Embracing Culinary Clichés

[mongo_jones]

molten chocolate cake

nothing to do with chocolate can ever be a cliche. white-chocolate, yes, but not real chocolate. wait, i take that back and nominate: chocolate covered strawberries. waste of strawberries, waste of chocolate.

[Toliver]

so, anyone have any experience in dropping pigs?

I've had experience with pig droppings...not quite the same thing, is it?

[sequim]

Why is there even a need to call something fad, cliche or classic?  Good food is good food, if it is good, eat it, and enjoy it.  If it is bad, and just around because it is trendy, don't eat it or don't make it. 

That works for one's home cooking, but at a restaurant, it's different. I'd gotten so sick of seeing garlic mashed potatoes last year at all the restaurants, yet this is a classically good dish. Every time period has its fads - I guess it's a matter of time passing, the fad falling out of favor and then it becomes a classic.

An example of finding something that you think is new that was a fad. I recently read about frozen souffles and in Carolyn's eGullet class on souffles, I mentioned how great these looked. However, she wrote that she saw these all the time growing up and had gotten sick of them so had no desire to make them. Even if something is done well, it can still be a fad and people will get sick of it. However, if enough time passes, the dish will come into respected favor again if it's a decent recipe.

I'm alittle confused about what is considered a cliche though. Perhaps something that can taste good yet is so indicative of a time and place that it is snickered at. Maybe Carolyn's frozen souffles were a cliche of the 60's dinner parties.

[thursdaynext]

I think a good food idea should get to stick around. Period.

Hear, hear!

[reesek]

the dull, meaty thud

talk about poetry...mongo - you're my hero.

back to topic - GG Mora - this is a great topic...consensus seems to be the cliche is something one either doesn't like, or that seems dated or overdone. i suppose i'm comfortable not being on the cutting edge, as i love many things (without shame) that are arguably passe - like erm, mango salsa on salmon.

however - to bring up balmagowry's point of classic v. cliche - isn't creme brulee a classic that's been over-exposed to the point of absurdity? i'm by no means a great cook - but my first attempt at creme brulee was 3x better than what i've had in most restaurants.

caprese salad and bruschetta seem to have suffered a similar fate from their ubiquity...the next time i'm served a "bruschetta" on cold, ungrilled bread - it's not going to be pretty.

i wonder if what seems cliche varies dramatically by region...in seattle - i'd say seared sesame crusted ahi with some sort of soy glaze and bok choy is cliche...simply because it shows up a lot on menus and no longer seems innovative. it can be good though...but i feel like a tourist when i order it.

[andiesenji]

Whether a "cliche" or a "classic" tastes change over time.

It is true that foods go "out of style" or out of favor and then reappear as if new and the cycle seems to be a bit more than a generation.

Take for instance fondue - in the '60s fondue pots proliferated and every other party I attended has something melted in a pot with various things (some rather odd) for dipping.

I can recall being able to find fondue forks in many stores, including the Five and Dime which disappeared also, then were reincarnated as the 99 cent or Under A Buck stores, although these have only a fraction of the number of items found in the old stores.

About a year ago I opened one of the numerous catalogs that come in the mail and there, on the front cover, was a fondue pot. In fact there were three in the catalog, one was an electric.

Fondue as a rare treat, as long as it is made properly, is fine. I just don't care for it as a steady diet and there are many, many ways to screw it up so the texture and/or taste is ghastly.

Stir frying seems to be phasing out, although I think it will remain an option.

More people are grilling than ever before and the variety of grills is staggering. The prices of the more elaborate ones is amazing.

A friend who had to mount a major campaign to get her husband to spend a thousand dollars for a new kitchen range was flabergasted when he came home one day and announced that he had just plunked down almost four times as much for a barbecue for the patio.

He excused the amount by saying, "It does have a fridge built in."

My friend grumbled "For that amount it ought to come with a chef!"

[bleudauvergne]

Back OnT: To me, almost any word used in wine tasting is cliched.

I guess I can accept that.

The sommelier brought out an exquisite 2001 Domain de Tours vin de pays de Vaucluse and poured us each a generous glass. The nose on this wine was spectacular. Flowers bloomed just before we fell into a vast open space and we were buoyantly caught in a lingering net which evolved slowly, starting in a reverie of caramel de beurre salé that eventually ended in emotions I hadn’t felt in ages, a certain adolescent shame, even. (really.)

