Making Dim Sum at Home

[jschyun]

I am looking for a recipe for custard buns, those white steamed buns with bright yellow egg custard in the middle. I haven't seen any recipes for this anywhere, not even Wei Chuan. Can anyone help?

Also, what kind of flour do you use for your bao recipes? I like my bao dough to turn out unnaturally white and very fluffy just like at Koi Palace in San Francisco. But I think it's my flour or something that is not letting do that. Help!

Also, does anyone know of a really good recipe for shanghai "juicy" dumplings?

Soup dumplings?

custard tarts?

Thanks in advance.

[browniebaker]

Ah, the elusive bao dough that steams up fluffy white. There's a recipe in Wei-Chuan Publishing's Chinese Dim Sum cookbook that is on my list of recipes to try. It calls for cake flour and ammonium bicarbonate. I understand that ammonium bicarbonate is no longer widely sold or used for cooking; perhaps baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) could be substituted? If you try this recipe (or any other contenders for fluffy-and-white), would you please post and let the procrastinators among us know your results?

As for steamed buns with egg-custard filling, is there any reason one can't take a recipe for an egg-custard filling (see Wei-Chuan's International Baking Delights for a filling intended for baked buns), put it in a bao dough, and steam the bao? Am I missing something here and thinking something is simpler than it is?

edit: italicizing book titles

Edited October 11, 2003 by browniebaker (log)

[FoodZealot]

browniebaker beat me to posting. Oh well, here are my now redundant suggestions. [grin]

I've never seen custard buns, but they sound good! Sorry that I'm not a dim sum expert, and I haven't tried this recipe, so I can't vouch for this particular bao dough recipe, but FWIW, I'm suggesting it because there's both yeast and baking powder in it, which I think is responsible for that fluffy texture you're talking about. Also, I'm guessing the dough should be a little wet or sticky. If it's too easy to handle, it probably has too much flour. For flour, bleached all purpose should probably do it, but you might consider replacing a portion of the AP flour with cake flour.

Maybe you can construct your own with a bao dough and the filling from these egg custard tarts, although you'd probably have to let the custard set partially or tighten it up with some cornstarch or something to be able to wrap it in the bao dough.

I'm anxious to see more responses from experienced dim sum makers...

~Tad

edit: powder, not soda

Edited October 10, 2003 by FoodZealot (log)

[Gary Soup]

Also, does anyone know of a really good recipe for shanghai "juicy" dumplings? 

We haven't tried any at home, but here is another recipe that LOOKS about right (although it gives the making of the wrapper dough short shrift).

xiaolongbao recipe

You already have the Weichuan recipe.

[browniebaker]

There's a recipe in Wei-Chuan Publishing's Chinese Dim Sum cookbook that is on my list of recipes to try. It calls for cake flour and ammonium bicarbonate.

I should clarify that this recipe calls for yeast as well as ammonium bicarbonate for leavening.

As for using all-purpose flour: let me say that I (and many other home-bakers, I have heard tell) have used all-purpose flour in various combinations with yeast, baking powder, and baking soda and FAILED to achieve that spectacular fluffiness and whiteness of the best dim-sum houses. I really think cake flour is needed.

Funny thing is, I have many friends who are related to dim-sum chefs or Chinese-restaurant chefs, yet I cannot pry the secret of the fluffy white bao out of any of them. It is a closely held secret. Witness the periodic postings on internet baords by home-bakers seeking the recipe for fluffy white bao. Sigh.

[jackal10]

Florence Lin in COmplete Book of Chinese Noodles, Dumplings and Breads (now sadly out of print)

gives

3/4 cup warm water

1 package dried yeast

2 teaspoons sugar

2 Tbs corn oil

2 1/2 cups all purpose flour

She mixes the yeast with the water, then puts everything in a food processor with a metal blade and processes for 60 seconds after the dough has formed.

Shapes the buns, lets them rise for 30 mins on silicone paper, then steams them

Works for me; I think the key is omitting the salt.

