[PDX] Indian Food

[ExtraMSG]

I couldn't find any Indian food threads for Portland, so I hope this isn't redundant....

Several of us Chowhounders and eGulleters unified on PortlandFood.org have been meeting for lunch as a curry club the last few weeks. So far we've hit India House, Swagat NW, and, today, Curry Leaf.

India House and Swagat are both mediocre. I like a couple items on the buffet at Swagat and the intensity and flavors of the sauces, although they sometimes have items that are actually bad. India House may be more even overall, but I find it uniformly mediocre and often bland and unbalanced. (We started with these primarily to get the long-time Portland standards out of the way and thus establish a litmus test.)

Curry Leaf, however, was very good. Everything on the buffet was good to very good. The flavors were fresh and intense but balanced.

I really liked the malabar chilli chicken and the cabbage-mustard seed dishes. The former was savory, only moderately spicy, with tender chicken and nice cinnamon and other spice fragrances. The latter was buttery and tangy.

But the other dishes -- that soup, that tomatoey lentil curry, the tandoori chicken -- were all good, too, just not my preference in comparison to the others.

They alternate their Sunday buffet between Southern and Northern Indian food (all veggie on Southern Sundays).

Here's their website: http://www.curryleafpdx.com/home/index.asp

btw, a good list of Indian restaurants in Portland can be found here (thanks to Leopoldo at http://www.geekroar.com for the list):

http://www.indogram.com/index.php?centerpi...ortland%2C%20OR

[whippy]

yeah, good topic here. i think i've written a bit about this somewhere, but the state of indian restaurant cooking in pdx is depressing. i often find myself working up the nerve to "try again" to find somewhere decent, and just becoming sad in the middle of my meal that the food is so dismal--and--so accepted by portland's customers. i can only hope that the tech economy on the westside continues to attract a larger population of indians, wondering if such a groundswell would underpin more quality indian cooking. i'm not sure the greater portland area has any idea how exciting, varied and delicious indian cuisine can be when well executed. especially if they've only eaten at our current offerings.

i agree with everything you've said, xmsg, but would like to suggest that while curry leaf is the best i've eaten here, it's still imho just a "good" place, and far from excellent or great. i was glad to find a drumstick (a pod veggie) in the sambhar, enjoy most of the varied flavors, wish the layered salad didn't host a soggy mass of sev (crisp noodles), and find the gulab jamun (a dense dessert) much too pungent with spice for my own taste. but still, the only place in portland i find myself drawn to.

the chaat house cart downtown on 13th has some appeal, too. it's cheap and the portions are large, but that doesn't totally do it for me. i would argue that the chaat half of the menu is where they excel, with a fine chana bhatura, and tasty aloo tikkis and golgappas. not incredible chaats, but good ones. i don't really care for the food i've had from the entree portion of the menu--but i wonder if that's just because they're cooking a regional style i don't really like?

don't you live in the couv, xmsg? i was pleasantly surprised to find that namaste on the corner of fourth at 117th had some good offerings! after curry leaf, it's where i would go back to. they did a nice punjabi dumpling curry. there's also a good grocer down the street, and when i was there the owner indicated plans to start serving counter snacks. i'm all about that.

to save the group a little trouble, please avoid india grill on burnside altogether. really crappy meats, tinned tomato flavors, dense and chewy chapatis. i personally think bombay cricket club on hawthorne is ridiculous, to me at least. packed with customers i don't know why. i remember being repeatedly served a naan after repeatedly trying to get a parantha. nobody could tell me why. they serve a lot of second rate "mango juice" margaritas, maybe everybody is so drunk they can't taste their food. i'm sure that sounds rude, sorry in advance.

most of my opinions are based on about a year of travel in india, which isn't a lot know! i'd love to hear more opinions especially from people who grew up or lived in india or traveled there a lot!!!

in addition, i'm excited about the growth in indian grocery stores in pdx lately. a sign of good things to come, i hope. used to be, there was sriders and that was it. now, next to mama uwajamiya we've got a spot just a few blocks away, and there's india 4 u on hawthorne (who may also start preparing snacks) and that place up in the couv. gone are the days when we had to substitute split yellow peas for most dals, bay leaves for curry leaves, maple syrup for jaggery, etc. etc.

[ExtraMSG]

Yeah, I live in Vancouver. I've been to Namaste a few times. I think it's decent. I'd agree that it's better than Swagat or India House. I've only been to Curry Leaf once, but I would say that the consistency on the buffet was much better than Namaste's, unless they've improved. I haven't been there in probably 8 months. I do have a coupon, though (they often have coupons), so I should give it another try. I have to go by myself, though, because my wife doesn't really eat Indian.

