Holly Moore: Fugitive

[HungryChris]

You would think if someone was proud of their operation, they would want as much picture taking as possible. This thread calls to mind, however a time a few years ago when I was helping a contractor friend of mine on a Saturday in Norwich, CT. We got coffee and a muffin in a little place, in the morning a few doors down from where we were doing some renovation. At lunch time we went back to the same place only to discover that it was closed. The next morning that I was there, I asked why they didn't stay open for lunch on weekends and the woman running the register told me, "Oh no, we used to do that, but it just gets too busy!"

People are funny!!!!

Cheers,

HC

[rlibkind]

I asked why they didn't stay open for lunch on weekends and the woman running the register told me, "Oh no,  we used to do that, but it just gets too busy!"

People are funny!!!!

Sounds like Lawrence P. Berra's famous line: "No one goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

[Mabelline]

Perhaps the name of the joint should have caused a pause with regards to hospitality: Tommy Gunn's? Hello...perfect name for a re-plant of the witness protection plan, hmmm?

[KatieLoeb]

Perhaps the name of the joint should have caused a pause with regards to hospitality: Tommy Gunn's? Hello...perfect name for a re-plant of the witness protection plan, hmmm?

This is what I'm sayin'...

[Holly Moore]

Heats off thanks to Michael Klein

[Bombdog]

Chris: In your day job, have any stories similar to this made the rounds? What is the general attitude of the cops who get called by guys like this restaurant owner? That side of the story seems kinda interesting... how much importance is assigned to calls about trespassing of this sort?

I can tell you, from a beat officers point of view, that this is right up there with barking dogs and loud music calls. It would be assigned as a priority 3 (1 being immediate) and depending on the time of day it could take a hour or so to even see an officer. Most responding officers would not treat it as a trespass unless the subject returned and refused to leave. As far as the attitude of the responding officers, once again depending on the time of day and calls pending, it would be something along the lines of "Why are you bothering me with this?"

[Andrew Fenton]

When asked, Moore told Usowski of his gustatory hobby, but Usowski wasn't convinced. He demanded to know why Moore hadn't asked for permission before shooting, and believed that Moore - who had pulled up in a snazzy Range Rover - was doing "semi-espionage" work, perhaps for someone who "wanted to rip off some of our hard work."

Holly Moore: Semi-Secret Aaaaaagent Maaaaaan!

[KatieLoeb]

When asked, Moore told Usowski of his gustatory hobby, but Usowski wasn't convinced. He demanded to know why Moore hadn't asked for permission before shooting, and believed that Moore - who had pulled up in a snazzy Range Rover - was doing "semi-espionage" work, perhaps for someone who "wanted to rip off some of our hard work."

Holly Moore: Semi-Secret Aaaaaagent Maaaaaan!

Ohmigosh! I'm never going to be able to look at Holly again without hearing that tune in my head! Earworm planted!

Bad Andrew

[ronnie_suburban]

Heats off thanks to Michael Klein

=R=

[tommygunns]

Quick message to Holly Moore and all his vehement fans from Tommy Miller: All this fuss and we've only been in business 15 days !! As co founder of Tommygunns American Barbeque my sincere apology for the, shall we say, less than warm welcome that you received from Michael, my business partner. Hopefully you can chalk it up to first week stress. Despite what appears to be popular opinion amongst your readers, we are interested in nothing more than serving some of the finest American barbeque in an environment that is welcoming to all, i.e. a place whos appeal transcends the border of traditional gender, economic, race, and age divisions. Chef Eddie Vann is a genius, a Philly native who blends his rich bbq roots with formal culinary training (he's a recent grad of phila institute of art culinary division). I invite you and your reader group back anytime. Make sure you try the pulled pork or the ribs - the side dishes, bake beans, collard greens, and corn salad are winners too. Cheers - Tommy

p.s Eddie will have the fried mac up to speed soon enough.

[mantee]

Holly gets to try the fried mac&cheece, there is a God!

[WHT]

I remember some time back commenting on taking pictures of food and places. It was greeted with snide comments and arrogant platitudes. I feel vindicated, as it would seem that some of what I brought up and was sneered for has transpired.

