An Appeal for a Peel, Pizza that Is

[phaelon56]

Do you think this approach is better than using high gluten content flour, mechanical kneading, proofing, punchdown and then a rest overnight in the the refrigerator? IIRC, this was one of the strong recommendations on a pizza dough thread I initiated last year but I didn't get back to trying it out. I definitely won't be using the bread machien to bake bread and despite an abundance of counter space I have no burning desire to have more gadgets around. One of the reasons i so rarely use the electric hand mixer is that I'd rather just use a stainless steel whip - it's so much easier than digging out and cleaning up an electric device.

[slkinsey]

Yea, I think it's better. Personally, I tend to use regular AP flour with around 20% cake flour mixed in to lighten it rather than high gluten flour. The way I learned to make pizza dough involved an extra-long fermenation startiung with very little yeast at (cool) room temperature. That's what I do, and it's always worked brilliantly for me. If you want to save money and don't want to acquire another gadget, it's what I would also do if I were you.

[ExtraMSG]

Decided to do some testing. Here's the method that seemed to work pretty well (pictures follow):

1) Did the dough thing. Rolled it out thin and put it on a piece of parchment and poked a bunch of holes in it with a fork.

2) Put it on my weak-ass pizza stone (is it supposed to get so black? there was a disgusting amount of fumes coming out of the oven while it was heating) with the parchment. Oven was heated to 550 degrees for 45 minutes.

3) Cooked it for two minutes, then put on the toppings. Turned on the broiler and cooked it for about 3-5 more minutes.

I really like the effect of the broiler. If I had more dough, I might have tried turning on the broiler as soon as the dough went in. I know the broiler turns off with too much heat, but it stayed on pretty consistently, maybe because the time was so short.

The parchment made it much easier. No peel necessary. Even made removal easy by allowing me to just gingerly pull on the parchment and put the pizza into my hand.

I would like a crispier crust. I used Hazan's dough recipe with a little cake flour subbed for AP and probably less flour overall. Any suggestions?

[scott123]

Owen, once the oven you're building is realized (2" thick hearth, 3/4" thick ceiling, up to 800 degree heat), you will have very close to the same capabilities as a Vulcan style pizzeria oven. I think since you're matching their oven, you should really try to see if you can match their ingredients/procedures as well - within reason.

A Kitchenaid would, to an extent, mirror the effect of a pizzeria Hobart mixer, but, being in a similar financial situation myself, I understand your reluctance to spend that kind of money. Until I get a KA, I knead my dough by hand.

The bread machine's biggest flaw, imo, is that it's completely based on dry yeast and warm proofing. As far as the proofing goes, I can say that since I have only seen finished pizzeria dough coming from the refrigerator and haven't witnessed it's initial stages I don't know if the dough gets a warm proof/punch down or not. Since it does come from the fridge, I get a strong feeling that pizzerias might implement a long cool rise. Maybe one of the pizza makers in this forum could tell us more about the proofing process. The yeast they use, I'm fairly certain is fresh, really fresh, not those cubes you get in the supermarket. And their flour is definitely high gluten. High gluten flour, in my experience, is the only flour that allows me to pull pizza dough thin enough to see through it - without ever tearing. At least with the good high gluten flours I've used.

It's quite possible that you aren't quite as driven as I am to recreate Vulcan style oven pizza at home, but if you are, I highly recommend finding a good bakery that will sell you bread flour and yeast (a lot do). My bakery sells me a 1 lb. block of incredibly fresh yeast for $2 and phenomenal bread flour for 50¢/lb. The 1 lb. block of yeast is not that cost effective - you'll never use the whole thing, but the results you get will far outweigh the cost.

The flour I get from my bakery is this:

http://www.progressivebaker.com/products/spring/spking.htm

Made by this company:

http://www.horizonmilling.com/index.html

I've was a big fan of King Arthur's for many years until I found this. Compared to my bakery flour, King Arthur's, at least the King Arthur's that I get in my supermarket, is garbage. Smell, taste, crumb, and most importantly manageability are all far superior with the commercial flour I get. I love this stuff. Of the multitude of ingredients I cook with, there are certain ones that bring a smile to my face every time I work with them. This flour is one of those ingredients.