There actually used to be an Indian place just down the road from me near the Cascade Park area, next to two other quality ethnic restaurants, Patrick's Hawaiian Cafe and Lindo Mexico. I can't recall the name right now. But they went out of business. Their buffet crowd was okay, but the dinner crowd was non-existent. Sad, too, because the buffet was mediocre but the dinners were very good. Everything was pretty fresh. I liked them better than Namaste.

I had heard bad things about India Grill and never wanted to try it. A friend said that they weren't very clean, too.

I consider Bombay Cricket Club in about the same league as Swagat and India House, maybe a little better depending on what you get. But I think it's very uneven. I've gone in there with people and had dishes that were very good and some that were executed poorly, like too much salt. Plus, they're always too packed.

I've only given the Chaat House one try and I'm not sure I knew what to order. The thing I got was pretty good, but I didn't have a basis for comparison. They're always packed, though, no matter what time I drive by there. If they're open, they're busy, and always with Indian clients. I'd like to go there with people who know what they're doing.

Have you tried Plainfield's Mayur? It's a very different experience because it's Indian fine dining. What I've had there was very good, but much of it is very expensive. The vegetarian stuff isn't too bad, though. The chutney platter they bring out is very nice. It's been a while and I need to go back. I went there several times kind of close together when I was making the big bucks during the tech boom. But I got tired of it because the menu was so static and the items on it pretty expensive. I need variety. The place is gorgeous and has a very well-respected wine list, from what I understand. (Kosher, too.)

Have you tried the Swagat outlets in Orenco Station and Beaverton? I've heard from a couple people that they're better than the NW location.

Also, I've heard some votes for Abhiruchi as the best in town. I haven't been there.

There's Saffron, too, which is pretty new. I haven't been there either, but I've had it recommended by a couple people.

btw, what are your references for good Indian? I'm finding that people are coming from a lot of different perspectives on Indian. I've eaten Indian in Chicago and Berkeley -- at least as far as Indian that people say is good. Other than those places the most Indian food I've had has been stuff I've made or stuff in Portland restaurants. I have little or no feel for regionality.

There's a person in our curry club who has travelled extensively in India that has made some comments I've found interesting. eg, she liked India House because it reminded her of commoner foods she ate in India. She didn't eat at fancy restaurants. She ate what the people ate and the people were poor. So they couldn't always put as much intensity into the dish that I expect from an Indian place, eg. I don't know if that's to say that the food is better, though, because I wouldn't want someone coming away from the US thinking good American food comes from Denny's or Applebee's.

I have a friend from Dallas (where there are large Indian populations) who was very underwhelmed by the Indian food we ate together in Berkeley (and this was at places recommended from sources like Chowhound). There were some things I wasn't too thrilled with, but some things I thought were pretty good, he didn't really like. But then again, he is someone for whose favorite dish is probably Chicken Tikka Masala. which, of course, is not an "authentic" Indian dish, but an anglo-Indian dish invented in Britain. But he had very concrete points about the same dishes in Dallas that he thought were meaingfully better.

It's a broad cuisine and there's a lot of play in what people like about it and what forms their opinions. So I'm always interested in hearing the backstory.

[bbqer]

It's a broad cuisine and there's a lot of play in what people like about it and what forms their opinions. So I'm always interested in hearing the backstory.

My wife and I both enjoy Indian food very much but aren't all that familiar with its preparation, nor the regional variances. As we dined at Sahib in Edmonds, before the Redmond restaurant was built, the owner, an Indian gentleman born and raised in Alabama (!) talked with us about his theories on cooking Indian food. He maintained that it didn't have to be very spicy (hot) in order to be flavorful and his food was evidence of that. I haven't found all that many Indian restaurants in the Seattle area I've considered exceptional. I was more enamored of the Indian restaurants in Dallas, TX, when I lived there. Seemed like the food was spicier and/or more interesting. BTW, wish we had a Curry Club here in SEA. You Portland folks seem to have some good times.

[ExtraMSG]

I would think you'd have some good Indian food up there with the huge tech industry. One of the biggest issues down here is that every place merely claims "Authentic North and South Indian". Which is fine and good, but usually when a place specializes, especially on a region they're familiar with, they do better stuff. Do you guys have regional Indian restauants up there? I don't know any places down here that specialize, except maybe the Chaat House in chaat.

