Shopped

[Romaney O'Malley]

has anyone seen the new trains station ads for a certain supermart? "10 sausages for 49p - Daft" - I agree and not in a good way

[Duncan]

This Article in the Guardian will come as no surpise to most people who know about the practice of injecting cheap intensively-reared pork with water (presumably in order to give it a fake  'juiciness'). It's pleasing though to see a Trading Standards Institute coming out clearly against the practice - even if it is legal.

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The Consumer's Association recently reported that Tesco has stopped adding water to its 'Finest' Pork chops, so I went to my local Tesco and checked. It is true: their 'finest' pork chops and steaks no longer claim added water and don't have an ingredients list on the back either.

My faith in Tesco was restored, however, when I noticed that they are now selling 'Extra Value' pork steaks with added water and glucose...

[binkyboots]

mmm....

I've read this post, twice in fact, and am working my way through the book.

I shop for a family of usually three adults, sometimes five, depends which relatives are in during the week.

We live entirely on my husband's disability benefits and income support payments, it certainly forces me to be imaginative when shopping as that is definately not a huge budget, that money also pays our bills and petrol.

it goes a bit like this, I prioritise fruit, veg and meat, I prefer organics when I can get it, I do a lot of braises and stews to make good use of cheaper cuts, oxtail, shanks and lamb neck are favorites here. if I cant afford the organics I just try to find the best of the rest, even if it means a bit of trekking around.

I get most of my fruit, veg and meat from the friday market at my niece's school, the meat there is very good, the lady butchers it on her own farm so you can request any cut, I request the ugly bits!

I shop at lidls a lot, their canned tomatoes, olive oil, bread flour (ok, it's not organic, but on economy weeks it's still a cut above a bog standard white sliced wet loaf) cleaning products (except washing powder, I buy an enormous box of fairy twice a year, works out very cheap) their fruit juices are excellent if you check that it's a pure juice not a drink mix. Their fruit and veg is very hit or miss, their vine tomatoes tend to be great in summer, they smell like proper greenhouse tomatoes, avocados are usually crap though, the mixed salad is ok, I like to mix in some fresh herbs though to pep it up a bit. Their cheese is pretty good value, mozzarella, certainly good enough for cooking and as good as most supermarket's own brands, the feta is good too, well, I like it The butter, at least in our store is fine for cooking.

They also do a nice bag of mixed dried fruits for £1.40 it's got prunes, pears, apples and apricots, soaked overnight in apple juice they are delicious. Oh, the lidls 29p natural yoghurt is nice too.

it's not glamorous, but once you get past the council estate/tacky/boring/dare I say snob factor it's surprisingly good.

I buy tinned beans, pulses and the bulk of our bread flour at real foods, they sell fresh yeast too.

Loo roll, dog food, cat food and litter, milk, some fruit and veg, these are still supermarket buys... I'm working on it though. when I get the time I go to our local food co-op, they sell fruit, veg and basics at cost price.

I must say, every single time I hear how the british public are demanding "cheap meat" it makes me want to scream, the majority of people on low incomes would love to aspire to something more exciting than a packet of 47p sausages, but the harsh truth is that on benefits you just dont always have the choice. Sure, I'd rather shop at small butchers, know my suppliers and visit the farmers market for all our shopping, but I cant so I prioritise, my family's health is at the top, then I look at other factors, fairtrade, local foods etc.

If you want I'll show you this weeks menu, document where I get the stuff and how much it comes to...

Edited January 17, 2005 by binkyboots (log)

[MobyP]

I think that would be a fantastic diary to read. Perhaps also, if you wanted, something that other people could contribute ideas to.

Edited January 17, 2005 by MobyP (log)

[binkyboots]

Perhaps also, if you wanted, something that other people could contribute ideas to.

