L'Ecole des Chefs

[pcloguda]

 I have been gifted with a week as a kitchen intern/stagiaire at L'Ecole des Chefs/Relais Gourmands. Gift came w. brochure and chef's white jacket, thoroughly intimidating me! Has anyone done this program?

Where to chose??? Some possibilities

-Paris w. Alain Dutournier or at Les Ambassadeurs

-regions  Meneau/Vezelay, Lameloise/Chagny, Boyer/Rheims

or chose closer to home, NYC Daniel or Jean-Georges

There are also other locations in France.  

[Bux]

I've not done anything like this although I am familiar with the program. Perhaps you'll get a first hand report. In the meantime, where have you eaten and what are your interests? I assume this gift is from someone who knows you well and that this is something you look forward to doing. What is it that appeals most to you and where have you eaten? Have you been to any of these restaurants? How did you narrow it down to these six? I've been in four of the dining rooms and one of the kitchens mentioned. Is there anything those of us who haven't been in the program can offer to help you make up your mind? I assume, that you are not thinking of beginning a professional career as a cook. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Let me also make a request. When you finish, please tell us about the week.

[Bux]

I see from your other posts that you have experience traveling and dining in France. I trust my earlier response here was not too simple minded. You probably have the experience to make your decision which is going to be very subjective. My guess is that most people would opt for the chance to work in a kitchen in France, all things equal, but that shouldn't be a fore gone conclusion. I wonder if the location even matters as if you put in a full day, you're not likely going out on the town.

[magnolia]

Wow!!! Considering the fierce competition for stages in just those very kitchens, you must be pretty accomplished already. In fact I just met a young Australian with eight years' experience in some of Sydney's top kitchens who was marching himself around Paris with a CV and letters of recommendation, trying to get a stage.  I just read "Burgundy Stars" by Bill Echikson, well worth reading if you haven't already..The book is 5-6 years old but speaks highly of Marc Meneau, and Vezelay would be a nice place to spend a week. I'd stay out of any of JG's places unless you get a guarantee that he's on hand, as he has a multi-location empire right now and probably travels from place to place.  

[Bux]

I suspect a lot of readers here are not familiar with L'Ecole des Chefs/Relais Gourmands. It offers access to some of the great kitchens in the world to serious and dedicated cooks. As the name implies, it's meant to be a learning experience. It's not really aimed at professionals entering or already in the profession. There is a tuition invovled, although I understand it's not unheard of for a professional to pay for the opportunity to work for a short time in a multistarred French kitchen. The participating restaurants are all part of the international Relais Gourmands group. L'Ecole des Chefs/Relais Gourmands has a web site with more information on the program. http://www.leschefs.com/

Although I have no real knowledge of Paula's cooking or dining experience, I expect that she's looking for a report from someone who's already done a stage with the program rather than information about the chefs' food and restaurants. Knowledge of the food and dining room may not offer an indication of how interesting and valuable an experience it would be to be in the kitchen.

Many chefs have more than one restaurant and many who have only one restaurant are often traveling around the world making guest appearances as well. While you can often learn more from the sous-chef, (Loiseau, who's the chef featured in Echikson's Burgundy Stars introduces his sous-chef to the author saying that he cooks Loiseau better than I do.) I'd expect the program to offer a slot of time when the chef is there. It's worth checking before making a commitment. I suppose at lease a rudimentry knowledge of the local language would help as well. Even if the chef's speak English, it would be frustrating to miss all of the banter in the kitchen. As is I'm told that without a working knowledge of English, French and Spanish, you're not safe from being the butt of one group's jokes while you are in the kitchen.

[pcloguda]

Bux is correct to surmise that I hoped to find someone who had partaken of this program. Of course, I also wrote to have my fears about this solo adventure by a less-than-accomplished non-french speaking neophyte soothed. Alas, no luck! Magnolia, I do love to cook but am not accomplished. It is a tuitioned school program and possibly part marketing promo by Relais &Chateau. Young chefs who are seeking a stage in prominent kitchens are in a completely different category.

I hope that even with all of my disclaimers and concerns that it turns out to be a fun and informative experience. Perhaps it will be better if I don't comprehend when I am the butt of jokes!!! Lately, I have read some positive comments re: Daniel Boulud's teaching people...but otherwise, am limited to dining and clueless re: back of the house. Can't figure out how to research this unless someone out there has had experience.

[Bux]

Steven Shaw, aka Fat Guy, has spent a week in the kitchen at Gramercy Tavern and lived to tell about it. In fact he's written about it on his site. To some extent he was a lay person, but treated the stage as a professional assignment. Thus his treatment was not quite like that faced by a young cook, but also not what you should expect either. From the little I've read (articles have appeared in the popular press--I recall one in the NY Times) you should expect to be well treated and not hazed as a young apprentice. I imagine the colorful kitchen dialogs continue around you, but unless you understand vernacular French and Spanish you may miss the worst (best?) of it. I also expect that it's part marketing and that every participating restaurant expects you to leave speaking well of the chef and his restaurant. That should allay some fears. My suspicion is that it will be exciting.

