Dave the Cook's Kitchen Reno On the Cheap

[halland]

Take fifi's idea and add baskets from Pier One or Cost Plus. Instant storage, fill with exotic potatoes and squash from the farmers market.

Hal

[Fat Guy]

Regarding pot racks, there are any number of DIY solutions but the pot rack I have cost $59 and has been providing me with excellent service for years. It hardly seems worth the trouble to cobble one together yourself. A couple of years after I installed the first one, I added a second one right next to it. Here's what it looks like, though mine is black with stainless grid. This place charges $65 -- it's just a catalog photo I found online -- but similar products can be found for a few dollars less.

http://www.stacksandstacks.com/html/696_ce...e-with-grid.htm

In terms of the sideboard/buffet and various workstations and such, my one piece of advice to you is to be patient. Don't think of the kitchen renovation as something you have to complete in October. Don't buy anything that's going to be temporary. Wait until you find the right thing for each place -- long-term you'll be happier that way.

Tiles are a great material for an auxiliary counter, but if you can get a single piece of stone cut to fit -- some sort of remnant that won't cost very much -- that's by far the best surface you're going to find. I remain to be convinced of the wisdom of butcher block as a countertop material.

Even though it's probably the last thing in the world you want to do right now, consider a second coat of paing on the cabinetry.

[maggiethecat]

In terms of the sideboard/buffet and various workstations and such, my one piece of advice to you is to be patient. Don't think of the kitchen renovation as something you have to complete in October. Don't buy anything that's going to be temporary. Wait until you find the right thing for each place -- long-term you'll be happier that way.

←

Amen. Archie, painting the cabinets and situating stuff on a provisional basis--plus laying that floor---hooray, I got a little frisson--will keep you plenty busy for awhile. That perfect sideboard/buffet will sidle into your range of vision in good time. And I'm also with Steven about the potrack: there have been some very cool suggestions here for DIY (loved Priscilla's) but why not shell out the 50-75 bucks? I have every confidence that Dave the Cook will be able to throw together some succulent suppers before everything is as it should be.

And remember: in a New York apartment, as mentioned upthread, you have bags of space. My daughter's new LA apartment has a fab kitchen, but I managed Thanksgiving dinner in her former (tiny) kitchen with a little planning and a lot of clean-as-you-go. And yours isn't as embarrassingly small as Al_Dentes!

[fifi]

Those are really cool pot racks for the price! That place is getting added to my favorites. Thanks FG! I agree. For that price I wouldn't muck with anything else.

[Dave the Cook]

Dave,

Regarding the dressers being too narrow, how about putting two short bookcases , back to back, on one side of the dresser to lengthen it?  Slap this counter 73" x 26" counter on the top and whammo you've got storage and bookcases for cookbooks. 

←

This is a great idea. I was wondering where to put my indispensible reference cookbooks.

Metro shelving: I've loved this stuff since I set hands on my first rack in 1975. (Wait. Did I say that right?) But I don't think it's strong enough to withstand the pounding and whacking to which I'm likely to subject it, and those tiny feet will either bounce around too much, or dig into my new floor. Having said that, I do see a potential use for this stuff.

We keep forgetting about the 7-foot ceiling. A traditional pot rack will have to be very carefully situated to protect my head and preserve what's left of the sightlines in the kitchen. So I'm thinking about an 18" x 24" x 72" metro unit that would go between the wall and the new counter. A shelf could go at the very top, and another mabye 24 inches below that. It would be a two-story pot rack. Is that stupid? I agree that this stuff is easy to find, not just at kitchen outlets, but office furniture liquidators, too. This would cut the table down to five feet, but I'm glad to trade it for better access to pots and pans without fear of head injury. A six-foot piece figures to be pretty hard to get, anyway. And if I look for pieces to work with Hal's bookshelf idea, I've got a lot more flexibility.

I've located two Re-Stores that aren't too far away. I'll check them out just on principle.

I'm still up in the air about the top for the worktable. I know of a couple of stonecutters in the area, and I'll drop by and see if some sort of remnant (or hell, a cistom-cut piece) is a possibility. On the other hand, at the price, Hal's birch top is almost disposable.

That picture shows the cabinets after priming. It's already clear that this was the right thing to do. I think they'll need two coats of paint. I'll do the first in the morning.

