What is Northwest cuisine? Is there such a thing?

[Steve Ramsey]

I'm going to have a chance to do it in a restaurant setting, problem is, I can't pin it down.

We have some great ingredients here, and some nice wines, but salmon and shellfish are what they are. In and of themselves they don't define the region.

I'm not talking about ethnic foods either. I'm talking about taking the best and freshest local ingredients and coming up with dishes that say "Northwest".

Lutefisk pho and spicy thai salmon don't grab me. Fusion sucks.

Edited May 6, 2004 by Steve Ramsey (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

I was given a pretty cool cookbook about ten years ago, Pacific Northwest Flavors by Michael Skott and Lori McKean.

Here's some of the recipes:

Coastal

- Corn & Oyster Chowder

- Wild Mushroom & Seafood Chowder

- Matsutake Mushrooms in Seaweed Broth

- Sea Urchin Bisque

- Panfried Oysers Parmesan

- Sautee Abalone with Pink Gooseberry Sauce

- Salmon with Blackberry Pinot Noir Sauce

Farmlands

- Raven Hill Herb Farm's Chilled Sorrel & Spinach Soup

- Goat Cheese, Bacon, and Walla Walla Onion Frittata

- Oregon Blue Cheese Torte with Hazlenut Pastry

- Warm Tea-Smoked Chicken Salad with Hazelnut Dressing

- Chicken in Pinot Noir with Wild Mushrooms and Bacon

- Fraser Valley Pheasant with Okanagan Peach Sauce

- Poached Pears in Cabernet Sauvignon with Creme Fraiche

Cities

- Acorn Squash and Pear Bisque

- Hot Oysters in Beurre Blanc with Cucumber and Swiss Chard

- Dungeness Crab and Comice Pear Salad with Sesame-Ginger Dressing

- Warm Skate Wing with Coriander Sauce

- Berry Compote with Pear Eau-de-Vie

Mountains and Forests[/bi]

- Spring Vegetable Pate with Watercress and Fiddlehead Ferns

- Sagebrush Biscuits

- Wild Greens and Alpine Strawberry Salad with Strawberry-Peppermint Vinaigrette

- Venison with Blueberry Vermouth Sauce

Hope this helps!

[tsquare]

Congrats on the gig Steve.

As to what to cook - well, I'd suggest looking at what is being done at Cascadia, Zoe, Earth and Ocean, Lark, Union, Eva, Union Bay Cafe, The Ark and the like. If it needs to be less spendy, I'm sure someone else will come up with some suggestions. Just cook seasonally, and locally grown and it should be pretty good. There have been some long winded discussions here in the past. I don't recall the consensus, or if there was one. Don't forget nettles, mushrooms, and blackberries.

Oh - check out Wildwood - the cookbook. Great essays and some fine recipes.

Edited May 6, 2004 by tsquare (log)

[ExtraMSG]

I think these features are common in NW cuisine:

1) Simple and rustic preparations and presentations

2) Rustic French, Italian, and Mediterranean leanings

3) Local ingredients with an emphasis on:

-----seafood: shellfish, crab, salmon, halibut

-----game: venison, elk

-----poultry: duck, pheasant, quail

-----pork, bacon, and ham

-----nuts: walnuts, hazelnuts

-----berries and stone fruit

-----apples and pears

-----cheeses: chevre and blue

-----squash

-----greens

-----root vegetables

-----rustic Italian and French breads

-----coffee and beer

-----local wine varieties

I think even though she's not truly PacificNW, in large measure you can think of Alice Waters's food with a more Washington/Oregon emphasis on ingredients. But I think it's very similar. So her books and menus with our ingredients (though we share a lot of ingredients with northern California and borrow a lot of ingredients from California, like oranges. I think the simple and rustic idea is very important, though -- braises in the winter, grilled game, sauces that aren't too refined, presentations that don't tower to the ceiling, desserts that don't look like modern art sculptures, etc. Also the occasional Asian or even Latin American fusion.

