Sacre bleu! It's the SAQ topic!

[carswell]

SAQrilegious, SAQrosanct, SAQed-out or SAQcharine — whatever your feelings toward the Société des alcools du Québec, we're stuck with it. Here's the place to share your news, blues, coups, ooze and roose about the booze board we love to hate.

To get the ball rolling, a tip:

There's an in-branch sale from June 30 to July 4 (something tells me it's not to celebrate Canada Day). Ten percent off the sticker price on all wines retailing for $20 and up. No minimum purchase.

Edited June 30, 2004 by carswell (log)

[cook-em-all]

I've recently read that employees will start pressure tactics, because the have been working without a collective bargaining agreement.

I think employees are skeptical that the SAQ's new philosophy of wanting to increase profit will not include cuttting jobs and/or benefits.

[Lesley C]

I spoke to an SAQ employee last week who told me there's talk of a strike. So, just in case, stock up because she said things MIGHT get ugly. Then again, I can't imagine an SAQ strike lasting any length of time in the heat of summer vacation.

[identifiler]

the Roquette era will be very short, he will go back to his real interests.

[ademello]

As much as I love to hate the SAQ, I will give them this - they are doing a fabulous job of enabling and promoting the ability to order wine directly over the Internet. Personally, I think this is fantastically convenient.

I'm about to go through my first experience of privately ordering some boutique Californian wines and I'll be happy to report my experiences here.

[carswell]

As much as I love to hate the SAQ, I will give them this - they are doing a fabulous job of enabling and promoting the ability to order wine directly over the Internet. Personally, I think this is fantastically convenient.

True, they've been amazingly nimble in this area, though it has to be said that they had lots of models to emulate (or not, as the case may be). Anyway, besides the convenience for city dwellers, the service must be a real boon to people in remote areas.

I'm about to go through my first experience of privately ordering some boutique Californian wines and I'll be happy to report my experiences here.

Please do!

[carswell]

Am I the only one who finds SAQ's rosé offerings mediocre, especially in the last couple of years? It's like they've bought into the myth that pink wine is only for guzzling. Things were better a while back, when they sold some serious rosés, in particular the pinks from two Bandol chateaus, Pradeaux and Pibarnon, elegant and complex wines able to age for five or more years (actually the Pradeaux was far better the following summer; I kick myself for not buying a case). But ever since, it's mostly unmemorable, even insipid, stuff. Why no Bandols (Tempier!) or better Provence rosés (Domaine de la Modorée, anyone)? Why no rosato di nebbiolo (the perfect wine for vitello tonnato, the perfect summer dish)? Why no Coudoulet-de-Beaucastel? Why no Cerdon de Bugey, a refreshing, slightly sweet, pale red sparkler from the Savoie? Why no Billecart-Salmon NV, one of the best rosé champagnes and far from the most expensive?

Anyway, we're working our way through some of the more appealing pinkies from this year's batch. Here are our picks to date:

- Côtes du Rhône 2003, Guigal ($20.45). Balanced, relatively complex. Fruit and alcohol (11%) kept in check. One of the best.

- Chinon 2003, René Couly ($19.70). Soft, subtle, elegant. Lovely with cold poached salmon.

- Coteaux du Languedoc 2003, L'Hortus, Rosé de saignée ($16.90). Fruit-forward but not heavy. A crowd-pleaser.

- Coteaux du Languedoc 2003, Pic-Saint-Loup, Château Lancyre ($15.10). Fruity, lively, dry. Good picnic/barbecue wine.

- Côtes de Provence 2003, Rosaline ($15.05). Dry and herb-scented with a dusty finish.

Good enough:

- Vin gris de cigare 2003, Bonny Doon ($16.10). The fruit's ramped up in 2003. A bit too sweet: the first glass was enjoyable, the second glass less so. Worked best alongside a slightly sweet swiss chard, pinenut and golden raisin pie. Love the twist cap!

- Côtes-du-Ventoux 2003, La Vielle Ferme ($12.50). Excellent QPR.

- Côtes-du-Frontonnais 2002, Château Bellevue La Forêt ($14.80). Aromatic, fruity, balanced, enjoyable if a bit simple. Made from negrette grapes.

Avoid:

- Tavel 2003, Domaine du Viel Aven ($20.05). Blowsy, heavy and hot: your typical Tavel.

Next up:

- Tavel 2003, Château d'Aqueria ($22.40). Hey, I'm an optimist.

