Jewish cooking .. ever want to try making?

bloviatrix · September 26, 2004

With all due respect to the SF gate (which in truth I do not know) and to Claudia Roden (for whom I have enormous respect), let me call to mind that the issue here is not at all "Jewish food" but the food of those Jews who originated in the shtetls (small and generally poor peasant villages) and cities of Central and Eastern Europe.
Giving dishes such as gefilte fish, cholent (with or without kishke), kugel, tzimmis and pirogen, sweet and sour beef stew and knishes an exclusivity as to claims on representing the Jewish kitchen is to ignore the fact that those Jews of Sepharadic origin had a very different but no less "Jewish" cuisine. To such Jews their "Jewish kitchen" does not smell of gefilte fish but of sicj treats sd chraime, couscous, fattoush (bread salad), sardines wrapped in vine leaves, Circassian chicken, sambusak, shisliks and kebabs.
None of which of course is to "knock" that kitchen that has come to be associated with Yiddish. I'm am absolute sucker for it and no matter how large the first portion, will never refuse a second helping of cholent (with kishke, dammit, with!!!)But then again, who would I be if I refused a second portion of couscous royale?
Best,
Rogov
←

Actually, part of the reason why Roden's book is such a good reference is that it's divided into two sections -- one on Ashkenaz food and the other on Sephardic. I think the reason that sephardic cooking gets overlooked in the American mainstream press is because most American Jews are of European descent.

bloviatrix · September 26, 2004

BTW, if anyone is interested in stuffed cabbage (geviltike kroyt), I'll be glad to share my mom's fabulous recipe. It's time consuming but easy.

Gifted Gourmet · September 26, 2004

Actually, part of the reason why Roden's book is such a good reference is that it's divided into two sections -- one on Ashkenaz food and the other on Sephardic.
←

Which is precisely what I bought it for ... I only was familiar with the Ashkenzic cuisine but was thoroughly entranced by the new 'education' Roden imparted on Sephardic cuisine ...

Pan · September 26, 2004

Of course, there are other Jewish communities that are neither Ashkenazic nor Sephardic, including the Italkim (Italian Jews) whose foods Edda Servi Machlin has documented and various Indian Jewish communities, such as the Calcutta Jewish cuisine documented in Copeland Marks' The Varied Kitchens of India. There are also the Ethiopian, Yemenite, Buhkarin, and Iranian Jews, etc. I wonder what kind of cuisine is typical of the small Singaporean Jewish community.

markk · September 26, 2004

BTW, if anyone is interested in stuffed cabbage (geviltike kroyt), I'll be glad to share my mom's fabulous recipe. It's time consuming but easy.
←

I am. Please do share. Thanks.

markk · September 26, 2004

Not about leaving anyone out ... in my zeal to be so very politically correct and "inclusive", I made my title reflect the all embracing love of Jewish culinary arts, markk ...
and I did not grow up with these foods but the guy I married did and I tried to "recreate" his grandmother's home .. in so doing, I surprised even myself! And what a pleasure it has been to stuff my kishkes with all manner of Judaic eastern European nosherai!
Thanks for your great posts and the flanken picture ... but, alas, missing the ever essential kreplach! I once spent an entire day learning the proper way to make kreplach only to have them "wolfied down" in a few moments of rapturous gluttony ...
←

Thank YOU for starting such a wonderful post!

Some years ago, while David Rosengarten's show "Taste" (which I loved) was still on the Food Network, he used to talk about growing up Jewish in Brooklyn (I grew up in Queens at about the same time) - and I related to everything that he talked about regarding food. So I wrote to him to suggest that the Food Network find a remaining Jewish Grandmother and give her a show so that she could teach us all how to make all the traditional Jewish dishes that we love and crave. Alas, nothing came of it.

But I collect Jewish Cookbooks, and I love this thread. Thanks again.

Gifted Gourmet · September 26, 2004

here maybe, Bloviatrix? :rolleyes:

Gifted Gourmet · September 26, 2004

Thank YOU for starting such a wonderful post!
But I collect Jewish Cookbooks, and I love this thread. Thanks again.
←

The pleasure was, is, and always, will be mine, markk!

I think some things simply beg to be ruminated about, mused over, and even, deconstructed .... like a fine wine, savor your culinary learning and enjoy it down to the very dregs in the bottom of your glass of lifelong food education ... :wink:

bloviatrix · September 26, 2004

Ultimately, much of what we consider "jewish cooking" is very similar to what non-jews in the same communities ate, only it was adapted in order to adhere to the laws of Kashruth.

