Copper River Salmon

[Schielke]

I am not sure if we ever really settled this, but the issue of parasites in an unfrozen salmon does come up. I do know that you can get copper river salmon sushi at Mashiko's in West Seattle. I don't know if it was previously frozen or not. I believe that it might be illegal to serve it if it has not been frozen.

Could somebody clear this up?

[mamster]

I'm hoping they come down too especially when you ask for half a pound and he puts 3/4 pound on the scale and starts to wrap it up. I told him that I asked for half a pound and he just shrugged his shoulders.

Fishmongers always give you more than you asked for, in my experience. When I'm buying filets, I usually ask for 3/4 pound and figure I'll get a pound. It's kind of like inviting people to a party at 7:30, meaning 8:00.

[tighe]

I'm hoping they come down too especially when you ask for half a pound and he puts 3/4 pound on the scale and starts to wrap it up. I told him that I asked for half a pound and he just shrugged his shoulders. 

Fishmongers always give you more than you asked for, in my experience. When I'm buying filets, I usually ask for 3/4 pound and figure I'll get a pound. It's kind of like inviting people to a party at 7:30, meaning 8:00.

FWIW, that hasn't been my experience at Mutual. I'm constantly amazed at how the people working there can eyeball how much to cut off and typically are within a tenth of a pound of what I ask for.

[laurel]

Madison Market and Uwajimaya (same price):

King $23.99/lb

Sockeye $15.99/lb

I might be a dollar or so off because I didn't write it down.

Didn't get any because Joe requested "meat with chocolate" for dinner tonight.

[Really Nice!]

I went to Franks and bought some fennel. I'll caramelize it to sweeten it a bit and serve it as a side. I'll pan roast the salmon with a little dill, lemon oil, freshly cracked pepper and maybe some Hawaiian sea salt.

I'm thinking cat wee will go well with this so I'll serve it with a bottle of New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc.

Man, this was good!

I decided to add some capers to the fennel and what a match that was! The two played off each other really well. And the wine cut right through the oil and fat in the salmon. The wine was a New Zealand Nobilo Sauvignon Blanc (Marlborough) 2003.

It was such a lovely dinner that I think we'll do it again tonight.

[Bruce Burger]

I just called A&J Meats on Queen Anne. They said they decided to wait to carry Copper River salmon until it gets more reasonable in price in a week or so.

[lala]

I went to Franks and bought some fennel. I'll caramelize it to sweeten it a bit and serve it as a side. I'll pan roast the salmon with a little dill, lemon oil, freshly cracked pepper and maybe some Hawaiian sea salt.

I'm thinking cat wee will go well with this so I'll serve it with a bottle of New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc.

Man, this was good!

I decided to add some capers to the fennel and what a match that was! The two played off each other really well. And the wine cut right through the oil and fat in the salmon. The wine was a New Zealand Nobilo Sauvignon Blanc (Marlborough) 2003.

It was such a lovely dinner that I think we'll do it again tonight.

You're right, fennel and salmon is heaven! I like the fennel braised, with a little garlic, too.

Hey, y'all, What other veggies/sides do you make to go with your salmon?

[SusieQ]

Just came home from work, stopped on the way at the U-Village QFC. Copper River kings were $29.99/#, Copper River sockeye $14.99/#. And people were buying it!

[white lotus]

I just had CRS King at a cooking class tonight at Wholefoods on 65th. It was very nice! Wholefoods' CRS King is @ $30.00 a pound and CRS Sockeye is @ $24.00. Take care, White Lotus

[little ms foodie]

Tom Douglass has a great recipe for corn bread pudding that I like to serve with salmon.

Also if I do salmon in parchment I like to juilienne vegtables in the packets for a side. Or grill corn on the cob with spicy butter!!

[reesek]

Since the CR salmon is so fresh, is it possible to just buy it as a fillet and eat it raw, sushi/sashimi style?

i made some sushi the other night with fish from uwajimaya (CR prices posted correctly by Laurel above). i asked the woman behind the counter if it was ok to eat CR raw. she told me "it would be better" to freeze it for a couple of days first. clueless, i assumed this was for presentation (frozen or colder fish is easier to slice) she said no, then giggled at me but didn't really answer, so i didn't buy any. i bet it's critters. next time someone goes to mashiko - let's ask.

also - on the white king conversation - they have had it at madison market, and metropolitan market (west seattle). i've asked both markets about white king - is there a season? when do you have it? the answer at both markets was - no season, they'll carry it when it's offered and they don't price it any differently. Metropolitan Market carries fantastic hot smoked salmon in their fish case. about a week ago i noticed they had a couple chunks of white king. imo - the flavor difference b/w white and red salmon is highlighted by smoking. the white is sweeter and much more delicate. i thought it needed scallions and lemon zest and salt. then it required awkward rolling in nori with sushi rice. plain - i prefer the more flavorful red.

rk

[tighe]

i bet it's critters. next time someone goes to mashiko - let's ask.

Last time we were at Mashiko, scrat and I talked to Hajime about this and he said all the fish they serve is frozen first.

[Really Nice!]

Last time we were at Mashiko, scrat and I talked to Hajime about this and he said all the fish they serve is frozen first.

I wonder if this is just to make it easier to get a thin slice?

Here's some stuff from my culinary notes from a few years back.

There are two main contaminating issues here: bacteria and toxins.

For bacteria, remember that fish are a cold water species, even in the tropics. The bacteria they carry are acclimated to that colder temperature, just like the bacteria on cows are acclimated to the average cow's temperature of 101.5F. Most people don't realize this but animals carry completely different bacteria from each other, and a lot of it has to do with the temperature of the environment.