The best exemplar I've seen so far is Cory Schreiber's Wildwood. Here's a copy of his book on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai.../egulletcom-20/

Here are some recipes from that (their website also has their menus which always make me hungry: http://www.wildwoodrestaurant.com ):

SEAFOOD

* Wood-roasted clams with saffron, tomato, garlic, and grilled bread

* Apple cider cured smoked salmon

* Golden potato, leek, and oyster hash cakes

* Salad of field greens, crispy fried oysters, aioli, and smoky bacon on an herbed crepe

* Cedar-planked salmon

* Poached salmon with warm clam and bacon vinaigrette

* Olympia oyster, fennel, and bacon chowder

* Warm scallop and endive salad with orange, walnuts, and pomegranates

* Crab cakes with orange, fennel, and watercress salad

* Creamed crab on brioche with wild mushrooms and thyme

VEGETABLES

* Leek and English pea soup with asparagus and curly pasta

* Pan braised spring fennel with olive oil, honey, and orange

* Red lentil and fennel ragout with bacon, carrots, and thyme

* Wilted young spinach salad with hazelnuts, smoked trout, and oregon blue cheese

* Sweet onion sandwich

* Asparagus with spring onion-lemon vinaigrette, sorrel, and goat cheese

* Baked stuffed chard leaves with spring garlic, potatoes, goat cheese, and black olive vinaigrette

* Fresh herb pizza

* Corn soup with red mustard greens and red potatoes

* Roasted beets with fennel seeds, oranges, and goat cheese

* Potato dumplings with pumpkin, hazelnuts, bacon, and brown butter

* Acorn squash and cider soup

MUSHROOMS

* Sauteed chanterelles with shallots and fines herbes

* Chanterelle soup with dried apples, hazelnuts, and apple brandy

* Warm chanterelle salad with onions, summer berries, and white cheddar toast

* Mushroom bread pudding

* Creamed morels with aple brandy, thyme, and roasted garlic

* Roasted porcini on garlic mashed potatoes

* Whole roasted portobello with soft polenta and wilted spinach

WINE

* Braised should of lamb with pinot noir, raisins, and carrot puree

* Chicken legs braised in pinot noir and blackberries with fennel puree

* Roasted pork loin with Gewurztraminer-Apricot compote and vegetable barley

GAME AND FOWL

* Duck breast with mushroom spaetzle and red wine braised cabbage

* Red wine braised duck legs with sour cherries, parsnip puree, and balsamic roasted pears

* Quail with grilled Walla Walla onions, cherries, and wilted arugala

* Roasted partridge withcreamed brussels sprouts, walnuts, and bacon

* Leg of venison with cider-baked apples, red chard, and cranberry sauce

BERRIES

* Strawberry-buttermilk ice cream

* Blueberry-lemon buckle with whipped cream

* Currant-hazelnut cookies

FRUIT

* Clover honey baked apples with raisins and cinnamon

* Peaches wrapped in filo dough with walnuts, cheese, and cherry sauce

* Peach and hazelnut cinnamon rolls

* Brown butter and cherry clafoutis

* Pear and dried cherry turnovers

[petite tête de chou]

I'm going to have a chance to do it in a restaurant setting, problem is, I can't pin it down.

We have some great ingredients here, and some nice wines, but salmon and shellfish are what they are. In and of themselves they don't define the region.

I'm not talking about ethnic foods either. I'm talking about taking the best and freshest local ingredients and coming up with dishes that say "Northwest".

Lutefisk pho and spicy thai salmon don't grab me. Fusion sucks.

What do you mean by "ethnic foods?" And why don't you want them?

[DRColby]

I would say Greg Atkinson's "In Season" cookbook is pretty NW cuisine and if you read some of James Beard's books he's pretty NW in his use of fish and seafood.

dave

[Mayhaw Man]

I was given a copy of "Portland Palate" (Portland Jr League)a couple of years ago and have really enjoyed it. THere are some very good seafood recipes that are a nice alternative to the way that I usually handle it (the Louisiana/Gulf Coast way).

[Saydee]

Salmon on a cedar plank. It don't get no more PNW than that.

Edited May 6, 2004 by Saydee (log)

[thelastsupper]

The question is, what defines a cuisine? In my opinion, Chez Panisse does not cook California cuisine although Alice Waters and her staff are very devoted to the products of California. Cuisine emerges after generations and generations of cooking local produce and finding out what works. I'm not certain that a Northwest cuisine does exist, although the dishes mentioned are certainly good vehicles to showcase the amazing products we have around us. The closest that we have is probably fresh oysters, salmon and dungeness crab-- prepared simply and fresh, fresh, fresh.

[lleechef]

Living in Alaska, you can't get any farther northwest......so don't forget king crab, moose, caribou and halbiut.

[clothier]

Lutefisk

You need lutefisk on the menu. No doubt about it.

I hear their's a diner near DC/Baltimore that has it on the menu, and can't keep it in stock.

[Steve Ramsey]

I'm going to have a chance to do it in a restaurant setting, problem is, I can't pin it down.

