. He said to shake it until it reaches 32C -33C. He said the shaking is putting it into temper. However, he said if you are using a high volume spray gun at 40 - 50 psi and you have a cool room 18 -19C, you can get away with having the chocolate/cocoa butter at 45C because the high velocity of air is tempering the chocolate as it sprays (like an automatic tempering machine). He recommends a spraying distance of 10 inches to give the chocolate time to temper as it flies through the air (my words!). He said if the chocolate is closer to the temper range you can spray closer to the mold. See what I mean by few hard and fast rules...

He also talked about the temperature of the mold before spraying. He said it needs to be warm but not too warm. I know one of the posts here said 27C. He said that is too hot and will cause release problems. He said too cool a mold will also cause release problems. His advice - no warmer than 24C - somewhere between 22C and 24C.

Once you've sprayed your chocolate/cocoa butter it should be left to set up on the counter - not the fridge. He said if you put such a thin layer of cocoa butter in the fridge it sets too fast and creates Beta 6 fat molecules which are very hard. Then when you fill your mold with chocolate to make shells, it doesn't bond well with the spray and you have release problems - the sprayed layer will stick to the mold. He said it should set up between 3 - 5 minutes on the counter just like when you do a temper check. He said if it doesn't set up in that time you haven't been successful. Make sure they are set up completely before molding.

Before you make shells he said it's no problem to leave the sprayed molds for awhile as long as they're at room temp. He said do not use the hair dryer to warm them before molding! He said the hair dryer will melt such a thin layer. He suggested to have your molding chocolate at the high end of the temper range to create a good bond with the sprayed chocolate. He even recommended around 33C for dark AS LONG AS IT'S STILL IN TEMPER - that's key.

And gosh darn it - I forgot to ask him for suggestions about wiping the mold after spraying.

I can't wait to try his suggestions today! I'll report back.

Edited to clarify the last paragraph about molding...

Edited January 27, 2009 by mostlylana (log)

[John DePaula]

Well, thanks for all the great info!

[cmflick]

I just got off the phone with Chef Derrick Tu Tan Pho from Callebaut in Montreal.  I'm so excited!  I figured I would post the info here instead of the 'Spray Gun' topic as the info is more relavent here.  What I've come away with is there are few hard and fast rules - hence all of the conflicting info...

First, he said thinning with 30% cocoa butter is not quite enough.  He recommended 40 - 45%.  He said if you want it very dark, use cocoa mass (unsweetened chocolate).  He said you don't notice the bitterness when it's a light spray like that.

He said the chocolate/cocoa butter doesn't need to be tempered.  What he said is most important is temperature.  He said to shake it until it reaches 32C -33C.  He said the shaking is putting it into temper.  However, he said if you are using a high volume spray gun at 40 - 50 psi and you have a cool room 18 -19C, you can get away with having the chocolate/cocoa butter at 45C because the high velocity of air is tempering the chocolate as it sprays (like an automatic tempering machine).  He recommends a spraying distance of 10 inches to give the chocolate time to temper as it flies through the air (my words!).  He said if the chocolate is closer to the temper range you can spray closer to the mold.  See what I mean by few hard and fast rules...

He also talked about the temperature of the mold before spraying.  He said it needs to be warm but not too warm.  I know one of the posts here said 27C.  He said that is too hot and will cause release problems.  He said too cool a mold will also cause release problems.  His advice - no warmer than 24C - somewhere between 22C and 24C.

Once you've sprayed your chocolate/cocoa butter it should be left to set up on the counter - not the fridge.  He said if you put such a thin layer of cocoa butter in the fridge it sets too fast and creates Beta 6 fat molecules which are very hard.  Then when you fill your mold with chocolate to make shells, it doesn't bond well with the spray and you have release problems - the sprayed layer will stick to the mold.  He said it should set up between 3 - 5 minutes on the counter just like when you do a temper check.  He said if it doesn't set up in that time you haven't been successful.  Make sure they are set up completely before molding.

When you make shells he said it's no problem to leave them for awhile as long as they're at room temp.  He said do not use the hair dryer to warm them before molding!  He said the hair dryer will melt such a thin layer.  He suggested to have your molding chocolate at the high end of the temper range to create a good bond with the sprayed chocolate.  He even recommended around 33C for dark AS LONG AS IT'S STILL IN TEMPER - that's key. 

