Pâte de Fruits (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies) (Part 1)

[Kerry Beal]

Pate de fruits with this type of pectin require sugar and acid to set or am I wrong? If you would leave the tartaric out, is what I read, it would not set.

I use apple pectin rather than citrus - but some pectins do come premixed with acid. Can't tell from their description.

[RichardJones]

Pate de fruits with this type of pectin require sugar and acid to set or am I wrong? If you would leave the tartaric out, is what I read, it would not set.

The first time we made pates de fruits at college I was working with a partner which is always conducive to errors. Between us we managed to leave out the Tartaric Acid which we only realized once the jelly was sitting happily in its frame. Neither of us dared to tell chef.

To our great mutual relief the slab did set up all right and guitared fine. The texture might otherwise have been firmer but we still gelled!

I wouldn't rely on this though...

R

[chocoera]

hey all, i have seen people with (and tasted) some mighty fine pate de fruit. i've tried my hand at it once, and failed...horribly. not just failed, but wow, you really really suck, kind of failed. so i've been much to scared to try again. but after eating yet another piece of wonderful pate i thought "hey, its been 3 yrs since i tried, maybe i should get back on the pate pony"

does anyone have a tried and true recipe for pate de fruit or any tips, techniques, tutorials?

the purees i have in the freezer now are: pear, mango, passion fruit, raspberry and lemon, though i could get my hands on strawberry in a jiffy if needed.

any words of inspiration? really feeling adventurous and thought you guys would be the perfect ones to to explore the world of pate de fruit with

*and yes, i can upload pics of a future failure, or success, if you'd like...if i get ballsy enough to do it*

[gap]

Hi,

I find the Boiron recipes used with Boiron purees to provide excellent results. When making the PDFs, I also use these tips (apologies if they are basic/obvious for you)

- have everything to hand before you start - it's hard to find things when the mixture is boiling and needs whisking

- whisk constantly

- mix the pectin with sugar to stop it clumping

- bring the puree to a boil before adding other ingredients

- add the main bulk of sugar/glucose in small increments and try and keep the mixture boiling while adding

- I aim to cook to a temperature (I don't have the equipment to test brix) but always test on a cold plate for consistency

My first effort was a miserable jam, but it all came together pretty quickly after that

[Kerry Beal]

I'm with Gap - the Boiron recipes are the best - even if you use your own purees. I have a refractometer - but find if you have a reliable thermometer - that taking it to 107C is really all you need to do.

[chocoera]

those sound great! and no, they are not obvious tips to me are those boiron recipes on their web site?

[Kerry Beal]

The new Boiron recipes are on the web - but they use juice and aren't as good as the old ones IMHO.

I have the old ones on a PDF file (a PDF for PDF's lol) that I can't upload to eG (believe me I've tried) but I can send them to your email address if you send it to me via PM.

[lebowits]

The new Boiron recipes are on the web - but they use juice and aren't as good as the old ones IMHO.

I have the old ones on a PDF file (a PDF for PDF's lol) that I can't upload to eG (believe me I've tried) but I can send them to your email address if you send it to me via PM.

Kerry - You can ask an eG moderator to post the PDF file for you. I asked Chris Hennes to do this for me after the chocolate workshop earlier this year.

Another little tip that is VERY important. When adding the acid, make sure that if you are using cyrstallized acid that you make a 1:1 solution and measure out the solution and NOT the dry crystals!

[Kerry Beal]

The new Boiron recipes are on the web - but they use juice and aren't as good as the old ones IMHO.

I have the old ones on a PDF file (a PDF for PDF's lol) that I can't upload to eG (believe me I've tried) but I can send them to your email address if you send it to me via PM.

Kerry - You can ask an eG moderator to post the PDF file for you. I asked Chris Hennes to do this for me after the chocolate workshop earlier this year.

Another little tip that is VERY important. When adding the acid, make sure that if you are using cyrstallized acid that you make a 1:1 solution and measure out the solution and NOT the dry crystals!

I think we tried that and there was no way to do it.

[chocoera]

huh? acid?

[gap]

Tartaric acid. Buy the "dry powder" from your supermarket and mix with equal parts warm water (by weight) and dissolve. Then use this tartaric acid solution when called for in the Boiron recipes - ie., don't just use the "dry powder" you buy (just to emphasise what lebowits is describing above).

Edited August 20, 2010 by gap (log)

[Kerry Beal]

If you have trouble finding tartaric acid check with a place for making your own wine.

[pastrygirl]

I cannot seem to make pate de fruits without ending up with little scorched bits that make me think of bugs in amber, and am getting tired of it. I am using an induction burner on high (400F), stir constantly, use a heavy bottom pot, do my best to prevent scorching, but they still do. Is my formula off? Once i have added all of the sugar, the temp is about 215F, then it takes quite a while to get up to 225, I'd say at least 10 minutes, maybe more. Lately I've been pouring them out at 222 or 223 to prevent too much scorching and they set up fine - the texture is good and I do not need an extended shelf life as they are consumed within a week.

