Sacre bleu! It's the SAQ topic!

[carswell]

Overshadowed by the La Presse's Saturday coverage of the tentative agreement between the SAQ and its striking workers was a short article by Christiane Desjardins, "Un amateur de vin accusé d'avoir concurrencé la SAQ" [Wine lover accused of competing against the SAQ].

The gist: An unnamed 38-year-old Montrealer is scheduled to appear in court on March 8 on charges of fraud and producing forged documents. The man, who operated under the psedonym Saint-Émilion, allegedly recruited clients on the wine formum www.crusetsaveurs.com by promising great wines at low prices. He would then buy the wines at www.winebid.com and other auction sites and have them delivered to a New York City hotel room. Once every other week he would travel to the Big Apple to collect the bottles but, on returning to Quebec, didn't declare the wine at the border. We're talking high end here: some of the bottles cost in excess of $1,000. His commission averaged around $50 a bottle. Even so, his prices were attractive: he sold an unspecified vintage of Château Margaux for $650 whereas the SAQ's price is $1,030. He is reported to have done business with around 40 individuals between August 2003 and October 2004. The SAQ got wind of the opearation and complained to the Sûreté du Québec, which caught him in a sting involving an officer who posed as a customer.

[jayt90]

Was this gentleman generally able to undercut the liquor board? Or just selected items? Over the years I have found the LCBO to be very defensive about prices, generally citing exceptions that are lower than New York City stores. But the differential has decreased, slowly and steadily. Still lots of good shopping for bargains in New York, however.

[carswell]

Yee haw!

The 2,300 members of the SAQ office and outlet employees' union have just voted to accept the proposed agreement, effectively ending the strike. The vote was 1,622 (76%) for and 473 against, with 18 abstensions. Part-time employees will be guaranteed a number of hours and full-time employees will be assured of at least one day off each weekend. The SAQ has committed to creating 220 full-time positions over the next three years, although 20 or so office jobs will be eliminated.

According to news reports, while some union members were pleased with the outcome, others openly expressed bitterness toward branch managers and promised to make life difficult for management upon their return.

All SAQ outlets will be closed Wednesday and Thursday for clean-up and stocking and will open on Friday. The schedule:

Fri., February 11: 12:00 to 21:00 (Express outlets open 'til 22:00)

Sat., February 12: 12:00 to 17:00 (Express outlets open 'til 22:00)

Sun., February 13: regular business hours resume.

The SAQ.com website will accept transactions and display product inventories as of noon on Friday.

edit: La Presse was wrong in claiming the agreement was for three years. Six years and three months is more like it: January 1, 2003, to March 31, 2009.

Edited February 9, 2005 by carswell (log)

[dutchrusk]

nice little editorial in la presse about saq and its greedy little ways. . .

SAQ: maintenant à nous…

Marc Londei

Ste-Julienne

Enfin, peut-être, la lumière au bout du tunnel de ce long conflit à la SAQ, à condition bien sûr que soit ratifiée l'entente par les membres du SEBM.

Ce sera certes un fastidieux retour au travail pour tous ces gens qui ont peiné et trimé dur pendant ces trois mois de grève, peiné financièrement, peiné contre le froid, les scabs et les gens nombrilistes et peu scrupuleux qui ont franchi les piquets de grève.

Nombreux sont ceux qui ont franchi la frontière ontarienne et fait leurs achats à la LCBO. Comme le mentionnait, à moins de me tromper d'auteur, Vincent Marissal dans un article antérieur, les coûts des vins du côté ontarien sont en moyenne 10% moins élevés qu'à notre chère SAQ (devrions nous maintenant dire «très chère» SAQ).

À titre d'exemple, même vin, même code, le Barcelo Penascal-Castilla Y Leon se vend 9,05$ à la LCBO contre 12,75$ à la SAQ. C'est pas mal plus que 10% de différence. Que vaut, aux Québécois, ce bonheur de payer à fort prix leurs produits? Serait-ce du surtaxage? Serait-ce la gourmandise de nos gouvernements?

Nos dirigeants de la SAQ vont sûrement s'empresser de nous refiler une nouvelle augmentation des prix, nouvelle convention collective oblige. La population a quelque peu été prise à partie lors de ce conflit et devra sûrement en faire les frais à nouveau, sans mot dire.

Passons donc un message clair à nos détrousseurs dits «légaux» de portefeuilles, continuons d'acheter ontarien, ceci rappellera peut-être à nos dirigeants que la population n'est pas aussi crédule qu'on voudrait bien le croire.