[pcloguda]

Although this is a heavily and charmingly marketed program it is proving tedious /difficult to make a definitive connection.The USA office does not posess a 'master' list of which kitchens accept english speaking students, which chefs run 2 vs 5 day programs and which destinations offer reduced rate boarding! Additionally, some touted chefs [Dutournier & G Blanc"] are "taking a year off".

[Rosie]

Ouch!!!  What are you going to do?

[Bux]

For a a heavily and charmingly marketed program, it seems to be a bit low on service between the original marketing and the final classes.

[PaulaJ]

I can spend the week at either Lameloise's

in Chagny or Boyer's in Reims. I'm finding

it really difficult to decide. Does anyone have

any perscpective to add?

[Andy Lynes]

Paula, I didn't respond to this earlier because I wasn't sure what exactly it was you were doing.

I have worked in a number of kitchens in the UK and one each in France and America. I have simlpy contacted the chef dierctly and said that I was a keen amateur cook possibly interested in taking up the profession of chef and wanted some work experience. On each occasions, I have had a great time, learnt an awful lot in a very short period of time, and been worked like a dog. However, I have never had the language barrier to overcome. French, as you will know is the international language of the kitchen, so don't expect too much English to be spoken. In all likelihood, you will be shown a simple task, like some veg prep, pointed to a huge great crate of whatever it is and told to get on with it.

You may be allowed to assist during lunch and dinner service with easy plating up tasks, or you may still be prepping veg. What you must do is keep your head up and see as much of what is going on as possible.

As for which kitchen you should choose, I really can't advise. I would go with however is doing the most interesting stuff at the moment and which location seems most attractive. At the end of the day, it's a bit if a crap shoot because you will most probably be working with a sous chef or chef de partie for the majority of time you are there.

I would say don't worry about it, you will have a fantastic time. Team work in a kitchen is absolutely crucial and is in their blood. I have never been mistreated in a kitchen, although the enviroment is hard and there is pressure, even on a guest in the kitchen.  

Send me a message if you want to know more and maybe we can have a real time conversation about this.

[magnolia]

I can spend the week at either Lameloise's

in Chagny or Boyer's in Reims. I'm finding

it really difficult to decide. Does anyone have

any perscpective to add?

Wow! What a choice.  Do it by location - which would you rather visit, Reims or Chagny?

Failing that, eeny meeny always works for me.

Either way you are bound to have a great time! And if I recall you said you had concerns about language issues -  these kitchens are accustomed to having people from all over the map.  Please keep a diary and let us know how it goes!

PS I also seem to recall that Marc Meneau was one of the choices...I heard a rumour that he's been tapped for something in Paris so it might be worth finding out - if he's the exec chef at one of the places you're considering - whether he'll be making an appearance at all if that's important to you.

[cabrales]

I can spend the week at either Lameloise's

in Chagny or Boyer's in Reims.

One key point obviously is to ask L'Ecole what a person working at each restaurant would eat, especially given the 39-hour rule and some restaurants responding to it by, among other things, asking employees to eat at home.  

If the decision were mine, I would pick Boyer, but I like Boyer's food better than Lameloise's anyhow (the latter is good, though).  Boyer's hotel/restaurant is much more grand than Lameloise's.  I have toured both kitchens -- Lameloise's has fewer, but larger, room areas where you might be able to witness Lameloise in action more.  Lameloise does not typically tour the dining room; Boyer has a habit of smoozing quite a bit there.  Both chefs have active spouses, but both seemed alright.  Also, if you are allowed to enjoy the grounds during the week, Boyer has beautiful expanses of grass and trees behind Les Crayeres.  There is even a tennis court, with nearby stone benches where one can just sit and have quiet time.  The Rheims location is within an easy 2-hour train ride of Paris (direct).  Also, the champagne houses located in Rheims include: Ruinart, Veuve Cliquot, Pommery (right opposite Boyer, with a free visit easily arrangeable by the restaurant/hotel; beautiful carvings on some of the caves, including of the young woman depicted on the Louise high end line's label) and Tattinger.  Of course, Epernay is within easy reach, offering M&C.  If you are interested in architecture and/or French history, Rheims also has an old cathedral where French kings used to be coronated, with stunning Marc Chagall blue stain glass windows.

That being said, Lameloise is in Burgundy  ;)

[Bux]

I hope you'll have lots to report and post after you return. It would be interesting to know what, if any, accommodations come with the standard tuition. Even more interesting might be a description of "family" meals at a three star restaurant.

[PaulaJ]

Thanks everyone. Your notes mirror many of my concerns.

I had a difficult time deciding as I,also, think Boyer's facility

and cuisine are very fine. However, I'm in the process of trying

to arrange my time with Lameloise,whose cuisine I also admire.

He seems to do some cooking and I hope to see him in operation.

I thought that a smaller kitchen might work better for me. I will

keep a journal and let you know all that happens, including the

staff meals! I would assume that they are rather casual, brewed

dishes du jour; I doubt that I will starve in the heart of Burgundy.

 Magnolia, do you have any more info on Meneau? It's difficult to

imagine him leaving his homestead in Vezelay. He offers only 2 day

programs and no english is spoken, so his kitchen would not

work for me. He does offer discounted accomodations. Lameloise

does not...and I never inquired re; Boyer.  

