Why, oh why?

[Lreda]

As I've done before, I'm asking the egullet crew to answer a few questions about their dining habits. Chain restaurants are swallowing up Mom & Pop, family and demented individials such as myself. My fellow owners have been sitting around drinking and debating the value of what we do and why we go the extra yard when it's not supported. Is it the convience of in and out eating. Is it there's 5 places to choose from the minute the hunger pangs start.

A lot of you all have dined with me. Most I know and some I don't. How do you think I could improve my restaurant. I've read what you enjoy about other places, what could make An American Grill better?

Enjoy, Lou

P.S. I'm f**ked, Just left myself REALLY open. Oh well, gotta go out with a bang.

[Rosie]

Poor Lou. Did you have a bad night? No recommendations for your restaurant. You serve great food and service has always been exemplary. Your steak sandwich is the best I have ever had and I love your seven(?) or five (?) spiced tuna.

[Lreda]

No, iit was busy last night, great for a Monday in July. I'm just trying to stay competitive within my area. Next Monday, I'm starting a Bar Menu with "Otto Style" pizzas, empinada's, spring rolls, etc. My bar business is good but I'm trying to improve it. If I get complacent, I won't last long. It's rough out there.

[Curlz]

Lou,

I've been to your place twice, and can honestly say that both experiences were terrific, so I'll try to speak to the topic in general. I'm also saying this without knowing what kind of marketing/advertising you and your fellow owners are

doing.

My experience, and that of most of my friends (single, coupled, families--the whole mix) is that when we find a place with good food, good service and reasonable prices/value, we keep going back. I know that sounds simple, and I think you're already doing it, but I don't think that all independent owners think about that combo for their patrons. I have a few friends who will go to the same restaurant once a week because they like the food/atmosphere/service so much! In your case, I'd say keep doing what you're doing. The only thing I can think of is that you all need to put the word out that you are a good value for higher quality food than these salt-filled, processed food chains. Have you considered getting a few restaurants in the same area together for a group night/coupon/special? Maybe if people hear that your places are good, that would be incentive to get them there the first time? I may be talking out my *ss...what do you think?

I'm certainly going to poll my friends for other thoughts.

Curlz

[Rosie]

I disagree about coupons. To me it means trouble. If I go someplace and get a discount I don't want to pay full price the next time. I dislike the Entertainment book because many restaurants in there are in trouble financially. Lou--get a good PR firm. They get the word out.

[Rachel Perlow]

I wasn't sure if your post was really about two different issues. Fiirst, is there anything you can do to improve the restaurant, which I think you are on the right track (great specials, no discounts). The other issue is how can he drum up more and repeat business. Like Rosie said, you need to take every possible opportunity to generate positive PR.

[Curlz]

I completely agree re: coupons--but sadly, some sort of 'sale'/promotion is probably what is going to draw people who aren't patronizing these places. Remember that most of us on eG don't fit in the mold of the general consumer...you have to think about why people go to the other places...easy, (in some cases) cheaper, consistent (i.e., you can always wait for 45 mins at Applebee's! bleah). I just think that if owners like Lou got someone in the door once and they saw what a real restaurant is like, they might come back. Seems to me that every local restaurateur has his/her regular customers--it's the constant flow of new folks that they need!

Lou, the other thought I have is based on your location, and without knowing who your fellow drinkers er...owners are--have you done any work with local corporate entities, concierges, etc.? There is certainly a dearth of business out in Mo Co...if you can get in with some of those folks, perhaps when people are entertaining clients or employees, they'd come up to AAG instead of running to the local hotel restaurant or some other standby?

I do agree with Rosie that you need some P.R. over advertising, but I think you have to keep that lowest common denominator in mind in terms of the advertising piece. Sadly, the specials are what might get you some more first-timers.

[scott123]

Lou, I haven't dined at your restaurant, but I do have some observations on dining in the area. I think ambience/atmosphere is attracting more customers than great food is. Every day I drive past Callaloo in Morristown, the place is overflowing with people, who, I can guarantee you, are not there for the food.

It seems like the places with the biggest draw have some sort of gimmick. Either it's fun/festive like callaloo or sleek and exclusive like pazzo pazzo. Good food isn't rewarded with hoards of clientele. Bells & whistles generate the buzz.

[tommy]

Next Monday, I'm starting a Bar Menu with "Otto Style" pizzas,

lou, if you offer a pizza with lardo i promise i'll drive out there at least once a month.

as far as the rest of your question, i think it comes back to the discussion we've had a few times: your audience out there expects a certain thing and probably doesn't want to be challenged all that much. that said, i think there is a trend recently of younger (and presumably more adventurous) people moving out of places like Bergen county and more out your way. so maybe the tide is changing.