We have some great ingredients here, and some nice wines, but salmon and shellfish are what they are. In and of themselves they don't define the region.

I'm not talking about ethnic foods either. I'm talking about taking the best and freshest local ingredients and coming up with dishes that say "Northwest".

Lutefisk pho and spicy thai salmon don't grab me. Fusion sucks.

What do you mean by "ethnic foods?" And why don't you want them?

I mean, Chinese, Vietnames, Japanese, Norwegiean and particularly Thai.

The all represent a particular culture that was transplanted here, and has in every way remained separate and distinct, unto itself.

They may be fine representations of where they originated, but they don't say "Northwest" to me.

And trying to cross the boundaries and meld these cuisines has always seems silly to me. I know, lots of chefs out there are trying to do it, with varying degrees of sucess, but I've just never been a fan of that style. It's just cheap novelty that gets attention and the dies and goes away.

Quail would be nice if I could find some locally grown.

I could order in from Dartagnan, would that be a cop out?

And rabbit is also available locally, but not really popular as far as I can tell.

Local wild mushrooms, in season, are obtainable though.

And I'm no botanist when it come to wild greens, but I suppose a trip to the local farmers markets might be in order.

And alaska is not to be left out, and I like using halibut quite a bit, but try and get some usda inspected moose or caribou.

Legalities and proper food handling must be considered.

But hey, the thought just occured to me....Buffalo.

Lots of bison available around these parts.........

The menu's that have been posted are certainly good ones, but there are some decidedly un-northwest concepts with a few of those items

But conceptually, the drift I'm getting from most of you is that Northwest cuisine could be at least partially defined as:

1. 100% freshness of ingredients.

2. Lighter on starch, heavier on veg, with moderate emphasis on meat, poultry and fish that is rich enough in flavor to perhaps only require light sauces.

3. Grilled, steamed, and and saute items in, roasted, deep fried, and braised out, for the most part, with exceptions of course.

Am I "getting it"?

Edited May 7, 2004 by Steve Ramsey (log)

[Steve Ramsey]

Salmon on a cedar plank. It don't get no more PNW than that.

Fish on a board.

If thats all we have going for us, we have a lot of thinking to do.

[Steve Ramsey]

The question is, what defines a cuisine? In my opinion, Chez Panisse does not cook California cuisine although Alice Waters and her staff are very devoted to the products of California. Cuisine emerges after generations and generations of cooking local produce and finding out what works. I'm not certain that a Northwest cuisine does exist, although the dishes mentioned are certainly good vehicles to showcase the amazing products we have around us. The closest that we have is probably fresh oysters, salmon and dungeness crab-- prepared simply and fresh, fresh, fresh.

That's my point.

We COULD have our own, and we SHOULD have our own.

Now if we can just get a general idea of what it should be.......

I lost out on a job in a Seattle hotel, it was probably a good thing.

The cuisine was "Cal-Ital"........

I still don't know what the hell that is.

[Steve Ramsey]

Lutefisk

You need lutefisk on the menu. No doubt about it.

I hear their's a diner near DC/Baltimore that has it on the menu, and can't keep it in stock.

I'll send them to ballard if they want it, or any other Ya sure ya betcha nostalgia.

[ExtraMSG]

Am I "getting it"?

Steve, I think think it's more about style than method. Braises are very common here in Portland, especially in winter, of course. But even braised greens and vegetables. Think rustic and unpretentious, with simple presentations and simple but complimentary combinations of flavor.

A classic is the salad you see commonly with greens, blue or goat cheese, a dried fruit, and nuts. I reiterate: look at what Alice Water's has done. Her recipes are very similar in style to what I think of as NW cuisine. There are just some slight variations here and there. I can't imagine a person from the SW or another country could really tell the difference, just like someone from the NE or France would have a hard time telling the difference between Arizona-Mexican food and Tex-Mex. They're part of a continuum. And cuisines are dynamic things anyways.

The question is, what defines a cuisine? In my opinion, Chez Panisse does not cook California cuisine although Alice Waters and her staff are very devoted to the products of California. Cuisine emerges after generations and generations of cooking local produce and finding out what works. I'm not certain that a Northwest cuisine does exist, although the dishes mentioned are certainly good vehicles to showcase the amazing products we have around us. The closest that we have is probably fresh oysters, salmon and dungeness crab-- prepared simply and fresh, fresh, fresh.

I disagree. A cuisine emergences when it is identifiable and nameable. When you can distinguish it from something else, it is. Clearly the way people on the west coast cook and many of the ingredients we use and the way our dishes are presented are different from the SW, the midwest, the NE, etc. It feels and looks and tastes different and so it has been named.