Here is what I made today, both batches scorched a little, despite my best efforts:

925 g apricot puree (from canned apricots, some body but not thick)

200 g lime juice

150 g sugar + 30 g rapid pectin

1400 g sugar + 200 g glucose syrup

8 g tartaric acid dissolved in 25 g triple sec

Would more or less sugar help? A thinner puree, more like a juice?

???

[RichardJones]

I hate induction plates! I've only used them in Germany and found they burnt everything. I ruined a lot of crème anglaise, too - even on less than half power (and cooking large quantities). I'd never curdled a custard before. In the end I just had to keep the power right down. Do you have the patience to try it with your pates?

[Kerry Beal]

I cannot seem to make pate de fruits without ending up with little scorched bits that make me think of bugs in amber, and am getting tired of it. I am using an induction burner on high (400F), stir constantly, use a heavy bottom pot, do my best to prevent scorching, but they still do. Is my formula off? Once i have added all of the sugar, the temp is about 215F, then it takes quite a while to get up to 225, I'd say at least 10 minutes, maybe more. Lately I've been pouring them out at 222 or 223 to prevent too much scorching and they set up fine - the texture is good and I do not need an extended shelf life as they are consumed within a week.

Here is what I made today, both batches scorched a little, despite my best efforts:

925 g apricot puree (from canned apricots, some body but not thick)

200 g lime juice

150 g sugar + 30 g rapid pectin

1400 g sugar + 200 g glucose syrup

8 g tartaric acid dissolved in 25 g triple sec

Would more or less sugar help? A thinner puree, more like a juice?

???

So using a puree from canned apricots must be fairly sugar rich I'm assuming (they are packed in heavy syrup in my world). When I look at the boiron recipes they use 1000 grams of puree to 750 grams of sugar, 110 grams of sugar with with 25 grams of apple pectin, 200 grams glucose and 15 grams tartaric acid solution. And a bit of booze.

I might try cutting back the sugar and cooking at a lower temperature as Richard suggested.

[chiantiglace]

For all pate de fruit, I think the secret is grabbing one recipe and just practicing over and over until you understand it through and through. Every fruit is going to be different, and the acid is kind of a myth, I have made nearly every kind of fruit pate de fruit in absence of additional acid and they have all come out with perfect texture. If anything the acid can help with flavor sometimes, because pate de fruit is a bit too sweet. Sometimes its good to put a little acid in the coating sugar to help cut the burning sweetness.

For the induction burning issue, I hear ya. Simple answer, reduce your heat a couple of notches. The thing about the heating process through magnetism is, though it will heat evenely over the bottom surface, it definitely generates a large amount of heat directly to that surface, and the thicker the pate de fruit (or anything similar, ie pastry cream, jam, etc) the longer it takes for that direct heat to carry upwards. So stirring is essentialy for induction heating not for conventional reasons, the main reason is to help carry the excess heat upwards. Thats why everytime you stir and induction heated pate de fruit and boils excessively and dangerously. It also helps if the mixture has more width than depth, if the pate de fruit is too deep, it can have disaster written all over it. I use the biggest pot that will fit on it, and if I have to make a lot of pate de fruit I will do it in batches, it will actually take less time to do 3 small batches than 1 big batch.

And another note, temperature really isn't that accurate of a measurement I have noticed, for several reasons. I would get into the practice of using a spoon in ice water. Every half a minute to minute, dip your spoon in and then plunge into ice water, give it some time to properly cool and then feel its texture. It should be slightly softer than what you want because its going to continue cooking after you start pouring into molds and allowing to set, remember that the finished product isn't being plunged into ice, so just barely softer than properly set.

Edited September 30, 2010 by chiantiglace (log)

[pastrygirl]

Thanks for the encouragement, I'll keep trying. The apricots are in fairly light syrup, and the resulting puree does not taste super sweet, but maybe I do need to go back to the Boiron charts and see if I've deviated too far. I am happy with the flavor and texture, just not the burning!

I had decided the induction burner was better than the gas ranges, where the flames go up the sides and scorch the sides, but if I think about it, maybe it does scorch more with induction in the long run. Hmmm.

I thought PDF was supposed to cook as fast as possible which is why I've been cooking on high. I'll try a little lower. I have a very limited pot selection to use on the burner, but I did already come to the conclusion that two small batches are more likely to be successful than one big one. Pate de fruits are a weird animal, I have had a few batches that were just bizarre for no apparent reason, but usually they turn out OK.

[lebowits]

Thanks for the encouragement, I'll keep trying. The apricots are in fairly light syrup, and the resulting puree does not taste super sweet, but maybe I do need to go back to the Boiron charts and see if I've deviated too far. I am happy with the flavor and texture, just not the burning!

I had decided the induction burner was better than the gas ranges, where the flames go up the sides and scorch the sides, but if I think about it, maybe it does scorch more with induction in the long run. Hmmm.

