The Food Saver/Vacuum Sealer Topic: 2001-2010

[Magictofu]

Chris, this is exactly the type of information I was looking for since I do want to vaccuum-seal liquids (sauces and stews). Thanks.

[dougal]

What makes the difference between a decent machine and a piece of junk?

When shopping, how can you tell?

This is (quite literally) valuable information for those who have not previously bought such a device, and would prefer to avoid their first purchase being relegated to the status of "a learning experience".

As a very recent graduate from junk to Foodsaver, I can offer my observations, but I do so in the hope that others would have more and better info for the checklist.

1/ Avoid machines that use a (heated) wire to 'seal' the bag and use the same heated wire to cut sections off a roll of bag material. The best such machines can do is to create a fragile 'line-seal' along the extreme edge of the bag.

2/ You need to create a sealed strip with a measurable width (more like an 1/8th of an inch, than 1/64th or less) and not exactly at the edge. A little bit of "bag waste" outside the seal is a positive asset and not a negative.

3/ And such a wide strip of seal can only be made by a heated bar (or approximation thereof), not a narrow wire.

If the same element both cuts and seals, it can do, at best, only one of them well.

This "wire" (over a strip of braid) narrow line-sealing (and roll-cutting) design is used by my (rubbish, but cheap second-hand) Krups "Electronic Vacupack" and the cheapie recently offered in the UK by Netto. I believe that it is also employed by the cheap (~£20/$40) machines recently offered by Lidl and Tchibo, and most (maybe all) of the similarly cheap machines.

An "accessory connector" and an optional manual "enough sucking" cancellation before sealing feature are clearly good to have, as is a powerful sucking action -- but effective, robust, basic vacuum-sealing is the primary function.

I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that those machines that claim to work with plain (untextured) bags, actually don't work very well at all. Is that a fair generalisation?

BTW, I picked up the ('international model' - its 240v thankfully) Foodsaver V475, brand new, plus some bags, a roll (cut it to length by hand!), accessory tube, canister and one bottle stopper for under $50 via eBay UK.

It's sealing strip is 12" long and it melts a strip at least 1/16" wide. It pumps bags of dry stuff down to a nicely 'hard pack' and the welded seals seem nicely robust. "Bargin" - as so many eBay sellers claim!

[Chris Amirault]

In a previous post, I mentioned the following:

The distance from the face of the machine to the vacuum well in which the front edge of the bag sits is crucial, because that distance determines how much extra space you need at the top of the bag so that the vacuum works. On my machine, you can't get the item being sealed right up to the sealing line either, which creates more wasted bag. The distance on the Kenmore creates about 3-4" of extra bag above the seal, which can be pretty annoying when you're sealing 4 oz of bacon.

This is hard to explain so please click on the above link for an illustration. Basically, you want minimal distance between the machine face and the base of vacuum well to allow for minimal bag loss between the seal and the edge.

I'd also say that you want a vacuum well that's easy to clean.

[Magictofu]

1/ Avoid machines that use a (heated) wire to 'seal' the bag and use the same heated wire to cut sections off a roll of bag material. The best such machines can do is to create a fragile 'line-seal' along the extreme edge of the bag.

This exactly the type of machine my mom was using 20 years ago and it is exactly what I want to avoid. Not only the seal was terrible but the bags themselves were very fragile.

[dougal]

[*]The distance from the face of the machine to the vacuum well in which the front edge of the bag sits is crucial, because that distance determines how much extra space you need at the top of the bag so that the vacuum works. On my machine, you can't get the item being sealed right up to the sealing line either, which creates more wasted bag. The distance on the Kenmore creates about 3-4" of extra bag above the seal, which can be pretty annoying when you're sealing 4 oz of bacon.

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I took a photo to illustrate this tonight:

<snip for space>

Within the sealed component of the bag there's about an inch below the seal and above the bacon -- no problem. But look at the extra bag above the seal. Is that typical on most vacuum sealers?

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Chris, I don't think it is typical.

On my V475 you could have a minimum of 1/4" to a max of 1.5" of waste bag above the seal, depending on how carefully you positioned the bag.

On the Krups its zero, and that really doesn't work at all well.

[slkinsey]

I'd also say that you want a vacuum well that's easy to clean.

This is one area (among many) where I think vacuum sealers like these are a significant improvement over FoodSaver machines. The vacuum well is both deep and wide. But, more to the point, because the top of the machine is clear, you can see when liquid starts to go into the vacuum chamber and hit the "manual seal" button.

[dougal]

I'd also say that you want a vacuum well that's easy to clean.

This is one area (among many) where I think vacuum sealers like these are a significant improvement over FoodSaver machines. ...