Sorry it had to happen to Holly as I enjoy your work and posts. I have noticed a trend here in Chicago to have signs warning against photos, video or audio without prior consent. Has anyone else seen this in there area?

Edited May 13, 2004 by WHT (log)

[John]

Will Holly be allowed to take a picture of the fried mac & cheese?

[Mabelline]

Wow! Talk about a response! Take a bow, Holly! And that's pretty cool that Mr. Miller took the time to look it up and all...I am impressed...

[Holly Moore]

I remember some time back commenting on taking pictures of food and places. It was greeted with snide comments and arrogant platitudes. I feel vindicated, as it would seem that some of what I brought up and was sneered for has transpired.

Sorry it had to happen to Holly as I enjoy your work and posts. I have noticed a trend here in Chicago to have signs warning against photos, video or audio without prior consent. Has anyone else seen this in there area?

Got me curious so I searched up the thread, here. I thought we had a decent discussion.

I'm not sorry this happened. It was a funny experience. I have a great tale to spread - over and over and over, as is my way. And it had a happy ending.

[bigbear]

I think that Michael, Tommy Miller's business partner, is a genius.

[stephenc]

Holly, Can I borrow your "snazzy Range Rover?" I have a date tonight.

[Holly Moore]

Holly, Can I borrow your "snazzy Range Rover?"  I have a date tonight.

I "owe" Michael Klein both for that line and for labeling me a foodie.

Edited May 13, 2004 by Holly Moore (log)

[Derek Lee]

I guess I can see both sides of this issue.

As an avid *real* barbecue fan and KCBS judge, I can pretty much say that a barbecuer's ingredients, his methods, his rubs, and his marinades are all sacred secrets, not to be shared to anyone outside of the immediate bloodline. But the thing is, most barbecuers are really friendly, the barbecue competition circuit is close-knit, and generally things are very easygoing.

That's as far as I would side with the restaurant owner in this case.

You weren't taking pictures of the cooking methods, or of the ingredients. You were taking pictures of the decor, and of the food, and of what the place look like on the outside.

Years ago, my wife worked for a small regional music store down in the South. The owner also prohibited the taking of pictures inside the store, presumably to prevent others from "stealing" his idea for configuration and listening stations. This whole way of thinking is, to me, quite unreasonable. It's not as if you're going to open up a competing barbecue restaurant and design it so that it looks JUST LIKE his restaurant.

Also, in my quickly-fading-into-rear view experience as an attorney, I can tell you that the outside of the building is in plain sight, and he probably doesn't have a right to restrict you from taking pictures of the exterior.

Derek

http://www.threateningletters.com

(When a kind word just isn't enough)

[ellencho]

So I finally broke down and visited the place. It's very smokey/hickory smelling inside, and it's really quite tiny. There's a couple small tables so you can eat indoors, as well as some picnic tables outdoors so you can enjoy your food out there. The menu looked really limited and was painted onto a slab of wood. They just had different sized portions of ribs, pulled pork sandwiches and brisket sandwiches along with a bunch of sides.

We ordered a half a rack of baby back ribs and a large brisket sandwiches. For sides we ordered cornbread, collards and cole slaw.

The ribs were pretty good, 9.99 for half a rack. They were served dry and before I tried them dry first. They have a nice spicy cumin-y rub on the outside, and it formed a nice crust on the meat. Although they aren't the best ribs in the universe, I would have been fine eating them without the sauce. The brisket was also served with sauce on the side and in comparison to the ribs, I enjoyed the brisket much more. It was thickly cut into hunks and served between a kaiser roll. Excellent texture. 6.99 for a large sandwich. The sauce is definitely delicious. It's a tomato based vinegar type sauce, but none of the flavors are too strong and it compliments the fattiness of the meat well.