NW and California cuisine is primarily a restaurant cuisine and gourmet cuisine, but it exists nonetheless, just like broader categories like Nouvelle French or Nuevo Latino or even the very broad "haute cuisine". It might be historically analogous to something like the royal cuisines of other countries. Not peasant food. Not homecooking. But generally distinguishible.

It's the way of most American cuisines anyway. They're not things people really make much anymore. What people make is the general American food of fast food and food from a box. (Except gourmets and people cooks in restaurants, that is.)

[lala]

Steve, this thread has me very confused.

While European descendents have only been in this area for what, 150-200 years, the area was populated well before that. The locals in past eras have enjoyed the natural bounty of seafood, nuts, berries, fowl and beasts on the hoof, most of which are (so far, and luckily) still available to us. When Saydee suggests Cedar Planked Salmon, and you shoot it down, you denigrate centuries of actual Pacific Northwest cooking. Why not see this dish as a starting point, and go from there?

Immigrants reflect the Melting Pot here as much as anywhere else in the US, with an emphasis on Asians and their cuisine as well. (Along with micro-immigrant pockets such as those lutefisk eaters in Ballard ) Yes, there is some fusion, as Asians move here, and we travel to Asia, and assimilate those flavors into our own. Maybe that should be more accurately referred to as 'Pacific Rim' cuisine, and ignored, if you wish to focus solely on Pacific NW food.

I really think that others have done an excellent job in defining NW cuisine. This is a young area, in terms of non-native inhabitants, so maybe it's just not as developed as you wish, or maybe you wish it was a more complicated style, so it would be more of a challenge in the kitchen. Pacific NW cooking, to me, is to use the local ingredients in a simple, straightforward way, as has been amply illustrated by others here.

Steve, if you're going to take the reins and run with this, more power to you. It would be great fun to see how you choose to elevate our local cuisine! Can you tell us where this restaurant is? If you don't want to make it public, would you please PM me? I'm really curious!

[malarkey]

While European descendents have only been in this area for what, 150-200 years, the area was populated well before that. The locals in past eras have enjoyed the natural bounty of seafood, nuts, berries, fowl and beasts on the hoof, most of which are (so far, and luckily) still available to us. When Saydee suggests Cedar Planked Salmon, and you shoot it down, you denigrate centuries of actual Pacific Northwest cooking. Why not see this dish as a starting point, and go from there?

I'll go even further than that. I think an Asian influence is very much a part of NW cuisine. Sure, its tradition isn't as old as cedar planked salmon, but this IS the Pacific Rim, and it has been for awhile now and I'd argue that it is an inextricable part of what is PNW cuisine.

[lala]

Personally, Malarkey, I agree.

It seemed like Steve was struggling to define his idea of Pac NW cuisine, for this historic Pac NW building in which he will be cooking, and had already decided that Asian flavors did not have a place in his lexicon. I've seen Pac NW referred to in both the more 'Natural' (in terms of local ingredients and cooking methods), as well as incorporating Asian influences. My personal definition does include Asian flavors used in the simple NW cooking style, while his does not:

"Lutefisk pho and spicy thai salmon don't grab me. Fusion sucks." "I mean, Chinese, Vietnames, Japanese, Norwegiean and particularly Thai.

The all represent a particular culture that was transplanted here, and has in every way remained separate and distinct, unto itself.

They may be fine representations of where they originated, but they don't say "Northwest" to me.

And trying to cross the boundaries and meld these cuisines has always seems silly to me. I know, lots of chefs out there are trying to do it, with varying degrees of sucess, but I've just never been a fan of that style. It's just cheap novelty that gets attention and the dies and goes away."

I feel that he's limiting himself, but tried to help him define Pac NW cuisine within his own limits. Maybe I did not succeed.

I quote myself:

"Maybe that should be more accurately referred to as 'Pacific Rim' cuisine, and ignored, if you wish to focus solely on Pacific NW food."

Again, personally, I mix it all up, feeling no reason to limit the possibilities. I had a delicious Ginger glazed Planked Salmon at Chandlers yesterday, which nicely merged traditional Pacific NW and Pacific Rim!

Edited May 7, 2004 by lala (log)

[reesek]

i guess i'm not sure i understand how immigrant influences aren't as important a factor of cuisine as the natural bounty of the region...

what's new york without pastrami and rye? and pickles..oh pickles

the only regions in this country that i think are easy to define by their food are those, like maine, which aren't very diverse.

though - certainly as lala/saydee point out - cedar planked salmon is pretty authentically northwest. (so are hot smoked salmon and marionberries)

[lala]

Damn. All this talk of planked and hot smoked salmon. I have to go to Jack's now and get me some...