[Rosie]

Lou--Also, you new a larger sign in the mall where your restaurant is located. It's easy to pass it by.

[Wiener]

My only complaint was the location . I did pass you by the first time I ate there in the Spring. Have to agree with Rosie about the "sign issue". I have been two your restaurant three times and truely loved it. Starting with the dishes (literally) and ending with the desserts , I had three postive experiences. If I lived closer, I would be a regular.

[jsfein]

I have never dined at your restaurant and don't live nearby, so I can't comment on what more you can do. What I can share is one family's dining habits that frequently leans towards the chain restaurants. I have 3 children under the age of 6. Wife & I work full time. We dine out as a family about once per week, and dine out alone about once per month. That's approximately 5-6 dinners at a restaurant per month, not including the dinners we take in. When we eat out as a family we tend to go to a chain or something of its equivalent for various reasons. Price is a factor. Typically, I'm paying $5-8 less per adult entree and $2-5 less per kids entree (if a non-chain restaurant even offers a kids menu). In total, my average bill at a chain will be about $25 less at a chain than a non-chain. I know that I'm sacrificing quality for this savings, but there are other benefits. If one of my kids is having an "off" night, it usually will not impact other diners as much at a chain than at a non-chain. I can usually get in and out faster at a chain than non-chain which is critical with my aged kids. And, although I don't eat out to keep my kids entertained, the chains tend to do a good job of this with crayons and other distractions. In recent months, the chains have also finally started to offer more healthy eating options for children.

The dinner we "treat" ourselves to without the kids once per month when the babysitter comes I would imagine is of a restaurant along the lines of your own. We tend to spend between $100-$150 on these meals and like to try places we haven't been to. Of the dozen or so of these meals we eat per year, there is usually no more than 1 or 2 repeat restaurants.

I don't know whether my family's dining habits are typical of others, but based upon the volume of families I see at the chains I tend to think that they are. I am not sure how the non-chains can compete for the dining dollars of families like mine without certain sacrifices.

[Rosie]

Congratulations Lou on winning for Best New American Restaurant--North in the 2004 New Jersey Monthly Readers' Choice Awards.

[Lreda]

Rosie, new sign coming up, it's being made now, it should be up by next week.

Listen all, when I started this post my intention, perhaps not very well written, was to gauge why people go to chains and jsfein's post was exactly what I was looking for. A little insight as to why they would choose chains and what chains they like.

I believe a PR firm is in my future and I know exactly who I'd go with. I followed what they've done since I met with them 18 months ago and admire what they accomplished for thir clients.

Tommy, let me work on the Lardo pizza. (Which I've had).

Scott's comments also were right on the money but I've never been a whistles and bells kinda guy.

Anyway, thanks for the imput, that's why I enjoy this forum, it allows me to vent a little.

[Curlz]

Congratulations Lou on winning for Best New American Restaurant--North in the 2004 New Jersey Monthly Readers' Choice Awards.

So now he's not allowed to complain for a full year, right?!?

Sorry, Lou--gotta bust on you before I say WOW--congratulations on a VERY well-deserved award!!! I hope you're packed full of people who have never tried your restaurant before! As long as you'll still have room for the rest of us, that is...

KUDOS to you and your staff!

[Casey]

Great idea for the new sign--even though I drive by all the time on the way to visit family (soon to stop as they are moving!), I always think you're lost as the first thing that catches my eye is Curly Stone. Hopefully, a new sign can help.

From the PR standpoint, I know from experience that you and your staff do a fabulous job (and I've planned a lot of these functions) at group parties. There might be an opportunity to use this option to promote quietly through the corporate connection. Offer incentives to HR folks and event planners to have small to medium size parties there. You introduce a lot of people to your place at once which hopefully results in return customers.

On the chain perspective, let me offer a different one, from someone classified as a DINK (dual income, no kids). If my husband and I are looking to do something other than take out at the last minute after work, I often don't consider a nicer restaurant as I worry that they'll be full and I don't have a reservation, so I go (dare I admit it) to a Bennigan's or a local thai or chinese place. I'd much rather go someplace like AAG in my area, but if that's a misconception about not being able to "get in", other people may make the same assumption we do. I've been out of the PR business too long (and I never did restaurants) to know what the answer is, but a good firm might be able to help with that.

Casey

[irongut]

Where is Lou's restaurant located?

[Rosie]

An American Grill, 246 Rt 10, Randolph

Phone: 973-442-9311

More info here: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...+American+Grill

And here: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...+American+Grill

There are more links but this will give you some info.