I thought PDF was supposed to cook as fast as possible which is why I've been cooking on high. I'll try a little lower. I have a very limited pot selection to use on the burner, but I did already come to the conclusion that two small batches are more likely to be successful than one big one. Pate de fruits are a weird animal, I have had a few batches that were just bizarre for no apparent reason, but usually they turn out OK.

Commercial purees are generally 10% sugar. I've also believed that the method for PDF is to cook very quickly, add the acid at the last moment before pouring into the frame. I've had good results that way. Lastly, I don't think the induction burner is better or worse. Induction tends to be "faster" than gas (at least on my stove). Just be sure to use a large enough pot!

[prasantrin]

Regarding induction burners, in the baking classes I took, we always had to take the pots on and off the burners repeatedly to help prevent scorching. Luckily Japanese recipes are for small batches, so the pots weren't too large or heavy.

[pastrygirl]

My last two batches were much better. I cooked them at 350f and they didn't seem to take any longer to cook. Also reduced the sugar slightly - I had increased it with the idea that when cooking to a temperature you are cooking to a sugar concentration, so might as well start out with more sugar from the start, but maybe there is more to it than that when pectin is involved? A few dark bits, but not as bad. Even better, it did not splatter so violently, meaning no burns on my forearm. I make two or three batches a week and really do not need any more volcanic jelly burns

[ermintrude]

Regarding induction hobs, if your not used to using them then can be difficult as they can make pans heat up very quickly get the setting wrong and easy to burn or over cook.

Also since they heat the pan not through the base if using heavy thick pans it can heat up quickly but be slower to cool. Heavy iron pots unlike when used on gas are not ideal, go for thinner pans, I have some great pans made by spring that are 5 layer Stainless/Aluminium/Iron/Aluminium/Stainless not cheap but brilliant on an induction hob. As the iron heats up, aluminium diffuses and gives even heat, Stainless for cleaning/looks.

When heating to a high temp avoid a sharp temperature gradient in the pan, i.e. very hot at the bottom, cold at the top then step through the induction power levels, unlike convention hobs that depend on convection that are slower to brings the pan up to temp, induction get's there very quickly, while this not important with water but as things get more viscous and convection in the pans contents reduced this becomes more important. Also if if you don't get the setting correct it's very easy to overshoot especially at the base of the pan, the delay in a conventional hob gives you time to reduce before the gets to high. Stiring helps with the above issues.

Ultimately I do believe that a good induction hob is the best heat source, as it's fast, efficient and clean but it does takes getting used to. I've know chefs/cooks hate mine at first but 2 weeks later they want one. For ultimate flexibility I would go for mixed gas and induction.

[pastrygirl]

I am happy to report that both batches of pate de fruits turned out beautifully today. Cooked at 350F on the induction, no scorching at all, set up nicely after being cooked to about 222F.

Pear-passion fruit pate de fruits

15mm frame

1 kg pear puree

200 g orange juice

150 g passion fruit concentrate

-

150 g sugar

30 g pectin

-

1200 g sugar

225 g glucose

-

7 g tartaric acid

20 g hot water

[tmriga]

I've never made pate de fruit. Please indulge me, and forgive me, as I have some questions that experienced members may feel are mundane -

Has anyone ever tried to make pate de fruit with coconut milk? If not, would it not work, and why?

Would someone please send me the Boiron chart? I had it in my old computer, which died a year ago. My e-mail is playinwithsugar@aol.com

Would someone recommend a reasonably priced guitar, for home use?

And last - what does a refractometer do, and how do you use it?

Thank all of you so much -

Theresa

[Kerry Beal]

I've never made pate de fruit. Please indulge me, and forgive me, as I have some questions that experienced members may feel are mundane -

Has anyone ever tried to make pate de fruit with coconut milk? If not, would it not work, and why?

Would someone please send me the Boiron chart? I had it in my old computer, which died a year ago. My e-mail is playinwithsugar@aol.com

Would someone recommend a reasonably priced guitar, for home use?

And last - what does a refractometer do, and how do you use it?

Thank all of you so much -

Theresa

Don't see why you couldn't make them with coconut milk - give it a try - it's only sugar! Perhaps the fat might be an issue -but only one way to find out.

The Boiron chart is on it's way to you.

No such thing as a reasonably priced guitar - I've played with some cheese cutters with wire that do a reasonable job though.

A refractometer measures the specific gravity of a liquid - essentially tells you how much of the water has boiled off. There are some reasonably priced ones on e-bay but for home purposes a reliable thermometer will probably be all you need. To use it you put a drop of the liquid on the glass surface, put the lid down on it and hold it up to a light. Looking through the lens you will see a line form - you watch for the line to fall at the number you need.

[tmriga]

Thank you, Kerry.

Please indulge me again. I just read through the chart you sent, and it mentions Brix. What does brix mean?

Theresa