[Steve Ramsey]

Regards my dismissal of certain dishes and cuisines:

I have nothing against cedar plank salmon.

Lots of places do it, and do it very well, just like clam chowder.

But I'm sorry, a trip to Ivar's doesn't define Northwest cuisine.

I'm not interested in doing thing that others have been doing forever, and will continue to do forever, and probably better.

As to asian.

I am more than willing to leave it to those who do it best.

In the immediate area where I live, fine dining has failed in several location.

But chinese and thai is all over the place. So much so that I find it hackneyd, dumbed down, and boring.

Just like gringoized Mexican food. It's losing it's genuineness as it is. It doesn't need me or anyone else trying to infuse it into french method cooking.

I am however, going to have to do more reseach into the native american end of things.

I'm going to have to find out what folks were eating around here before fast food and the chain restaurants took over.

As to cooking methods.

Ok, They do braises in portland. Good. I like braises.

And I did mention exceptions.

I was thinking Buffalo would be a good candidate.

But because somebody is doing something sucessfully, does that make it a definable cuisine?

I could just sell pizza, and probably do pretty well.

I'm still thinking grill/saute/steam/smoke.

Local and wild greens and fungi.

Native seafood, poultry and meats, or knockoffs of same.

Light sauces.

Berries/fruits/nuts.

Salmon will be there is some manner, but not the same done to death form.

Trout.

Starches seem to be the sticking point.

Maybe risotto with morels.

Yukon gold potatos.

Bulgar wheat and barley.

Pasta with...........................................

EDIT.

I see this debate has been had here before:in this thread about cascadia

In addition to ingredient, style, attitude and presentation must be considered,

It would seem to me that part of the problem is that across the northwest, styles change from the utterly crude yet wonderful, to the elegant and pretentious.

You can take all the local ingredients you want, overdress them, put them in high heels and produce something utterly un-northwest.

It's very possible that we DO have a cuisine, it just may have been lost fifty years ago.

Edited May 8, 2004 by Steve Ramsey (log)

[mb7o]

er, what makes something NW? lots of suggestions here, from pre-european (plank cooked fish, local berries, dried fish, etc) to modern (a whopping 200 years later, NW fusion). since you dismiss both, what is the magic point half way between?

maybe read louis & clark?

bison doesn't really count--i belive they are all recent transplants from other parts of the country (great plains)

as for presentation, a potlatch? kind of hard to do on a commerical or daily basis. unless you want to go down the route of Tillicum Village.

[Steve Ramsey]

er, what makes something NW? lots of suggestions here, from pre-european (plank cooked fish, local berries, dried fish, etc) to modern (a whopping 200 years later, NW fusion). since you dismiss both, what is the magic point half way between?

maybe read louis & clark?

bison doesn't really count--i belive they are all recent transplants from other parts of the country (great plains)

as for presentation, a potlatch? kind of hard to do on a commerical or daily basis. unless you want to go down the route of Tillicum Village.

I would submit that Bison do count.

Idaho is part of the pnw and unless I'm mistaken, a few existed in the wild in the panhandle.

Lokking backward for answers doen't necessarily mean going prehistoric or going native either.

I'm not ready to start a campfire and call it a kitchen.

I'm just looking for honest reflections of the region without being overly pretentious, hip, or cool.

I COULD do tournedos of caribou with oregon truffles, or fir needle sorbet, but I doubt I would.

That kind of stuff is just shock value for the uninitiated.

[ExtraMSG]

Just to be a little technical here, but Idaho never touches the Pacific. Even though it is often included in the PNW, culturally and geographically, it's probably more appropriate to put it in the mountain west along with Montana, Wyoming, Utah, and Colorado.

Native American foods will only do so much for you. They were never truly adopted like the Mexican/Indian foods were in the SW. eg, did Pioneers ever eat whale as a major part of their diet? Did they cook with the fat of whales and salmon? Did they cook using river rocks, rather than just pots over fire, etc? I'm sure they used the natural bounty, and brought a lot with them, but I don't remember ever reading that the pioneers ever assimilated much. I imagine they had no problem using their European methods in Oregon, Washington, N. California, and BC.

Personally, I'm not sure what you're looking for. Defining such things is dicey. In general, the best way is just to eat it or immerse yourself in it.