[mongo_jones]

was it a wine so saucy that you had to slap the sommelier?

[mags]

oh, i thought you were incredulous about the possibility of my being allowed to have students.

the "pig drop" thing was a typo (she meant "pin"), but it is the kind of unexpected poetry that only comes our way due to the way technology has changed our approach to spell-checking (this is really a late 20th century phenomenon); another favorite: a student once referred to "the body pubic".

i like "so quiet you could hear a pig drop" a lot. very evocative--a pig dropping from a height might make a lot of noise (imagine the squealing on the way down, the dull, meaty thud as it makes contact); on the other hand a pig keeling over from sunstroke or exhaustion might make not very much sound.

so, anyone have any experience in dropping pigs?

No experience with dropping pigs, but a fair amount -- courtesy of years as a copy editor -- with lovely typos. My all-time favorite was in the manuscript of a biography of Oliver Cromwell, who -- according to the writer -- thought "the peasants should manifest their will by ballet."

I had this wonderful image of stumpy grubby, Breughel-style peasants pirouetting around trilling "No taxation without representation" or "We demand an end to the tradition of imprisoning debtors."

Er....the writer meant BALLOT.

[ElfWorks]

i think that both classics and cliche's start out as a fad. the mago salsa is clearly a fad that i think is destined to become a classic, it does work, afterall.

jello salads with canned fruit cocktail floating in it is cliche. aspic is a classic. both started as fads.

just my newbie opinion....

xo

[mongo_jones]

When I get home, I whup together a marinade for the fish: crushed garlic, spot of soy sauce, spot of fish sauce, lime juice and a lot of OO. And then I do the unthinkable. I make a :swallow hard: salsa of mango, apple, onion, garlic, cilantro, lime juice and fish sauce. And I grill the salmon until the flesh is cooked ideally and the skin is charred and crunchy and I sauté up that zucchini with the too-much garlic (and skip the salad because now it's 8 o'clock and we're all damned near starving).

not to suggest a new way to cling to your cliche but have you tried this variation?

take halibut fillets, douse them with that salsa and cook en papillote or en aluminum-foilote till done, or alternatively bake them.

[balmagowry]

Why is there even a need to call something fad, cliche or classic?

Why, for the fun of it, of course. If you don't approve of the idea, there's no need to join in. But please don't scold the rest of us for being easily-amused by word-play. We're entitled to be a little silly if we want.

[clothier]

Why is there even a need to call something fad, cliche or classic?

Why, for the fun of it, of course. If you don't approve of the idea, there's no need to join in. But please don't scold the rest of us for being easily-amused by word-play. We're entitled to be a little silly if we want.

good point.

this site could use a little bit more fun.

[balmagowry]

No experience with dropping pigs, but a fair amount -- courtesy of years as a copy editor -- with lovely typos.  My all-time favorite was in the manuscript of a biography of Oliver Cromwell, who -- according to the writer -- thought "the peasants should manifest their will by ballet." 

I had this wonderful image of stumpy grubby, Breughel-style peasants pirouetting around trilling "No taxation without representation" or "We demand an end to the tradition of imprisoning debtors."

Oh, how lovely! And Mongo is right - both decidedly qualify, in their unwitting way, as poetic.

I used to have quite a repertoire of similar ones, but for some reason they've gone clean out of my head. Or maybe that's... me.

BTW mongo - halibut is one of those things that I have trouble eating any other way than plain, poached (though accompanied by spinach and hollandaise, to be sure). I keep thinking I'm going to try this or that adventurous preparation... but when I get right down to it I just can't bring myself to do it. YMMV, of course, everyone's may, but this for me is one of the things I simply can't mess with....

(Hmmmm. Idea for a thread.)

[NulloModo]

Hehe, well, if it is all sillyness I absolutely have no problem with it.

For a moment perhaps I missed the tone in the typing and thought some here actually felt some dishes weren't worth having just because they were 'old hat' or a bit too commonly seen on menus.

[sequim]

For a moment perhaps I missed the tone in the typing and thought some here actually felt some dishes weren't worth having just because they were 'old hat' or a bit too commonly seen on menus.