The red/white concept is taking hold. First, it will work nicely with the pale yellow walls. Second, it gives me an aesthetic hook. For instance, those flowered ceramic accent tiles on the backsplash (they're blurry, but you can see them every few columns in a single horizontal row all the way down the wall) have got to go. I can replace them with a few bright red tiles pretty easily. The drawers and cabinet doors don't have pulls, but now I know what to do about that -- no pulls strikes me as unsanitary, anyway. I'm really liking this combination of utilitarian industrial and retro diner. Fifi (or anyone), what's your policy on finishing/sealing VCT? I called a guy that sells it, and he said five or six coats of good old floor wax. Is that better than polyurethane?

It also happens that the new toaster (purchased separately, without my input) is red. Another omen.

[fifi]

Don't give up on the InterMetro shelving because of the floor. I had the same concern because of the CVT flooring that will extend under that section that is under the island and will also be in the pantry. I was told that they make end caps for the uprights that spread the load, though I haven't actually gone looking for them yet. BTW... That would be something to look out for if you use it for book cases as well.

Also, I have seen different "weights" of the InterMetro. Some of the stuff in the retail stores looks pretty flimsy. Some of it looks like knock-offs. The stuff I have seen at the restaurant supply where I shop (they have used it all over the place for display) looks pretty stout.

Uuuhhh... I didn't do anything to my tile except mop it. I really didn't care if it was shiny or not. (But then, I never worried about ring-around-the-collar either. ) If you want shine, just use those "wax" type things you get at the store. My housekeeper did that a couple of times. My reaction was... eh. Check with one of the tile manufactrers. Don't even THINK about polyurethane. It probably isn't compatible and once it gets worn it is a MAJOR job to renew.

Love the red tile idea for the backsplash. This is looking good in my minds eye. The yellow wall, red and white, a few blue accessories... wowser.

[Priscilla]

Yay for Metro. I love Metro. I think that sounds like a great idea, D the C. You can hardly go wrong with Metro.

Course, I'm biased -- my Metro shelf unit has been with me in every kitchen since the 1980s. I continue to love it so much I added in a little sibling for it in our present home, and outfitted them both in matching big-ass locking casters.

A bonafide classic, and, works. All kindsa stuff can hang on a Metro unit, from all kindsa hooks. And yes, as Fifi points out, it does come in different gauges and there are knockoffs around.

[tejon]

The cabinets look so much better painted, even if it's just primer at this point. I bet the room is already visibly brighter. Now you have me jonesing to get down and paint mine, since they look very close to your original picture.

[Fat Guy]

Dave, are you proposing to hack out individual tiles and replace them? Maybe you have a great plan for how to do this but, having seen the collateral damage you can do to bathroom tiling when you try to remove and replace one tile, it's not something I'd ever attempt with kitchen tiles that will be in your line of sight. You know, if you have a steady hand, you can just paint a tile -- it works quite well for a few years so long as that tile isn't in the path of water or direct impact (like in the shower or on the floor).

I've just been taking some measurements of how far different pots hang down assuming the pot rack is mounted flush with the ceiling. Here's what I think you can do given the ceiling height you have. I'm not sure the double-decker pot rack solution you've proposed is going to be sufficient. And for me, pot racks are totally essential as kitchen storage and organization tools -- I marvel at how many people do everything else right in their kitchens yet fail to have pot racks and therefore need to devote incredible quantities of drawer and cabinet space to pots and have to bend over and clank around every time they need to cook anything. So my suggestion is that you do three things: first, get one of the racks I'm talking about, mount it flush with the ceiling above your work table, and use it mostly for your smaller pots and essential utensils -- this is where you can keep your most heavily utilized items, the ones you need to be able to reach for without stepping away from the stove; second, install pegboard on the wall behind that workstation at the bottom-right of the diagram so you're not constantly opening and closing drawers every time you need basic tools and so that you can hang at least some of your lids (unfortunately you lost the ability to store lids above the pot rack when you mount it flush, but you can't afford six inches or even four, although with the chain mounting system you can always experiment and adjust later); third, install a pot bar -- a length of 1/4" pipe secured with straps along the entire length of the right-hand wall.

[Richard Kilgore]

As an alternative to the pegboard idea of Steven's, you might consider a wire grid for hanging small, frequently used tools such as peelers, microplanes, measuring spoons, etc. A grid system may also work on your doors or on the walls of your laundry room/space. I have a grid on a wall above my washer that I use for hanging a China Cap, a couple of large colanders and such.