[glenn]

Lou, maybe you should write that book and forget about the restaurant.

[robyn]

I have never dined at your restaurant and don't live nearby, so I can't comment on what more you can do.  What I can share is one family's dining habits that frequently leans towards the chain restaurants... 

I don't live in the neighborhood (or the state) either - but I think your analysis is on target. I'll add another factor - the housing boom. I assume NJ is pretty expensive. In the neighborhood where I live (in Florida) - the average house costs about $700-800,000 (range from about $400,000 to $3 million - values are *way* up in the last 5 years). We have 30 houses on our block. My husband is 59. He thought he was the second oldest guy on the block until the other guy died last year and we found out he was 56 . I'd say the average husband/wife here are in their early 40's (many in late 30's). Wife doesn't work. They have 2-3 kids. They have 2 or 3 mortgages and little equity in their houses. They probably spend more than 40% of their incomes on their mortgage payments. Their furniture (if they buy any) is from Rooms to Go.

In a nutshell - they don't have much money to spend on food. Which is why the low end chain places are packed with them (and I see the pizza delivery trucks so frequently in driveways). We do have some higher end places - but I don't think most of our neighbors go to them. The people I see there tend to be older retired people like us. And then there are the tourists - and convention groups (we have some golf resorts nearby). There are other areas of town where the population tends to be unmarried - or younger married DINKS - and the restaurants in those areas of town are better than where I live.

Anyway - I don't envy the lot of an independent restaurant operator trying to make a living where I live - or in similar places. Robyn

[chefdavidrusso]

I used to be the Exec Chef of a restaurant that sounds alot like what AAG is, and then I spun off and opened my own catering business that targeted the same clientel. One of the things I found MOST successful in terms of getting the word out about my businesses was partnering with the local NPR station. Demographic data shows that NPR listeners tend to be the same people who frequent higher-end, finer dining establishments (mid-30's to early 50's with a larger portion of disposable income).

The key is doing things in trade so that you advertising (I know, it's "sponsorship", but who are we kidding) doesn't cost you anything. For example, you host one of there contributors receptions, or give them $50 dining certificates to give away as a pledge-drive incentive...something like that. Now granted, I'm new around here and realy don't know if there even IS a local NPR affilliate outside of NYC, but doing that kind of thing was always hugely sucessful for me.

Forgive me, Lou, if I'm telling you something you already know, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

Edited July 21, 2004 by chefdavidrusso (log)

[tommy]

In a nutshell - they don't have much money to spend on food. Which is why the low end chain places are packed with them (and I see the pizza delivery trucks so frequently in driveways).

the thing is, that's probably not the case in the area where AAG sits. chains cost as much if not more than AAG, even factoring in a few kids' meals.

[Lreda]

Much more for a chain than an individual restaurant. If a chain came in offering me bookoo bucks I'd certainly listen.

By the way, with kid's meals I make more profit than off steaks and fish. Another reason why I'm kid friendly. Let's not forget, the kids bring the parents.

Edited July 21, 2004 by Lreda (log)

[ghostrider]

Jersey does indeed have its own public TV/radio stations. Here's their website.

I watch them at least as much as I do NYC's Channel 13 because they offer programming that NYC's bigger-budgeted outfit doesn't.

[robyn]

In a nutshell - they don't have much money to spend on food.  Which is why the low end chain places are packed with them (and I see the pizza delivery trucks so frequently in driveways).

the thing is, that's probably not the case in the area where AAG sits. chains cost as much if not more than AAG, even factoring in a few kids' meals.

I don't know much about chain restaurants. We go to them now and then when we take my father-in-law out for lunch from the nursing home because they're close to the nursing home and they have good handicap parking. I guess the last one we went to was Olive Garden. It was pretty yucky except for the salad - and it cost about $35 including tax and tip for 3 people (no alcohol). Red Lobster (which actually isn't bad for plain grilled fish) is about the same. We stay away from the Chili's/Applebee's/Ruby Tuesday kind of places because most of the dishes are "cheese with this" or "cheese with that". My father-in-law has congestive heart failure and has to stay away from salty foods like cheese.

I know that on a certain level - we have non-chain restaurants that are competitive price-wise with the chains. They are mostly BBQ places - pasta places - microbreweries - etc. For the most part - unimaginative - I suspect half of them get their stuff frozen at Costco. So although the prices are the same as the chains - so is the quality.

Judging from what you're saying - AAG is much better than the chains - and costs about the same. If I had a place like that here - I'd certainly frequent it. Robyn