Rocca, a new restaurant in Glen Rock

[tommy]

Sorry--but I have no e-mail address to forward the notes to. I suggest that someone call the restaurant and tell them to read eGullet.

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short of that i'll print out this thread and bring it tomorrow.

[Rosie]

short of that i'll print out this thread and bring it tomorrow. 

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I can always count on you Tommy. Let us know what happens.

[markk]

We've all had our own negative restaurant experiences so I can (almost) respect your decision but, I love this place, and in the end that's more room for the rest of us .

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I'm glad you like this place, and very happy to be making more room for you. Enjoy!

this could get ugly...

 

...i do think that the people at Rocca care about their customers

Well, there's absolutely no cause for ugliness. Not on eG anyway!

I was going to say that with a subject like restaurants we can all agree to disagree, but that's not even the relevant thing here. Agreeing to disagree would be if we all went on the same night and had the same dishes, and some of us loved them and some of us hated them - and that would not be an unusual thing to happen, of course.

I went to Rocca in a party of three, and we all had the same low opinion. When the server who asks you to place your order right away stands there glaring at you and tapping his pen to his order pad and won't discuss the menu with you, when servers stand not too far from your table with folded arms and glaring faces waiting for your plates, when servers see completely untouched food and don't inquire, and then grunt and say or do nothing when you tell them why the food couldn't be eaten... this is hard to misintrepret. I call it "rude".

And, it's a lack of caring for the diners. Maybe they care for some of you on other nights, but they didn't care for us when we were there.

And our food, much of it cold and undercooked, was just not very good.

To us, it was a lousy meal, and a lousy experience. And I think that they knew exactly what they were doing, both the serving staff and the kitchen. If they were true professionals, and wanted us to enjoy our meals and leave thinking that it was a great restaurant, with a desire to return, they'd have bitten the bullet and cooked our food well and served it graciously. I don't know that it would have taken that much extra time to serve things hot and cooked through, and seasoned properly. I don't think they need to know about my report because they were there, and they were the ones doing it. Neither the servers nor the people preparing the food could possibly have thought that we were enjoying anything - not the food they hastily threw together, and not the attitude with which they served us.

And as for my grilled veal, I just thought it was lousy. And I tasted the over-salted mushrooms and the searing, burning sensation of overwhelming saltiness made it impossible to eat. And none of the other dishes was great in any way.

I do know from many (many) years of dining that restaurants have off-nights. (And usually, when you take a friend to a favorite restaurant, that's when they'll have one.)

So food wise, I'll go with the off night theory.

As far as the hateful service, I can only pronounce that an unprofessional attitude, and to me, that's a black mark against the restaurant's owners. The staff made it clear that our presence was unwelcome. To me, that's something a restaurant staff should never do, and for reasons that are hard to explain, I have come to the conclusion over the years that the way in which a front-of-house staff treats its customers is completely indicative of the way the restaurant owners treat them.

And actually, the same is true of cooks. I don't know if the chef is the owner of this place, nor do I know if he was there that night. If he was, he had to have known that we couldn't possibly enjoy what he was sending out. And if he wasn't, his kitchen staff certainly did him a disservice. In my experience, when the chef or owner is a great guy with a winning attitude towards his customers (and invariably the staff), the entire staff will lovingly try to carry on in this tradition for the customers when he's not there. But we experienced bad service from both the kitchen and the servers, and it didn't leave us with a good feeling about the attitude of the place from the top down.

In my original post, I was only reporting on the mediocre meal and unpleasant experience that we had. As far as the experience having killed our desire to return, well, that's just how we feel.

Tommy's description (right above) of the place makes the most sense. But based on some of the raves earlier in this thread, we tried the place thinking it was supposed to be great. And for us, on the particular night we went, it was anything but!

Oh well. There are other restaurants for us to go to and enjoy. No cause for ugliness here.

[Rosie]

I assume that if the owner learns about the waiter's mistreatment of you he will be fired. There is also a possibility that the chef went home and an untrained staff member put your meal together. I also agree that if I have such a horrendous experience in any restaurant it will be a long time if I go back there. Most likely I would never return. With that being said--I agree that it is worth trying again but go with Tommy or adegiulio!

[markk]

I assume that if the owner learns about the waiter's mistreatment of you he will be fired.  There is also a possibility that the chef went home and an untrained staff member put your meal together. I also agree that if I have such a horrendous experience in any restaurant it will be a long time if I go back there. Most likely I would never return. With that being said--I agree that it is worth trying again but go with Tommy or adegiulio! 