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I don't doubt that its better. Likely much better.

However, it does cost 8x what I paid and the V475 so far seems to be (while that wretched Krups simply ain't) adequate for my humble needs for a while.

I really like total, maximal overkill and bulletproof tools built to last a lifetime or two. But sadly its not something I can indulge in routinely!

[MikeHartnett]

Does anyone know anything about the V3840?  I'm looking at this package, and wondering if it works as well as the ones that lie flat...

http://www.jardenstore.com/product.aspx?bi...pid=5500&cid=79

I'll be using it mostly for sealing curing charcuterie products, and occasionally for sous vide.

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Hi Mike!

I bought myself one of these about 2 months ago. Living in Australia, we basically have a choice between 2 vacuum sealers. Sunbeam or crappy ebay ones. I tried an ebay one first and threw it in the trash after the second use. Don't even go there.

I then figured that there are so many in the USA and so many people swear by Foodsavers that I would give it a go. So, I purchased it from the site you linked and also included enough accessories, spare bags, bag rolls and other goodies to last me a life time. I can tell you that I am EXTREMELY please with it. It looks great, stores easily in the cupboard, and best of all, makes air tight seals that work a treat for sousvide and frozen goods.

Sure I haven't tried any of the other brands, but I don't need to - this one works great. The only honest downside I can mention is the first few times I had some trouble feeding the bag into the vacuum channel properly.

Hope that helps!

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Thanks! I completely missed this.

[nickrey]

Does anyone know anything about the V3840?  I'm looking at this package, and wondering if it works as well as the ones that lie flat...

http://www.jardenstore.com/product.aspx?bi...pid=5500&cid=79

I'll be using it mostly for sealing curing charcuterie products, and occasionally for sous vide.

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Hi Mike!

I bought myself one of these about 2 months ago. Living in Australia, we basically have a choice between 2 vacuum sealers. Sunbeam or crappy ebay ones. I tried an ebay one first and threw it in the trash after the second use. Don't even go there.

I then figured that there are so many in the USA and so many people swear by Foodsavers that I would give it a go. So, I purchased it from the site you linked and also included enough accessories, spare bags, bag rolls and other goodies to last me a life time. I can tell you that I am EXTREMELY please with it. It looks great, stores easily in the cupboard, and best of all, makes air tight seals that work a treat for sousvide and frozen goods.

Sure I haven't tried any of the other brands, but I don't need to - this one works great. The only honest downside I can mention is the first few times I had some trouble feeding the bag into the vacuum channel properly.

Hope that helps!

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Hi,

I read the accompanying documentation on the product and can't see if it has variable voltage. Can it take 240 V directly or do you use a transformer?

Thanks

[sote23]

If you're thinking of purchasing a FoodSaver, you really should consider one of these.  I eventually bought one to replace my FoodSaver.  Much stronger vacuum & easier to use.

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I'll second that. I just bought this machine the weston pro 2300. It is very high quality and very well built. Another qreat feature is that it comes with a laminated part list, giving a drawing and part number for every single part on the machine, so if something breaks, you can just purchase the part that is broken. Try that with foodsaver or all the other cheaply made machines out there, once they break you have to buy another machine. Yes, it costs more than the cheaply made machines, but I would rather buy a quality machine once, than many many cheaply made machines.

Luis

Edited August 7, 2008 by sote23 (log)

[Magictofu]

This discussion takes an interesting turn... I was thinking about the usual foodsaver but it seems some of you recommend against it. I doubt I would ever be willing to invest 400$ for a vaccum sealer considering that I intend to use it for the needs of my family only.

However, this brings question about the reliability of foodsaver products. Any thoughts on that?

[sote23]

This discussion takes an interesting turn... I was thinking about the usual foodsaver but it seems some of you recommend against it. I doubt I would ever be willing to invest 400$ for a vaccum sealer considering that I intend to use it for the needs of my family only.

However, this brings question about the reliability of foodsaver products. Any thoughts on that?

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I've never owned a foodsaver so I can't speak from experience on them, but I've owned similar machines. They all use the same philosphy in building disposable cheap machines. This is my fourth vacuum sealer. I got fed up with the machines dying and having to go out and buy a new one. It's not just a question of reliability, but also of quality. What ever happened to companies caring about quality. Not to mention, clogging our landfills more with these cheap machines. If you add up how many new vacuum sealers you have to go buy to replace the ones that die, I bet your not far off from $400.

Luis

[Chris Amirault]

I know several people who have owned their Tilia FoodSavers for decades and use them all the time.

[Pam R]

I'd also say that you want a vacuum well that's easy to clean.

