Stock Question

[slkinsey]

I don't think you'd want to use the smoked pork bones unless you wanted a smokey-flavored stock. There's no reason not to make a pork stock, though, or to throw some pork bones into your beef stock. I'm not sure I'd put them into white chicken stock, however, because it might intrude upon the chicken flavor. I also like to start with raw bones rather than reusing cooked ones, although I suppose it makes less difference if the cooked bones are tossed in there as a supplement.

I almost always chuck a couple of pig's feet into my beef stocks.

[jackal10]

Grinding up the meat and the veg will certainly make more area available.

I'm less certain about grinding up the bones, as this will tend to release more calcium to give a distinct "bone taint". Also very small particle of bone are hard to filter out, and give an unpleasant texture.

Edited June 2, 2004 by jackal10 (log)

[slkinsey]

Could definitely happen. Will be interesting to give it a try and see. Again, many people would tell you that cooking a chicken stock with the bones for 12 hours will give you a "bone taint" as well, but my experience is that it isn't true.

As for little pieces of bone... I'm not talking about grinding these things down into sand. I'd use the coarse plate on the grinder. Regardless, since I clarify my stocks with egg whites, I'm not concerned about sediment, etc.

[mrbigjas]

Only one way to find out. There are a lot of things people say about making stocks (e.g., if you cook your chicken stock for 12 hours it will be bitter and cloudy) that turns out to be entirely untrue. So who knows? It'll be an experiment.

It would be really pretty damn cool if you could get a deeply flavored stock in like an hour from this method, although with all the developments in cooking in the last 500 years, I'm surprised no one has tried it--or to take it a step further, if it works and is significantly quicker, that it's not common practice in the industry.

Or maybe it is! who knows? Keep us posted; I'm interested.

Edited June 2, 2004 by mrbigjas (log)

[Dave the Cook]

I don't think you'd want to use the smoked pork bones unless you wanted a smokey-flavored stock.  There's no reason not to make a pork stock, though, or to throw some pork bones into your beef stock.  I'm not sure I'd put them into white chicken stock, however, because it might intrude upon the chicken flavor.  I also like to start with raw bones rather than reusing cooked ones, although I suppose it makes less difference if the cooked bones are tossed in there as a supplement.

I almost always chuck a couple of pig's feet into my beef stocks.

Pork stock is awesome stuff. It's great not just for sauces, but for soups, simmering beans, and making certain types of etouffees and gumbos as well.

Chicken in the form of stock is far more flavorful than beef, and I think it could withstand the addition of a few bones of other types without deleterious effect, but I'm not sure you'd gain anything, either.

I've made stock from smoked bones. For that matter, smoked hocks are part of my standard red beans and rice recipe. However, it's not amenable to reduction greater than about 50%. After that, the smoke flavor takes over. But I'm pretty sure this is more or less how Liquid Smoke is made, and perhaps it would be useful as a seasoning agent.

Say yes to trotters.

[Steve Martin]

It would be really pretty damn cool if you could get a deeply flavored stock in like an hour from this method, although with all the developments in cooking in the last 500 years, I'm surprised no one has tried it--or to take it a step further, if it works and is significantly quicker, that it's not common practice in the industry.

Or maybe it is! who knows? Keep us posted; I'm interested.

Well, Heston has been blitzing quail for his famous consomme.

[chefdg]

I also have an interesting stock-making hypothesis I am going to test the next time I make stock (soon, because I am running out).

I am going to run all the meat, bones and vegetables through my industrial-strength meat grinder.  My thought is that it will lead to faster and more complete extraction of both flavors and gelatin.  My general stock-making process, FWIW, is to leave it on the stove overnight substantially below the simmer (~180F/82C).

How big are the bones that you use for the stock? I have seen some veal bones that would be like a wrench if I tried to put them in a grinder.

I am curious how this method worked out for you. Please respond

[Artichoke]

One of my favorite things about making beef stock is making a meal of the bones after the stock is finished. I roast a mixture of marrow bones and joints that tend to have a good amount of meat and cartilage attached. After I roast the bones I remove the marrow before putting those bones into my stock pot along with the rest. I just eat the marrow straight with the slightest sprinkle of salt or spread it on toast. There are few things better then warm marrow.

When my stock is finished I love gnawing the incredibly tender cartilage and meat that clings to the bone. In addition it is heavenly to suck out the stock that is deep within from the porous ends of the bone.

Needless to say, this is a solitary activity. I can only imagine the look of horror that would come across my girlfriend's face if she saw me sucking and gnawing a plate of beef bones.

[slkinsey]

How big are the bones that you use for the stock? I have seen some veal bones that would be like a wrench if I tried to put them in a grinder.

I usually get the butcher to run 'em through the band saw a time or two if they're big bones. I also have a very powerful home grinder.

[scottie]

I am a lazy stock-maker. I just throw whatever I have into the pot, usually leek trimmings and bones from the weeks' dinners, and let it simmer until I'm ready to fool with it. Some times it turns out better than other times. I guess I'll skim a bit if necessary.

But I've noticed that cracking the bones some definitely adds to the flavor and body of the finished stock.

Does anyone else do this?

We just crack the bigger bones with a nutcracker, so as to get maximum marrow exposure. This works really well with turkey.

No, I don't clarify. I pick through the finished stock like my mama does. If you get a little piece of bone or gristle later on, well, you just won the prize.

[chefdg]

very powerful home grinder.

Wow that looks like a nice piece of machinery!!! And you sound like you are a very proud owner.

Grinding chicken and fowl bones is an elementary gardemanger practice, the bones actually help to clarify a stock (as for making consomme). I want to see a machine that can handle veal knuckles!!!!

[akwa]

You can make a vegetable demiglace in two ways that I know of:

First, a la gagnaire, herve this:

Reduce vegetable juice with fat and gelatin.

Second, caramelize vegetables in sugar and fat, cover with water and extract flavor. It is useful to use vegetables heavy in natural gelatin, for example, leeks.

Enjoy.