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While of course our waiter (the one who took our order) was at fault, two other servers were equally to blame. It was one of them who cleared the uneaten appetizer and grunted at the problem, and all three of them who glared at us while waiting for us to finish the various courses.

As for going back, we're just not interested. I understand that most of you have had more positive experiences, and I'm happy for you. (Well, I meant that to come out nice.) I don't begrudge them the food. If it had only been that the food was not as good as all the postings, I might have decided to give it another try. It's that when the entire staff is rude like that, it's a permanent turn-off for me. And, as for the idea that the chef went home and left an untrained person to prepare the meals, knowing that they had people coming (new people as well) - well, Rosie, I know you meant well with that, but I wouldn't have any respect for a chef/owner who did that.

And I must say one more time... I called twice to be sure I could come just before closing. If the chef was going home, or if they were not in the mood to serve at that hour, they should have said so - something like "we close at 9, but we suggest that on a Sunday you not come after 8." Or they should have said "On Sundays we close at 8".

Thanks to all the posters for your encouraging comments. I'm glad your experiences there are more positive. For me, it was just too many strikes against them, and it was a turn-off.

Edited September 19, 2004 by markk (log)

[grchef203]

Dear eGullet members,

I am Craig Levy, the executive chef and owner of Rocca. I have been following your comments since I spoke with Rosie a few months ago, but as we are so new I didn't have the time to introduce myself to you earlier.

First, I want to thank you for your support, constructive criticisms, and patronage over the last 2 1/2 months. I have enjoyed the discussion and I am happy to join it finally.

Incidentally, I would like to address markk's postings. It was me who you spoke to that evening for directions and who made clear that we would serve you if you arrived anytime before 9. This is my policy. I was working the front of the house that night as I sometimes do because I feel as an owner I need to ensure not only the quality of the food, but of the service as well. The chef in charge that night is hardly 'un-trained.'

If my staff (front of house or kitchen) displeased you in any way, it is my duty to deal with them appropriately and I will not make excuses for their actions. However, it is your prerogative as a disgruntled customer whether to ask for a manager (me that evening) and discuss with him/her your complaints, not rant them unabashedly on the internet.

I take enormous pride in what I do, whether it's cooking or managing the front of the house. I do everything I can to ensure that my customers leave satisfied and happy with their experience. I sincerely apologize if you received the kind of service and food that you wrote about, however, there is no way I can remedy a situation that I knew nothing about. Now it is too late because I was never given a heads up about your situation.

As a chef I have dined in many restaurants, fine and otherwise, and I have had my fair share of disappointments and unacceptable incidents. I would voice my opinion if I was that unhappy, but never would I disrespect the management/ownership by telling people "

Good Lord, don't go to Rocca on a Sunday night !!!" or anything close to that without first confronting the issue while I was still at the restaurant.

I'd also like to note that everything at my restaurant is made to order--I do not serve pre-cooked food (soup is an exception as it is not practical for us to make that to order in a restaurant setting).

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not everyone likes every place they try, but at least their is a forum like eGullet where we can talk about it fairly and rationally.

Thank you all for hearing me out. I look forward to discussing better situations in the future.

Craig Levy

Executive Chef/Owner

RoCCA

post-edit: In no way did I intend to come off as snide, self-serving or belittling--that is wholly against my character and I apologize if that's how my note read.

Edited September 20, 2004 by grchef203 (log)

[Rosie]

Fair Enough. THANK YOU Chef Craig for your posting and welcome to eGullet.

[markk]

Dear eGullet members,

I am Craig Levy, the executive chef and owner of Rocca.... 

Incidentally, I would like to address markk's postings.... 

Thank you all for hearing me out.  I look forward to discussing better situations in the future.

Craig Levy

Executive Chef/Owner

RoCCA

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[uNFORTUNATELY, THE SOFTWARE WOULD NOT LET ME QUOTE MR. LEVY'S MESSAGE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND REPLY TO IT AT LENGTH; I APOLOGIZE FOR ABRIDGING HIS MESSAGE, WHICH WAS NOT MY INTENTION]

What an eloquent post indeed. And how self-serving.

Unfortunately, as a customer of yours who was served two dishes that were cold in two different courses, and one dish that went back uneaten because it was astoundingly too salty to be eaten, and served this food by servers who were resentful of our presence and stood over us to rush us through the meal, I find your comments offensive. Nothing you have said has actually addressed the problems I had at your restaurant. Rather, they are attempting to make you look good, and me at fault. I feel this is wrong of you.