This is one area (among many) where I think vacuum sealers like these are a significant improvement over FoodSaver machines. The vacuum well is both deep and wide. But, more to the point, because the top of the machine is clear, you can see when liquid starts to go into the vacuum chamber and hit the "manual seal" button.

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This model looks quite similar to one that I've been looking at (actually have one on order) from Cabela's. Their site says it's a Cabela's model, but I seem to remember the person at my local store saying it's not. Anybody know anything about the machine?

[Dave the Cook]

I'd also say that you want a vacuum well that's easy to clean.

This is one area (among many) where I think vacuum sealers like these are a significant improvement over FoodSaver machines. The vacuum well is both deep and wide. But, more to the point, because the top of the machine is clear, you can see when liquid starts to go into the vacuum chamber and hit the "manual seal" button.

←

This model looks quite similar to one that I've been looking at (actually have one on order) from Cabela's. Their site says it's a Cabela's model, but I seem to remember the person at my local store saying it's not. Anybody know anything about the machine?

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I don't personally know anything about the machine, but having watched the two videos, and having used a FoodSaver V2460 for about a year, I can't imagine any significant difference in utility or maintenance between it and the Pro 2300. The channel is wider and deeper, but you'll notice that it doesn't get very dirty, and that's the case with my FoodSaver as well, so that's a wash. Maybe if you vacuum a lot of very wet stuff, the channel would matter, but I don't think so, since both machines rely on your attention for best results. The 16-inch width of the Pro might come in handy in commercial applications.

[sote23]

I'd also say that you want a vacuum well that's easy to clean.

This is one area (among many) where I think vacuum sealers like these are a significant improvement over FoodSaver machines. The vacuum well is both deep and wide. But, more to the point, because the top of the machine is clear, you can see when liquid starts to go into the vacuum chamber and hit the "manual seal" button.

←

This model looks quite similar to one that I've been looking at (actually have one on order) from Cabela's. Their site says it's a Cabela's model, but I seem to remember the person at my local store saying it's not. Anybody know anything about the machine?

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Your right it does look quite similar. I noticed that as well. Looks like the controls are a bit different though.

[mtigges]

I've never owned a foodsaver so I can't speak from experience on them, but I've owned similar machines. They all use the same philosphy in building disposable cheap machines. This is my fourth vacuum sealer.

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I agree with you in general that quality of consumer grade tools has degraded over the years. I have no idea if that is true of the Tilia machines or not though. What I can say is that when my mother bought hers around twenty five years ago she was either lucky that she got a good one, or their quality was high. It's still going strong.

She stopped using it just because the kids moved away and she stopped growing so much to freeze all winter. I inherited it, mainly to pack the hops that I grow. But I use it year round now for meat I purchase, and veggies (mostly peas) that I grow.

The machines worked differently then than they do now. Mine has a flat nozzle that must be inserted in the bag through which the pump sucks the air out of the bag. This doesn't in practice work quite as well as the new methods, especially for wide bags.

I've had to maintain the machine. The original foam gasket on the pressure bar got too stiff to adequately mold around the nozzle to generate a sufficient seal. I simply removed it and replaced it with foam intended for putting under a pick up truck canopy to cushion it against the bed sides. Works perfectly.

Don't knock the Tilia. I wish my other tools were as durable. It is second only to my Shimpo RK2. Tilia (at least then) manufactures a quality tool.

[slkinsey]

However, this brings question about the reliability of foodsaver products. Any thoughts on that?

My FoodSaver started to get wonky after about a year. It would evacuate small bags just fine, but with larger bags the bag would hardly deflate and then the machine would seal the bag. This created much bag waste and multiple vacuum-and-seal attempts. I have also found FoodSaver machines generally not so great at vacuuming out bags with a large "tail" (which is useful when you want to open and re-seal the bag many times -- for example, I have a huge vacuum bag full of dried porcini).

I'd also say that you want a vacuum well that's easy to clean.

This is one area (among many) where I think vacuum sealers like these are a significant improvement over FoodSaver machines. The vacuum well is both deep and wide. But, more to the point, because the top of the machine is clear, you can see when liquid starts to go into the vacuum chamber and hit the "manual seal" button.

This model looks quite similar to one that I've been looking at (actually have one on order) from Cabela's. Their site says it's a Cabela's model, but I seem to remember the person at my local store saying it's not. Anybody know anything about the machine?

I don't personally know anything about the machine, but having watched the two videos, and having used a FoodSaver V2460 for about a year, I can't imagine any significant difference in utility or maintenance between it and the Pro 2300. The channel is wider and deeper, but you'll notice that it doesn't get very dirty, and that's the case with my FoodSaver as well, so that's a wash. Maybe if you vacuum a lot of very wet stuff, the channel would matter, but I don't think so, since both machines rely on your attention for best results. The 16-inch width of the Pro might come in handy in commercial applications.

