Say that again?

[hjshorter]

Emeril often mangles words.  I love the way he calls Gnocchi..."NOKIA" like the phone.  Can't one of his staff members tell him the correct way to say it?

Yeah, that and GOLLIC.

Why is that so strange? Many, many people from Massachusetts - at least the Eastern half - say it that way, including most of my family who live there. The first time my mother (born in Boston, raised in Hopkinton) heard him speak she turned to me and said "He must be from the New Bedford area."

I mispronounced many, many words as a kid, because I was reading them long before I ever heard them spoken. My first attempt to pronounce "homogenized" at age 5 was a source of hilarity for my parents for years.

[Pan]

Funny, I can't remember ever seeing the "du jur" misspelling.

Jonathan, I don't say "bay-zil," but I don't know how to represent my pronunciation. OK, I think this from www.m-w.com (an American dictionary, of course, so take that as a disclaimer on the "as in"s) will help:

\&\ as a and u in  abut

  \&\ as e in kitten [This one is actually a superscript, though it doesn't seem like it's showing up that way here.]

  \&r\as ur/er in further

  \a\ as a in ash

  \A\ as a in ace

  \ä\ as o in mop

Main Entry: ba·sil

Pronunciation: 'ba-z&l, 'bA-, -s&l

OK, my pronunciation is 'ba-z&l, but using the "\&\ as e in kitten," not "\&\ as a and u in abut" (the one given in the dictionary entry). "\&\ as a and u in abut" is a little mystifying to me because I don't pronounce the "a" and "u" in "abut" the same way at all.

So that probably clarified nothing...

[balmagowry]

Emeril often mangles words.  I love the way he calls Gnocchi..."NOKIA" like the phone.  Can't one of his staff members tell him the correct way to say it?

Yeah, that and GOLLIC.

Why is that so strange? Many, many people from Massachusetts - at least the Eastern half - say it that way, including most of my family who live there. The first time my mother (born in Boston, raised in Hopkinton) heard him speak she turned to me and said "He must be from the New Bedford area."

On de Looer Ist Site also ve vould mebbe seh sometink like det gollic.

Who could forget the 2000-Year-Old Man explaining the secret of his longevity?

You know de scientific way how you die, right? De scientific way how you die is de Angel of Det comes to give you de Kiss of Det. So before I'll go to bed I'll eat myself a nize pond-enna-hef of gollic; den I'll snuggle up under my crazy qvilt and go to sleep. Den de Angel of Det he comes in and he says, "Hokay, Murray, dis is it" and I say "HHHHHhhhallo, whhhhhhho's dere?" and he says "Pfui!" - he's not gonna kiss ME 'cause I'm all fulla gollic!

Edited April 3, 2004 by balmagowry (log)

[Pumpkin Lover]

  My personal fave:  TAMPON-nade. 

That is SO AWESOME

[Bux]

Funny, I can't remember ever seeing the "du jur" misspelling.

Assuming you're not saying you haven't seen "du jur" misspelled, it must be that you've eaten in classier joints than I have over your lifetime.

Thousand Islands Inn.(Clayton-1000 Islands, NY)

Your Early Bird dinner at the Inn includes:

Hot home baked bread and butter

Your choice of either

A cup of our homemade soup du jur Or Tossed salad with your choice of dressing

(If you prefer both soup & salad please add $1.00)

Your choice of potato and vegetable du jur

The Britannia Country Inn. A Taste of England in the Heart of the Poconos. (Swiftwater, PA)

A Light Supper

Soup du Jur, salad and any appetizer $9.95

Twin Oaks Restaurant. (Sterling, MA)

Side of Vegetable Du Jur 1.25

Clancy's. Alamosa, CO

A la Carte

VEGETABLE DU JUR   $1.50

In fairness to them, that could be a typo since their nachos reads:

"Corn toµ¾%?äÚ¶'µ`39ï?ü?¶sn®›=× *èŽùo meat, and lots of cheese. Granished [sic] with onion, tomato and black olives."

Cafe Michel. Smyrna GA

Spicy Sautéed Vegetables over imported Pasta Du Jur and a garlic butter sauce

And with the official stamp of academia, I offer this lesson from the Northern Arizona University web page for HA 100 Introduction to the Hospitality Industry

Types of Menu:

Static - does not change

Cyclical - change on regular basis, generally repeat every four to six weeks.

Table d’hôte - menu includes all the courses and accompaniments of the meal at one price.

A la Carte - menu that charges for each item separately.

Du Jur - menu that changes on daily basis.

