THE BEST: NYC Butcher

[Wilfrid]

SORRY SORRY SORRY.  How did I type 3rd.  383 2nd Avenue between 22nd and 23rd, telephone 725 4165, and it's Arnaud Carre, not Armand.  What sloppiness

Sandra, if you are talking about the aged French rack of venison, yes it's expensive, but it's like butter.  I have rarely eaten better.  

[TL]

Check out Florence Meat Market down in the Village.

[Daniel]

I have been having problems with the butchers at citarella on the UWS recently... I think these people are more like glorified meat wrappers then real butchers.. Wether i buy a duck or some turkey breasts, depending on who you get, they piss and moan about having to do anything.. One guy last week tried to charge me an extra five bucks to debone a duck.. He eventually refused to do it at all because that was a specialty order.. I also bought natural sausage casings from them and this guy came up with this ridiculous arbitrary price there.. Based on nothing..

I must say the fish department is really good and the people are friendly.. But if you feel like getting anything other then a pre-cut steak or maybe some chopped meat, those lazy bastards at the meat department will most likely not do it.. This is not to say all of them, but i can say it for three of them for sure..

edit to add: the fish department is really good, except i cant believe they have crawfish at 9.99 a pound..

Edited June 6, 2005 by Daniel (log)

[emsny]

We shouldn't forget the Greenmarket(s) - not for beef, that's for sure, but certainly for pork (Flying Pigs Farm and Paul what's-his-name) and lamb (3-Corners Field Farm).

[marlena spieler]

THE FRENCH BUTCHER

The most horrible experience I have ever had shopping for food.

My daughter the doctor was in the mood for steak, so we had seen the French Butcher and decided that would be the best place to shop for the meat.

The butcher (French, middle aged, the owenr--I asked) was the meanest, nastiest, really horrid insulting man I"ve ever met. My daughter and I had trotted over happy as a clam, ready to spend some money on a really nice cut of meat, and we ended up with a bitter taste in our mouth.

I can't even tell you if the steak tasted good or not, because we felt like we had eaten something horrible.

I will say this, though: if the meat had been extraordinary I would have noticed. I think it was okay.

One of her collaegues (the building is peopled with staff from the hospital) also went there for a meaty treat, and came back saying: what a mean mean man!

but then a few months ago i went there (no place else open, i thought the quality of the meat would have to be higher than a supermarket) and the butcher wasn't there, his assistant, or salesman was. A young guy. very nice. didn't know much about meat, or wasn't sharing his knowledge with us if he did, but at least he didn't insult us or throw anything, so we were happy. again: fine meat, okay meat, nothing special.

but that butcher was sooooooo mean! MEAN! memorably meat! as witness this posting.

i've been waiting to share this for while, the opportunity never came up.

i don't think you can sell even the finest of anything with a bad attitude. I'll always go to the farmers market for meat, now. or Les Halles.......

Marlena.

[slkinsey]

We really like Oppenheimer Prime Meats on Broadway just about 96th.

They are an old fashioned, full service butcher. Nothing is pre-cut. If you want a porterhouse, they bring out a whole shortloin of prime porterhouse, discuss how you are going to cook it, and cut the steaks to order.

The last time I was there, they turned this:

Into this:

They are my go-to guys for custom cut high quality meat. Their pork chops are something special too.

[Daniel]

hey thanks.. I would love to not have to give citarella my business.. Thats what i will continue to love about this city.. If someone is screwing you or not treating you correctly, you dont have to put up with it. Many other fish in the C. Good bye citarella, hello oppenheimer.

edit to add..That is if you could tell me a suitable fish market in the area too

Edited June 6, 2005 by Daniel (log)

[juuceman]

THE FRENCH BUTCHER

The most horrible experience I have ever had shopping for food.

i don't think you can sell even the finest of anything with a bad attitude.  I'll always go to the farmers market for meat, now. or Les Halles.......

Marlena.

←

the French Butcher closed up shop a year or two ago.. the shop was taken over by someone else, I believe it's currently called Grammercy Prime Meats, or something along those lines.. the meat is still pretty good quality- definitely better than the supermarket, and i've never had anything but great service there- they happily deboned and rolled a leg of lamb for me- was great..

good luck getting beef at the Green Market.. you're much better off going to Florent if you're going to travel at all..

[JosephB]

I have been having problems with the butchers at citarella on the UWS recently... I think these people are more like glorified meat wrappers then real butchers..   Wether i buy a duck or some turkey breasts, depending on who you get, they piss and moan about having to do anything.. One guy last week tried to charge me an extra five bucks to debone a duck.. He eventually refused to do it at all because that was a specialty order..   I also bought natural sausage casings from them and this guy came up with this ridiculous arbitrary price there.. Based on nothing..

I must say the fish department is really good and the people are friendly.. But if you feel like getting anything other then a pre-cut steak or maybe some chopped meat, those lazy bastards at the meat department will most likely not do it..  This is not to say all of them, but i can say it for three of them for sure..

edit to add: the fish department is really good, except i cant believe they have crawfish at 9.99 a pound..