As to your comment “it is your duty as a disgruntled customer to ask for a manager…”, may I point out to you that as the paying customer, I have no duties and no obligations to you, the restaurant owner. I think it was your duty to have trained the staff to be gracious to all your customers, at all times. The actions and behavior of your staff, and the message you posted here, are at odds. I will judge your restaurant by its actions, not by your words after the fact. You told me that I was welcome to arrive at that late hour, and your staff was rude and resentful to me - that is your problem, not mine.

When your waiter asked for our order, stood over us and tapped his pen to his pad, and refused to help us choose, what was it my “duty” to do? Was I to call you over and complain at that point? Gee, what a pleasant experience it would have been from that point forward. I think you’re very wrong to put the burden here on me. You wrote that “I take enormous pride in what I do, whether it's cooking or managing the front of the house. I do everything I can to ensure that my customers leave satisfied and happy with their experience.” Then you should have trained your staff to be gracious and helpful to the customers at all times, and you certainly should have let them know that you invited three people to come late and made sure they knew that we not to be made to feel unwelcome.

As to the meal itself…

I did send back my cold soup, and it was brought back hot. There was no need to ask for a manager.

My companion could not eat his mushroom appetizer, and based on the fact that everybody on the staff who dealt with us when we arrived made it perfectly clear that they did not want us there at that hour, followed by the fact that your kitchen served me cold soup to demonstrate that point, he wanted nothing from you. He didn’t want another dish, and he didn’t want it taken off the bill. But the fact that nobody on your staff cared that an entire dish went back untouched, is to me, appalling. If you are as concerned as you say you are, you should have noticed this, and you should have trained your staff to do the same. I’ve been in numerous fine restaurants where people, not wanting to complain (because, as you should know, it puts the diner in an uncomfortable position), have simply left their food untouched, and in every case the waiter noticed this and offered to change the dish. As I say, my companion didn’t want another dish, but the server should have noticed this as he cleared it and made the offer himself, and when you saw an uneaten plate come back to the kitchen, you should have noticed it as well and come over to the table to express your concern and offered to remedy it. The responsibility in this circumstance is yours.

Then came two courses of perfectly disappointing food. Again, I can’t see any point in calling a manager. What would I have said? “We were disappointed in your food?” What would you have done? Offered to make it again and make it better? Your staff made it clear that they resented our presence and wanted us out of there; I assure you, and everybody reading this, that there was no possibility that they were going to serve us any re-made food.

As far as your comment “I'd also like to note that everything at my restaurant is made to order--I do not serve pre-cooked food”, let me say that I’m of the opinion that heat is required to cook both White Bean soup, and risotto. I cannot imagine how you could cook these dishes to order and have them come out with parts of them cold, cool, and lukewarm.

And, I point out that the suggestion that the food was prepared by “an un-trained chef” was posted by Rosie, not me.

Lastly, I take great offense at the second part of your comment, “However, it is your duty as a disgruntled customer to ask for a manager (me that evening) and discuss with him/her your complaints, not rant them unabashedly on the internet.” As I said above, I think it’s ridiculous to hold the opinion as a restaurant owner that a paying customer has any “obligation” or “duty” to you. And how dare you accuse me of ranting unabashedly on the internet! I am a member of eGullet who posted to a forum containing positive reviews of your establishment that I had an experience there that was anything BUT positive. I have a perfect right to post negative comments on this forum, and to share an unpleasant experience with the other members. I understand that many of the members of eGullet have had pleasant experiences at your restaurant. I decidedly did not have one. And as it was based on their posts that I decided to go, I wanted to share my experience with them. To deal with criticism by calling it “ranting and raving” is wholly unprofessional of you. I am a paying customer who was served cold, undercooked food by a rude staff, and I have the right to tell my experience to whomever I wish.

Caring is something that restaurant owners and chefs demonstrate with their actions, and something that they pass on to their staffs. You shouldn’t be telling me now what a caring restaurateur you are – I should have been able to tell that from visiting your restaurant, and I could not. But what happened there was not my fault, I assure you. The fact that you were there and the staff was rude and uncaring and that the kitchen served me cold food (twice) in your presence, tells me that you don’t care as much as you claim you do. If you were working the front of the house that night you should have noticed a waiter tapping his pen to his pad while waiting for our order, and you should have noticed waiters with folded arms and scowls; if you were working the kitchen, you should have noticed food coming back uneaten, and food going out cold. And if you were there, having spoken to me on the phone earlier that evening, knowing I was a first time guest, you certainly should have come over to introuduce yourself and ask if everything was alright; for you not to have felt the unpleasant vibes and sensed the attitude of your staff members that night is odd. I believe it's usually the case in restaurants that when food is served, someone comes by to ask how everything is; that takes the unpleasant responsibility off the customer, you know.