[ademello]

Does anyone know when the new releases will be out? I noticed that they snuck in a few Signature wines into the outlet at 440 De Maisoneuve, and I spotted a new California release as well as a couple of Australian (one of which was a durif!).

Also, are there any plans to "re-price" American wines given the strength of the Canadian dollar vs the US dollar vis a vis 12-18 months ago? It's criminal that the SAQ should get to enjoy a 25-35% extra profit at the consumer's expense.

[carswell]

Just pulled the following from a recently posted news release on www.saq.com (my empahsis):

Notez que deux nouveaux magasins s’ajoutent au réseau de succursales de la SAQ. Il s’agit de la SAQ Express du Carrefour Charlesbourg, 8 500, boulevard Henri-Bourassa, à Québec, ainsi que la SAQ Classique Terroirs d’ici du Marché Jean-Talon, 200, rue Jean-Talon Est, à Montréal.

[Please note that two new stores have been added to the SAQ network. They are the SAQ Express at the Carrefour Charlesbourg, 8500 Henri-Bourassa in Quebec City and the SAQ Classique Terroirs d’ici at the Jean-Talon Market, 200 Jean-Talon East in Montreal.]

If I'm not mistaken, 200 Jean-Talon East is the space occupied by the former SAQ Classique store. That would make the nearest regular SAQ store the new one going up (or gone up?) on the corner of Mozart and St-Laurent, a half block north of Milano.

Any guesses as to what the Terroirs d'ici store will do to wine sales at the Marché des saveurs?

edit: Out, out damn typo!

Edited February 10, 2005 by carswell (log)

[Slipstream]

The SAQs are reopening today (friday) at noon.

Having no car this is great news to me, as I couldn't drive to Ontario to get my precious botlles :)

[sf&m]

On Wednesday I noticed a big sign outside the Mozart/St Laurent SAQ announcing arrival of new wines..... I think it said for Thursday.......

[toto2]

Regarding SAQ du terroir and Marché des saveurs. First , Marché will be able to have stuff that SAQ dont have , because it is the wine makers that rent the space at Marché , so what is not available at SAQ will be at Marché. Talking to a producer in Saint-Pacôme a few years ago , (The SAq carries a few of their products) i learned that it is very difficult to have access to the SAQ , because you have to be able to deliver certain quantities , and their chimical analyse of these type of products are incredibly complex. So , Marché should be able to keep at least some of theire product.

But the biggest problem is that , a new law will make it impossible for Marché des saveurs to sell those products ! The producers will be able to sell their product only at their production plan ! (or the SAQ !) This should start in january 2006 (dont quote me for the dates!). Marché des saveurs is very unhappy with that , and they pan to do all they can to keep their right to sell those products. !

A thing that is important to understant is that Québec doesn't have a wine industry ! It is a lot of small artisants producing relativilly small amount of wines ! With only Marché des saveurs selling their products during the strike , they are now mostly out of stock !

[sf&m]

I stopped by SAQ Classique Terroirs at JTM today. Big F'n deal! Mostly French and Italian wines still there. They've pulled out maybe 2-3 shelve units of foreign wines and put in QC wines instead. Probaly 5-1 foreign to QC products. And they seem to love to cover all the "Mistelles", fruit blends etc. Local producers are not very deeply covered, not even L'Orpailleur is covered in full far as I could see. No effort to cover and present "serious" QC efforts in an organized way - feeble as that may be. So good news for Marche des Saveurs I guess. It's a bait'n switch far as I am concerned. And probaly prepping for sinking Marche des Saveurs store. That name is a joke. OK, so there is not that much QC products but then at least augument with other Canadian provinces if you need to fill the store. I guess they are not specifying wich Terroirs they ment to cover.

Marche des Saveurs stock did look ragged but they were loading in boxes for the weekend.

Some of the small producers are probably out of stock as mentioned.

MDS is an important outlet for small producers and people who want to reach them. I like to know more about this infernal "law" (now, there is a misnomer..) being passed, if anyone knows.