←

I have found that it's the meat guys at the UWS Citerella who know their trade well, while the fish guys are mostly order takers. I agree that the meat guys don't welcome orders that they can't fill straight from the stuff on display.

Though I'm not sure at what point a butchering request requires a special advance order (the extra charge is bogus). Boning one whole duck probably takes some time, but doesn't seem like an unreasonable on-the-spot request. I do think, however, that you may get some grief from any butcher if you make such a request when the shop is busy, and you're not a really good customer. So I suggest you establish a good relationship with your butcher, which has to be a lot easier to do at a small shop like Otomanelli's.

As for fish, there's no substitute on the UWS for Citarella, which generally has excellent quality.

Edited June 6, 2005 by JosephB (log)

[afn33282]

Check out Florence Meat Market down in the Village.

←

Mitchell Davis, in The Art of Eating (the best food mag around, bar none, imho) No. 68 "Why, Where, and What to Eat in New York, Part II, Food Shopping" says the following:

He buys his meat only from Florence Meat Market. Been in operation for 70+ years. Little meat on display; butcher carries out primal cut, discusses it, and cuts desired cut. Will grind, pound, tie, etc. "The porterhouse steaks are the only ones I've found at retail with the true dry-aged flavor of steakhouse beef." Has stewing hens. Will make custom ground-meat blends for perrines, sausages, etc. Will lard, stuff, and season roasts. (!) Best to call order in in advance; the shop is small and the staff spends much time on each order. And: "The surprise is that the meat at Florence is usually less expensive than at other serious butcher shops around the city." Note: writer was a part-time butcher in high school.

Also mentions: Citarella for various aged meats. Jefferson Market (6th Ave. b/w 10th and 11th)--staff are "friendly and talented." Whole Foods, 7th Ave. and 24th St. and in the Time Warner building at Columbus Circle, have best choice in organically raised meat, but staff is not knowledgable. Salumeria Biellesse 376-378 8th Ave at 29th St., Chelsea (212.736.7376) has excellent fresh, cured, and dried sausages. The only local source for guanciale (pork jowl), which is cured in-house. And they make custom sausage blends for many Manhattan restaurants. Faico's Pork Store at 260 Bleeker b/w 6th and 7th Aves. (212.243.1974) for "Italian-style fresh and cured sausages..cold cuts..and various cuts of fresh pork." In Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, the Bari Pork Store at 158 Ave. U at W. 7th St. (718,372,6405) calls itself "the king of sausage". Kurowycky Meat Products at 124 First Ave. b/w 7th St. and St. Mark's Place, East Village, for Ukranian cold cuts and cured/smoked pork products, made in-house, in "what you might call a commercial style", but the quality of such is tops in the city. Try the kovbasa krayana (garlic kielbasa-ish) and the Hungarian-style paprika sausage. Concludes by saying the only place for pork belly or fresh pork liver is Chinatown.

The moral? Subscribe to The Art of Eating. 39$ a year, issued quarterly.

Best,

Chris

Edited June 6, 2005 by afn33282 (log)

[Daniel]

I have found that it's the meat guys at the UWS Citerella who know their trade well, while the fish guys are mostly order takers.  I agree that the meat guys don't welcome orders that they can't fill straight from the stuff on display.

Yeh, i have never asked the fish guys for cooking suggestions there, but i know they will clean and gut any fish.. And really thats all i need from a butcher. I have no time for a movie star meat wrapper.

By the way I went to Openheimer this evening.. I wanted to check it out.. The place looks pretty good.. The fish department was lacking however.. But had some essentials.. Shrimp, scallop,squid. And then had talapia, soft shell crab, and a couple of other fish.. But the meat will certainly do...

I was going to buy a hanger steak when the prix fix at aloutte down the street was calling me.. 22 bucks for a hanger steak with fries, an escargot appetizer and a dessert.. Who could argue with that..

[marlena spieler]

the French Butcher closed up shop a year or two ago..  the shop was taken over by someone else, I believe it's currently called Grammercy Prime Meats, or something along those lines..  the meat is still pretty good quality- definitely better than the supermarket, and i've never had anything but great service there- they happily deboned and rolled a leg of lamb for me- was great..

good luck getting beef at the Green Market..  you're much better off going to Florent if you're going to travel at all.

Thanks, Juuceman!

Perhaps I'll try the new happy-service butcher, along with the green market and florent....

marlena.

[slkinsey]

By the way I went to Openheimer this evening.. I wanted to check it out.. The place looks pretty good.. The fish department was lacking however...

Yea, I don't recommend them for fish unless you live in the 'hood and don't want to go to Citarella (of course, if you're really serious about fish, you'll go to Sea Breeze on 9th Avenue). Their fish is from Wild Edibles, and good quality. But it's more or less an add-on. Meat is the reason to go to Oppenheimer.