[bbqer]

I would think you'd have some good Indian food up there with the huge tech industry. One of the biggest issues down here is that every place merely claims "Authentic North and South Indian". Which is fine and good, but usually when a place specializes, especially on a region they're familiar with, they do better stuff. Do you guys have regional Indian restauants up there? I don't know any places down here that specialize, except maybe the Chaat House in chaat.

I'm not aware of any specifically regional Indian restaurants in the Seattle area. Anyone?

[whippy]

I've only given the Chaat House one try and I'm not sure I knew what to order. The thing I got was pretty good, but I didn't have a basis for comparison. They're always packed, though, no matter what time I drive by there. If they're open, they're busy, and always with Indian clients. I'd like to go there with people who know what they're doing.

i don't think there's too much to worry about. the only snack they serve that requires any understanding is the pani puri, which they've always helpfully explained to me. you just poke a hole in the thin side of the crisp, fill with the potatoe mix and fill with the liquid. eat in a single bite. interestingly, i've never seen any indian clients there, but i tend to call ahead so i can grab my food and run.

Have you tried Plainfield's Mayur?

i ate there only once, and while a friend just gave me a negative report, i feel i should go back. it's been so long that i don't remember what i ate, just that none of it seemed like anything to justify the prices. (seventeen bucks for okra curry? neither their food nor service seemed to justify that for me. even it was loaded with expensive ghee or saffron, the price still wouldn't add up for me.) the atmosphere seemed sort of clunky/stodgy. i'm not enough of a wine buff to comment on their list.

Have you tried the Swagat outlets in Orenco Station and Beaverton?

i used to eat at the beaverton joint a lot when it first opened. it was terrific, their sambhar was bursting with flavor, the dosai were fragrant and a little sour, idlis were yummy, reminded me of good restaurant food in india (and just like here, there's plenty of bad). didn't bother too much with their n. indian offerings, since the s. indian was so tasty. then, the chutneys started getting blander and the masala dosas became tepid. last time i had lunch at the bvtn location (a couple years ago) i was thinking, 'what happened?' haven't made it to orenco yet. abhiruchi and saffron are both on my list (saffron's only open a total of 16 hours a week, i believe. wonder how that works.)

btw, what are your references for good Indian?

most of my opinions are based on about a year of travel in india, which isn't a lot i know! i'd love to hear more opinions especially from people who grew up or lived in india or traveled there a lot!!!

really, my references? Totally Suspect. i want the things from an indian restaurant in portland that i want from any restaurant in portland, comfort, service, flavor, etc. etc. i want to taste fresh vegetables, see fresh herbs, smell great aromas, enjoy tender roasted or braised meats, get some rice that isn't a sticky lump. i dunno, i guess i think good indian food in portland works something like this for me: does it remind me of something i might have eaten in india, and more importantly, is it delicious? that's all i'm after. pretty subjective. if you're interested in more informed/complex perspectives than mine, i strongly suggest heading over to the india forum (there's no portland stuff, sadly.) maybe next time i'm at an indian joint here, i'll scribble down www.egullet.com and leave it with a big tip. see if we can't get more discussion.

[ExtraMSG]

Hunter on Chowhound recently posted that the Swagath, the Orenco Station Swagat replacement for Shalimar is much better than the others. Maybe the owners or their best cook moves to the newest location and whichever one they're focusing on has good food.

[trillium]

btw, what are your references for good Indian?  I'm finding that people are coming from a lot of different perspectives on Indian.  I've eaten Indian in Chicago and Berkeley -- at least as far as Indian that people say is good.  Other than those places the most Indian food I've had has been stuff I've made or stuff in Portland restaurants.  I have little or no feel for regionality.

There's a person in our curry club who has travelled extensively in India that has made some comments I've found interesting.  eg, she liked India House because it reminded her of commoner foods she ate in India.  She didn't eat at fancy restaurants.  She ate what the people ate and the people were poor.  So they couldn't always put as much intensity into the dish that I expect from an Indian place, eg.  I don't know if that's to say that the food is better, though, because I wouldn't want someone coming away from the US thinking good American food comes from Denny's or Applebee's.

I'm guessing this is same person that said on chowhound that Indian food is never hot. That drove me nuts because they've obviously never eaten in a Malayali house! Indian food is hugely diverse, I would hold much more diverse then North America. A nihiri from boarder towns vs. a seafood sambhar from the southern coast vs. fish or shrimp steamed in a mustard paste? I don't think you can compare these things. That's one of the things I love about the cuisine.