And gosh darn it - I forgot to ask him for suggestions about wiping the mold after spraying. 

I can't wait to try his suggestions today!  I'll report back.

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Thanks for the tips! I hadn't thought about spray distance making a difference, but it kind of make sense.

Did he say anything about getting air bubbles trapped if the mold is too cold? That seems to be my problem.

Also, did he say anything about how he warms up his molds? When I use a hair dryer, I seem to have problems with getting hot spots in the mold and then trouble with unmolding.

[mostlylana]

Thanks for the tips!  I hadn't thought about spray distance making a difference, but it kind of make sense. 

Did he say anything about getting air bubbles trapped if the mold is too cold?  That seems to be my problem.

Also, did he say anything about how he warms up his molds?  When I use a hair dryer, I seem to have problems with getting hot spots in the mold and then trouble with unmolding.

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No and no. I wonder if you're getting air bubbles because you haven't thinned enough or your cocoa butter is too cool?

I hear what you're saying about warming the molds. I think I'm going to put them in the oven with the oven light on. Derrick would probably use a Mol d'Art melter - but who has an extra one of those sitting around???

[mostlylana]

I just remembered something else he said: the gun needs to stay warm but not too warm. He said he sprays about 10 molds and then heats the gun. He said the gun shouldn't feel hot - if so, you've heated it too much.

[Chocolot]

Thanks for the tips!  I hadn't thought about spray distance making a difference, but it kind of make sense. 

Did he say anything about getting air bubbles trapped if the mold is too cold?  That seems to be my problem.

Also, did he say anything about how he warms up his molds?  When I use a hair dryer, I seem to have problems with getting hot spots in the mold and then trouble with unmolding.

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No and no. I wonder if you're getting air bubbles because you haven't thinned enough or your cocoa butter is too cool?

I hear what you're saying about warming the molds. I think I'm going to put them in the oven with the oven light on. Derrick would probably use a Mol d'Art melter - but who has an extra one of those sitting around???

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Great info. I took my class from Derrick and he is wonderful. The molds in class were chocolate room temp. which seems a bit cool now that I think about it. He kept all his cocoa butters in a low oven so they were always ready for him. He sprays with a detail gun, gravity feed.

[mostlylana]

Yesterday I tried Derrick's advice and didn't have a very successful day. I am just spraying for shine right now. My moulded hearts came out like your bar John - not very shiny. The gun was giving me trouble when I was spraying too - like it was clogging up. Hmmmm. What I did was increase the cocoa butter to 40% and then shook the container until it reached 32C. I didn't put my sprayed molds in the fridge - left them on the counter. They set up within 5 min. I then did my shell molding at the high end of temp. - around 32.5C. It took them forever to release in the fridge and many did not - I had to put them in the freezer.

I'm away until Sun. so no more playing for me right now. I'd love to hear others experiments if you have time to play...

[Kerry Beal]

The same splatter molded in white that I show molded in milk over in the "Ever Sprayed Chocolate with a Paint Sprayer?" thread. I wish you could appreciate the shine and the glow from the pearlized cocoa butters. I'm hoping the new macro lens that I'm waiting for will help with these photos. Dare to dream!

[mostlylana]

I wish you could appreciate the shine and the glow from the pearlized cocoa butters. 

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Kerry, it sounds like you're successful getting a shine. That's great! Care to quickly run through your technique from spraying to unmoulding for us dull people...?? Thanks!

[Kerry Beal]

Kerry, it sounds like you're successful getting a shine.  That's great!  Care to quickly run through your technique from spraying to unmoulding for us dull people...??  Thanks!

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Sure. I have a yogurt maker - cheap, cheap one that I picked up at a thrift store. I put my cocoa butters in there the night before, cover with a couple of kitchen towels to keep the heat in. I seem to recall when I checked the temperature that they were around 45 degrees. I just pour a little into the gravity cup and spray when I'm ready. By the time things get organized the temperature has dropped. If it blocks up, I hit it with the heat gun until it sprays again. If necessary I take the top off the gravity cup and use the heat gun inside the cup. I'm putting very little coloured cocoa butter in at a time.