And certainly, you shouldn’t have told me to come at that hour when you spoke to me. About two weeks ago, I called your restaurant on a Saturday to make reservations for the following night close to closing, and the girl who answered the phone told me “well, we’re open until then, but you really shouldn’t come then because it’s late, and everybody will be tired and wanting to go home.” And I posted this on eGullet to ask for reactions, only I specifically omitted the name of your restaurant. Then, having read more positive posts on the Rocca thread, but able to come only late on a Sunday, I called not once but twice more, only to be told this time, once by you, the owner, that I was absolutely welcome to arrive at that late hour.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, I have developed the feeling over the years that the attitude of a restaurant staff is reflective of that of its owner. And the fact that you’ve come on this forum and told me that what happened was my fault, that it was my “duty” to have said something, and that I am wrong to post criticism of you on an internet forum – well, now I see where they get it from.

I believe the many eGullet members who have described good meals at your restaurant. I didn’t get one the night I went. And I shared my experience. You shouldn’t make snide comments about “constructive” criticism – you’re not a child - you’re a business owner – you should accept serious criticisms and deal with them privately, not publicly belittle the person who made them.

Edited September 19, 2004 by markk (log)

[Rosie]

Everyone has had their say. Time to move on. If you dine at Rocca be sure to give us a report.

[Rosie]

Feel free to start a topic in "General Food Topics" on service in restaurants.

[adegiulio]

We ate at Rocca tonight. It was disappointing.

Edited September 23, 2004 by adegiulio (log)

[Rosie]

Discussion on "restaurant service" is here:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=52000

[tommy]

We ate at Rocca tonight. It sucked.

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i had an excellent meal at Rocca last night.

[adegiulio]

What time were you there? We were there from around 6:30ish to around 8....Sat in the front by the window...

[tommy]

What time were you there? We were there from around 6:30ish to around 8....Sat in the front by the window...

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dude, you know you eat a lot earlier than me. i was still at work at 6.30 for cryin out loud.

we were there from about 9-10. about 6 tables were filled when we got there, none of which had your smiling face propped atop...although i thought i might bump into you.

[tommy]

they are changing over to a fall menu effective tonight. we previewed the menu, which included a lot of autumnals, including the usual suspects of pumpkin and sage. the pastas are changed up a bit, and the entrees looked almost completely reworked. some of the new menu appeared on the specials menu last night as well, so we got to try 1 or 2.

had a tuna carpaccio that was excellent. served with a thinly sliced fennel salad. i liked the herbal note of fresh thyme, which i wasn't expecting.

also had the old standby of orrechiette and sausage, which had perhaps a bit too much oil. but the bowl is big enough that you don't even get to the bottom until you're full.

meatballs and what i assume was homemade rigatoni was very good, and very, um, comforting, just as i wanted.

service was attentive. pepper/cheese offered when appropriate. table de-crumbed when crumby. green olive oil poured in plate when bread arrived.

[dimsum]

We ate at Rocca tonight. It sucked.

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Would be interested to hear exactly why.

[markk]

We ate at Rocca tonight. It was disappointing.

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If you're willing to share the details, I'd be very interested in hearing them. Of course, I had a diappointing meal there last week and posed about it, and then a most heated discussion ensued. After a point, Rosie closed that discussion, saying:

"Everyone has had their say. Time to move on. If you dine at Rocca be sure to give us a report."

And that was a healthy thing to say at that point; my meal was discussed to death.

Tommy went back since Rosie invited only new comments, and posted most favorably. You went back since and were disappointed. Considering, (especially considering) that many people here tried to convince me to give the place another try, I'd love to hear the details of your disappointing experience. I'm certainly hoping that there will be no more trouble, and that you'll not receive any flack for a negative post, but I don't think it should be surprising that, or why, I'm curious to hear it: I was apparently not the only person to have a disappointing experience there. And I'm sure that your post will be as fair, and as intelligent, as all the others that I enjoy reading so much on eGullet. Thanks if you do decide to share the details!

Edited September 23, 2004 by markk (log)

[adegiulio]

Well, today was a bit busier at work than I expected, so I haven't had much time to post about our meal last night. To start, let me say that the food was much better than the service, which was a joke. We had a server that sounded like this was his first night at work...

We walked in around 6:30. We were pleasantly greeted and shown to a table in front by the window. Our wine was opened and menus were presented. The menu was heavy with fish, which is great since thats what we were in the mood for. As we were sipping our prosecco, the waiter started pouring water in amy's glass. I interupted him and said that we preferred San Pellegrino. He scooped up the water glasses and returned with two new glasses. At this point I still don't think I had ever heard his voice. No hello....no "would you like tap or bottled water?" He brought us a bottle of something that after he poured and we tasted, was clear it wasnt San Pell. As a matter of fact, it wasn't even sparkling. Thats odd, so I asked him if the bottle was flat. He said he thought I said I wanted still water. OK, don't know how that could be confused, but whatever. He offered to bring us another bottle, but I dont like to waste, so we kept it. At this point in our young meal I was beginning to think this server was a bit off the note....