- Costières de Nîmes 2003, Fleurs d'Églantine, Château Morgues du Grès ($15.50). Assuming I can score a bottle, that is. The 2002 was excellent. Unfortunately the 2003 is available only in case lots on a private import basis from Rézin (www.rezin.com).

A couple of red wine heads-up:

- Côteaux du Languedoc 2000, L'infidèle, Mas Cal Demoura ($25.65). Made by the father (IIRC) of the owner of Mas du Daumas Gassac. Structured, complex, balanced, savoury. There's obviously some syrah in the mix.

- Tercius 2000, Portugal. My WAG is that name refers to the three grapes that go into the wine: trincadeira preta, tinta roriz and touriga nacional. No great depth but plenty of delicious plummy fruit. Sold out in many stores; check www.saq.com for availability.

Edited July 5, 2004 by carswell (log)

[Lesley C]

Yes, the SAQ rose selection is pathetic. I was in Provence on a wine trip last fall and tasted some fabulous roses, many of them barrel-aged and comperable to a topnotch C-d-W white. Where are these products? Nowhere near Quebec.

I just tasted the Vielle Ferme last night and was less than thrilled. The Pic St-Loup is good, and I quite liked a Corbieres they had last year.

Dietrich joos makes a nice rose. It's worth checking out. I had a Tavel and a Joos rose on the dinner table a while ago and no one went for the Tavel. Also, I always prefer buying a local product when possible (though you couldn't pay me to drink a local red!).

But concerning roses, doesn't a second wave come in to stores sometime mid July?

[carswell]

Yes, the SAQ rose selection is pathetic. I was in Provence on a wine trip last fall and tasted some fabulous roses, many of them barrel-aged and comperable to a topnotch C-d-W white. Where are these products? Nowhere near Quebec.

You mean C-d-R white, right? But, yeah, I said exactly that when I first tasted the Pradeaux: the best comparison wasn't a Tavel but a top white Chateauneuf-du-Pape or even a Burgundy. An SAQ clerk told me that the Bandols didn't sell well because they were around $10 more than your average rosé. I can appreciate that but it's also a question of marketing: they should be presented not as quaffers but as serious gastronomic wines. As such, they're not overpriced at all.

I just tasted the Vielle Ferme last night and was less than thrilled.

While it's not in the same league as many $15-20 rosés, I find it stands heads and shoulders above the others in its price range.

The Pic St-Loup is good

Pic St-Loup has a micro-climate. It's cooler than most of the rest of the Languedoc. I'm sure that helped in a hot year like 2003.

Dietrich joos makes a nice rose. It's worth checking out.

Thanks for the tip. I've only drunk their whites.

though you couldn't pay me to drink a local red!

Exactly. Which is why I'd been avoiding local rosés...

But concerning roses, doesn't a second wave come in to stores sometime mid July?

Dunno. Don't recall that happening last year. Will ask.

[Lesley C]

No, I meant the Cotes-du-Whone, a very little-known region just south of Lyon (sorry, I must be tired with this heat).

As for the second wave of roses, I'll call the SAQ PR lady on Monday and find out.

[dearprudence]

Screw the saq. I've been enjoying home brewed wines for years now and have not stepped feet into a saq in the same amount of time. They will never see a single solitary cent from me ever again.

[sf&m]

You are reading my mind!!

The week before last I had occasion to go down to Dunham and before I knew It had become a Rosé expedition.

I stopped off at Cote D'Ardois and got a couple of their DeChaunac Rosé then ran down to Domain du Ridge and picked up a couple of their 2002 Rosé. It's a Marechal Foch. They also had an offer of 12 x 500 ml of their 2001 Rosé(Foch) which is quite interesting. So I got that. On my way back I stopped into L'Orpailleur and got couple of bottles of their Rosé as well. (Blend of DeChaunac, Marechal Foch and Black Seyval (??? I think they said - will find that out).

(Most of these are probably availalable at Maison De Saveurs - except to 2001 Ridge.)

Had planned to publish (here) a comparison of these Rosés with Inexpensive French Rosés but had to go back to SF before I had a chance to indulge. However, a couple of of the 2001 Ridge did not seem to present an inital consumption problem.

Of course I have continued my research here in SF with some L'Hortus and a nice

Cote-de-Luberon Rosé (South East Rhone by AOC - Really Provence) I found in my local store - Val Joanis (Syrah and Gamay).

No - SAQ does not carry Val Joanis - I checked.

BTW - The Dietrich Joos is the only QC Rosé carried by SAQ I think. Does someone know what grape(s) they use?

