Ice Cream Machines

[paulraphael]

16 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Actually, my favorite flavor is vanilla without the vanilla, called Sweet Cream (McConnell's) or Fior di Latte.    Just milk/cream and sugar.   Not very sweet.  

 

How much sugar per 1000g?

[horseflesh]

Since this thread has come back to life...

 

Does anyone have new input on ice cream machines? Are any of the less-expensive refrigerated units worth having? 

 

I currently have one of the pre-frozen cylinder style. Reviews usually say that they make ice cream which is often better than that from refrigerated units, as the pre-frozen cylinder may still freeze faster than a cheap freezer does. This makes them a great value... but so inconvenient. 

 

If someone has a refrigerated unit they love (not a full commercial model) I would like to hear about it. Obviously what I need in my life is the ability to make several batches of ice cream in a day. 

 

[paulraphael]

1 minute ago, horseflesh said:

Does anyone have new input on ice cream machines? Are any of the less-expensive refrigerated units worth having? 

 

 

I can't speak from any testing experience, but I'm quite skeptical of affordable compressor machines. The most important aspect of freezing ice cream is speed, and these machines often take 45 minutes or more. It's possible to make smooth ice cream with a 45 minute residence time, but you're doing it in spite of the machine, not with its help. Another thing to consider is the long-term outlook of a cheap refrigeration compressor. How long will the thing likely go before it breaks, and is it even serviceable?

 

The nice thing about freezer bowl machines—if you're lucky enough to have a powerful freezer, that you can set to several degrees below zero F—is that you can get a lot of freezing power out of them.

 

The downside, as you suggest, is that they're a pain in the ass.

 

I use a freezer bowl at home, and suspect I'd need to spend a couple of thousand bucks on a compressor machine that would outperform it. This is because it's got a massive bowl, and my freezer can go really low. But like you, I'm stuck with making one batch a day.

 

 

[Yiannos]

21 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

How much sugar per 1000g?

 

I feel like if you are eating something that someone got right, and it's delicious, questions like this don't even come into the equation.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

24 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

How much sugar per 1000g?

Probably 100 gr or <.   To taste as in all cooking.

[weinoo]

Every ice cream maker has its limitations, I guess @paulraphael!

 

Re: Reviews - Lellos are still pretty much considered tanks, and get good reviews all over, if you can deal with price and their idiosyncracies.

 

The machine I'd buy next is the smaller footprint, taller Whynter, which has a capacity over 2 liters.

 

Here's a site which might help too...http://icecreamscience.com/

Edited July 28, 2020 by weinoo (log)

[weinoo]

10 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

But like you, I'm stuck with making one batch a day.

 

You could buy a second bowl, no?  But then, like me, you'd really have no room in your freezer!

[Margaret Pilgrim]

We own 1 geriatric but 100% viable Simac tank which lived in the country, and 3 Donvier qt, who live in the freezer, allowing us to make multi flavors for dinner parties.    

[paulraphael]

6 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

You could buy a second bowl, no?  But then, like me, you'd really have no room in your freezer!

 

Exactly. There's a lot of fighting for freezer space around here already.

[paulraphael]

9 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Probably 100 gr or <.   To taste as in all cooking.

 

This would be even lower sweetness than what I make ... but would be hard as concrete at normal freezer temperatures. You'd have to warm it to over 20°F to get it scoopable. Some people are ok with doing this.

Blending different sugars just lets you control these qualities independently.

[paulraphael]

16 minutes ago, Yiannos said:

 

I feel like if you are eating something that someone got right, and it's delicious, questions like this don't even come into the equation.

 

Really? That's exactly when I ask questions like this. I want to know how to do it.

 

In this case I ask because I want to know what we're talking about—since language like "too sweet" and "too hard" are completely subjective.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

10 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

This would be even lower sweetness than what I make ... but would be hard as concrete at normal freezer temperatures. You'd have to warm it to over 20°F to get it scoopable. Some people are ok with doing this.

Blending different sugars just lets you control these qualities independently.

I bring ice cream to refrigerator level when I serve the main course, starter course if we’re not serving cheese.     This gives it a half hour or so to soften.    Works well for us.   Note that the commercial brands we buy are also very hard right out of the freezer.  I want “chewable” ice cream.

[Yiannos]

10 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

Really? That's exactly when I ask questions like this. I want to know how to do it.