If possible I wipe the overspray off the mold as I go along. I just keep the molds at room temperature, no trips into the fridge. Around here room temperature is about 22º C.(about 72º F)

When I get around to it (usually not the same day as I spray), I temper some chocolate - trying to keep it was warm as possible then pour the molds. I wait until the shine starts to go off, indicating they are crystallizing, then put them in the fridge for 10 minutes or so, until the chocolate is fully hardened. I fill, back off, wait for crystallization, then back in the fridge for another 10 minutes or so. Once backed off, I make sure the backs are properly scraped - I've found that failure to unmold often relates to poorly scraped molds.

I look at the molds at this point to see if the chocolates have separated from the mold. If not, they may get 2 to 3 minutes in the freezer.

I know there has been some discussion about leaving the chocolates in the molds overnight before unmolding as it seems to give better shine. I'm pretty sure it was Desiderio who noted this - and I've found it to be true. All the chocolates I've done recently have been taken out of the molds as soon as they are separated however.

I know I added 30% cocoa butter to the dark chocolate in the first spatter experiments. But I used it to spray a frozen item only (and it was at about 35º C or so when I did that - it should have been at about 50º C). I didn't actually try to spray that chocolate. In my latest experiments I'm not sure how much cocoa butter I added, and it was pretty cool by the time I got around to spraying it - I actually had to use the heat gun to melt it in the container (since I didn't plug in the yogurt maker when I took it downstairs) - so I'm not sure what the temperature was when I sprayed my frogs and mice - but they came out nice and shiny.

[cmflick]

Kerry, it sounds like you're successful getting a shine.  That's great!  Care to quickly run through your technique from spraying to unmoulding for us dull people...??  Thanks!

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Sure. I have a yogurt maker - cheap, cheap one that I picked up at a thrift store. I put my cocoa butters in there the night before, cover with a couple of kitchen towels to keep the heat in. I seem to recall when I checked the temperature that they were around 45 degrees. I just pour a little into the gravity cup and spray when I'm ready. By the time things get organized the temperature has dropped. If it blocks up, I hit it with the heat gun until it sprays again. If necessary I take the top off the gravity cup and use the heat gun inside the cup. I'm putting very little coloured cocoa butter in at a time.

If possible I wipe the overspray off the mold as I go along. I just keep the molds at room temperature, no trips into the fridge. Around here room temperature is about 22º C.(about 72º F)

When I get around to it (usually not the same day as I spray), I temper some chocolate - trying to keep it was warm as possible then pour the molds. I wait until the shine starts to go off, indicating they are crystallizing, then put them in the fridge for 10 minutes or so, until the chocolate is fully hardened. I fill, back off, wait for crystallization, then back in the fridge for another 10 minutes or so. Once backed off, I make sure the backs are properly scraped - I've found that failure to unmold often relates to poorly scraped molds.

I look at the molds at this point to see if the chocolates have separated from the mold. If not, they may get 2 to 3 minutes in the freezer.

I know there has been some discussion about leaving the chocolates in the molds overnight before unmolding as it seems to give better shine. I'm pretty sure it was Desiderio who noted this - and I've found it to be true. All the chocolates I've done recently have been taken out of the molds as soon as they are separated however.

I know I added 30% cocoa butter to the dark chocolate in the first spatter experiments. But I used it to spray a frozen item only (and it was at about 35º C or so when I did that - it should have been at about 50º C). I didn't actually try to spray that chocolate. In my latest experiments I'm not sure how much cocoa butter I added, and it was pretty cool by the time I got around to spraying it - I actually had to use the heat gun to melt it in the container (since I didn't plug in the yogurt maker when I took it downstairs) - so I'm not sure what the temperature was when I sprayed my frogs and mice - but they came out nice and shiny.

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Thanks for the detailed info, Kerry!

But, of course I have a question now (and some comments). Are you backing off the molds the same day that you fill them, i.e. how long are you allowing for the filling to crystallize? I seem to get "leakage" from the chocolates unless I leave the filling overnight to crystallize before backing off.

I completely agree that failure to scrape well after backing off is a major cause of failure to unmold. I always scrape as I'm backing off and then again when I get them out of the refrigerator. If I have chocolates that don't release from a mold, I usually go back and scrape around them some more until I can get them to release.