But I should say not all "Indian" food is heavily spiced or hot. Some can approach the simplicity and purity of flavor you see in a classical Japanese prep. The home cooking I've had the privilage of eating has had a much cleaner flavor then most of the food you encounter in restaurants, even food that is what you might call heavily spiced. I think part of this is that you don't chuck every spice you own like they do in american-indian places.

regards,

trillium

[ExtraMSG]

It was Jamesongrrl. I don't know if she's commented on the fiery nature of Indian foods or not on Chowhound.

Certainly there are regions where Indian food is damned fiery. I've known Indians who have asbestos mouths because of it. Trillium, did you ever eat at Sizzle India in Chicago? They had a chilli chicken so fiery that I think I went through two pitchers of water myself. A friend from Texas who had gotten the rec for the place from an Indian friend marrying an Indian woman from Chicago (Sizzle India specialized in the same region the guy was from), looked like he had run a marathon there was so much sweat dripping from his forehead. Interestingly, they had a wonderfully delicate and balanced cabbage-mustard seed dish that was my absolute favorite on the buffet. Best buffet Indian I've ever had. (Best Indian food I've ever had might actually be from a Sri Lankan restaurant in Puerto Vallarta where nearly everything was made to order. Mexican and Indian share so many styles and spices.)

[trillium]

I did eat there, and more then once. It was Andhran food. Super yum...some of the hottest. Their cooked to order stuff was even better then the buffet.

I would love for a pdx place to be just half as good as Sizzle....I'd even settle for a Hot Wok (Chinese by way of Kolkata)...aren't they a franchise?

I don't know if Dawat Palace is on your list or not, it's in Beaverton I think. I went there and had ok food. It's Panjabi. It's better then India House and Swagat but still, that's not saying much. I bought some really miserable son papli from the sweets counter.

If you run accross any place that has pan in your travels, please let me know.

regards,

trillium

[ExtraMSG]

I'll keep an eye out.

That Indian fella had Sizzle India cater his wedding. I guess it was huge and they were arguing over whether to have 1000 or 1500 guests. Apparently they had planned on having elephants, but did finally get rid of that hefty budget item.

I had a lot of fun in that area of Chicago touring all the groceries, getting some sort of weird smoked asofetida that stunk up my hands something awful and looking at the jewelry places with a friend's wife. Looking for good Indian eats? Follow the gold. Same in Berkeley. I don't think we have any big Indian jewelry stores here, do we?

I imagine we'll do Chaat and Abhurachi next, maybe Swagath, although the westside is a pain for most of us. We're also doing Thai, though, and could do the Tibetan place as well.

I really should start talking to the owners of some of these places. It's nice because Indians generally speak much better English than most ethnic restaurant owners. I bet if I did I could get a PortlandFood.org dinner where they made whatever regional food they make for themselves rather than whatever they make in order to be all things to all people.

[whippy]

If you run accross any place that has pan in your travels, please let me know.

i once got a paan at an indian festival association party up at the zoo. it wasn't like fresh, juicy paan you get in india, but it was still nice. i don't know much at all about the art of paan making (and my only experience with tobacco paan was really something best not spoken of), but at least some ingredients are available at sriders, and certainly online. patelbrothersusa, mahabazaar, namaste might be places to start looking? i have the feeling that the fresh leaf is going to be the hardest to come by. have you ever rolled your own? i've never even looked for "recipes." but, that does suddenly seem tempting.....

I really should start talking to the owners of some of these places.

go, xmsg! you seem well positioned with portlandfoodorg to bring something together. over on the india forum, there's a lot of dynamic discussion about bringing indian cuisine/restaurants up to the level of, say, chinese or mexican in america in terms of popularity. i think that getting more dialogue between eager customers, such as ourselves, and portland's indian restaurateurs is a step in the right direction. (monica, on the washington d.c. forum, has put together some events that look really great.) we've got high profile mexican, se asian, peruvian, chinese etc. etc in portland. it's time for high profile indian, a joint like amma or indique. i'll settle for just about anything, really.

i'm disheartened that only 4 of us seem to be participating in this discussion! c'mon, let's hear from more people, especially if you grew up, lived or travelled in india.

yours,

whippy

[ExtraMSG]

Four is high-traffic for us Portlanders.

Well, Portland does have Plainfield's Mayur. They've garnered some national recognition on their wine list, their vegetarian offerings, and that sort of thing. It's certainly an atypical place. I'd love to see a Bayless of Indian food come along, though, and give Indian more credibility.