Edited October 11, 2003 by jackal10 (log)

[trillium]

You can buy ammonium bicarbonate through the mail at King Arthur Flour. You can use it for making yew tiao too.

Cake flour, ammonium bicarb and lots of sugar for the yeast to go to town on is the key to those super white fluffy bao. Emphasis on the cake flour. I bought the super refined stuff out of HK in an asian grocery and the bao actually came out too fluffy and light for me, I wanted them a little chewier! So now I use all-purpose. Also, when you steam them, cabbage leaves work just as well as wax or silicone paper. I like making choy yuk bao, so I always save the tough outer leaves for steaming the bao on top of.

regards,

trillium

[mudbug]

You can also find bottles of ammonium bicarbonate at most Asian grocery stores. I've had no trouble finding any. They're typically near the soy sauce and vinegar bottles.

[jschyun]

So how do you make that creamy egg custard in the middle? I looked through all the books in the library including Wei-Chuan, Florence Lin and some others and didn't see any, although I was flipping rather fast in my urgent quest.

--edit The texture seems to be radically different from the egg custard tarts. In fact, I would say they aren't the same thing at all. Just my 2 cents.

--another edit So you use yeast with cake flour? That doesn't make sense to me. The cake flour would let all that gas escape. Please enlighten me. Thank you

Edited October 13, 2003 by jschyun (log)

[browniebaker]

Thank you, Trillium and Muidbug, for the suggestions for where to buy ammonium bicarbonate. And thanks, Trillium, for the voice of experience on making fluffy bao with cake flour; now I feel inspired to try the recipe using cake flour and ammonium bicarbonate, knowing it will work.

Jschyun: cake flour and yeast does produce a dough that rises; cake flour contains gluten, just not as much as all-purpose flour. As for the egg custard filling, did you look in Wei-Chuan's International Baking Delights? I'm not sure whether that custard filling is what you are looking for. That filling contains eggs, flour, sugar, and milk and is like a pastry cream; it is the filling found in the baked custard buns sold in Chinese bakeries and in dim sum restaurants. Could you describe in greater detail the filling you are looking for?

[Dejah]

I am having a dinner party on Sunday...for about 16 people.

They requested dim sum as it is not readily available in our small city.

So far, I have made beef meat balls, har gow, sui mai, curry chicken in puff pastry,

chicken/lapchung/mushroom steamed buns, sticky rice in lotus leaf. I will also have ribs in black bean garlic sauce and a lomein with lots of vegetables.

Questions: Can anyone suggest a good or complimentary order to serve up these items?

What would be a good soup to serve with this? I know they would love hot 'n'sour or congee...but I feel these would be "too heavy".

How about dessert? I was thinking of red bean/lotus nut soup and fresh fruit tray?

Tea would be best?

BTW, I am new to the forum, and I am having a blast reading all the posts! Thank you

[ecr]

I would offer congee, not hot and sour. And perhaps some roasted fowl: goose, duck, or chicken (duck would be my choice). And steamed choi sum or gai lan with oyster sauce.

[prasantrin]

I vote for congee, as well. If you're using the types of bowls usually used at dim sum, the servings will be relatively small so your guests won't get too full from it.

There is no "proper" order as far as I know. Just serve everything at once and allow your guests to help themselves. I've seen tables at dim sum where people order and eat both sweet and savoury items at the same time, so you wouldn't even have to serve dessert last.

For sweet dim sum, my favourites are coconut buns and sesame balls (the ones filled with bean paste). I also like mango pudding but I've never liked any of the ones served at dim sum. Not very mango-y.

[Dejah]

Thanks! Congee it is, and gai lan with oyster sauce is a favorite...

One item we CAN get here is Chinese long donuts, a must with congee!

[Pan]

I see you've decided on congee, but I was going to suggest that if you didn't want to serve congee, you could consider shrimp dumpling soup.

I always like to have chicken feet at dim sum, but most of my friends don't eat it.

Crab claws are fun to eat and popular.

[Dejah]

Well, maybe I won't decide on the soup until Sat. night...wait for all the suggestions to come in! I was even thinking of a light soup...watercress, or winter melon.