[carswell]

I stopped by SAQ Classique Terroirs at JTM today. Big F'n deal!  Mostly French and Italian wines still there. They've pulled out maybe 2-3 shelve units of foreign wines and put in QC wines instead.  Probaly 5-1 foreign to QC products. And they seem to love to cover all the "Mistelles", fruit blends etc.  Local producers are not very deeply covered, not even L'Orpailleur is covered in full far as I could see. No effort to cover and present "serious" QC efforts in an organized way - feeble as that may be. So good news for Marche des Saveurs I guess. It's a bait'n switch far as I am concerned. And probaly prepping for sinking Marche des Saveurs store. That name is a joke. OK, so there is not that much QC products but then at least augument with other Canadian provinces if you need to fill the store. I guess they are not specifying wich Terroirs they ment to cover.

←

Are you sure what you saw is the final product? The store appeared to be shuttered throughout the strike and the SAQ's managers were overworked just staffing the 40-odd stores that remained open. Also, all the stores went back on line today, which must be keeping the delivery people and other staff busy. In other words, I doubt anyone had much time to devote to the transformation. I wonder whether they didn't just open the TdI store to say it was open and will get around to expanding the inventory (assuming they can lay their hands on some) later.

I like to know more about this infernal "law" (now, there is a misnomer..) being passed, if anyone knows.

Looks like I don't have to work this weekend (first one off since Jan. 1!), so I should have some free time. Will see what I can turn up (if someone doesn't beat me to it).

[carswell]

MDS is an important outlet for small producers and people who want to reach them. I like to know more about this infernal "law" (now, there is a misnomer) being passed, if anyone knows.

←

Have looked through the National Assembly proceedings, the Official Gazette (through June 2004), the Act respecting the Société des alcools du Québec and the related regulations without turning up a reference to either last year's removal of Quebec wines, fortified wines and ciders from grocery store shelves (discussed at the end of the first page of this thread) or their rumoured pending removal from Quebec products stores. The following provision of the Act certainly indicates that the government can do whatever the hell it wants, though:

37.  The Government, upon the recommendation of the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Public Security, may make regulations

[...]

7) determining which wines and alcoholic beverages made or bottled by the Société or a brewer's, cider maker's or wine maker's permit holder, other than alcohol and spirits, may be sold by grocery permit holders;

8) determining, for grocery permit holders, the conditions and modalities of supplying, marketing and fixing the retail price of alcoholic beverages contemplated in paragraph 7;

Will call the SAQ and/or the Régie des jeux, &c. next week to see if someone can give us chapter and verse.

[sf&m]

Re: SAQ Classique Terroirs

I did ask them if the will bring in more QC wine and the clerk said no. But who knows.

They have redone the store with more attractive shelf units. However the "front unit" facing JTM is full of Italian and French wines - tells you something.

In all honesty you'd probably be hardpressed to fill the store with QC only wine. But next step would be ON and BC wines I would think. But perhaps they are "farther away" then the French and Italian wines - culturally speaking.

What got me was the presentation. Seems to me it's not made by someone with a deeper knowledge of developing QC wine producers.

But surely SAQ has it all worked out for the best....... lol.

[carswell]

In all honesty you'd probably be hardpressed to fill the store with QC only wine.

←

Isn't the Classique at the Atwater market (not the Sélection store on the other side of the street) a Terroirs d'ici outlet? While I've never set foot in it, I was under the impression they sold only local products. From the outside, their shelves look pretty full (it's a smaller space than 200 Jean-Talon East, I'll grant you). The Marché des saveurs "wine" room is fairly large, and didn't you or someone else here say they were runing out of space?

Anyway, if you put together a full range of Quebec wines, fortified wines, fruit wines, mistelles, meads, etc. and threw in a complete selection of locally-brewed beers, you could certainly fill a good part of the space at 200 Jean-Talon East, no?

But next step would be ON and BC wines I would think. But perhaps they are "farther away" then the French and Italian wines - culturally speaking.

Don't know about that. They're certainly using many of the hybrids Quebec wine growers are limited to. And they have provided the model for things like Quebec ice wine.

BTW, it strikes me that there may be at least one silver lining to this dark cloud. As the Terroirs stores are part of the SAQ's retail network, people located in remote areas should now be able to have the Quebec products on sale transferred to their local outlets. In other words, the availablilty of the products will be expanded beyond the producers' cellar doors and the big cities.

Edited February 14, 2005 by carswell (log)

[toto2]

Regarding my post about SAQ terroir and Marché des saveurs.