There isn't even much recognition of Mexican regional differences, though. I see stuff called "Mexico City Mexican" in Texas reviews that has nothing to do with Mexico City's Mexican food and I see stuff called Oaxacan that isn't Oaxacan at all. eg, a recent review of Nuestra Cocina called it Oaxacan. There's nothing distinctly Oaxacan on the menu that I've seen. Taqueria Nueve at least has a mole or two. Same with La Calaca. But Nuestra Cocina is nearly all Yucatecan and coastal Mexican. I saw the same thing in California where a place got referred to as Oaxacan and there wasn't anything Oaxacan on the menu. It actually seemed like Jaliscan home cooking to me, but I believe they were from a border town on the Michoacan side. Since they named their restaurant after the town, you'd think the reviewer would have looked it up. Oh, well. People know Oaxaca to some degree. It's good marketing. It's partially famous for its food from people like Kennedy, Trilling, Bayless, etc.

The two cuisines I can think of that do pretty well at being distinguished on the basis of regionality are Italian and Chinese. They largely get lumped together, but you're much more likely to have a restaurant referred to as Cantonese, Sichuan, Hong Kong, or Hunan style Chinese than you are any region of Thailand, India, Mexico, France, Germany, Spain, Japan, or whatever. Same with Italy. You actually hear things like Roman, Tuscan, Sicilian, etc. I wish every cuisine was treated at least as carefully.

I don't think Portland really has anything world class right now, though. Cafe Azul was world class. They were possibly the best Mexican restaurant in the country. Others had a good claim. But, certainly it was conceivable. It was nice when we had Cafe Azul, Taqueria Nueve, La Calaca Comelona, Salvador's, and de Leon. With Nuestra Cocina added in that was a pretty damned good set of Mexican. Add in Esparza's, some mission burrito places, and a typical Mexican-American place like Lindo Mexico or even Chevy's, a respectable chain on a par with many of the respectable chains of Texas like On the Border, and you've got a good claim on being a very respectable Mexican food city.

We don't have any breadth like that in anything else, really. Well, brew pubs.

[whippy]

Well, Portland does have Plainfield's Mayur. They've garnered some national recognition on their wine list, their vegetarian offerings, and that sort of thing.

i think the national recognition PM has gotten may really only be deserved for their wine list, which is long and very expensive, at least by my humble standards. but i think you're right, it's sort of teetering around the edge of what i was trying to get at by "high profile."

so i went back--in fact just got back from--a meal there to think a little more about the place.

the decor is nice enough, with really nifty silverware and platters to showcase the table and complement the linens. crystal lamps shimmer on the walls and from the ceiling. these nice touches fight with the late seventies era track lighting, the unflattering paint, carpet and stemware. the walls are stuffed with traditional statuary. seems sort of dated to me, statuary.

the server was graceful under tremendous pressure. unfortunately, there was tremendous pressure. we were seriously debating if a couple of employees had failed to show up for shifts to account for the total lack of staff. we sat downstairs, and counted about 9 tables being waited on by a single individual with no backup whatsoever--seating, watering, serving, taking orders, bussing, presenting wine, running checks, pouring wine. ask your server friends about their work-related dreams; this was one of them. i'm completely forgiving of this in a cheap joint, and can certainly forgive this at a midlevel joint having an off day. but PM serves $27 entrees and sports thousand dollar bottles of wine. i believe they should be able to shell out minimum wage for a wee bit of extra help.

we shelled out sixty five bucks for a 1998 alsatian riesling. (which is a splurge for us.) think this was probably our favorite part of the meal. it was cool to see the wines being stored at fifty eight degrees in the cellar (and fun to sit next to the cellar itself) and then have it chilled a bit before service. but we're not super winey, so i don't know.

started off with dahi wadas and bhel salad. the wadas (fried lentil dumplings) were simple and nice, served in a straightforward yogurt sauce. good, but no wow. i thought the bhel salad was going to be a bhel puri, but in fact it really was a "bhel salad." the crisp rice puffs were tossed with chopped raw spinach, i guess in an attempt to westernize it. didn't work for me at all, didn't seem like something i'd ever eat in india, but much more importantly, it was over dressed with a dry mint dressing (didn't seem like what i think of as a chutney) which gave the whole thing a strong smell of an old cupboard. i've worked a bit with dried mint, and when it's off balance as it was here, it gives a pronounced musty, fusty smell. yuk.