Next week I'll check out some Tavel and Bandol.

All in the name of getting scientifically calibrated.

As soon as I get back to Montreal I will publish a comparison testing here.

What got me started was a realization that QC Rosés *might* be competitive to at least inexpensive quaffing French Rosés.

Ok, so no great shakes in Gourmet land but what the heck, it's summer, it's fun, and why can't we get a QC Rosé on a Montreal Restaurant Terrasse?

Quebec wine is coming and getting better ALL THE TIME. Yeah, and that means Reds too!!

What better ways to introduce french wine drinkers to DeChaunac and Foch or Cabernet Franc then a funky QC Rosé? You have to start somewhere.

That's my ulterior motiv - of course I will be totally objective in my taste comparison - stanby!

I suppose I now have to fess up in the name of disclosure - I am involved in setting up a new QC winery, but it's 4-5 years before we have product - if at all.

[carswell]

The Dietrich Joos is the only QC Rosé carried by SAQ I think. Does someone know what grape(s) they use?

According to their website (click and scroll), it's "De Chaunac avec macération pelliculaire très courte 12 à 24 heures, " in other words, De Chaunac grapes that are crushed and allowed to macerate briefly on their skins. The probable reason why the maceration is short is that De Chaunac is one of the very few teinturier, or red fleshed, grapes. Most red and black grapes have dark skins and whitish flesh, which is why, by minimizing the time the juice spends in contact with the skins, you can use them to make white wines (think blanc de noirs champagne or, shudder, white zinfandel). But even with no skin contact, a wine made from De Chaunac will be pink.

BTW1, cabernet franc can make more than simple rosés for quaffing. As far as I know, the Chinon praised above is 100% cabernet franc.

BTW2, when you're ready to tell us about your wine-making venture, we'll be all ears. <nudge, nudge>

Edited July 5, 2004 by carswell (log)

[ademello]

Carswell:

Randall from Bonny Doon suggested drinking Le Vin Gris de Cigare with lamb. I served it was weekend with a Moroccan-spiced braised lamb shank and it was truly an awesome, albeit unexpected combination.

I love the Côtes-du-Ventoux 2003 La Vielle Ferme for the price, but IMHO the Bonny Doon wins hands down for bursting with thirst-quenching fruit flavor. It's like Kool Aid for adults.

Another tasty one is the Roseline Côtes-de-provence Rosé 2003, $15 at the SAQ. It's a little harder to find, but worth the effort.

[identifiler]

There is always a bottle of Chinon in this house. It's our lifesaver for hot afternoons. Restaurant Continental and BU offer some really nice Rosé, I know Continental has a private import (and BU also but I can't confirm). The Continental Rosé is also offered at Olive and Gourmando.

[carswell]

What is it with the SAQ and New Zealand? Here we have a country that is arguably the most dynamic wine producer of the day. That consistently delivers a wide range of delicious, affordable, drinker-friendly wines. That is stylistically as close to Europe as it is to the New World. That is geared for the export market. That has at least one big name known to every wine lover and wannabe wine lover. And that has generated the kind of excitement that leads otherwise sane men to write that drinking a certain sauvignon blanc is like strapping yourself to Elle McPherson and bungee-jumping into a bottomless vat of cat pee and gooseberry leaves. In other words, here we have a winner however you care to look at it, and our booze board currently stocks a grand total of five New Zealand wines out of its current offer of 5,600+ wines. That's three chards and two, count 'em, two sauvignon blancs. No Cloudy Bay (I don't think it's been seen on the SAQ's shelves since the early '90s), none of the boutique sauvignon blancs that have set wine lovers' hearts aflutter in the US and Europe, no rieslings, no bubblies, no pinot noirs, in fact, not a single friggin' red. How can this be?

For an inkling of what we're missing out on, read Thor Iverson's monumental and nicely illustrated recounting of his recent wine-centred trip to both islands (I've linked to the last post in the series as it's the only one that contains hyperlinks to all the other posts). And don't forget Sue Courtney's useful New Zealand Wine of the Week site.

Edited July 9, 2004 by carswell (log)

[sf&m]

Carswell, as a side note on Cloudy Bay - tried to score some from the distributor in Toronto last year. (The Merchant Vintner Ltd. ) Allocation was long gone in August and this year it's worse because they had bad spring frost in NZ 2003.