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ideas are always welcome, braises are good but I think I may eventually reach the point where the family revolt if they find out I started cooking dinner at breakfast time, again >.< it's a texture thing I think, lol

Edited January 17, 2005 by binkyboots (log)

[Syrah]

I find myself buying less and less from the supermarket each week. I go to the green grocer, the butcher, the fishmonger, the chinese grocery, the deli. I only go to the supermarket for things I cannot get elsewhere. Luckiliy for me, I have these shops within one complex, but it still takes additional time to do it. I have to say that I really don't mind. Everything I buy is fresh. The same employees are there everyweek and they do care if I come back or not. I have also found that I have saved money by doing this.. meat and veggies are heaps cheaper in smaller shops.

[Carlovski]

I shop at lidls a lot, their canned tomatoes, olive oil, bread flour (ok, it's not organic, but on economy weeks it's still a cut above a bog standard white sliced wet loaf) cleaning products (except washing powder, I buy an enormous box of fairy twice a year, works out very cheap) their fruit juices are excellent if you check that it's a pure juice not a drink mix.  Their fruit and veg is very hit or miss, their vine tomatoes tend to be great in summer, they smell like proper greenhouse tomatoes, avocados are usually crap though, the mixed salad is ok, I like to mix in some fresh herbs though to pep it up a bit.  Their cheese is pretty good value, mozzarella, certainly good enough for cooking and as good as most supermarket's own brands, the feta is good too, well, I like it    The butter, at least in our store is fine for cooking.

They also do a nice bag of mixed dried fruits for £1.40 it's got prunes, pears, apples and apricots, soaked overnight in apple juice they are delicious.  Oh, the lidls 29p natural yoghurt is nice too.

it's not glamorous, but once you get past the council estate/tacky/boring/dare I say snob factor it's surprisingly good.

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See, another Lidl fan!

A lot of the stuff is genuinely better than you can get at the supermarket, regardless of the fact it is also a lot cheaper.

The Olive oil is ok (I may have repeated myself here), the chorizo quite good as are the salamis and other sausage related products. Some of the veg can be very good, the Parmesan is better than the stuff they sell in the supermarket (I think it is longer aged for a start) and the Mozarella is fine for pizzas and pasta dishes (Wouldn't use it for salad).

Some of the dark chocolate isn't even too bad.

It's also very entertaining going in and wondering exactly why someone is buying 96 tins of hot dogs.... (I think they were students)

I'm moving house soon, away from my Lidl, but thankfully closer to butchers, greengrocers etc. Still need to track down a Fishmongers though (I live in a Port for god's sake, surely there must be a fishmongers?)

[Suzi Edwards]

Possibly not if there's a large supermarket with a fish counter nearby.

[Carlovski]

Possibly not if there's a large supermarket with a fish counter nearby.

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That would be a start - My local supermarket used to have a fish counter but it was removed - supposedly beacuse customers preferred prepackaged fish....

There is a Waitrose in Southampton with a half decent fish counter - but it involves tackling the horrors of the shopping centre.

[silverbrow]

I realise this thread has been dead for a bit but I wanted to add my 2p and bring it back on topic.

I'm currently wading through this book. Fundamentally I agree that supermarkets are limiting our options and in part adding to the ongoing ignorance of the British food buying market.

However, I feel that in much of the book Blythman shoots herself in the foot. There are many examples of her contradicting herself and her argument is very one sided.

The most blatant contradiction is her sweeping statement that food purchasing on continental Europe is totally different to that we experience in the UK. She conjours up street markets in little Normandy villages, or Provencal hillsides. However, she then goes on to refer to the likes of Carrefour, Casino and Ahold in the same breath as Tesco, Sainsbury's et al. As such, she seems so intent on proving her point that the supermarket phenomena is unique to the UK that she blanks out all other information that points to the contrary. The significance of this, is that if in France or wherever they're able to have a combination of the street markets and the supermarkets then there is hope for us. I realise in the UK we don't have the ingrained history of daily/weekly markets but nonetheless those markets that do exist are growing and entering general consciousness. I also think that with things like Jamie's Dinners that appeal to a mass audience there is a growing awareness (not just amongst the chattering classes) of the importance of knowing about the food we eat.