I went to my source to be sure of what i was saying about the new law affecting the selling of Québec wines and alcool. This is what my souce told me: It seemes that the wine and alcool artisant have the right to sell their products at the marché publique and at the production plan. But a lt of them got carried away and started to sell to depanneurs and supermarché in their erea of production. The governement obviously doesnt like it when somebody elses sell alcool , so they are " studying" what they will do and how. So this law is not a done deal , and Marché des saveur still dont know if they will be able to sell their wine after january 2006.

So there is still abit of hope !

[carswell]

Heads up. From March 3 through March 6, the SAQ is holding what is rumoured to be the first in a series of clearance sales. Discounts of up to 30% on well over a hundred products. What's more, some of them are actually stuff you might buy. For example:

Graham LBV Port 1998, $14.95 (normally $20.90)

Château La Roque 2001, Pic-Saint-Loup, $17.05 ($18.90)

Pinot Noir 2002, Yarra Valley, Coldstream Hills, $27.70 ($30.75)

Fresia 1997, Kyè, Vajra, $28 ($35)

Torre dei Venti 2001, Insola, Fazio, $12.95 ($16.85)

Côtes-du-Rhône rosé 2003, Guigal, $16.50 ($20.10)

Neige 2003, Ice Cider (200 ml), $13.55 ($15.05)

Click here and then follow the links to the various categories. (If the link doesn't work, just go to www.saq.com and click on the front page banner ad.)

Edited March 4, 2005 by carswell (log)

[carswell]

Just received the latest circular from the Signature store. At $500 a 750-ml bottle, Louis Latour's 2002 Montrachet Grand Cru may strike you as a bit spendy. On the other hand, it seems downright affordable next the the 2000 Le Pin, a small production Pomerol much lauded by Parker and retailing for a cool $3,495.

[carswell]

SAQ Signature has just announced a sale from Thursday, April 7, through Sunday, April 10. Ten percent off all purchases of $100 or more. In other words, you'll save $350 on that 2000 Le Pin.

(They also have a nice selection of $25-50 bottles, by the way. Won't know until tomorrow whether the sale is limited to the two Signature stores or applies to all outlets.)

[Mr. Fagioli]

Thanks for these updates, Carswell. They're much appreciated, even if they're not always practical...(ummm, the 2000 Le Pin? Thanks, but I think I'll wait til it's on the wine list at Globe for $15K or so, so all hotties can see me order it).

Edited April 6, 2005 by Mr. Fagioli (log)

[wattacetti]

The 2000 Léoville Las Cases (100 points by both Wine Spectator and Robert Parker for those keeping track) is still available at the Signature in downtown Montreal. I bought mine in Alberta so to me it's a bit pricey at $500 a bottle ($450 with the sale), but it's a great wine and perhaps a better purchase than the Le Pin for those of us who aren't that wild about garagiste Merlots.

Hmm… I've just realized that for the same price as the Le Pin, you can buy a bottle of the Léoville and a Transtherm Mas wine cellar from Vinum Design to store it in and still have money left over for a meal at La Chronique.

[carswell]

Looks like the 10% discount applies to all products in all outlets.

Here are a few reccos recently tasted. Prices do not include the discount.

- The 2001 Scotchman's Hill Shiraz comes from a cool-climate region and shows a finesse I often find missing in Oz wines. A few bottles remain in the system, most accessibly at saq.com. Around $38.

- 2003 Burgundy from Domaine des Perdrix. Perfumed, dense and rich at the start, it only gets better as it breathes. Not your typical Burg, however; 2003 was a very hot year. Around $30.

- 2001 Cupa Numismae from Château La Roque in the Pic Saint Loup region of the Languedoc ($29). Classy blend of syrah and mouvèdre that sees 15 months in French oak. Quite concentrated with the syrah dominating at this point. Too animal, too savoury-sour to be mistaken for a New World wine. I like.

- 2003 Nero d'Avola from Rapitala. Made from the indigenous Sicilian grape but in a sweet shirazy style, it's a steal at $14.

- Boony Doon's 2001 Charbono. Dense, dark and juicy. Not what you'd call a multi-faceted wine but saved from hohumness by a complex bouquet, pure fruit, rustic but soft tannins and that faintly bitter aftertaste typical of so many Italian wines if rare in their New World doppelgangers. Turns out charbonno may be the same grape as dolcetto, and you can see the resemblence, though there's no mistaking the BD for an Old World product. While it's no bargain at $30, I'll probably pick up another bottle, especially as it clocks in at a reasonable 12.5% alc./vol.