Amy went to freshen up. While she was away, someone brought us some bread. Well, he brought ME bread, and proceeded to walk away. I motioned to him that Amy probably wanted bread too. Thought that was odd, but keep a positive outlook. Our server, Mr. talkative, returned for our orders. No enthusiasm, just order taking. Amy ordered the Pastina Salad and Halibut, I ordered Buccatini, light on the peppers, and whole roasted branzino. That was the last we heard from our server for a while...

The apps were good. Its clear that my request for light peppers was either ignored by the kitchen or the waiter, but it was still tasty. Twice while we were eating, a busboy came up to us and asked if we were done. Annoying, come on guys lets pay attention. I have buccatini hanging out of my mouth, I'm probably still working on it.. When we were done, the dishes, all the silverware, the bread plates, oil, etc were cleared. Halfway through I mentioned to the busboy that we were only halfway done with our meal. "OH!", he said as he returned our silverware to the table....

Next up was our halibut and grilled branzino. Both looked fantastic. Amy really enjoyed her fish, and I really enjoyed my fish. I think I would have enjoyed it double if it were filleted either tableside or in the kitchen. Still it was good. At one point while I was wrestling a bone out of my mouth, our server asked how everything was. We said it was good, tasty. I also mentioned that I was having fun working around all the bones. He chuckled as he walked away. He Lives!! We have confirmed life in our server!! Whatever. After a while I asked for a separate bowl to put the head, tail, gills, bones and assorted fish parts that I would have prefered not to eat, into. All in all, the dish was good, flavors worked, and most of all, the fish was succulent and well cooked.

It might seem like I am nitpicking here, but I know this place has better service potential. The last two times previous we had received excellent service. A lot of the mis-steps last night were small, inconsequential. Alone, none of them were that bad or outrageous, but when taken together, it made for an annoying meal. It felt kinda like we were a table at a school for waiters, and everywhere they could fail, they did. I still like Rocca, and will go back, I just hope they can get this stuff ironed out.

And get rid of our server. LOUSY.....

[tommy]

dude, ask for your fish to be fileted or de-boned. i'm sure the kitchen will oblige.

[Rachel Perlow]

Actually, if I order a whole fish, I would be quite annoyed if it were filleted in the kitchen. Therefore, I agree with tommy that if you want it deboned, you should (have to) ask. I like to work out all the bits myself, that's why I order whole fish. However, I do appreciate it when they remember to give you a bone plate or bowl without asking.

[adegiulio]

dude, ask for your fish to be fileted or de-boned.  i'm sure the kitchen will oblige.

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Yeah, and while I'm at it I'll suggest to the servers that they give BOTH diners bread, WAIT till we are done before clearing our dishes, bring the water we requested, pay attention to what is going on, tell us about the menu....

[tommy]

Yeah, and while I'm at it I'll suggest to the servers that they give BOTH diners bread, WAIT till we are done before clearing our dishes, bring the water we requested, pay attention to what is going on, tell us about the menu....

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while the bread thing *might* be questionable (will the server be back to offer your guest bread when she returns? perhaps...i know each of my guests are always asked if they want bread, so waiting is consistent with my experience), whole fish means "whole fish." you can't possible think this is a misstep (because it's not, trust me). it has more to do with the dreaded, but perhaps in this case applicable, "you don't understand whole fish."

[adegiulio]

Actually, if I order a whole fish, I would be quite annoyed if it were filleted in the kitchen. Therefore, I agree with tommy that if you want it deboned, you should (have to) ask. I like to work out all the bits myself, that's why I order whole fish. However, I do appreciate it when they remember to give you a bone plate or bowl without asking.

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I would be annoyed if they filleted in the kitchen with me ever seeing the fish. Show me the fish, bring it back and filet it.

Let me mention that the filleting of the fish is maybe 18th on the list of annoyances. I can handle filleting of the fish, but something tells me Ryan Depersio filets the fish for his customers...OR at the very least brings a bone bowl...

Bone bowl??

[adegiulio]

you can't possible think this is a misstep (because it's not, trust me). 

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Sorry, this was my first time dining in a restaurant. Was unaware that whole fish meant whole fish...

"you don't understand whole fish."

This thread is about Rocca in Glen Rock, not Craft...