Honestly, I'm not sure I approve of the whole "butcher/fishmonger combination" thing. I'd rather have a good butcher and a good fishmonger separately. The considerations, skills, suppliers and connections for these two different types of purveyor are very different.

[ned]

Ottomanelli's may not always have the absolute best of the best like Lobel's is said to. . . but I have found myself a loyal customer there for five years now. Their prices are good, the brothers know all a guy would need to know about meat, they have lots of seasonal specialties, foie gras prices are significantly less than elsewhere in the city and they carry "b" as well as "a" lobes. I recently ordered a suckling pig through them. They got it fast, they got a nice small one and it--not that I didn't have a little something to do with it--was fabulous. They sell aged shell and rib steaks. They are also selling that wonderful (sorry if the spelling is wrong) kurabota pig. If one is in the neighborhood (seventh avenue and Bleeker, just around the corner from Florence actually) and needs a butcher, they're worth a try.

A note on Florence: their shop is tiny and their selection is not so broad. I don't quibble with the claims about quality.

Edited June 12, 2005 by ned (log)

[paulraphael]

Admin: threads merged.

I used to buy prime, dry aged beef at Balducci's, but they're gone now. The restaurant chain that took them over runs things very differently.

Since then I've gone to Jefferson Market, where the quality isn't quite as high (and the price isn't either).

I'm not that impressed with Citarella or Dean and DeLucca (seem overpriced for the quality). One day when I rob a bank I'll try Lobel's, but I'll never be making a regular habit of that place.

I'm wondering what other places people like. Preferably in a downtown neighborhood. Thoughts?

[adrman]

Florence Meat Market and Ottomanelli's are both excellent.

[pups224]

Ditto.

I finally sprang for two NY strips for a holiday treat from Lobels (almost 100 bucks). Not worth it. No where near the quality of Peter Luger.

Skip Fairways as well. Looks good, tastes bland.

I once and only once lucked out on a wonderful dry aged poterhouse from Food Emporium on sale.

Good luck and report back.

[woofy]

I've struggled for a while too with the places you mentioned and then went to ottomanellis and was very impressed, I got a killer piece of berkshire pork. With the skin on too, so good. There beef looked great too. Very reasonably priced.

[paulraphael]

Cool, thanks. I'll check these guys out.

Couldn't find a website for Florence ... anyone know if they have one?

[slkinsey]

Per my post <a href=http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=4059&view=findpost&p=939190>upthread</a>, I think Oppenheimer Prime Meats strikes a great balance between quality and price. I also love the fact that you're not just pointing at a pre-cut piece of meat under glass. They cut to order.

[tim]

Hi,

Jefferson Market will order in black footed chicken and they carry caul fat.

Tim

[larrylee]

I haven't ordered from Lobel's just given what I've heard about the price. However, I go to Ottomanelli's as often as I can when cooking meat and I've always been happy. Recently they've had aged certified angus beef on sale (ridiculously low $15 a pound) and it was fantastic. Just cooked it up in my cast iron skillet with some kosher salt... heaven on a plate.

I went once asking for bones to make a beef stock and they pulled out an entire leg bone for me.

"Would you like it cut?"

"Ummm, please. My band saw is at the shop."

And it was really cheap, too... just over a buck a pound.

More recently I went back for some oxtail and ended taking an entire oxtail with me. Great guys, but they've been cutting their hours back over the years. No longer open on Sunday and I think they close at 6 PM everyday now.

[raji]

By the way I went to Openheimer this evening.. I wanted to check it out.. The place looks pretty good.. The fish department was lacking however...

Yea, I don't recommend them for fish unless you live in the 'hood and don't want to go to Citarella (of course, if you're really serious about fish, you'll go to Sea Breeze on 9th Avenue). Their fish is from Wild Edibles, and good quality. But it's more or less an add-on. Meat is the reason to go to Oppenheimer.

Honestly, I'm not sure I approve of the whole "butcher/fishmonger combination" thing. I'd rather have a good butcher and a good fishmonger separately. The considerations, skills, suppliers and connections for these two different types of purveyor are very different.

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[mex]Agreeeeed...[/mex]

Do you think See Breeze has been as good since they reconfigured and Central went out of biz? I guess they are best for fillets and whole fish, not necc. shellfish?

I'm also partial to Esposito's as a butcher, but that's probably because I don't buy the fancy schmancy stuff, actually I've aged in my fridge before, works great...

[ned]

More recently I went back for some oxtail and ended taking an entire oxtail with me. Great guys, but they've been cutting their hours back over the years. No longer open on Sunday and I think they close at 6 PM everyday now.

←

I once made the mistake of asking one of the guys if they were open on Sunday--I was kind of in a panic about being able to pick up something or other. The response was unforgettable "Even God took one day off."

[juuceman]

I don't know of any decent butcher that is open on a Sunday. The closest we've come (and it's not that close) is the meat counter at Dean and DeLuca in SoHo.

To answer the question upthread, Florence doesn't have a website. They actually do a decent restaurant trade, which is a bit odd, as described above.