[carswell]

Carswell, as a side note on Cloudy Bay - tried to score some from the distributor in Toronto last year. (The Merchant Vintner Ltd. ) Allocation was long gone in August and this year it's worse because they had bad spring frost in NZ 2003.

Unless my memory's playing tricks on me, all the bottles of Cloudy Bay I've had in the last ten years or so have been purchased at the LCBO. Ditto NZ reds. Yet the SAQ currently lists 40+ mostly low-end wines from Mendoza (Argentina). It's ludicrous.

[sf&m]

Anybody know what this is all about?

Québec resserre le contrôle sur les vins du terroir

I don't know what private stores they are talking about that sells QC wine. Unless it's Marche De Saveurs etc. But their wine sales is made under some SAQ arrangement I thought. I just can't believe it's the wineries own sales they are after.

The article above has basically this text:

Québec entend mettre un terme aux ventes, dans les magasins privés, de vin du terroir québécois qu'il est possible de retrouver dans les succursales de la Société des Alcools du Québec.

Selon le gouvernement, qui veut ainsi protéger le monopole de la SAQ, la croissance des ventes de vin du terroir dans les magasins privés peut ouvrir la porte à des produits similaires venant de l'extérieur du Québec.

La SAQ craint que des producteurs étrangers puissent invoquer des traités internationaux pour s'établir à leur tour dans les magasins privés et passer outre le monopole de la société d'État.

Pour les producteurs, la décision de Québec, à l'aube de la saison productive dans les vignobles, est tout simplement catastrophique.

[mhkhung]

winner however you care to look at it, and our booze board currently stocks a grand total of five New Zealand wines out of its current offer of 5,600+ wines. That's three chards and two, count 'em, two sauvignon blancs. No Cloudy Bay (I don't

Yes.. they have FIVE

While NZ wine is a big hit in Toronto.. (even the pathetic LCBO has tons of them.. ), you are lucky to find a bottle in SAQ... My fiancee has a few NZ collegues in Montreal, and I usually fly in a few bottles when I visit.

Few months ago they have a party and my fiancee went to a few SAQ to collect those 5 bottles..

Anyway.. LCBO is just as bad.. few weeks ago I went to the biggest/newest store in Toronto (Davisville-Yonge). They have a total of 1 bottle of Austrian wine, plus a few bottles of half bottles (not counting the dessert wines).

Welcome to the monopoly(s).

[carswell]

Finally got to taste the 2003 Tavel from Château d'Aqueria ($22.40 and available only at the Signature stores). I'm not a fan of Tavels, finding most to be blowsy and hot, but this was quite good: dense, layered and long albeit not exactly refreshing. In the same price bracket, I think the Guigal is the finer wine, though in some situations the Aqueria would be the better choice (to accompany an aioli, say, which would steamroller the more nuanced Guigal).

The biggest surprise of the weekend was a wine from an appellation new to me: Cérons.

The appellation Cérons applies to the three Graves villages (podensac and Illats are the other two) that abut on to Barsac on the north and have a natural tendancy to make sweet wines. ... Cérons, which inclines to be moelleux, the grey area which is sweet but not liquoreux. Occasionally, it attains liquoreux stickiness.

– Hugh Johnson, Modern Encyclopedia of Wine

The wine in question, the 1999 Château de Chantegrives ($32.25), was definitely in the moelleux camp. Showing some botrytis along with melon and candle wax, this hit the palate sweet and finished dry. Light, elegant and refreshingly acidic, it would make a deluxe aperitif, would accompany foie gras far more satisfactorily than many Sauternes, and could even accompany delicate main dishes with a sweet or fruity component (sweetbreads braised with grapes and olives, scallops with lemongrass and coconut milk, etc.). Not many bottles left in the system.

Also, a few weeks ago the Montreal Signature store received a range of wines from some of Germany's leading producers, most of them new to the SAQ. Except for some very pricey half-bottles, the Donnhoffs are sold out. But there remain a few bottles of kabinetts and spatleses from Muller-Catoir, Joh. Jos. Prum, Selbach-Oster and others, mostly from the 2002 vintage. Riesling, of course, but also an unusual and delicious muskateller from Muller-Catoir. Do the all-German nouveaux arrivages release in May and these Signature offerings mean the SAQ has finally seen the light about German wines?

Edited July 19, 2004 by carswell (log)

[carswell]

Dietrich joos makes a nice rose. It's worth checking out.