I love chicken feet, but not sure if all my guests would appreciate the effort and time I'd take to make them

This forum is incredible. Wish I had found this sooner. There are so many "old threads" I would have loved to participate in.

[Pan]

You can participate in any old thread. Just post a reply to it.

[Pan]

Oh, and I love winter melon soup.

[Gary Soup]

Welcome, Dejah!

As prasantrin suggested, there is no particular order for dim sum. The carts roll by in seemingly random order, and you grab what you want when you can.

In San Francisco, people typically make do with egg tarts for dessert, and congee is about the only soup that you'll see at dim sum, unless you're blending dim sum in with lunch or dinner.

If you ask me (which you didn't) my must-have dim sum item is "bee's nest" taro croquettes!

Odd that you live in a town with youtiao but no dim sum.

[Dejah]

Thanks Gary, for the welcome

I live on the prairies where majority of the population is focused on meat and potatoes, Chinese buffet, pizza, etc. Our Superstore does carry a good assortment of Chinese vegetables, a few baked goods, etc. Several restaurants have tried the dim sum menu, but only a small select group of well travelled caucasians would partake. The Chinese population is small and they like to make their own;) Such thrifty people!

I would love to make the taro croquettes, at another time, after some practice IF you can give me the recipe and how-to's. Do you make custard tarts? Can you substitute any other kind of pastry recipe for the ones usually found in Chinese cookbooks. They always seem to be a lot of work

I am having my party for supper...or as Americans would say "dinner".

[Shiewie]

Welcome Dejah

Congee and gai larn as suggested by ecr sounds good to me too.

Here'a a link to a recipe for taro corquettes (Woo Kok).

I haven't tried making custard tarts but IMHO the flaky crumbly chinese-style pastry works best as it seems to melt in your mouth together the wobbly custard .

[Gary Soup]

Ah, Dejah, I don't cook, I only eat. My wife cooks Chinese exclusively, but she's Shanghainese, not Cantonese. For us, dim sum is all "eating out" stuff.

It seems like you've got a grip on making dim sum aleady. No taro croquettes (aka taro "puffs") in your source materials? I may have a recipe around for the bee's nest taro, I'll look for one. I buy Chinese cookbooks mostly to stare at the pictures, so I'm not sure if it'll be in English.

BTW, where I grew up dinner was also called "supper" and lunch was called "dinner".

[ludja]

If you want another starchy dish with less meat, how about turnip cakes? These have a little pork in them. These are a favorite of mine at dim sum but I don't know too much about them. Does anyone have a recipe for these? Does one use preserved turnips?

Thanks

[prasantrin]

I live on the prairies where majority of the population is focused on meat and potatoes, Chinese buffet, pizza, etc. Our Superstore does carry a good assortment of Chinese vegetables, a few baked goods, etc. Several restaurants have tried the dim sum menu, but only a small select group of well travelled caucasians would partake. The Chinese population is small and they like to make their own;) Such thrifty people!

With the Superstore comment, I would have guessed you were from Winnipeg but since you lack dim sum in your area, I thought maybe somewhere in Saskatchewan .

I forgot to mention my favourite dim sum offering, which is hum sui gok. The dough is made from glutinous rice flour (I think) and is every so slightly sweet. It is filled with a ground pork mixture, then deep fried. I can't find a recipe by Googling, but there's a description of it here. In Winnipeg restaurants often refer to them as "deep fried Chinese perogy", which in my opinion, they are nothing like.

[marie-louise]

Here is a link to an incredible dim sum place in San Francisco. Note that they say dessert items are to be eaten along w/ savory items. No recipes, but lots of mouth-watering pictures in the photo gallery at the bottom. They don't have it, but in addition to my favorite sweet-the egg tarts- I am also fond of little cubes of what I think is almond jello in a sweet sauce. Sometimes it has a little canned fruit in it. It is always served very cold, and it is very refreshing.

PS Please do just reply to the old threads. I haven't been here that long, and I love it when old threads pop to the surface.