 

This is correct, I totally get what you're saying and of course I do this. The same thing happens to me as a musician listening to music, I can't help but dissect and analyze. But I find I am always happiest when I am able to just listen.

[paulraphael]

2 minutes ago, Yiannos said:

 

This is correct, I totally get what you're saying and of course I do this. The same thing happens to me as a musician listening to music, I can't help but dissect and analyze. But I find I am always happiest when I am able to just listen.

 

Many disciplines need both a pesky analytical brain and an off-switch.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, horseflesh said:

Since this thread has come back to life...

 

Does anyone have new input on ice cream machines? Are any of the less-expensive refrigerated units worth having? 

 

I currently have one of the pre-frozen cylinder style. Reviews usually say that they make ice cream which is often better than that from refrigerated units, as the pre-frozen cylinder may still freeze faster than a cheap freezer does. This makes them a great value... but so inconvenient. 

 

If someone has a refrigerated unit they love (not a full commercial model) I would like to hear about it. Obviously what I need in my life is the ability to make several batches of ice cream in a day. 

 

 

I've had three compressor ice cream makers.  I recommend the Cuisinart ICE-100.  I spin my ice cream in the ICE-100 for 15-20 minutes.

 

[horseflesh]

2 hours ago, paulraphael said:

I use a freezer bowl at home, and suspect I'd need to spend a couple of thousand bucks on a compressor machine that would outperform it.

 

Every time I look that seems to be the answer ... but I keep hoping for something to change.

 

56 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I've had three compressor ice cream makers.  I recommend the Cuisinart ICE-100.  I spin my ice cream in the ICE-100 for 15-20 minutes.

 

Hmmm.... Not bad. 15-20 minutes is in the same ballpark as my pre-frozen cylinder. 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

2 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

 

I use a freezer bowl at home,...

Where else do you make ice cream and what do you use?

[paulraphael]

32 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Where else do you make ice cream and what do you use?

 

I use the Kitchenaid attachment. It gets mixed reviews but I think it's great. As with other freezer bowls, how well it works depends on how cold you can get your freezer. The sweet spot seems to be around -6 to -8F. If you chill the bowl 15 hours at those temps and have a well-designed recipe, you can freeze the ice cream in 7–8 minutes. I also like that the mixer has variable speeds, so if you want a little bit more overrun, you can just turn it up a notch or two for the last minute. 

 

I've made ice cream at ice cream shops and in pastry kitchens, using things from giant White Mountain rock salt and ice machines (cool looking but awful) to high-end Carpigiani machines (awesome). I've used liquid nitrogen and dry ice in the mixer. I've used those big plastic balls that you fill with salt and ice and give to kids to kick around the yard. I've never used a Paco Jet.

[teonzo]

4 hours ago, weinoo said:

You know, thinking about this (ingredients in ice cream) a little more, wouldn't the holy grail actually be creating a perfect vanilla ice cream (let's set aside how long it's going to sit in your freezer for - this isn't an Albert Brooks' movie) using only the "traditional" ingredients; i.e. milk, cream, sugar, vanilla bean?

 

When you deal with fiordilatte (or "white bases" in general) much depends on how you cook the milk and cream.
If you can source raw milk and raw cream (or only raw milk and then separate the cream) and are willing to take a risk, then you can mix milk+cream+sugar at refrigerator temperatures (use an immersion blender to help the sugar to dissolve), then churn it. You'll get the best tasting fiordilatte you'll ever experienced, not because of texture, freezing point depression or else, but simply because you started with the best tasting ingredients.
If you don't want to take a risk then you can start from pasteurized milk and cream, then proceed as above. Without heating milk and cream you avoid ruining their taste (industrial pasteurization is a light and quick process).
If you cook your base to include stabilizers or whatever reason, then you are going to kill its taste. For many reasons professionals prefer to cook the base (sanitary reasons are the main concern), but at home you are free to do whatever you want without following HACCP protocols.