Again, thanks to all. Paula

[cabrales]

I'm in the process of trying to arrange my time with Lameloise,whose cuisine I also admire. He seems to do some cooking and I hope to see him in operation.  I thought that a smaller kitchen might work better for me.

Paula -- You'll likely also be happy with Lameloise, which is located in Burgundy (you need to a car to get around when you are not working!). However, note than when you refer to a "smaller kitchen", Lameloise may not necessarily have a smaller kitchen (in terms of physical size) than Boyer.  The main part of Lameloise's kitchen is a very large, single room, with what appeared to be quite modern features (not being able to cook, I wasn't in a particularly good position to judge). Boyer's kitchen is a more a set of rooms; more angular. If, by size you mean people making up the cuisinier team, I would not be in a position to assess. PS: When you take a meal there, consider ordering the pigeonneau en vessie (pigeonneau in a cute pig's bladder) -- presented in two services.

On one Sunday when I was at Lameloise, there was a local produce and clothing market.  Cheese, sausage, fruit and bread stalls. One vendor with a huge roasting device on which were positioned 8-10 chicken.

[PaulaJ]

A Christmas gift of a week in this program sounded exciting. However, it is exceedingly difficult to get scheduled as the

office does not maintain a comprehensive list of programs available. First there was the good news that Alain Dutournier spoke english, ff his not participating at this time. Then I chose Marc Meneau ff it being 'discovered' that he only did two day programs. Then Jacques Lameoise was a firm choice---ff the incorrect day being given for starting his program. For the past month Gerard Boyer was the firm choice. My date was June 12th. Today I received notification that Mr. Boyer would be absent June 12th and 13th! While I hardly expected to be his siamese twin, this is a program that advertises one-on-one with a celebrity chef. I would have expected better from the Relais & Chateaux group which heavily promotes this program.

 How would you process this 'change'? Changing dates [airline tickets,etc] is not an attractive option at this point and of course, there is no guarantee that the next round of

attempts would be any different.  ???

[Peter B Wolf]

Paula, I would get in touch with their offices and ask them to explain or comment about your particular situation. Here is their direct contact site:

   http://www.relaischateaux.com/site/us/asketcom.htm

[PaulaJ]

Peter, Thank you for your idea. But I am dealing with the

US rep of the R&C program who simply states that 'Mr. Boyer

has scheduled a short trip on the 12th and 13th of June and will join me on the 14th.' She then suggests that Mr. Boyer has double duty as a owner and chef and probably is only in the kitchen during service. I am not familiar enough with restaurants to understand if this is always the case.........

but a 40% of the time absence does not seem to be in the spirit of the program's advertisements.

[magnolia]

At this point it sounds as if you have tried all reasonable avenues. Of course the goal is to schedule time in a restaurant of your choice and have some fun and enjoy the programme, etc. without any of the hassle or having to complain.

BUT - if ultimately you feel you have been as accommodating as possible (and you should not have to be) and this is turning out to be more of a hassle than something to look forward to, if the rep you mentioned, and the org's office as Peter suggested, don't yield any satisfaction 1) decide what you want - a refund or a guaranteed spot in a restaurant where the chef you want to work with is in residence - guaranteed or all your money back including airfare etc. or whatever 2) write a letter to The New YorkTimes travel section and/or one of the travel magazines' "ombudsman" sections (I can't recall which one has this).  You might include in this the fact that you have discovered just how little time the 'name' chefs spend in their own kitchens (why not cc the restaurant sections of the newspapers too for good measure? That's probably a lot mor bad publicity than they want...

This should do the trick pretty fast. But you need to call the shots now, i.e. you must have an idea of what would satisfy you.

[cabrales]

She then suggests that Mr. Boyer has double duty as a owner and chef and probably is only in the kitchen during service.

For the two meals I have taken at Boyer, Boyer was talking with guests a great deal when the latter were taking their aperatifs in the outdoor area facing the expanse of back lawn at Les Crayeres. Also, he toured the dining room for much of the service, sometimes chatting more than 3-5 minutes with each table. It appeared to me that, on those occasions at least (note I began each meal relatively late), Boyer couldn't have been cooking that much and it was likely T Voisin (sic) that was overseeing the service.

Do members have input on Boyer's touring of tables during service? If Boyer tours as much as I think he does, PaulaJ's interactions with him might be even more limited.  ???

[PaulaJ]

I had penned a short note to L'Ecole, noting my disappointment with the program to date and my

surprise that it didn't meet Relais & Chateaux's

promotion.

 I received a reply, stating that this was not the

usual experience...an apology...and the offer of going forward

to try and make it an excellent experience or a full refund.

Whatever I chose to do, I found this response gracious

and reasonable...and give them credit for it.

[magnolia]

This is gracious and appropriate, and it sounds like they are serious about fuilfilling your expectations - hope it works out so you actually get to take advantage of the gift rather than ask for a refund. Keep us posted!

[cabrales]

PaulaJ -- If you don't mind my asking, what is the price of the program (please specify the number of days) that would be refunded to you?