As for her one-sided argument she constantly casts the supplier as the poor innocent dupe and the consumer squeezed between this end-of-the-world struggle between supermarket and supplier. She goes to great length quoting anonymous suppliers noting what supermarkets had done to them and across the board it comes across as heinous. But all I keep thinking is, they would say that wouldn't they. It is obviously a good thing that Blythman has given the suppliers the opportunity to have a voice but I can't help but feel that if they were a bit more organised - formed some sort of collective - they would have far more power with supermarkets. Blythman might respond that this gives the supermarkets the excuse to increase their own brand products that she intimates is their end goal but I disagree with this. I fail to see how consumers will be weened off their branded goods on to own brand items, whether we're talking food or non-food items. Clearly there is a market for own brand, but I think the problems that M&S have faced is a clear example where once the own-brand gets even slightly tainted, perception takes a nose-dive on the whole lot.

Finally, she makes no reference to the importance supermarkets play in keeping the prices down on non-food items. Interestingly it is non-food items that they are increasingly moving viz Tesco and Asda. You might argue this proves her point, that they are squeezing food down to the minimum, serving the lowest quality at the highest price. The flip side to that coin is their acceptance that they can't offer us the quality we're now demanding, we're widening our food shopping horizons and therefore they are branching out in to new profit centres.

As I said at the beginning, the book is well intentioned with many good points. But, I feel it is overly simplistic in its analysis and as such might be unconvincing to many, which is a shame because fundamentally she has point.

[Suzi Edwards]

Finally, she makes no reference to the importance supermarkets play in keeping the prices down on non-food items. 

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Interesting points about her arguement. What sort of non-food items are you talking about? I personally find the statistic that Tesco sells 15% of all chart CDs terrifying and I only see the supermarket hegemony growing stronger. If it carries on like this we'll soon only have one place to go to buy *everything*

That said, I did find myself in Satanburies recently and was impressed that they seem to have a much wider range of UK grown produce than I have ever seen before.

[MobyP]

That said, I did find myself in Satanburies recently and was impressed that they seem to have a much wider range of UK grown produce than I have ever seen before.

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They had better. I'm running out of ways to convince Kate that she's consuming jet fuel with all those American apples and that South African veg.

[silverbrow]

I was referring to all non-food items, whether CDs, clothes or cleaning products. I agree that Tesco having 15% of sales does sound scary but there is no doubt that the choices exist to buy your CDs elsewhere, whether that's independent shops, HMV and the like or various web sites. Equally, just because one company sells a large slug of total items it is not cause for concern. For example, somewhere like WH Smith probably accounts for a large percentage of all newspaper and magazine sales, yet you don't hear the local newsagent up in arms.

Clothes is the obvious example where the supermarkets are really spreading their wings. Asda has opened up George only stores, they sell nothing but food. Maybe they are looking for even more ways to take cash out of our pockets and on to their profit and loss account, but they don't pose a threat to other clothes stores, because there are so many of them.

I don't like supermarkets and do my best not to shop in them. I think Blythman's point about the lack of seasonality is spot-on, but I'm not sure we can solely blame supermarkets for this. They certainly haven't helped but we need to see them in the context of wider societal trends - the overriding one at the moment, that supermarkets pander to, is "I want it, and I want it now."

[CHARCUTIER]

This is my first post on egullet, so please be gentle!

The link between the CDs on offer in major supermarkets with the poor quality of food offers a clue as to the malaise we are facing. All the CDs in the supermarkets come from popular chart artists, generally with little artistic intergrity and even less artistic merit. But their undeniable success is largely due to the massive advertisement and marketing promotion that they enjoy. In our media saturated world, the TV/radio/internet tells us exactly which artists we like - and it takes a reactionary to disagree. Or at least it takes someone who genuinely likes music, and wants to spend time discovering alternatives.

