Questions about France

[Keith Talent]

While at a market, I saw a legume for sale that was new to me. Because I was on a caffeine rush, the simple task of writing the name down didn't occur to me, (at least thats the excuse I'm using). I've googled to no avail, maybe someone here can help. It was a biege/tan multsection thing, looked exactly like a larvae. I asked the vendor about it, sadly my grade 11 French wasn't up to the task of following his info. Anyone know of a legume that fits this description? And if so what's it taste like, hows it used, and can they be sourced in North America?

Three maybe four sections, the sections have the shape and proportions of potatoes, the whole thing is maybe the size of a babies pinky finger. And it did look exactly like a larvae.

Thanks.

[Louisa Chu]

Those sound like crohnes - known in France as Japanese baby artichokes. But I don't know if that's what they really are in Japan.

[Ptipois]

That's very probably crosnes du Japon. An old-fashioned vegetable like cardoon and chou-rave. They taste faintly of artichoke. They have to be wrapped in a cloth with coarse salt and rubbed clean, then washed and braised with a little stock. Very nice but not very digestible.

I've never heard them described as "Japanese baby artichokes" here. They may be called "artichaut chinois" or "artichaut japonais", or "stachys" which is the botanical name. "Crosnes" is the name of the village they were first grown at in France. The grower believed that housewives would never be willing to use their real name so he chose that one instead.

[Bux]

Crosnes is the only name, and the only spelling with which I am familiar.

[Keith Talent]

Thanks, that's definately what they're called, crosnes. Are they really a legume, and are they ever available in North America?

One more produce question; Why do French produce sellers all sell pre-cooked beets?

[Bux]

Thanks, that's definately what they're called, crosnes. Are they really a legume, and are they ever available in North America?

One more produce question; Why do French produce sellers all sell pre-cooked beets?

←

American friends of ours who live in France most of the year have asked me why we don't sell our beets cooked in the US.

As for crosnes, I've had them in restaurants in NY and I believe I've seen them in the Union Square Greenmarket in NY, so they must be grown locally.

[Bux]

From gourmetsleuth.com: Crosnes - tachys sieboldii (chorogi and knotroot) In Japan Chorogi and also referred to as a Chinese Artichoke where it grows wild in Northern China. ... Crosnes as they are called in France were introduced in the late 19th century and named after the village where they were first introduced. Crosnes du Japon was the given name by Paillieux (of Paillieux and Bois, Le Potager d'un curieux, 1882) There's much more at that link.

There's a lot of information on crosnes to be found by googling. Most of it is in France with recipes from salad to garnish for foie gras. Here's a reference that comes from an eGullet Q&A with Marco Canora, chef at Hearth in NYC: ... I couldn't help but laugh when reading your question because the infamous "carrot tips", "the part we normally snip off and throw away", are actually pickled crosnes, a tuber from the mint family, that are sold at the Greenmarket for about three weeks out of the year. I buy up as many as I can and pickle them, so I can use them year-round. There's an odd explanation for how they got their name in France at the end of that thread. I suspect it's not true that they were first brought to Paris by the Prince of Crosnes, but a lovely story.

[Bux]

Any idea why the French prefer their beets pre-cooked? I can understand that its' messy to cook beets in the cramped French kitchen, by the beets are unpeeled and unsliced, which is when the job gets messy.

←

Once again, I think it's safe to assume they ask the opposite question. Why would anyone buy raw beets if you can get them cooked? I have actually seen cooked beets for sale in the US, but my guess is they don't go over big because we're used to buying them raw. I don't know how often one would want raw beets or what recipes might require that. I suspect it would be better to start with raw beets if making borscht and I have one recipe for raw beets as a cold salad dish, but it calls for very young tender beets that are grated. It's from Patricia Wells and reported from France.

[Keith Talent]

Weird that without exception in France they were refered to as Legumes on the price signs, and the one guy I asked about them said they were a legume, but the fact they're tubers makes far more sense, they certainly look like tubers as opposed to a legume.

[Bux]

Weird that without exception in France they were refered to as Legumes on the  price signs, and the one guy I asked about them said they were a legume, but the fact they're tubers makes far more sense, they certainly look like tubers as opposed to a legume.

←

Legumes or legumes? What I mean is that I've always taken the French word legume to mean "vegetable," any kind of vegetable including carrots and cabbages and not necessarily a legume like peas or beans. That may, or may not, be the case. My French is very rudimentry, but the one place it usually serves me fairly well is in a restaurant.

[Keith Talent]

Last weeks New Yorker had a pretty good description of crosnes in the "Tables for two section" as the restaurant being reviewed was featuring them. Was I not so tardy with my reading, I'd have known all about them prior to my post. Syncronicity.

[Ptipois]

Légumes means "vegetables". What you call "legumes" in English are "légumes secs" here (lentils, dried beans, dried peas). When you see crosnes described as "légumes" it only means that the vendor wants the customers to be sure they're buying vegetables and not caterpillars.

[Keith Talent]

Légumes means "vegetables".

←

I should have known that, I think that was covered in grade four.

[bleudauvergne]

This thread made me pick some up recently. Prepared very simply, scrubbed with salt and braised, then served with a sauce mornay. My husband prepared these, I have been bedridden (but getting better).

[kerriar]

Ah ha! - so thats what they are. Thank you bleudauvergne for the photo - they have been served to me unidentified in restaurants. I worked out fairly quickly that they were not larvae but never found out anything more until today.

[Bux]

Ah ha! - so thats what they are. Thank you bleudauvergne for the photo - they have been served to me unidentified in restaurants. I worked out fairly quickly that they were not larvae but never found out anything more until today.

←

Just one of the reasons we can't afford to miss a post on any forum on the site.

[Suzanne F]

Oh, Lucy, those look wonderful! I've never known what to do with them other than scrub and eat raw. (When the chef I worked for brought some in to play with, he never did actually DO anything with them, so I had no model to follow. )

Added my guess is that they are labelled légumes (yes, the generic term for vegetables) in the market just so people WON'T think they are larvae.

Edited December 16, 2004 by Suzanne F (log)

[John Talbott]

Just one of the reasons we can't afford to miss a post on any forum on the site.

By George, I agree, my, that's what they're called; after all these years I have an answer. Question: will I remember it tomorrow?

[nimzo]

If you are in the UK you can grow them at home by ordering from Marshalls in the Spring. They are not very hardy but I have grown them OK here in Berkshire for the last couple of years and it certainly works out cheaper than buying them.

[dawnie2u]

in case you are interested in ordering them, here is a farm in oregon that sells the plant.

http://www.goodwincreekgardens.com/