I suspect that the relationship between leaving the chocolates in the molds after taking them out of the refrigerator and shine may be related (at least in part) to humidity. I've found that when the house is really dry (like now in the winter), I can unmold the chocolates pretty soon after they come out of the refrigerator and have great shine. When the humidity in the house is higher and I do the same thing, the chocolates are noticeably duller. Of course, either way they taste the same...

[Kerry Beal]

But, of course I have  a question now (and some comments).  Are you backing off the molds the same day that you fill them, i.e. how long are you allowing for the filling to crystallize?  I seem to get "leakage" from the chocolates unless I leave the filling overnight to crystallize before backing off. 

I must confess I rarely leave molds long enough for the filling to crystallize before backing off. I'm essentially lazy and if I've tempered up a bowl of chocolate - I like to finish things off. I work pretty quickly and as long as the filling isn't too liquid I can usually back them off with no problem. When it is more liquid then I usually use my metal spatula to apply just enough chocolate to close off one row at a time. I find as long as I don't put too much weight of chocolate on top of one side of something liquid it doesn't squish up the other side.

[mostlylana]

Interesting humidity observation... hmmmm...

Thank you so much for outlining your procedure Kerry. It really helps. I am quite confused about the chocolate separating from the mold. I am waiting for my SHELLS to do this and often about a third of them don't release. I then pop them into the freezer so they will release and deem it a failure. What I'm wondering is should I go ahead and fill and back off even if not all of the shells have released? Or is this lack of release within - say 10 minutes in the fridge - a sign that something went wrong? I'm worried that if I use these shells then I'll have filled bonbons stuck in the mold! I'm a dipper not a molder so this is new to me. Thanks so much for the help!

[cmflick]

Interesting humidity observation... hmmmm...

Thank you so much for outlining your procedure Kerry.  It really helps.  I am quite confused about the chocolate separating from the mold.  I am waiting for my SHELLS to do this and often about a third of them don't release.  I then pop them into the freezer so they will release and deem it a failure.  What I'm wondering is should I go ahead and fill and back off even if not all of the shells have released?  Or is this lack of release within - say 10 minutes in the fridge - a sign that something went wrong?  I'm worried that if I use these shells then I'll have filled bonbons stuck in the mold!  I'm a dipper not a molder so this is new to me.  Thanks so much for the help!

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I just about always fill the shells before they can be released from the mold. By the time the filling crystallizes and they are backed off and that crystallizes, I get good release. I only seem to have release problems if the chocolate wasn't tempered well in the beginning or if I get hot spots when I try to warm up a mold before making the shell (my molds are stored at about 55F) or I add a filling that is too hot to the shell. I've learned all of these the hard way.

[Darienne]

A question about chocolate shine.

Partner Barbara and I have never made chocolates with that intense shine which the rest of you seem to get. Until this past weekend, we have not owned any polycarbonate molds.

Today, I was dipping candied ginger (thanks, forever, Andie ) into dark chocolate, plus using a stainless dipper to fill a few lollipops for friends. The dipped ginger has some shine, snap, all that good stuff...but no real SHINE!

Then, when I was chipping out the remaining hardened chocolate from the inside of the dipper, I noticed that the shell of the chocolate which touched the steel was incredibly SHINY!

So, dipped things will get only so shiny, you need molds (which Barbara has just purchased from the inimitable Kerry Beal over the weekend) to get the SHINE! Non-porous surfaces I guess.

Why? Please. Something about air?

Edited January 28, 2009 by Darienne (log)

[Kerry Beal]

Interesting humidity observation... hmmmm...

Thank you so much for outlining your procedure Kerry.  It really helps.  I am quite confused about the chocolate separating from the mold.  I am waiting for my SHELLS to do this and often about a third of them don't release.  I then pop them into the freezer so they will release and deem it a failure.  What I'm wondering is should I go ahead and fill and back off even if not all of the shells have released?  Or is this lack of release within - say 10 minutes in the fridge - a sign that something went wrong?  I'm worried that if I use these shells then I'll have filled bonbons stuck in the mold!  I'm a dipper not a molder so this is new to me.  Thanks so much for the help!