All of the sides they offer are 1.79 per portion which I thought was a bit steep. Perhaps 1.29 or even a dollar for some of the sides. Especially for a 3x5 index card sized piece of the cornbread, however, I must note that the cornbread was exceptionally delicious. It was a moist cornbread, nearly as moist as a corn pudding, very dense, and much less cakey than your average cornbread - and it had chunks of corn in it too. The coleslaw was good too, it was yellow in color, which I'm assuming is from mustard, and they threw in a healthy amount of celery seed. However I thought they could have been more generous with their portion. They didn't completely fill up the container with the slaw and come on now, cabbage is cheap guys! The portion of collards was fine though. Filled the container up to the rim and it was cooked properly with a tinge of acidity.

I'm glad I tried the place, especially since it's so near to my apt, but now I"m more interested in trying the other bbq places around Philly before I go visit again. I agree totally with Holly's 3 grease stain grade.

[Andrew Fenton]

When I went to Tacconelli's the other night, I noticed that a bar around the corner (The West Street Inn, 2537 E. Somerset) had a sign reading "Tommy Gunn's." Ducked in and grabbed a menu; sure enough, this is the same company as the Manayunk location. My guess is that they don't do the smoking at both locations ('cue reheats well), but I may be wrong about that, and I didn't have time to ask questions.

Has anybody been to the Port Richmond location? Is it any good?

edit: Oh yeah, they also deliver. But not past Fishtown, I'd guess.

Edited March 1, 2005 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[Mnehrling]

Interesting.  What could I photograph in a rib joint that would be a basis for a search warrant?  Even if I took pictures of customers eating, could the judge draw the conclusion that I have a fetish for lips dripping of bbq sauce and am stalking a sensual diner?

←

Were there any children in there? Some people are very wary of people taking pics of kids (and I don't blame them).

[andiesenji]

I too wonder at the attitude of anyone who refused to have photos taken of their food service.

Several years ago I drove down to a town in San Diego county and met a friend and went to a restaurant that had gotten a fair amount of press in the local news recently.

They had an outstanding buffet and I was so impressed I took some photos as we were being show to our table.

The manager/owner came up to me and tried to grab my camera and when I resisted said he was going to call the police and have me up on "charges".

My friend walked up and asked what was the problem. The manager said I want the film that "B-word" took or I will call the police and also my friend Judge So and So and have her arrested!

MY friend said, so you know Judge So and So, and the idiot said, "I certainly do." Whereupon my friend said I doubt that as I certainly don't remember you, and if you had bothered to read the local paper you would recognize me, as my picture appeared last week and if you are going to drop names, you should really know the person whose name you are dropping.

He went on to say that we were leaving and would advise any of HIS friends not to patronize the restaurant.

The place was out of business within 6 months.

It's nice to have friends that carry big sticks!!!

[Andrew Fenton]

The manager said I want the film that "B-word" took or I will call the police and also my friend Judge So and So and have her arrested!

MY friend said, so you know Judge So and So, and the idiot said,  "I certainly do."  Whereupon my friend said I doubt that as I certainly don't remember you, and if you had bothered to read the local paper you would recognize me, as my picture appeared last week and if you are going to drop names, you should really know the person whose name you are dropping.

It's nice to have friends that carry big sticks!!!

Awesome. You've always gotta treasure those Annie Hall moments; they're few and far between.

[BonfireCuisine]

My hobby is photography – (To quote someone on PhotoSig where I post my photos) “In very general terms, you can take photos of whatever you want from a public place, including people. Since you took the photo, you own the copyright. However, what you can do with that photo varies. You can sell it for editorial use without a release. That usually means newspapers, magazines, tabloids, etc. If you want to use it for commercial purposes (advertising, stock, product, etc.) then you will need a release from the person first.”

(google under model release) But taking photos inside of a restaurant at say the buffet – is a gray area. I think someone on the thread say “it all depends on the person that is confronting you”, it’ not really illegal to take pictures – sort of. I would bet it has a lot to do with copyright/trade mark stuff. I’ve taken some pictures of people at a fair, most times no one says anything to me – only once have I had someone ask me not to. If you are really interested in a larger thread on this, check out www.photosig.com on their forum section. It comes up every month and of course there are long debates about what is legal and not – any way back to food.

So I thought I’ve heard everything about food – even tasted deep friend twinkees (strange flavor but good) but I’ve never heard of “Fried Mac n Cheese” – what is it?