I guess that makes it official. "De Jur" is ready for the dictionaries. Are the dictionaries ready? I was actually surprised to find as many entries as I did (and maybe twice as many as I listed) on the web, and let's face it most diners offering soup du jur don't have a web site. My apologies to those I've omitted.

[Bux]

I'm surprised mescaline salad didn't make the first page.

[balmagowry]

  Du Jur - menu that changes on daily basis.

 

I guess that makes it official. "De Jur" is ready for the dictionaries. Are the dictionaries ready? I was actually surprised to find as many entries as I did (and maybe twice as many as I listed) on the web, and let's face it most diners offering soup du jur don't have a web site. My apologies to those I've omitted.

Official - yeah, I guess so - but would that be De Jur' or De Fact'?.

Meanwhile, I want the hot home-baked butter, please!

[Bux]

   Du Jur - menu that changes on daily basis.

  

I guess that makes it official. "De Jur" is ready for the dictionaries. Are the dictionaries ready? I was actually surprised to find as many entries as I did (and maybe twice as many as I listed) on the web, and let's face it most diners offering soup du jur don't have a web site. My apologies to those I've omitted.

Official - yeah, I guess so - but would that be De Jur' or De Fact'?.

Meanwhile, I want the hot home-baked butter, please!

Just de fact o'life. I'm sorry but that reminded me of o'gratin.

[therese]

Recently sent out for coffee for myself and some colleagues, one of whom had asked for cafe au lait. The barrista obligingly indicated this item by writing "olay" on the side of the cup.

A server passing hors d'oeuvres at a cocktail reception about a month ago asked me if I'd care for a "crab mussolini". I was (for once) struck dumb.

[cjs]

I will always hate the french for having a different word for almost everything!!! haha

but truley, I had such a struggle when I was in cooking school, and during my apprenticeship, because my mouth refused to fit around those sounds!!

Can't tell you how many times I stood like an idiot infront of an instructor, until I could finally choke out what it was I needed.

[cjs]

I don't think it's so much makin' fun of pronounciations, per se, because a whole lot of us here have parents or grandparents who could not pronounce American English well...I'm thinkin' it's mostly getting to vent about the better-bred-than-thou who actually can't even read well. It's not mean, really.

I could tell you about my uncle who could not read real well and came up to the YIELD signs on onramps, and would roll the window down and holler at the cars he was comin' up on.

[mongo_jones]

i like to roll my window down when i come to "yield" signs and holler "I YIELD TO NO ONE!!!"... and then i yield to the oncoming traffic.

[Eric_Malson]

"Basil" is never pronounced "bay-sil".

Oooh, now you're getting beyond pronunciation and into pet peeves. I wasn't going to raise this because it ALWAYS leads to tears before bedtime, but now I have to ask. WHY would anyone pronounce it "bay-sil"? What possible reason could there be? What precedent, what justification, what ... what? It simply baffles me. When I ask this question of anyone who so pronounces it, the reply is always something like "because that's how it's pronounced' - which, aside from being untrue, simply begs the question:

WHY?

Why, you ask? Because it's a perfectly acceptable pronunciation, that's why.

A couple of posts later, Pan quotes the Merriam-Webster online dictionary's pronunciation, which I was going to quote....what Pan doesn't state, but is clear in the entry, is that there are two correct ways of pronouncing the "a": both the "long" (ay) and the "short" (a as in ash). Hence your assertion of "untrue" is incorrect. You should check a dictionary before getting so worked up!

This seems like a good place to quote an old music school joke....

"You say Car-MEE-na and I say Car-MY-na....

You say Bu-RAY-na and I say Bu-RAH-na...

Car-meena, Car-myna

Bu-rayna, Bu-rahna

Let's call the whole thing Orff!"

Or, heard in a musical theater audition:

"You say to-MAY-to and I say to-MAY-to...."

[Mudpuppie]

I was going to refrain, but now I feel compelled to cite a precedent for BAY-zil:

Basal.

[balmagowry]

"Basil" is never pronounced "bay-sil".

When I ask this question of anyone who so pronounces it, the reply is always something like "because that's how it's pronounced' - which, aside from being untrue, simply begs the question:

WHY?

Why, you ask? Because it's a perfectly acceptable pronunciation, that's why.

See? Begging the question.

"You say Car-MEE-na and I say Car-MY-na....

You say Bu-RAY-na and I say Bu-RAH-na...

Car-meena, Car-myna

Bu-rayna, Bu-rahna

Let's call the whole thing Orff!"