I don't know that ease of cleaning would be a major incentive for picking one of the "semipro" machines (although they are certainly easier to clean).

With respect to sealing wet foods, or bags that contain liquid, the semipro machines have a major advantage. You are correct that doing it with either machine is a matter of paying attention. But the clear top of the semipro machines makes it significantly easier to see what is happening. I regularly seal bags containing liquid now, whereas with the FoodSaver I had to freeze the liquid.

I still think FoodSavers are good starter machines. But after mine started losing its oomph far sooner than I believed it should have, I decided to go with a more powerful machine. It's better than anything from FoodSaver in a multitude of ways. Whether it's worth 2.3 times more than the latest from FoodSaver...? Depends on the user and the budget, I guess.

[infernooo]

Does anyone know anything about the V3840?  I'm looking at this package, and wondering if it works as well as the ones that lie flat...

http://www.jardenstore.com/product.aspx?bi...pid=5500&cid=79

I'll be using it mostly for sealing curing charcuterie products, and occasionally for sous vide.

←

Hi Mike!

I bought myself one of these about 2 months ago. Living in Australia, we basically have a choice between 2 vacuum sealers. Sunbeam or crappy ebay ones. I tried an ebay one first and threw it in the trash after the second use. Don't even go there.

I then figured that there are so many in the USA and so many people swear by Foodsavers that I would give it a go. So, I purchased it from the site you linked and also included enough accessories, spare bags, bag rolls and other goodies to last me a life time. I can tell you that I am EXTREMELY please with it. It looks great, stores easily in the cupboard, and best of all, makes air tight seals that work a treat for sousvide and frozen goods.

Sure I haven't tried any of the other brands, but I don't need to - this one works great. The only honest downside I can mention is the first few times I had some trouble feeding the bag into the vacuum channel properly.

Hope that helps!

←

Hi,

I read the accompanying documentation on the product and can't see if it has variable voltage. Can it take 240 V directly or do you use a transformer?

Thanks

←

Got myself a high amp step down transformer and a USA power board for all my international electronics :-). Runs my commercial strength kitchenaid mixer, zojurushi rice cooker, foodsaver vacuum machine + more!

Edited August 9, 2008 by infernooo (log)

[Magictofu]

I did buy a tilia foodsaver recently and so far I am pleased with it. It is a bit too automated for my taste though.

Anyone has any experience with these bags?

http://www.vacsealers.com/meshbags.html

http://www.agribags.com/vacuum_bags_pg1.html

[Pam R]

I order my bags from vacsealers.com. It's a Canadian site, but your order would be shipped to you from the US.

Good, standard 3-layer bags. Good service. I'd prefer the bags with the strip of mesh, rather than the whole sheet, but I'm happy with them.

[Magictofu]

Good, standard 3-layer bags. Good service.  I'd prefer the bags with the strip of mesh, rather than the whole sheet, but I'm happy with them.

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Sorry to ask newbie questions:

- What do you mean by 3-layer bags?

- What is that thing with the strip of mesh?

- How do these compare to the tilia bags?

[Octaveman]

more newbie questions....

And how do these compare to the typical Food Saver rolls you get at Costco for example? I'm assuming the bags linked above can be used with pretty much any model of Foodsaver?

[dougal]

Good, standard 3-layer bags. Good service.  I'd prefer the bags with the strip of mesh, rather than the whole sheet, but I'm happy with them.

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Sorry to ask newbie questions:

- What do you mean by 3-layer bags?

- What is that thing with the strip of mesh?

- How do these compare to the tilia bags?

←

I can maybe help with some of those.

"Proper" vac pack bags are actually rather more than "plastic bags" made from just a thin sheet of (traditionally) polythene ("PE").

The better bag material is actually a laminate, so that different layers can do different jobs, rather than having one layer that must be a compromise on the various desired properties. For example one layer would be expected to be particularly 'gas-tight', (polythene isn't very).

I think there are two uses of mesh. From the link above to "meshbags" - quote "The full Nylon Mesh Liner acts as "Bone Guard" also and makes these patented bags & rolls stronger".

A second thing is that a bit of mesh, on the inside below the seal, should act as a bit of a liquid trap. I've heard of people putting a strip of kitchen paper towel inside their bags to stop a rush of liquid from wetting the area that's just about to be sealed...

[slkinsey]

For edge-sealing machines, the mesh also acts as a channel for the last bit of air that would be difficult to evacuate otherwise.