lobster and lamb came next. there was a great quantity of lobster in a sauce of differently cooked onions and tomatoes. the sauce was bland, maybe so as not to smother the lobster's flavor. the lamb was served with a dainty coin of wild mushrooms on a minted saag. the lamb itself was bland, the sauce was nice but nothing special, and i have different ideas about what a wild mushroom is (especially right now, very high quality morels are probably at the lowest prices of the year).

the rice served on the side was excellent, fluffy, nicely seasoned. i wish i could get rice like that in more places. also, the coconut chutney was very good. they were making it with fresh coconut so the flavor was really earthy and fresh. i've never eaten naans like these before, i liked that they were finished with a brushing of ghee, but otherwise they reminded me more of pita bread. the edges of the bread were brittle and dry.

wanted to try their falooda, a mixture of ice cream and noodles (which i ate once in india and basically didn't like there) but our server was hopelessly trapped trying to wait on too many tables.

if i had gotten this food from a six dollar buffet (assuming ingredients like lamb rack and lobster could be served at a six dollar buffet) i wouldn't have been impressed. with the exception of the rice.

in some ways, i think PM has a touch of "old restaurant disease." in the course of its history, ingredients have reached american shores not available at its inception, service has diversified in many restaurants, standards for decor have changed, menus have become more focused etc etc. PM seems to be doing the same thing it has always done. the place was packed. so it probably doesn't have anything to worry about.

as we were leaving, i asked my dinner companion why they thought the place was so busy when we had generally disliked everything. her response was something like this: sometimes the package sells the food.

i really really want indian restaurants in pdx to start operating at a higher level than this.

anyway, i'll be off to abhiruchi dawat et al soon.

yours,

whippy

[ExtraMSG]

It's been a while since I've been there. I should probably go back. They really have a wide range of prices. They do have $25+ entrees, but it's not like they only have lamb and lobster and duck. They do also have their vegetarian stuff. Although, even there, the prices are about twice what you'd probably pay at Curry Leaf.

Don't they have a tandoori oven? I seem to remember that you could actually see it or something. Maybe the bread was actually cooked in it giving the bread more texture (maybe overcooked; I don't know authentic naan texture). I don't remember the bread at all there.

Thanks for the report.

[Sleepy_Dragon]

i can only hope that the tech economy on the westside continues to attract a larger population of indians, wondering if such a groundswell would underpin more quality indian cooking. i'm not sure the greater portland area has any idea how exciting, varied and delicious indian cuisine can be when well executed. especially if they've only eaten at our current offerings.

Only had Indian food once in Portland around 5 years ago, and don't especially remember it. But as far as the tech economy goes, kind of hard to say though it's an interesting thing to consider for me. My apologies in advance if it's too off-topic given that most of my post is going to be about Seattle, so feel free to delete or whatever.

So in Seattle, or rather, on the east side just outside of Seattle in Bellevue and Redmond where Microsoft is located, in the last few years there have been some really good south Indian places which the Indian tech workers patronize. Whereas in Seattle, I think the Indian restaurants have been around longer, but haven't done much beyond the usual mughal restaurant thing. There was one attempt at bonafide Southern Indian food in the Queen Anne neighborhood but they couldn't attract enough customers to stay open, despite winning press awards.

But then, we have fantastic Ethiopian and Eritrean food here, as well as Vietnamese. Less so for Chinese places but there are a few. Mostly run by people who near as I can tell, aren't big time chefs or anything like that, and are mostly running holes in the wall which cater to local immigrant populations, with zero fanfare. Especially the African places, where on a Friday or Saturday night there's a bank of empty taxi cabs just outside some of them.

So tech wealth would bring money, and that one Indian place I mentioned was certainly located in a neighborhood with lots of tech money (people -mobbed- the more expensive pan-fusion places around it), but is money and a specifically Indian techie population enough I wonder. My gut feeling is no unless that population reached a pretty extreme critical mass, and it seems somewhere along the line, the immigration regulations would have to change in order to change this. Certainly for Seattle, it seems like Bellevue and Redmond have attracted most of the great cooks, what few of them there are.

The tech workers themselves aren't going to be the ones slaving away in a restaurant, and there seem to be very few if any of the non-tech or professional locals around. And the few cooks who could get into the country probably aren't going to be able to afford to live in, let alone open up a place in an area with a high concentration of dot.commers.

And I'd imagine it's only gotten much much worse since 9-11. I mean christ, the school I went to for evening Japanese classes was shut down for a time because of suspicion of harboring terrorist activity via their ESL classes, and they've also been hurting financially because so much of their business is teaching English to Japanese exchange students, who've had tons of trouble getting in, or just don't bother anymore because of what they have to be subjected to for background checks.