No, no, no, it's "Let's Carl the whole thing Orff!"

EDIT to add:

Hence your assertion of "untrue" is incorrect. You should check a dictionary before getting so worked up!

I did: the OED. Merriam-Webster is notoriously unreliable.

And I still haven't seen any reason for pronouncing it like a carcinoma. You wouldn't say "Bay-sil Rathbone," would you?

Edited April 4, 2004 by balmagowry (log)

[devlin]

Well, sure, but the OED is essentially a British dictionary, or anyway was, yeah? Which is not to say it doesn't pertain, but only that some of the pronunciations may be more essentially British. I use the OED all the time, by the way.

The American Heritage Dictionary is considered a pretty reputable thing, probably one of the most recommended dictionaries by college English teachers, even for their graduate students, and it includes both the long and short a for "basil." I'm thinking the difference is simply one of dialect. "Schedule," for example. Americans say "skedule." Brits say "shedule." I don't think I've ever heard an American pronounce "basil" with a short a, unless it's the actor or one's cat.

[editing because I'm too tired to do anything right the first time]

Edited April 4, 2004 by devlin (log)

[balmagowry]

I don't think I've ever heard an American pronounce "basil" with a short a, unless it's the actor or one's cat.

Funny you should say that - I did have a cat by that name.

But that's the point. The actor, the cat, the herb, the hotel-keeper, and Dorian Grey's stooge are all spelled the same way. So how would it come about that one of them, and only one, would be pronounced differently? I know a lot of people DO pronounce it differently, and I don't expect to convert them (though I guarantee you I am not the only dissenting American!), but I really and truly want to know WHY. Not why the people who learned it that way pronounce it that way; but why it ever came to be pronounced that way in the first place - THAT is what makes no sense to me. It certainly didn't start out that way.

[devlin]

I had a cat once named Basil too.

It's sure I'm not able to answer your question. Can we answer the "skedule" (or "skejool") versus "shedule" (or "shedyool") mystery? Surely the American pronunciation makes more sense, no? Which is the righter of the two? Who got it wrong and where? Somebody probably has a theory somewhere.

[bleudauvergne]

My niece Amy, at the age of three, was constantly in tow with her grandmother and great aunt, sisters by the name of Sadie and Ethel, originally from Manhattan. They ate in restaurants at least twice daily. They worshipped the ground my niece walked on, took her into their arms and into their world whenever possible, and wanted her to have the best of everything. Forget kiddie menus.

I used to babysit her a whole lot. So one day I asked her what she wanted for dinner. "Flaming Yawn" was the only thing she'd have. I was about 13 years old and could not figure out what she was talking about. Flaming Yawn! Flaming Yawn! She trumpeted.

She was on the verge of tears until I finally convinced her that french toast would be an adequete replacement. When I told the story to her mother, she told me that it was the most expensive cut of beef on the menu.

[cakewench]

well, gosh, if we want to be really pedantic, 'begs the question' doesn't technically mean what it is being used for in this thread. I mean, it has evolved into this use, but only in the past 50-100 years. It actually means just the opposite of this use.

But hey, I wouldn't want to step on someone's use of a word. or phrase. or whatever. But if we're breaking out the OED, let's just be completely correct here, and accept no differing opinions!

(okay, sorry, I couldn't help myself. Why all the fuss over an herb?)

bleu, excellent story. I had to read it aloud to understand what the heck you were trying to say.

[tommy]

(okay, sorry, I couldn't help myself.  Why all the fuss over an herb?)

and is it herb, or erb.

on a different note, what i find more entertaining than people not knowing how to pronounce or spell a word is when people are so sure someone's wrong and they're right, and it turns out to be completely the opposite. now *that's* funny.

Edited April 4, 2004 by tommy (log)

[bleudauvergne]

Yes, and how should I be pronouncing "cumin"?

[maggiethecat]

"You say to-MAY-to and I say to-MAY-to...."

That's funny! And bleu, "Flaming Yawn" has now entered my personal lexicon --great story!

(Um, soft a.)

[Pickles]

Yes, and how should I be pronouncing "cumin"?

Cue-min. But somebody's gonna insist it's "Come In!"

[nessa]

and is it herb, or erb.

How about oib.

I'm an erb, bay-zil, kyumin kinda gal. I'v also heard cooomin and of course, down here in Texas, comino.

I don't think its always about "right" pronunciation, but about what your ears are used to hearing. Hearing it differently can throw you for a loop.

Flaming yawn. I LOVE it!