The exact same process operates on the foods we buy. Small shops simply do not have the resources to compete with the large supermarkets in terms of advertising and marketing. Better food is available, but only for those who care enough to find it. Don't blame the supermarkets, the consumer or the high-street butcher - blame market forces and the power of advertising!

It should also be noted (as it has been above on this thread) that not everyone can aford to care about food. This is not necessarily because good food is more expensive, but because good food requires a larger time investment. For instance, a cheap cut of good meat will provide a more satisfying meal than a supermarket steak, but it will first involve going to a butchers (where you can't buy your cat litter at the same time), and secondly probably a much longer cooking time. Clearly, this is not something that affects the users of this forum - we all seem to have enough time to write posts and read ingredient lists! - but it is a serious consideration elsewhere. Opening times are also of crucial importance - why do good butchers and fishmongers all close so early?

Right - this post is much longer than it was supposed to be. I promise not to be so verbose in future.

[MobyP]

Welcome to eGullet, Charcutie. Well de-lurked.

[silverbrow]

Charcutier, welcome.

I agree with you about the homogeneity of so many things whether food or CDs. As for why fishmongers et al don't open later I agree. It goes back to my point about suppliers forming a collective: it's all very well complaining about things but why not adapt to the problems you face and solve the problems head on. If decent butchers were open later, I'm sure more people would use them. Obviously though, there might be some argument that if they open they'll have to charge more, making them even less competitive than the supermarkets.

[Jonathan Day]

Charcutier, welcome.

I agree with you about the homogeneity of so many things whether food or CDs.  As for why fishmongers et al don't open later I agree.  It goes back to my point about suppliers forming a collective: it's all very well complaining about things but why not adapt to the problems you face and solve the problems head on.  If decent butchers were open later, I'm sure more people would use them.  Obviously though, there might be some argument that if they open they'll have to charge more, making them even less competitive than the supermarkets.

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Moxon's is a fishmonger -- the proprietor was formerly a chef/restaurateur -- who has opened just outside the Clapham South tube station. He's open Tuesday-Friday from early in the morning until 8 pm, and on Saturdays until around 6 pm. The fish are fresh and good, and the staff are friendly and knowledgeable. It's a pleasant stop on the way home to pick up fish (or confit duck legs, or soup) for dinner. And the prices, for the quality you get, are more than reasonable. £10 for a fish that is flabby and tasteless isn't a bargain against £15 for one that is full of flavour.

It does help that he's open later. It's hard to get to the butcher I prefer on Northcote Road, except on Saturdays.

[Suzi Edwards]

Most butchers and fishmongers open quite early so it's often possible to pick up stuff on the way to work rather than moaning that nowhere's open on the way back :-)

[silverbrow]

Suzi

That is a fair point. Decent fishmongers like Steve Hatt are open early and by going in before work you're pretty much sure of being able to choose from the best of their stock.

[CHARCUTIER]

Suzi,

I'm amused to be accused of moaning so early in my participation on this forum. It's true - I like moaning almost as much as eating. But just one question: do you feel comfortable sharing your desk at work with a couple of spider crab? Even if you do benefit from access to a fridge at work, certain foods are simply too antisocial: my colleagues were particulalry shocked when I stored 2 (admittedly rather high) grouse in the fridge for a day.

My point (or moan) is a simple one: supermarkets clearly find it profitable to open late, so why don't independent shops? Am I missing something obvious here?

[Winot]

I personally find the statistic that Tesco sells 15% of all chart CDs terrifying and I only see the supermarket hegemony growing stronger.

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The disparity between the quality of the music (and associated service) at Tesco and that at an independent music shop is if anything even broader than the analogous disparity in the case of food. This is because the majority of the public have no desire to buy anything other than bland mass-produced product (in music or food).

Who was it who said that no one ever lost money by under-estimating the taste of the general public?

EDIT - written before having read Charcutier's post, who said it better.