The adaptation goes both ways -- we tend to think of carciofi, artichokes, as typical Italian, and yet it was the Jews who introduced the vegetable to Italy.

markk · September 26, 2004

Ultimately, much of what we consider "jewish cooking" is very similar to what non-jews in the same communities ate, only it was adapted in order to adhere to the laws of Kashruth.
The adaptation goes both ways -- we tend to think of carciofi, artichokes, as typical Italian, and yet it was the Jews who introduced the vegetable to Italy.
←

This is very true indeed.

I used to spend a lot of time in Rome, where just about every restaurant serves the dish called, in fact, "Carciofi alla Giudea". Strangely, I never got around to dining at any of the "Jewish" Italian restaurants (like Piperno) in the Jewish Quarter, though. But being a wise guy, I always used to joke to people about having done so and having eaten the best "Kreplach Parmesan" of my life!

markk · September 26, 2004

I think some things simply beg to be ruminated about, mused over, and even, deconstructed .... like a fine wine, savor your culinary learning and enjoy it down to the very dregs in the bottom of your glass of lifelong food education ...
←

And as you know, sometimes after a big Jewish meal, you have no choice but to "ruminate" and "muse" over it all through the night. As they say, that's why they invented Seltzer!"

Edited September 26, 2004 by markk (log)

laniloa · September 27, 2004

I grew up thinking of Ashkenazic dishes as the mainstays of extended family gaherings whether it was a holiday or not. I think of many of these as comfort food and when I'm stressed or under the weather, making matzo ball soup is the only remedy. The comfort comes not only from eating the soup, but going through the process I remember watching as a little girl and having my home smell that fabulous smell.

Over the last few years I've come into greater contact with Sephardic dishes and am fascinated by them. The idea of having a Morroccan tangine for Shabbos dinner would make my bubbe's head explode -- ok, maybe that is an exaggeration but she did look really confused when I tried to make it for her.

Comfort Me · September 27, 2004

With all due respect to the SF gate (which in truth I do not know) and to Claudia Roden (for whom I have enormous respect), let me call to mind that the issue here is not at all "Jewish food" but the food of those Jews who originated in the shtetls (small and generally poor peasant villages) and cities of Central and Eastern Europe.
Giving dishes such as gefilte fish, cholent (with or without kishke), kugel, tzimmis and pirogen, sweet and sour beef stew and knishes an exclusivity as to claims on representing the Jewish kitchen is to ignore the fact that those Jews of Sepharadic origin had a very different but no less "Jewish" cuisine. To such Jews their "Jewish kitchen" does not smell of gefilte fish but of sicj treats sd chraime, couscous, fattoush (bread salad), sardines wrapped in vine leaves, Circassian chicken, sambusak, shisliks and kebabs.
None of which of course is to "knock" that kitchen that has come to be associated with Yiddish. I'm am absolute sucker for it and no matter how large the first portion, will never refuse a second helping of cholent (with kishke, dammit, with!!!)But then again, who would I be if I refused a second portion of couscous royale?
Best,
Rogov
←

I agree that the discussion has been entirely Ashkenazic in content. I would suggest, for a well-rounded view of Jewish food, a stroll through Joan Nathan's "The Foods of ISrael Today". I have actually worn one copy out and am on my second! WOnderful!

Mottmott · September 29, 2004

Who knows what the yen for Jewish food among self-identifying non-Jews may mean? Perhaps some genetic memory?

When doing some geneological research, I met up with many people who found surprises of all sorts, very often people and branches who dropped "off" the family tree, typically accompanied by geographical migration or emotional alienation from their family. Many instances involve changes of name, religion, even race. And it seems to me that it's precisely the "drop outs" who are most likely to have made changes from whatever the rest of their family is. Indeed, in some families, marrying outside one's religion or race or coming out of the closet may lead to being banned or disinherited, etc. After a few generations all knowledge of this may disappear.

Funnily enough, some prominent people have recently discovered here-to-fore unknown Jewish ancestry (Madeleine Albright, John Kerry). Perhaps we can inquire into their culinary preferences before they found out to see whether they liked lox and bagels, kugel, kereplach, etc.

The flaw in this exploration would be, as someone suggested, most Jewish food is essentially tweaked foods from the countries where they historically lived. Most of the Jews I know mostly eat whatever most people in our society at large does, though I confess to not knowing any who are orthodox.

Just out of curiousity, what is "Jewish" food among those from India or China where Jewish communities have been established a long time ago? How different would it be from that of others in their area?