- 2001 Château des Jacques, Moulin-à-Vent, Louis Jadot. Delicious now but with the requisite stuffing to age another five or ten years. Pricey at $27.80 but worth it. Puts many similarly priced Burgundies to shame. (This coming from someone whose slogan has long been "Life is too short to spend it drinking gamay.") The perfect accompaniment to a lapin à la cauchoise (I have a new jar of Grey Poupon and a tub of Liberty crème fraîche in my fridge and a rabbit on order for the weekend).

- The 2002 dry reds and whites from the Loire look to be outstanding: Muscadet, Chinon, Bourgeuil, Vouvray, Sancerre, etc. This region remains one of the best sources of affordable, food-friendly wines, provided you aren't looking for gobs o' fruit and oak.

[carswell]

Thanks for these updates, Carswell. They're much appreciated, even if they're not always practical...(ummm, the 2000 Le Pin? Thanks, but I think I'll wait til it's on the wine list at Globe for $15K or so, so all hotties can see me order it).

←

I should have thrown in a smiley or two or gone with my original "a jaw-dropping $3,495." Don't know who buys these bottles but it sure as hell ain't me. Anyway, as I say, Signature has a number of wines well within the reach of mere mortals. And it turns out the 10% sale is system-wide.

The 2000 Léoville Las Cases (100 points by both Wine Spectator and Robert Parker for those keeping track) is still available at the Signature in downtown Montreal. I bought mine in Alberta so to me it's a bit pricey at $500 a bottle ($450 with the sale), but it's a great wine and perhaps a better purchase than the Le Pin  for those of us who aren't that wild about garagiste Merlots.

←

The funny thing is that almost every sensible critic prefers the other Pomerol made by one of Le Pin's owners, Vieux Château Certan, which you could buy a case of for the price of a single bottle of Le Pin.

Afraid that even with the discount the LLC is far beyond my means. Unfortunately, because the estate is one of my favourites. Haven't bought any second growths since 1994, the last year they were sorta, kinda affordable. The 2000 must be fabulous. Bully to you for getting some.

[Mr. Fagioli]

OK, time for a serious question to those more knowledgeable than me:

I'll admit I'm a man of modest budget at the moment, but I can spare a c-note for a little shopping trip to the SAQ, and my local store happens to be a Sélection.

I'll also confess that my wine knowledge is sorely lacking. As a fairly recent ex-smoker, I'm still in the early phases of retraining/reawakening my tastebuds.

Food tastes run to fairly simple Hazan-inspired Italian country cuisine (the handle ain't for nothing), strongly spiced dishes (curries, chiles, etc.), relatively unadorned seafood, grilled meats (hurrah for BBQ season)...

So: any suggestions on good values that would allow me to walk away with no less than four -- dare I say five -- bottles?

Thanks!

Edited April 8, 2005 by Mr. Fagioli (log)

[wattacetti]

The funny thing is that almost every sensible critic prefers the other Pomerol made by one of Le Pin's owners, Vieux Château Certan, which you could buy a case of for the price of a single bottle of Le Pin.

Afraid that even with the discount the LLC is far beyond my means. Unfortunately, because the estate is one of my favourites. Haven't bought any second growths since 1994, the last year they were sorta, kinda affordable. The 2000 must be fabulous. Bully to you for getting some.

←

I was offered the Certan and didn't spring for it because I'm not wild about Pomerol. In hindsight I probably should not have gone so overboard with the 2000 Bordeaux as it's made it harder to go after the interesting stuff that's come out since their release. I'll probably hold true to form and repeat the error on the 2003s but one of these days I'll tone it down.

As for the 2000 LLC, I don't know much about it yet - it's on the "hold for my retirement" rack.

[wattacetti]

Food tastes run to fairly simple Hazan-inspired Italian country cuisine (the handle ain't for nothing), strongly spiced dishes (curries, chiles, etc.), relatively unadorned seafood, grilled meats (hurrah for BBQ season)...

So: any suggestions on good values that would allow me to walk away with no less than four -- dare I say five -- bottles?

←

For a C-note, you could go as high as 6 or 7 bottles if you're adventurous and willing to try a lot of different regions: there's a lot of stuff in the $12-20 range that are good to great buys that pair well with food (e.g. the Lurton Pinot Gris from Argentina is a good sipping wine that pairs nicely with "unadorned" seafood and stuff with a bit of spice).

Suggest you ask someone at the Sélection and describe your particular tastes in wine and what you like to eat. I'm sure you're going to come back with a lot of interesting surprises.