[Fat Guy]

Good point, Richard. Please take the pegboard suggestion as my advocacy for any kind of system that gives you the ability to position a whole bunch of hooks on the wall and move them around as needed. I've seen at least half a dozen variants that are more attractive (and more expensive) than pegboard, although I'm not sure any of them actually work better than pegboard. The specific pegboard suggestion, however, came up because of the tool-case plan, which makes that area of the kitchen very shop-like already. I thought it might be a good aesthetic match, even though standing alone pegboard is kind of ugly. By the way you could paint the piece of pegboard red . . .

[marie-louise]

Great job on the cabinets!!! This thread is now a classic for anyone who is depressed because they can't afford to rip their kitchen down to the studs!

I like the idea of metro shelves. I have seen what you are describing as making a type of potrack (I think it is a display at a kitchen store where I shop) and it looks and works great. With a matching worktable, your kitchen will have a finished look.

With your low ceiling, I'd resist the tempation to hang anything over your worktable. I think that will make the room feel claustrophobic, and I sense you are getting close to having enough space for everything without it. I have a tremendous amount of storage under my worktable.

Ignore the tiles. They look ugly, I can see why you want to get rid of them, but once all your stuff is in there you will never notice them. You can cover up a few of them with a strategically-placed utensil crock or two (or perhaps a new Kitchen Aid mixer?) Another idea I once used was to drill screws partway into the wall and arrange decorative plates on the backsplash (I had a funny set of Guy Buffet waiters.) You probably have a great platter or enamel tray or something you could prop up over a couple more. Put up a shallow shelf over the two over the sink & they're gone.

I want to move your refrigerator. It is in the right place to be useful, but the fact that it is so much deeper than the cabinets bugs me. Any chance it would fit next to those pantry cabinets (#C on your drawing)? The area near the sink would feel much more open with something the same depth as the counter there.

I wish someone would come along and help you with that ceiling (although FG is right, different bulbs make a huge difference.) Is the ceiling something that can be painted? Where is that ceiling fan in relation to where you are planning to put your worktable?

I also have a wall of metal grids in my pantry (it is on the wall you can't see in the picture, to the right of the doorway.) You can hang a lot of stuff on them, and they don't take much depth.

Edited October 10, 2004 by marie-louise (log)

[fifi]

I am sure FG is right about the tiles. I am pretty sure that they make a special paint for tile and other porcelain surfaces. You could check with some of those guys that "refinish" old bathtubs and such. With some judicious masking, that could come out really nice.

But then marie-louise's tactic with plates and such is really more my style... you know... lazy.

Expanding on Richard's suggestion, once you have a place to hang things, there are all number of wire baskets and other do-hickies available to hold things. That is what intrigues me about the Metro stuff. They have a ton of accessories. I finally noticed that a couple of years ago. I think I was in Sur La Table browsing around. They had used the Metro stuff as store furniture and I noticed all of the little things they had hanging off of the ends of the shelves to hold small things. It might be worth going to a store like that to see what is available. However, I would wait until you have been in the kitchen long enough to get to know what is a storage problem. Then you can go looking for a solution.

Red peg board is starting to sound good.

Please tell me that you were able to snag those tiles. I am in a nervous sweat that a find like that will walk off before you get your hands on them.

[Richard Kilgore]

Yes. The red peg board started to sound more like it to me given the red tool cabinet. But what about painting the wall red and then installing a white grid on top of it.

Boy, the white cabinets make all the difference in the world, don't they.

This thread made me take another look at what I could do for a pot rack. I have a large oval hanging copper rack that will not work in my present space, but there is a high area over a set of double doors that would allow a pot bar of some type with enough room to hang large skillets, saute pans and stock pots. Hmmmm. Thanks.

[Dave the Cook]

I think any of these grid systems will work equally well as wall organizers. To me, the most appealing thing about pegboard as a solution (especially if it's painted) is the homage to Julia Child and her green wall o' holes. It's not a commentary that everyone will understand, but I like that sort of thing. Against the yellow wall, though, I think white is the correct choice for color. (Good idea, Richard, but after stripping the wallpaper, I'm done with that wall.)

I'm with Steven on the need for a pot rack. I've been living without one for several months and it makes me crazy. The question is where to put it to that makes the most of the space without compromising utility more than absolutely necessary, and that's what drove the rack solution. Of course, mouting the rack against the wall would have pretty much the same effect. The other question is where to put the lids. One idea I had was to use these wall-mounted vertical wire racks. Comments?

I've replaced individual tiles before. There is a technique to it. But I'll look into painting, too. On and effort/reward basis, painting might make more sense.