Seems like a lot of other stuff needs to change if we're going to get uniformly good Indian food in the PNW. Either that, or all that's left is some type of gussied up fusiony thing which would attract non-Indian people with money. Not sure I like the sound of that, but oh well.

Pat

[whippy]

thanks for your thoughts, sleepy d. your post is really appreciated down here. i think you're absolutely right with the idea that it's going to take a lot more than an influx of tech workers to get uniformly good indian restaurants in PNW.

i guess that's just sort of a hopeful thought, that more indians in portland means more demanding customers at indian restaurants. as tech workers come i think some of their family may come as well, and the population slowly grows. i vaguely remember a time in pdx when there were only maybe two indian joints in the whole city. i think we may be up to somewhere around 20, so progess is being made, if over time. i'm not enough of a sociologist, though, to do anymore than speculate wildly and my thinking may be totally fallacious.

what was the name of the defunct queen anne failure? i'd be interested to look for press on the place. sad.

Either that, or all that's left is some type of gussied up fusiony thing which would attract non-Indian people with money. Not sure I like the sound of that, but oh well

that sort of thing makes me shiver, too. i hope there's more middle ground to be explored.

Plainfields Mayur prices:

starters

papadums and paranthas start at 2.95 and meat samosas top out at 6.75

entrees

moong dal dumplings in gravy start at 14.95 and top out at 27.95 for the lamb

i'm not sure how to characterize the prices really and truly, cuz different people do eat differently for sure. for my own pocketbook this is upper mid-level to expensive dining. though it definitely is possible that two people could probably eat frugally (2 cheaper entrees, one expensive starter, a couple of non-alcoholic drinks and tip) for around $48, not including dessert.

Don't they have a tandoori oven? I seem to remember that you could actually see it or something. Maybe the bread was actually cooked in it giving the bread more texture (maybe overcooked; I don't know authentic naan texture). I don't remember the bread at all there.

i think they have a tandoor upstairs behind glass. if you go back, maybe you could ask to sit upstairs and report back? naan is traditionally cooked in tandoors. they serve the naan with all the entrees. i would want to see fresh dough being pressed to the inside of the oven over the course of the evening, as meals are served. to me at least, good naan is tender with a thin crispy, but not dried out, crust. however, their version may just be a traditional variation on naan of which i'm unaware.

yours,

whippy

[Sleepy_Dragon]

i guess that's just sort of a hopeful thought, that more indians in portland means more demanding customers at indian restaurants.  as tech workers come i think some of their family may come as well, and the population slowly grows.

Ah, that's true, I forgot about the family ties thing. Not only in terms of increasing the Indian population base, but also the possibility that auntie or dad or whoever worked as a cook before (or just gets nostalgic about what they used to eat all the time) and wants to try opening a restaurant here with the help of their techie's financial backing, plus the pleadings of all the other Indian techies.

Guess time will tell. One restaurant owner told me that 15 years ago, there were maybe 5 Indian restaurants in all of Seattle, and now there are 53 of them, as of two years ago. So perhaps the tastes of local folk will change too just by virtue of getting tired of the same menu.

i vaguely remember a time in pdx when there were only maybe two indian joints in the whole city.  i think we may be up to somewhere around 20, so progess is being made, if over time.  i'm not enough of a sociologist, though, to do anymore than speculate wildly and my thinking may be totally fallacious.

Neither am I, and it's all speculation on my part too based on trying to observe what's been sticking around, what hasn't, and what's changed.

One comment the Pakistani owner of a local spice shop mentioned is that as far as street snacks go, it's also a social thing that has to be duplicated, because people go to chat and hang out while eating them, sometimes popping them in one after the other as the wallah makes them. Which means some kind of lively street scene with lots of Indian folks around, plus a food code amenable for hot made from scratch street snacks, which Seattle has neither of, and I suspect is probably too *ahem* genteel for the sight of people thronging around munching on food while chatting away.

As for that place on Queen Anne, it was called Mayuri. I've bitched about this in another PNW thread, the gist being hating everybody on Queen Anne for the longest time for letting this closure happen. Maybe 2/3 of their menu was the standard mughal restaurant stuff, though it was well executed, and the other third was South Indian. The award I specifically recall was something about being ranked #1 for Best Korma, though there was another I forget, plus positive reviews.