I know that the picture I'm painting involves a lot more work/complexity than a bread machine with supermarket flour, but, as I said before, if you've put in the time to build a kick ass oven, why not go the extra distance for the ingredients as well.

Edited March 17, 2004 by scott123 (log)

[scott123]

ExtraMSG, your smoking stone is probably caused by oil absorbed from your dough. Do you cook anything oily on it? How much oil is in yor pizza dough? Even with parchment paper some oil might seep through.

That certainly looks like a delicious pizza. Did it taste as good as it looks?

Edited March 17, 2004 by scott123 (log)

[phaelon56]

Scott - I think you might try stretchign the dough rather than rolling it. It's my understanding that the rolling process affects the structure of the dough in such a way that it has a distinct effect on the final texture. Most seem to feel that stretching yields the best results.

My favorite local artisan bakery actually uses King Arthur but I think it's not the same variety of King Arthur that is sold in the grocery stores. The chief baker there is an old friend so I'm sure that buying some flour and yeast will be easy enough.

We received 8" of snow last night - it may be a few more weeks before I can get the grill out and running

[ExtraMSG]

ExtraMSG, your smoking stone is probably caused by oil absorbed from your dough. Do you cook anything oily on it? How much oil is in yor pizza dough? Even with parchment paper some oil might seep through.

That certainly looks like a delicious pizza. Did it taste as good as it looks?

It never blackened before, but this is the first time I let it heat at 550 for 45 minutes. It happened before I made the pizza. I only use a tbsp or two of oil. It had been a while since I used the stone. I'm thinking of following the advice here and getting some slabs.

I think it came out pretty decent for what I was trying to do, using an uncooked sauce and all. I think I do prefer richer sauces with more depth. I wish I had some parm, too.

I'd also like to make the crust a little more crisp and crunchy. I'm not sure what does that.

[scott123]

Owen, I use 'stretching' and 'pulling' interchangeably. Stretching is a better way to refer to it. No rolling in this house :)

Hopefully the King Arthur flour you get won't be the same as mine. If you make a firm lean dough (oiled bowl only) and the dough is tacky/hard to work with, then that's the crummy stuff. Also, the smell is a dead giveaway. When smelled next to the good stuff, it has a noticeable chemical quality to it.

If you'd like, at some point I'd even be willing to mail you a few ounces of the good stuff just so you can compare it with something.

I'm sorry to hear the snow is putting a wrench in your plans. I think this could be the last snow storm of the season here in NJ. At least I'm hoping it is.

[phaelon56]

I should think that the flour they're using is "the good stuff"

Pasta's Daily Bread

Their "stretch bread" is to die for. It's a baguette sort of shape and is hands down the best bread I have ever eaten anywhere. I'm doing the foodblog next week (starting this Saturday) and will include a short piece on them and their resident bread guru Peter Lord.

Hopefully this will be out last storm of the season but we've had snow as late as early May on occasion - the Fat Lady has not yet finished singing.

[A Patric]

Dear Scott 123,

I know that this thread is long retired, but I am interested to know, after reading the whole thread, how did your oven turn out? Are you happy with your pizzas? Do you have photos of the setup and the pizzas?

Sincerely,

Alan

[scott123]

Well Alan, it's funny you bring this up. I just got finished dismantling the firebrick from my oven. Almost immediately after obtaining all the necessary equipment to make vulcan oven style pizza at home, I decided to go low carb. I thought it was going to be a few month thing and then I'd go back to my pizza quest. Well, here were are almost two years later and I'm still doing the low carb thing. It's a trade off. I miss pizza tremendously (both home made and take out) but I do feel significantly better following this lifestyle.

I still firmly believe in everything that I've stated here- that with the right ingredients and enough thermal mass, vulcan oven style pizza can be made it home. The vision is as real to me as the monitor in front of me. At some point I will make it a reality.

Btw, as I re-read this thread, it was quite embarassing as to how little I knew at the beginning. Although we didn't always see eye to eye, I learned an amazing amount from Sam and Jason. Thanks guys.