The difference between a bacteria thriving at 60F on a fish and being stored at 40F is not much compared to the bacteria thriving on a cow (whose normal body temperature is 101.5) and being stored at 40F. The bacteria on fish are more likely to survive and thrive with a 20 degree temperature difference than the 60+ degree temperature difference with meat. This is why fish spoils more quickly than meat. Bacteria does not die when it is frozen or even boiled. It develops an outer layer to protect it. At this point it becomes a spore. When a habitable environment returns, it sheds the layer and goes back to reproducing to make more bacteria.

The other main contaminating issue is toxin. Toxin is the waste product of a microorganism. It remains in the fish/meat even when the microorganism is killed by cooking, drying or freezing. No matter what, once a toxin is there, it's always there.

Biological contaminations occur due to time-temperature abuse. Since fish is the topic of discussion, I'll use that as the example. The longer you store fish, or the longer it takes to transport it, the more opportunities there are for temperature fluctuations. Therefore, the more opportunitities for toxins like listeria, ciguatera, and scombroid poisoning to develop.

As for salmon and sea bass, possible illnesses from time-temperature abuse include listeria, which can cause serious and sometimes fatal infections (listeriosis) in young children, elderly people, pregnant women, and others with weakened immune systems.

In other fish, you can get other contaminations such as:

Ciguatera, which occurs in tropical reef fish such as grouper and snapper. It accumulates in the fishes tissue after they have eaten smaller fish that munched on a certain species of algae. Ciguatera poisoning symptoms include: vomiting, itching, nausea, dizziness, temporary blindness...

Scromboid poisoning, which comes from tuna, mackerel, bluefish, and swordfish. After a period of time, the fish produce the toxin, histamine. Symptoms of scromboid poisoning include: sweating, bitter taste in the mouth, dizziness, nausea, headache, facial rash, and diarrhea.

[ScorchedPalate]

Tony Bourdain started a thread about frozen sushi-fish in the Food Media & News forum not so long ago.

If memory of this thread serves me right, sushi-fish purveyors have special freezers that bring the fish down to temperature very, very fast, thus eliminating the usual problems associated with frozen proteins. It's apparently done primarily to kill off parasites, but (most) bacteria are also eliminated.

~A

[tsquare]

But you can get seared salmon and albacore that is advertised as fresh, not frozen. Is it dumb to order it?

[Schielke]

Somebody ask the people at Mutual Fish if their tuna has been previously Frozen.

[cxt]

University Seafood between Brooklyn and University Ave on 47th has Copper River King for $22 a pound and Sockeye for $20. This is a wonderful place ("Celebrating our 55th year!") that will go out of their way to ship special orders or ice-pack fish for travelling.

I saw a New York Times article in April that said that under FDA regulation, all fish that will be eaten raw except tuna must be frozen. The chefs like how this preserves freshness and flavor and makes it easier to slice. The FDA likes how it kills potential pathogens. Because isn't the big health concern in sushi non-bacterial microscopic nematode worms? These might not survive the freezing and thawing.

Just to add to an earlier post on The Dangers Lurking in Your Food, it's true that some bacteria, like the one that causes botulism, can form an endospore that resists boiling, but not all do. Fortunately, boiling kills a reasonable number of food-borne microorganisms, including Ghiardia and pathogenic E. coli strains. I loved the info on scromboid poisoning, which triggers the reactions of an allergy. The crazy things you learn on eGullet....

[DRColby]

A friend's daughter manages a Seattle resturant where the family generally "freeloads" - eats for free - on Thursday night. This week they had Copper River Sockeye on the menu. Daughter told father," none for you, that's for the paying customers," at $34 a plate.

dave

[Bruce Burger]

The CR king salmon fillets were $22.99/lb yesterday at PureFish (or is it PureFood?) at Pike Place Market yesterday. Delicious, of course...

[little ms foodie]

Whole Foods has the sockey for $24.99 per pound fillets. Bought some for the grill tonight but will wait until the prices come down before buying more or the King.

question of the day.... what's higher? the price of gas or the price of CRS each relatively speaking?

[Really Nice!]

Was in Kirkland Costco on Saturday where they had whole CRS sockeyes for $6.99 a pound. I'm guessing they weighed somewhere around 6-8 pounds.

[Schielke]

Went to dinner at 3rd Floor Fish Cafe in Kirkland on Sat and had CR King w/ white corn and crispy onions...fan-tastic, but $35 for the plate eek!

Ben

[chasmartel]

Last night at Whole Foods in San Rafael, CA, CRS chinook (I think) was $34.99/lb with sockeye at $24.99. I'm not opposed to paying a lot for something like CRS, but I worry about how fresh it would be by the time it gets here -- and how long even a usually trustworthy-seller like Whole Foods might keep such an expensive product out for sale to try and cover its costs.

We had just flown in in from a weekend in Dayton OH and desperately needed fresh fish. Local king salmon was $9.99, so we went with what we knew. (We drank a $40 Dehlinger pinot noir with it and very happy.)

[lala]

In the Uwajimaya flyer, they're advertising Copper River (type of fish unspecified) at $5.99/lb, whole fish. May 26 - June 1

http://www.uwajimaya.com/storespecials.html

[Camdon]

Yikes! I had no idea people in the lower 48 were paying 20-30$ per pound for Copper River salmon. I should have sold all of the kings and reds my family (and dogs) and I have eaten on the seafood black market.

I guess it just all depends on where you live. I imagine that someone from California would be horrifed to discover what I am willing to pay for an artichoke.