They're still around in (surprise...) Bellevue, and this is their website:

http://www.mayuriseattle.com

Pat

[ftmsb]

Hi,

Always a fan of indian cooking, so I thought I'd throw my two cents into this forum. In one of the earlier posts there was a brief mention of Saffron, a fairly new place that has opened up on 18th. Anyone been? Its near where I live and we've been a couple of times. On the first trip the place was pretty crowded, the owner was out on the floor seating and taking care of folks, and the food was really good. I made some comment at the time that it was some of the best indian food I had had outside of home kitchens. The owner boasted that they had the most experienced indian chef in Portland. I have no idea who that would be, but I did like his food!

Soon thereafter we noticed that tables were often empty. They started changing the hours, subtracting lunch, subtracting Sunday, adding Sunday, subtracting Monday and Tuesday (I think that is where they stand now... open for dinner Wednesday through Sunday). The next time we went the food was really good again. Thereafter, it appears that the "most experienced chef in town" was possibly let go. The last two times we tried it, the owner was in the kitchen along with his (?) mother. The food was ok, but really not as good as it had been.

I certainly wish the owners the best of luck, particularly since I like having some indian food so close to home, but I miss the first chef! Just curious if anyone else has tried it or knows the saga?

Additionally, as a comment to indian food getting clumped together as opposed to recognized as separate regional cuisnes (ala Italian and Chinese food), I do miss the indian restaurants of New Jersey which did tend to specialize. There were a lot of south indian places (particularly common seemed to be the dosa hut... anyone seen dosas for sale in PDX?), but some got even more focused (Hyderabadai cuisine, for instance). Made for some fine eating.

Scott

[whippy]

a brief mention of Saffron

what were some of the dishes you liked? tried to go once, but they were closed. i've noticed that their newspaper ads for the last couple of weeks claim service from delivereddish (that home delivery service), but when you go to delivereddish, no saffron. so i suspect some management issues. too bad about the chef. the place is still young, though, so maybe. . .

dosas for sale

the closest dosa to you, i believe, is at swagath on nw 21st. decent dosa, lifeless sambhar. also on the menu at abhiruchi in beaverton and curry leaf in bethany court. definitely let us all know what you find!

[ftmsb]

RE: Saffron

what were some of the dishes you liked?

They had a really nice palak paneer and I liked the bhindi (?) masala (curried okra). Also tried a daal and mixed veggie curry. This was all on the first visit. Tried the lamb (I can't remember now, perhaps a vindaloo?) on the second visit. On later visits the different dishes started blending all together, both in taste and in memory.

the closest dosa to you...

Thanks for the info! After reading some of the earlier posts about Curry Leaf I'm pretty excited to try it. Their online menu sounds good...

[whippy]

i'd intended to be a good little reporter and try a couple of places i hadn't been to yet--and ended up back at curry leaf. made me happy. fresh naan, tasty chole (chickpeas), good coffee, fragrant sambhar. a carrot halwa that was very good and very sweet but, to me at least, a bit overspiced.

made it over to abhiruchi for the lunch buffet (7.95). the buffet provides ample choices: tandoori chicken, naan, papadam, rotis, butter chicken, two kinds of rice, several vegetables, dals, keema (minced lamb) curry, stir fried cabbage, upma (savory farina), idlis, saag, chutneys, fruit, dessert, salad......

there was an opo (akin to summer squash) curry which you don't see everywhere, it was simple and nice. thumbs up on the upma, too, which was clean and tasty. they also offered a "pickle chutney" which was excellent.

most everything else seemed mediocre--not bad--in one way or another. the butter chicken was blandish, the lentil fritter tough, the papadam bendable. i suspect the carrots in the dal came from cans, the gulab jamuns from mix. the greens with the thin dal struck me as sour and stinky. the remaining chutneys (coconut, green, tomato) were one-dimensional.

would have to put it in the medium-low quality category.

i don't think anybody's mentioned new delhi restaurant off of barbur. ate there about a month ago. don't have anything specific to report, just didn't seem memorable though.

hit up 3 grocery stores i hadn't been to yet: india gate (frozen fish flown in from india!!!!! basic staples); bazaar (gloomy but well stocked); and india direct (clean and well stocked); india direct hosts chatpata chaat in back, super excited about going there soon , will post details.

yours,

whippy

[deensiebat]

i just went to abhiruchi for the first time last night (after my gujarati friend said it was "almost as good as pittsburgh,' which is evidently high praise). i was surprised to read a mediocre review, bc i thought it was pretty great -- fresh-tasting produce, complex seasoning, tasty greens, etc. maybe things have improved since the last review? other than some lackluster chutneys with the papadam, i thought it was the best i'd had in this town (not saying much). i'd make the schlep out from portland again.