 

 

Teo

 

[paulraphael]

1 hour ago, teonzo said:

 

When you deal with fiordilatte (or "white bases" in general) much depends on how you cook the milk and cream.
If you can source raw milk and raw cream (or only raw milk and then separate the cream) and are willing to take a risk, then you can mix milk+cream+sugar at refrigerator temperatures (use an immersion blender to help the sugar to dissolve), then churn it. You'll get the best tasting fiordilatte you'll ever experienced, not because of texture, freezing point depression or else, but simply because you started with the best tasting ingredients.
If you don't want to take a risk then you can start from pasteurized milk and cream, then proceed as above. Without heating milk and cream you avoid ruining their taste (industrial pasteurization is a light and quick process).
If you cook your base to include stabilizers or whatever reason, then you are going to kill its taste. For many reasons professionals prefer to cook the base (sanitary reasons are the main concern), but at home you are free to do whatever you want without following HACCP protocols.

 

 

Teo

 

 

I've never had ice cream made with raw milk, but have hesitations about the whole idea, separate from the safety-related ones. 

 

Uncooked milk proteins behave very differently in an ice cream than cooked ones. When the proteins are denatured by  the right degree of cooking, they take on new properties that are helpful in terms of texture and emulsification. 

 

One flavor test that I've done is between milk and cream from a small dairy (pasture-fed cows, low-temperature pasteurized—delicious milk and cream) vs. dairy from the supermarket (the usual ultra-pasteurized industrial farm stuff ... bland, slightly cooked tasting). We made unflavored ice cream with low sugar levels (around 11%) and then did a blind triangle test. No one could tell the difference between the artisanal dairy and the industrial stuff.

 

Meanwhile, anyone could tell the difference by tasting the milk and cream straight. The reasons are that the sugar overpowers the subtle dairy flavors, and that our sense of taste is just less sensitive to cold things (although in this case, we couldn't even taste the difference when tasting the melted ice cream). 

 

They did a similar experiment at Serious Eats and came to the same conclusion.

 

I still make all my ice cream with milk and cream from the small dairy. Partly because I want to support the farms, partly because I want low-temperature pasteurization (it allows more control in the cooking process) and partly because I want cream without added stabilizers (unknowable variables). But I'm now quite skeptical of claims that dairy ingredient quality is a factor in ice cream flavor—assuming everything's fresh, and you're not using dry milk powder that's impure or has been allowed to absorb odors. 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I bought a KitchenAid ice cream maker about twenty years ago.  As I recall I paid around $1000.  It did not make good ice cream, it was a pain to clean, plus it leaked.  It is in the running for my worst small appliance purchase ever.  My Simac ice cream maker is a pain to clean but at least it makes great ice cream.

 

[ccp900]

9 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I've had three compressor ice cream makers.  I recommend the Cuisinart ICE-100.  I spin my ice cream in the ICE-100 for 15-20 minutes.

 

Jo. How much mix do you put in the ice100 to do 15-20 min churns? 

[ccp900]

11 hours ago, horseflesh said:

Since this thread has come back to life...

 

Does anyone have new input on ice cream machines? Are any of the less-expensive refrigerated units worth having? 

 

I currently have one of the pre-frozen cylinder style. Reviews usually say that they make ice cream which is often better than that from refrigerated units, as the pre-frozen cylinder may still freeze faster than a cheap freezer does. This makes them a great value... but so inconvenient. 

 

If someone has a refrigerated unit they love (not a full commercial model) I would like to hear about it. Obviously what I need in my life is the ability to make several batches of ice cream in a day. 

 

There is the whynter icm201sb that looks like a winner. I haven’t tried it but a review I saw that ran it side by side with the ice100 had it winning in speed of churn and lower iciness. It might have a bigger motor that’s probably why since it is 2.1 qts.  It is a vertical design so it uses a smaller footprint which always helps in the kitchen. Kitchen space is always a problem

[JoNorvelleWalker]

12 minutes ago, ccp900 said:

Jo. How much mix do you put in the ice100 to do 15-20 min churns? 

 

Usually enough that the freezing mix does not push against the lid.  Most recently I made Rose Levy Beranbaum's chocolate which was a more generous recipe than I'm used to that spun in 20 minutes.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

16 minutes ago, ccp900 said:

There is the whynter icm201sb that looks like a winner. I haven’t tried it but a review I saw that ran it side by side with the ice100 had it winning in speed of churn and lower iciness. It might have a bigger motor that’s probably why since it is 2.1 qts.  It is a vertical design so it uses a smaller footprint which always helps in the kitchen. Kitchen space is always a problem

 

I was not aware of the ICM201sb.  Try it and report back.