I looked for a bottle of the DJ rosé on Sunday at the Marché des Saveurs. They were sold out and said they wouldn't be getting any more. Purportedly, the vineyard was sold last winter following M. Joos's death and the new owners have ripped out the vines and planted corn. Was also told that the daughter has returned to Alsace, where she plans to make wine and export it to Quebec under the Joos name (don't see how it could be the same wines, however, as even the smallest amount of hybrid grapes would disqualify the wine from AOC and even, I believe, VDP status). Can anyone confirm this? What's incontestable is that there's next to no Joos rosé left in the SAQ system. Those who want to try it had better get cracking.

[sf&m]

That's bad news indeed. Sad they could not have gotten another vinyard to buy it. I guess it makes some "business sense" if they intend to keep the "Brand" and grow it in Alsac and export it to SAQ - and get cash out of the land to do it. Sad day for QC wine.

I too looked for DJoos Rosé last Saturday - that last one I needed for my "Rosé Expose" - but the ONE bottle supposedly at SAQ Rockland could not be found and I did not have time to go to the store which had some left - darn, probaly all gone before I get back. I guess it doesn't matter now....

BTW Carswell - as price comparison to SAQ the Tavel d'Aqueria is about US$16 here in SF and the Hortus you had mentioned is about US$9.00. Seems about right.

As a switch from Tavels - Try the Pétale de Rose côtes-de-provence rosé 2003 - very pretty pale colour yet (to me) surprisingly full body and tannins. Product Code: 00425496.

[carswell]

While NZ wine is a big hit in Toronto.. (even the pathetic LCBO has tons of them.. ), you are lucky to find a bottle in SAQ...

The LCBO's August release alone includes:

- Chardonnay 2002, Marlborough, Wither Hills, $27.95

- Chardonnay Unoaked 2003, Marlborough, Kim Crawford, $19.95

- Sauvignon Blanc 2003, Marlborough, Framingham, $19.95

- Sauvignon Blanc 2003, Nelson, Seifried Estate, $18.95

- Sauvignon Blanc 2003, Marlborough, Kim Crawford, $19.95

- Merlot 2002, Bullrush Vineyard, Hawkes Bay, Matua Valley, $29.95

- Pinot Noir 2002, Marlborough, Framingham, $28.95

The June releases featured four NZ wines, including the 2003 Cloudy Bay Sauvignon Blanc, which sold out in a flash despite the $30+ sticker.

Anyway.. LCBO is just as bad..  few weeks ago I went to the biggest/newest store in Toronto (Davisville-Yonge). They have a total of 1 bottle of Austrian wine, plus a few bottles of half bottles (not counting the dessert wines).

The thing with recherché wines at the LCBO is that they sell fast, so you have to grab them when they show up. Ontario has offered a few Austrian wines in recent months but, as here in Quebec, nearly all of it's low-end stuff from "industrial" producers. We seldom see any reds and miss out on nearly all the top producers (Nigl, for a glaring example). Private imports aren't a solution for mere mortals, as you're forced to buy the wine in case lots. And the two to four bottles I bring back from the States each year don't begin to fill the gap. Once again, the little guy is screwed. I don't see why it has to be this way.

[carswell]

BTW Carswell - as price comparison to SAQ the Tavel d'Aqueria is about US$16 here in SF and the Hortus you had mentioned is about US$9.00. Seems about right.

Unlike some, I don't find the SAQ overpriced compared with wine stores in the States. Sure, you can sometimes find bargains in the biggest US cities and many US stores offer 10-15% case discounts (though the SAQ often has 10%-off sales and sometimes, during the holdays, offers discounts of up to 25%). And, yep, there's no SAQ equivalent of Two Buck Chuck. But when it comes to mid-price wines and higher, the SAQ is frequently the same or cheaper than many US retailers (ditto the LCBO, which regularly makes the point in its Vintages and Classics catalogues). A couple of years ago in Raleigh, I bought a 1999 Cristoffel kabinett for C$28; I just picked up a bottle of the 2002 at the SAQ for C$24.55. The last meal I had at Jongleux Café, about two weeks before it closed, was watered with a bottle of 1997 Chave Hermitage that cost less than the going *retail* price in the States. The one consistent exception is US wines, which are almost always more expensive here than there (2001 Ridge Geyserville: C$51 at the SAQ, US$29.99/C$40 at Astor Place in NYC). One thing to bear in mind when comparing prices, though, is that the SAQ's prices include all sales taxes (15.1%) whereas the US prices often don't: the SAQ's pre-tax price on that Geyserville is around C$44.35.

Edited August 3, 2004 by carswell (log)