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If I'm making cups -ie won't be filled until out of the mold - then I scrape really, really well, refrigerate until I see them separate, twist the mold until I hear that crackly sound - then fish them out with my finger. If they just aren't moving - the freezer for a couple of minutes, twist again, fish again.

If they are to be filled in the mold - then I don't pay any attention to whether they are ready to separate until I've backed them off.

Having to put them in the freezer is a necessary evil at times - but only for 2 or 3 minutes. Too long and condensation becomes an issue.

[Kerry Beal]

A question about chocolate shine.

Partner Barbara and I have never made chocolates with that intense shine which the rest of you seem to get.  Until this past weekend, we have not owned any polycarbonate molds.

Today, I was dipping candied ginger (thanks, forever, Andie ) into dark chocolate, plus using a stainless dipper to fill a few lollipops for friends.  The dipped ginger has some shine, snap, all that good stuff...but no real SHINE! 

Then, when I was chipping out the remaining hardened chocolate from the inside of the dipper,  I noticed that the shell of the chocolate which touched the steel was incredibly SHINY! 

So, dipped things will get only so shiny, you need molds (which Barbara has just purchased from the inimitable Kerry Beal over the weekend) to get the SHINE!  Non-porous surfaces I guess.

Why?  Please.  Something about air?

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Properly tempered chocolate will be glossy on dipped items - but you can only get shine by molding against a smooth surface as you discovered with your dipper.

[mostlylana]

Thank you Kerry and cmflick - you have no idea how helpful that info is! I've been tossing A LOT of shells back into the melter. I was searching for a topic on molding as I'm a new at it but couldn't find one. Anyone know if there is one? I'll pose my question here in the meantime... I did a course with a chocolatier on Bowen Island (Cocoa West for those in the know...) and she taught a 2 shell molding procedure:

1)Fill/ Scrape/ Vibrate

Empty while tapping for 10 sec./ scrape upside down/ turn up and scrape/ vibrate

Place open side down and let set (fridge or counter).

2)Do everything all over again after hitting quickly with the hair dryer except empty for 15 seconds and after approx. 3 minutes on the counter setting - put in fridge for 8 minutes.

Does anyone else do a 2 shell mold? If not, how do you get your shells thick enough? After filling to you let the chocolate sit for a minute or so in the mold before dumping? My chocolate is pretty fluid so just 1 layer is a little too thin.

Thanks again!

[Darienne]

Properly tempered chocolate will be glossy on dipped items - but you can only get shine by molding against a smooth surface as you discovered with your dipper.

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Thanks.

So much to learn, so wonderful learning it. Glad to know another piece of information about chocolate shine.

[Kerry Beal]

Thank you Kerry and cmflick - you have no idea how helpful that info is!  I've been tossing A LOT of shells back into the melter.  I was searching for a topic on molding as I'm a new at it but couldn't find one.  Anyone know if there is one? 

For a list of Pastry and Baking topics go here to start. Go to post #10 and you'll find all the chocolate topics. This is a wonderful resource and I thank gfron1 every time I access this wonderful index.

[mostlylana]

Thanks Kerry that's awesome! Unfortunately I didn't see a lot about molding techniques. Maybe it's time for a new topic... It'll have to wait until I get back from Vancouver. Too much to do but I can't pull myself away from here!

[Kerry Beal]

Thanks Kerry that's awesome!  Unfortunately I didn't see a lot about molding techniques.  Maybe it's time for a new topic...  It'll have to wait until I get back from Vancouver.  Too much to do but I can't pull myself away from here!

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I would swear there is one in there. The molding a transfer mold covers the technique.

[John DePaula]

Here you go:

Demo: Basic molded chocolates and slightly beyond

Demo: Transfer Sheets on Chocolate Bonbons, Using Magnetic Chocolate Molds

[Kerry Beal]

Here you go:

Demo: Basic molded chocolates and slightly beyond

Demo: Transfer Sheets on Chocolate Bonbons, Using Magnetic Chocolate Molds

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Thanks John, I knew it wasn't my imagination. We'll have to ask a mod to put it in the index.

And while watching it, if anyone decides they can't live with out one of those chocovision temperers - let me know - because I know someone who has one for sale.