Edited March 15, 2005 by Winot (log)

[Suzi Edwards]

Suzi,

I'm amused to be accused of moaning so early in my participation on this forum. It's true - I like moaning almost as much as eating. But just one question: do you feel comfortable sharing your desk at work with a couple of spider crab? Even if you do benefit from access to a fridge at work, certain foods are simply too antisocial: my colleagues were particulalry shocked when I stored 2 (admittedly rather high) grouse in the fridge for a day.

My point (or moan) is a simple one: supermarkets clearly find it profitable to open late, so why don't independent shops? Am I missing something obvious here?

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I didn't realise you had posted about places not being open later. I wasn't actually refering to you.

For me the choice is clear. If I want fish I go to the fishmongers. Sometimes I go at the weekend and freeze the fish, sometimes I go in the morning. I would rather do that than the secondary choice of buying fish from the supermarket. Because if I don't find a way to go to the fishmonger, soon it will be closed and then I'll have to go to the supermarket. And I'd rather pull out and fry my own tongue than eat fish from Satanburies.

To answer your second point I think the reason why fishmongers don't open later is that they're up very early. I believe Billingsgate fish market opens at about 3.00am. Of course entrepreneurial fishmongers like Moxons do open later because they are in an area that will support it. I think there's a butchers in Hammersmith that does the same. Maybe independant retailers could take a leaf out of the supermarket's books and stay open all night?

I just think we've ended up in a world of instant gratification. I, personally, don't think that the world is a better place because I can buy trimmed fine beans from Kenya and a family size box of Quality Street at 3.00am. Nor do I believe that independant shopkeepers, who have a hard enough time of it as it is with the supermarket threat, should stay open later and have a lower quality of life to make my life easier.

I'll take my hair shirt off now.

[Suzi Edwards]

But just one question: do you feel comfortable sharing your desk at work with a couple of spider crab?

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You've heard about our new hot desking policy? It's insane, crustacea everywhere.

Joking aside, I would use the fridge.

[Sackville]

Just wanted to chip in and say that I have been "supermarket free" (aside from the occasional foray into Waitrose) for about a year now and never been happier with the quality of my food.

However, I am very fortunate to have a market with fresh veg near work and some local Turkish shops which also provide fresh produce at good prices. I also make a run about once a month to a quality butcher for meat, which I then divide up and freeze for the weeks to come.

I acknowledge that it takes more time and in some regards the food is more expensive. Overall I'm not sure if I spend that much more overall because I tend to buy far less processed food and the savings of cooking with simpler, seasonal ingredients certainly helps.

What "broke" my dependence on Tesco et al was the constant poor quality of their produce. I would get a box of strawberries home and discover mold at the bottom. I'd buy tomatoes and they'd be off before their "best before" date. This happened repeatedly and I decided if the produce was of that "quality" the rest of the food didn't bear thinking about. Once I started shopping around, I found the Turkish markets MUCH cheaper (like half the price) for produce.

[CheGuevara]

Just wanted to chip in and say that I have been "supermarket free" (aside from the occasional foray into Waitrose) for about a year now and never been happier with the quality of my food.

However, I am very fortunate to have a market with fresh veg near work and some local Turkish shops which also provide fresh produce at good prices. I also make a run about once a month to a quality butcher for meat, which I then divide up and freeze for the weeks to come.

I acknowledge that it  takes more time and in some regards the food is more expensive. Overall I'm not sure if I spend that much more overall because I tend to buy far less processed food and the savings of cooking with simpler, seasonal ingredients certainly helps.

What "broke" my dependence on Tesco et al was the constant poor quality of their produce. I would get a box of strawberries home and discover mold at the bottom. I'd buy tomatoes and they'd be off before their "best before" date. This happened repeatedly and I decided if the produce was of that "quality" the rest of the food didn't bear thinking about. Once I started shopping around, I found the Turkish markets MUCH cheaper (like half the price) for produce.

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reading your post got me thinking...last time i bought something from a supermarket must have been back in june of last year. that's a happy and unexpected thought.

-che

Edited March 22, 2005 by CheGuevara (log)