Yes, not worth having for awhile as one can be sick of them!

In Seattle, ahi tuna and the aforementioned garlic mashed spuds.

[fifi]

DATELINE... Chicago, May, 2204

Stardust Trotter has recently revived some real classics in her new restaurant. The famous chef, and the youngest in a long line from the restaurant dynasty, has researched ancient databases and has found some of the true classics to serve. She says of an odd salsa made with mangoes... "salsa is the perfect counterpoint to the salmon, all tart and bright and fruity to the fatty rich crispy smoky fish."

I think it may have to hang around a while to become a classic. Mango salsa may have that kind of legs.

[GG Mora]

For all of you that are over garlic mashed potatoes (but they are SOOO good), try saffron mashed potatoes. Or horseradish mashed potatoes (but only with freshly grated). Weee-o, baby.

[GG Mora]

I think it may have to hang around a while to become a classic. Mango salsa may have that kind of legs.

Hm. Maybe a classic has to start as a fad and then do hard time as a cliché to prove itself before being anointed as a classic. And it's entirely possible that mango salsa is headed in that direction.

But a lot depends on what it's served with. Some "chefs" will smack a gob of MS on anything to try and seem au courant. At a restaurant here in SoVT, one that gets WAY too much adulation, the chef had the nerve to do the following appetizer (and I don't even know where to begin deconstructing its misguidedness, but the mango salsa would be a good start): Potato pancake topped with a crabcake topped with a slice of seared foie gras topped with mango salsa. Someone shoot me. That's neither fad nor cliché. It's a culinary abomination.

[mongo_jones]

DATELINE... Chicago, May, 2204

Stardust Trotter has recently revived some real classics in her new restaurant.

i hope naming one's children "stardust" is a fad or cliche that won't last. reminds me of grace slick, who named one of her children god (but with a small "g" because "we have to be humble")

[andiesenji]

For all of you that are over garlic mashed potatoes (but they are SOOO good), try saffron mashed potatoes. Or horseradish mashed potatoes (but only with freshly grated). Weee-o, baby.

I still make mashed potatoes the way our cook did when I was a child in the 40s.

Add finely chopped green onions and chopped egg yolks and mash with cream and a little of the potato water.

I always make large batches because the potato cakes baked on a griddle the next morning for breakfast or brunch are even better.........

[andiesenji]

Potato pancake topped with a crabcake topped with a slice of seared foie gras topped with mango salsa. Someone shoot me. That's neither fad nor cliché. It's a culinary abomination.

I agree.

I can't imagine adulterating seared fois gras with anything with such a strong flavor.

I occasionally poach fois gras in white wine and serve the slices on a very thin slice of an artisan bread. I have occasionally served it on a bet of finely shredded deep fried potato for a bit of texture. (This reminds me that I have to soon make a pilgramage to Surfas to stock up on a few things unavailable near me.)

[bleudauvergne]

was it a wine so saucy that you had to slap the sommelier?

It was so saucy I began mumbling clichés. Then my husband slapped the sommelier with a juicy tip.

Edited May 6, 2004 by bleudauvergne (log)

[Verjuice]

good cliches:

figs--prosciutto--gorgonzola--buffalo mozzarella--melon...

play mix and match with the above and serve with prosecco.

margaritas made with alternative citrus fruits. key limes, blood oranges, grapefruit etc.

tuna sashimi, seared tuna, tuna carpaccio.

caprese salads.

bad cliches:

margaritas made with alternative fruits that are non-citrus; prickly pear, strawberry, mango etc.

portobella mushroom/roasted red pepper dishes and/or many-sheets-of-layered-vegetables as the token vegetarian entrees on restaurant menus. i'm not even vegetarian; i'm just tired of reading them.

also: enough with the flourless chocolate cake with raspberry coulis.

and "blackened cajun" fill-in-in-the-meat as a salad add on. particularly when tuna is the meat in question.

speaking of salads, enough with the bread bowls and the taco shells, the mandarin oranges and other supposedly innovative twists such as fruit vinaigrettes.

chipotle? yeah it's great sometimes. let's move on.

the worst, however, is cookie dough.

[Mabelline]

Mango salsa is great when you use starfruit!