I'm off to paint the cabinets, and I'll take some pictures of the ceiling and make some measurements, like how big that lighting grid is, and where the fan is in relation to the work and eating spaces.

Thanks again, everyone. This has been really helpful.

Fifi, I bought the tiles on the spot.

[fifi]

Fifi, I bought the tiles on the spot.

←

WHEW! I feel much better now.

[andiesenji]

I'm with Steven on the need for a pot rack. I've been living without one for several months and it makes me crazy. The question is where to put it to that makes the most of the space without compromising utility more than absolutely necessary, and that's what drove the rack solution. Of course, mouting the rack against the wall would have pretty much the same effect. The other question is where to put the lids. One idea I had was to use these wall-mounted vertical wire racks. Comments?

Unless you have really lightweight lids, they will deform. We have similar things at my office and they will not hold very thick or heavy patient folders without bending a bit.

There are lid racks that can be mounted on a wall or inside a cabinet door, under a shelf or set on a shelf or inside a cabinet, that are sturdy vinyl coated heavy wire. I have several which are graduated from small at one end to large at the other. And they are inexpensive.

here

I also have a couple of these lid racks from IKEA - I can't find them on the IKEA site but here is one that is on ebay for the next hour or so. ikea lid rack.

Edited October 10, 2004 by andiesenji (log)

[andiesenji]

More IKEA lid racks listed on ebay

[Priscilla]

I keep flattish lids, graduated by size, on a shelf of my Metro unit ... they slot in so economically perpendicularly, like records in an old-fashioned record rack.

[maggiethecat]

WHEW! I feel much better now.

←

So do I! I'm also jealous.

I believe I'm in Steven's camp on the chip and replace v. painting the ceramic tile issue. Easy is better.

And speaking of painting... why not slap a couple of coats on the ceiling fan? Another red accent, or even that butter yellow. And are you handy enough to move the fan? I think it might be great over the kitchen table: no one should hit his head on it there, and it will be farther away from the stove. I try to avoid any possible extra contact for ambient flying grease.

[lovebenton0]

Good point, Richard. Please take the pegboard suggestion as my advocacy for any kind of system that gives you the ability to position a whole bunch of hooks on the wall and move them around as needed. I've seen at least half a dozen variants that are more attractive (and more expensive) than pegboard, although I'm not sure any of them actually work better than pegboard. The specific pegboard suggestion, however, came up because of the tool-case plan, which makes that area of the kitchen very shop-like already. I thought it might be a good aesthetic match, even though standing alone pegboard is kind of ugly. By the way you could paint the piece of pegboard red . . .

←

I've done this before. Had a full size sheet in a kitchen several years; I painted it with good results. I would suggest that you prime pegboard (if not pre-primed) and paint with a gloss. The objects you hang will tend to transfer metal marks eventually and the gloss is much easier for upkeep/cleaning.

Kitchen is looking better already, Dave -- and this thread is a great resource.

Anticipating more pics.

[Richard Kilgore]

Dave -- Here's a link to a Chef's Catalogue Sale, including Pot Racks. Relatively inexpensive and may have more of the industrial llok. Scroll down the page.

[Dave the Cook]

The cabinets are done:

This is also a good illustration of the next problem, which is the lighting. The main lighting comes from above a suspended aluminum grid. Here's a closeup with the translucent panel removed:

and another:

The rest of the ambient light comes from a 42" ceiling fan:

Here's how they lay out over the floorplan:

As indicated on the layout, the grid has a total of eight four-foot fluorescent tubes. THis representa formidable amount of light.

Given the proposed floorplan, do I need to add more light? If I do, where and how?

Speaking of the floorplan, I might have found my worktable:

It's 48 inches wide, 18 inches deep, and 35 inches high. And it's free.

[patti]

Speaking of the floorplan, I might have found my worktable:

It's 48 inches wide, 18 inches deep, and 35 inches high. And it's free.

←

Oooh, the price is right, the size is good, and there's storage, to boot. Great score! Do you have any changes in mind for the piece?

The cabinet paint job sure did the trick for sprucing things up. The kitchen is really looking good.

Edited October 13, 2004 by patti (log)

[jschyun]

I guess I'm late to the party, and you've already put the doors back on, but I like the look of brushed steel knobs on white painted cabinetry. they're pretty cheap at home depot (I checked a long time ago however)

--plus you don't have to clean your cabinets as much

Edited October 13, 2004 by jschyun (log)