Pan · September 29, 2004

Just out of curiousity, what is "Jewish" food among those from India or China where Jewish communities have been established a long time ago? How different would it be from that of others in their area?
←

No yogurt in Indian Jewish chicken dishes and such, eggs used as a thickening agent in Calcutta Jewish cooking, at any rate.

zaelic · September 29, 2004

Chopped Liver hint: my Romanian Grandmother made it with olive oil instead of chicken fat (shmaltz). My family has a history of living to old age. This may be why. Also, add lots of black pepper.

Incidentally, a lot of what American Ashkenazic Jews consider to be everyday food was pretty rare in East Europe. You didn't just walk into a kosher butcher shop and see a tray of chicken livers, as you might in Brooklyn. You bought a live chicken and the shochet slaughtered it for you, producing exactly one chicken liver. Add a heap of onions and hard boiled eggs and you had enough "gehakte leber" for a family to enjoy on bread as a treat.

I gave a 95 year old Romanian Yiddish writer a gift of smoked salmon some years ago and he replied "Lox? I have heard about this!" This man and his wife generally dined on tea, cookies and buttered bread, with a meat soup for Friday night.

There used to be a tradition of going to "Romanian" restuarants like Moskowitz and Lupowitz after attending Yiddish theater on Second Ave in the Lower East side. The food was what a Romanian immigrant Jew would dream of eating, not anything one ever ate in Romania. Check out Moskowitz and Lupowitz' menu Steak a la Kretchma???

reesek · September 29, 2004

Wolfie Cohen's Rascal House in Miami Beach - taken unfortunately, after the kreplach were devoured. This was just how Grandma Ethel used to make it, and for anybody craving all these foods, a trip to Rascal House should be your very next order of business. They make it all, and they make it well.
←

Markk, bless you for reminding me about Rascal House. My dad's parents retired in Miami and we always went to Rascal House for breakfast and fought over the cheese danish. Great memories.

Knishes. I ache to make divine meat knishes for my dad. (He's anti the potato ones - and they're all I can find online.) If anyone has a recipe - or a book they can recommend...you'd be making a 75 year old darling very happy.

Al_Dente · September 29, 2004

I have a grandfather who was Jewish but converted to Catholicism, so I guess, loosely speaking, I'm partly Jewish. I was never exposed to any of the culture or foods as a kid though. But in the last few years, my "waspy" best friend married into a Jewish family. I was the best man at their wedding, and I'm the Godfather (I'm trying to recall the Jewish term-- Kvatter? Sandak?) to their twin boys. Even the first funeral I ever went to was in a Synagogue a couple of years ago. So of course with those religious events came the FOOD. Gefilte fish aside, I've loved everything I've tried and with the help of many of you at eGullet, I made the brisket for my best friend's family during Passover (Goys Gone Wild), and also bought the Claudia Roden book (Cookbook Advice) on your recommendations as a gift for his wife. I've perused this book a number of times and one of these days I'm going to host a big blowout with those recipes at their house.

Now I'm livin in sin with my Jewish girlfriend. My best friend recently called me to say "welcome to the tribe" :laugh: . I've been over to her parent's house for Rosh Hashanah and Passover and helped prepare meals with her serious cook mother. Being around these Jewish families for many meals has been a wonderful experience. The food is such an integral part of these celebrations and it's always prepared with such care and love. And, to me, that's what a love of food is all about.

bloviatrix · September 29, 2004

But in the last few years, my "waspy" best friend married into a Jewish family. I was the best man at their wedding, and I'm the Godfather (I'm trying to recall the Jewish term-- Kvatter? Sandak?) to their twin boys.
←

You got it right with the first word -- Kvatter.

howard88 · September 29, 2004

I use both beef liver and chicken liver for chopped liver.

When time permits I use an old hand grinder. When time does

not permit I will use the food

processor carefully , only on pulse for the proper consistency.

Naturally carmelized onions and chicken fat.

I will also add chopped egg and sometimes a boiled potato.

And always some sweet and chopped raw onion.

Got to say, I love mine the most.

I am always on the lookout for the definitive Kishke recipe.

Gifted Gourmet · September 29, 2004

Knishes. I ache to make divine meat knishes for my dad. (He's anti the potato ones - and they're all I can find online.) If anyone has a recipe - or a book they can recommend...you'd be making a 75 year old darling very happy.
←

meat knish filling: Jennie Grossinger

more knishes: 2 doughs, 4 fillings

overview from Claudia Roden .. many fillings here!

This will keep you busy for quite a while .. hope it is what you were looking for ... :wink: