Coming to the Great White North, Have Questions

[ExtraMSG]

Will be making about a three day trip to Vancouver and then Victoria. Am very interested in the Granville Market, but I'd probably need to go on Friday or Sunday, maybe around noonish. Which day is better? Is it like many markets where Saturday is the best day or is it pretty consistent? How does it compare to Pike Place Market in Seattle or the Ferry Building Market in San Francisco? How long is the ferry trip to and from?

Also, I'll probably have one dinner and maybe one lunch in Vancouver and one lunch and dinner or more in Victoria. What would you choose? Would prefer something that would be difficult to find outside of the area or that emphasises some unique aspect of Vancouver. Upscale or ethnic is totally fine.

[HKDave]

Granville Island market: Friday less crowded, otherwise not much diff. Not as good as Seattle or SF markets. The ferry is 5 minutes and is not needed unless you're coming on foot from downtown - you can drive or walk onto Granville Island by land from the South....

If I had one meal in Vancouver, I would go for dim sum for lunch. Vancouver dim sum is the best in the world. My old fave is still the Pink Pearl on the less-than-salubrious part of Hastings St, but many say there are many others just as good in nicer parts of town.

If it had to be a dinner, Tojo's for sushi (sit at the bar, and let Tojo choose for you). Again, there are those who would say other sushi places are better but Tojo has delivered for me for 20 years.

I'm not up on the latest hot swank western places in Vancouver, but going by the talk in this thread, I'm tempted to do the chef's table at West for my next visit. I'm totally out of the loop on Victoria.

[ExtraMSG]

My wife and I aren't big sushi fans. I've heard Richmond has the best dim sum, any thoughts?

[HKDave]

Richmond has great dim sum. Many of the big Vancouver Cantonese restuarants have branches there, so the food quality is basically the same. No. 3 Road is like a very weird suburb of Hong Kong. You shouldn't go wrong with any of these:

Sun Sui Wah 102-4940 No. 3 Rd., Richmond, 604-273-8208

Richmond Mandarin 8181 Cambie Road, Richmond, 604-270-3003

Kirin 200-7900 Westminster Hwy., Richmond 604-303-8833

There are some longish Richmond dim sum threads over on Chowhound.

[Daddy-A]

I should start this post by mentioning how helpful ExtraMSG and all the Portland folk have been with planning my trip to the BREWFEST next month ... This is what makes eGullet so great!

Granville Island is perhaps a bit more touristy than the Pike Place Market (can't comment on SF ... never been) but I'll disagree with HK Dave in that it is just different than Pike Place. I guess it all depends on what you're looking for.

Granville Island is more than just a market ... there are many restaurants, an art school or two, many artist shops, and then there's the Mariners' Market for the boat-set. I agree Friday is best ... less crowded. The vendors in the Market are pretty much the same every day. A few "artisans" change their place in the market from day to day ... but the produce, seafood, butchers, bakers, etc. are the same. We do have several farmer's markets which I can't compare to Portland's, although I suspect our's are smaller.

All of Dave's Dim Sum rec's are great ... if you want to spend time in Richmond. No offence, but Richmond isn't the most interesting part of "Vancouver", with the exception of Steveston. Sun Sui Wah has a Vancouver location on Main Street.

This thread [click here] discusses a lot of the local hot spots. I'd add a trip to Commercial Drive if you're looking for something quinticentialy Vancouver. Very "Haight-Ashbury" but on a smaller scale. Our version of Italy meets Brazil meets El Salvador meets Belgium ... or something like that. Great food, amazing coffee, and terrific people watching.

Victoria ... try Cafe Brio, Zambir's, Paprika ... Sam's Deli near the harbour is a great sandwchich spot too.

When are you coming up? Where are you staying ... that would also help with the rec's.

DA

[Sam Salmon]

If it's somewhere "that emphasises some unique aspect of Vancouver" then http://www.liliget.com/ is the place for you.

Featuring the best of NW Coast indigenous cuisine Liliget is unique in both appearance and content and an experience not to be missed.

[ExtraMSG]

I'm actually coming up next weekend. I think I'm going to try to hit Noodle Boat for dinner on Thursday night in Issaquah, Washington, then stay the night somewhere cheap between the border and Seattle. Then head on up, either do a quick tour of the city or go directly to Granville Island and spend a couple hours. Then go get some lunch (or lunch first, depending on how things go; I need to Mapquest this) and spend some more time touring. Then dinner and the ferry over to Victoria, assuming it runs somewhat late. I'm not sure where we're staying in Victoria yet.

It's a family thing and the reservations are already made. I'm sure it's in Victoria proper, though, and that we'll be stuck eating with others (though with them paying) and so probably won't venture too far, so Sooke Harbor House is probably out of the question. That's all I know at this point. If I get some suggestions for Victoria to my family soon enough I might have influence. My grandfather and his wife are amateur gourmets as well.

Is Richmond a pain to get around in and how is parking? How's parking in downtown? Do you guys have a trolley, light rail, monorail, or subway system to speak of?

[HKDave]

Is Richmond a pain to get around in and how is parking?  How's parking in downtown?  Do you guys have a trolley, light rail, monorail, or subway system to speak of?

Richmond's easy if you're driving (especially if approaching from the USA), but basically impossible without a car. All of the Richmond places mentioned above are in or near malls on #3 Road, so parking isn't a big problem.

Parking in downtown is better than average for a typical city, although Vancouverites still complain about it.

Vancouver does have a 'Skytrain' but it's fairly pathetic and can be ignored by visitors. Other than that, there are buses....

I respectfully disagree with my learned associates Daddy-A (re Commercial Drive) and Sam Salmon (re Liliget). I wouldn't bother with either.

Edit - punctuation....

Edited June 6, 2004 by HKDave (log)

[Daddy-A]

I think I'm going to try to hit Noodle Boat for dinner on Thursday night in Issaquah, Washington, then stay the night somewhere cheap between the border and Seattle.  Then head on up, either do a quick tour of the city or go directly to Granville Island and spend a couple hours ... Then dinner and the ferry over to Victoria, assuming it runs somewhat late. 

Wow! ... tight schedule!

Regarding the Ferry to Victoria: If you're not already aware, be sure you make a reservation. The website is here. It'll cost you $15 for the res, but on a weekend it's a no-brainer ... you either spend the $15 or wait in the parking lot for 3 hours. The last sailing that weekend is 9pm.

Since you're tight on time, I'd go with Granville Island. If you take the Oak Street Bridge in (you'll still be on Hwy 99) I believe you'll see Granville Island signs at about 12th Ave ... Broadway for sure. Mapquest can be dodgy with Vancouver sometimes. PM me if you think you need help.

You'll park right on Granville Island and walk everywhere. Given your schedule, do lunch there as well. Grab some food from the market and picnic down by the Granville Island Hotel, or watch the buskers near La Baguette. Restaurants on the Island are pretty good (man do I miss Mulvaney's). They're all a bit touristy given the location, but Bridges or The Sand Bar would be my choices. You can do Dim Sum in Richmond on your way back to the ferry if you've booked the 9pm sailing. You shouldn't rush dim sum!

Our SkyTrain doesn't do North-South very well ... which I suspect is HKDave's issue with it. Great for locals like my wife ... or families like mine who use it to go to Commercial Drive on Saturday

DA

[Sam Salmon]

With all due respect if I had one only meal in Vancouver I wouldn't bother with Dim Sum.

Greasy little plates of godknowswhat have never done it for me.

There are so many excellent restaurants downtown there's no need to travel to a suburban wasteland-save time and hassle stay downtown.

Edited June 5, 2004 by Sam Salmon (log)

[Daddy-A]

There are so many excellent restaurants downtown there's no need to travel to a suburban wasteland-save time and hassle stay downtown.

AMEN!

DA

[annanstee]

I got the feeling you might be asking about the ferry crossing between Victoria and Vancouver, which is, I think, 45 mins?

I would go to "C". Robert Clark emphasizes carefully sourced,local ingredients, and unbelievable and innovative seafood. The room is right on the water and very contemporary. It is a five minute ferry ride from there to Granville Island, which, in my opinion, way better than Pike Place, excepting those fish guys. I would definitely do Granville Island on the Friday, as Sunday will be an absolute zoo, esp. if it is sunny. You could go to lunch there and then ferry over to Granville Island.

[ExtraMSG]

I read about C and it did sound pretty good. How long does dinner there usually take? Some upscale places can take pretty long. If the last ferry to Victoria is at 9 pm, then I might not be able to make it.

[HKDave]

The car ferry to Victoria leaves from Tsawwassen, about 45 min south of Vancouver (it's closer to US border, and to Richmond, than to Vancouver). Time on the water is 1.5 -2 hrs depending on which boat you catch, and schedules are here: http://www.bcferries.com/schedules/mainlan...sw-current.html

So unless you plan to have an early dinner at C and not drink very much, the 9pm ferry would not be a good plan. Lunch would work better.

[Daddy-A]

I agree with HKDave here ... the timing isn't very good for dinner at C ... unless it's an early one.

Let's work backwards here:

With a reservation for the 9pm boat, you have to be through the gates by 8:30. I'd allow an hour to get ther "just in case" which means you're in your car driving by 7:30. If you've gone to C by the Harbour Ferry, you'll want to be out of the restaurant by 7 ... which means (in my world) you're starting dinner at 4:30 at the latest. I think Lunch would be better.

I guess my only concern is if you miss the 9pm boat, you're waiting until the next morning to get to Victoria.

DA

Edit - Just checked ... according to the website, C doesn't do lunch on Saturday. You best check first!

Edited June 6, 2004 by Daddy-A (log)

[stovetop]

I would go to Granville island market Friday and from there walk along the beach to Jericho sailing school to the best deck in Vancouver, have a basic lunch and beer and if walking is still in you, you now have access to about hundred different choices of trails, if not cruise up to west tenth and walk down to alma and Broadway catch the 99 bus, it will cruise along Broadway to whatever local you want, if it is the ferry, then grab the grey hound at the bus station which the 99 goes bye, or grab the sky train downtown, do a few things there then grab, the horseshoe bay bus at Georgia and Granville, it is three bucks.

Vancouver is more then just downtown, to me the best part is; the nature and the very relax area of west side Vancouver, Broadway- McDonald is now becoming food capital of van, next to commercial street, but less inner city.

steve

All the hot places like cru and such are on the Broadway corridor, lots of food is close bye, so is Granville island

stove

Vancouvers beauty is what makes it, if you go there and not experience this part then you are missing out why everyone moves to van in the first place, and this nature is what keeps them here.

Edited June 6, 2004 by stovetop (log)

[ExtraMSG]

I don't drink, so my times can be quicker than some. But it depends. Some places are more naturally slow than others. When I did a big food trip in SF, I couldn't get out of a place in less than 2.5 hours. (Which meant a lot of waiting.) But a lot of those were multi-course tasting menus.

Maybe I should just stick with ethnic foods and do upscale some other time. Plus, my wife may not be able to come with me, so I may be all by myself. (Which means, if anyone wants to join me, I may need eating companions, if she really isn't coming.)

How does Vancouver's Indian and Thai compare to other North American cities? Also, what about Korean, Indonesian, Malaysian, etc? I like Chinese okay, although truly Sichuan is the style of my choosing. I don't generally like Japanese, however. But then again, if Vancouver has the best -- whether it's dim sum or sushi -- I may try it just to know, just to understand.

Thanks for all the help so far.

PS I've actually spent time camping in lower BC, used to sail for 10 days at a time through the Georgia Straits with SALTS (the guys who built the wooden ship at Expo '86, if you saw that), so I am familiar with the area's beauty. But I've never really eaten in the area.

Edited June 6, 2004 by ExtraMSG (log)

[Daddy-A]

Amazing how a one day visit can be some complicated ... it must be all those great choices!!

Regarding C ... I'm sure you can do dinner in a reasonable 1 - 1.5 hours as long as you let them know (we Canucks are pretty accomodating) and don't attempt the tasting menu!

As far as good ethnic ... jeez, where to begin? There are a few "standards" that are along your route back to the ferry. Click the names for their web pages:

Tojo's for sushi [i know you're not big on sushi, but Tojo is known world-wide]

Vij's for Indian fusion *My Fave*

The Banana Leaf for Malaysian

Sala Thai [3364 Cambie Street, Vancouver] for Thai

I'm sure other's will add their faves here.

Don't get me wrong, the Chinese in Richmond is excellent ... I just don't think it's the best use of your time considering your visit to Granville Island, and I definitely wouldn't skip Granville Island.

DA

[ExtraMSG]

Ghee braised short ribs! Sounds like some tasty stuff. What about more downscale places, too. I like fusion and upscale, but with some of these, I'm inexperienced enough I'd love to hear about some regional/authentic places, too, especially for possible lunches on Saturday and Sunday.

I know I'm really pressing you guys. I hope that's okay.

[HKDave]

I know I'm really pressing you guys. I hope that's okay.

Of course it's OK. I'm flying into Portland in July for 3 days and will be pumping you for the good stuff in return (got any real BBQ there?)...

Downscale/ethnic/lunch ideas: Vancouver has several good Vietnamese pho restaurants, and they're all pretty cheap. My old fave is Pho Hoang 3388 Main St Vancouver, tel (604) 874-0832. Also has a downtown location.

Another reliable inexpensive Cambodian/Vietnamese option would be Phnom Penh 244 E. Georgia in Chinatown, tel (604) 682-5777.

There are a lot of good Greek restaurants strung along Broadway. One to try would be Ouzeri, 3189 W.Broadway tel (604) 739 9378.

For reliable downscale Chinese, there's Hon's Won Ton House (original at 268 Keefer in Chinatown, plus locations in Richmond and downtown). Noodles and dumplings, just as good as in Hong Kong. Hmmm. If I was coming to Vancouuver from somewhere like Portland, I'd probably want to hit Chinatown. The 200 block of E. Pender is very interesting for Chinese cookery stuff. I'd definitely stop into the Dollar Meat Store at No. 266 for a 1/2 pound of the world's best warm char siu (Chinese BBQ pork) and snack on it as walked.

To answer your question about how Vancouver's various ethnic restaurants compare with other North American cities, I'd say (all IMHO, of course):

For Cantonese (incl. dim sum), Vancouver is the best place on Earth. Vancouver has a combination of excellent Cantonese chefs, excellent fresh ingedients, lots of customers that really know the cuisine, and (unlike Hong Kong) low rents.

Ditto for Japanese food, especially sushi. Vancouver simply rules for sushi. Daddy-A and I agree on Tojos. I've had several of my 'best meals of my life' at Tojos sushi bar. Definitely sit at the bar, don't go if you can't sit at the bar. Let Tojo choose. $$$ but worth it.

For Sichuan, Vancouver sucks. But so does most Sichuan in North America. Real Sichuan food is simply too explosive and far too oily for most westerners (and for most Cantonese - even in HK it's watered down to suit local tastes). But if you ever make it to Hong Kong, I'll set you up with the real deal. I love it.

For Indian and Malaysian, I would agree with Daddy-A's recs. Vancouver is good but not really world-class for either cuisine, but Vij's is a real standout.

For Korean, Vancouver is not in the same league as, say, LA or New York. Arirang at 2211 Cambie (just south of the Cambie bridge, tel (604 879-0990) is fairly authentic.

So now you probably have total info overload....

[plunk]

If you've never been to Granville Island and you're going to be driving, navigating and finding parking can be a bit confusing.

Here's a decent map on Granville Island's website.

http://www.granvilleisland.com/en/maps

Friday is definitely a much better choice than Saturday. During the summer weekends,

there's frequently a lineup of cars gets backed up all the way to W4th.

If you have some time, walk around the Granville & W Broadway area. Lots of great restaurants. Vij's, Rangoli (Vij's casual version), West, En, Cru.

Edited June 8, 2004 by plunk (log)

[shelora]

MSG

you simply have to stay and eat in Victoria. How long are you staying in Victoria? there is a ton of stuff to do, food-wise here. It's in NONE of the guide books.

Shelora

[Hest88]

Quick comments:

I live in the SF Bay Area and was really impressed with the Granville Island market. It's more upscale than Pike's Place, but has a much more local flavor than the SF Ferry Building.

The variety of food in Vancouver is really incredible. I'm not a big dim sum fan, but we are all blown away by the dim sum at Kirin. I *am* very familiar with high-end Cantonese and was still blown away by dinner at Kirin and Sun Sui Wah.

Oh, I don't remember where Sun Sui Wah is---we were ferried around by relatives---but I do remember that the Cambie St. Kirin (there are two, right?) seemed only halfway between downtown Van and the true suburb of Richmond. In that case, it wouldn't be too out of the way.

With only one lunch and one dinner in Van, I wouldn't mind having early dim sum at Kirin, hopping over to Granville for the afternoon, munching here and there, and then having a later dinner back at Kirin.

[ExtraMSG]

I won't be in Victoria long and I'll be at an all-day meeting one day, so I won't have as much time to explore as I'd like to.