Disastrous week of dining out!

[Cole Tucker]

First Friday night I went to the best sushi restaurants on St-Denis with two friends. It was hoping, busy like crazy. Food was good. The next day I thought I was going to die! Stomach gramps etc etc (I will spare you the details) I also broke out in rash down one side of my arm! I called two friends and they had the exact same thing. The only thing we have in common is that we all ate at that restaurant Friday. I am not saying it was that restaurant, it could be just a coincidence, but...

It is Weds and we still feel bad!! Anyways for business I was forced to entertain guests last night. They were staying at the Vogue, so I thought great we will go to Rosalie. Nope the hotel had convinced them to go to "Les Halles" Against all my whining they persisted and dragged me there. The food was $617 for five (Without wine, tax & tip) We didn't even order much food! I was scandalized. Now I don't mind spending the money but when the food is horrible, it makes me want to scream!! It's been years since they lost their touch. I ordered a "fish soup est sa rouille' I am used to having gloves of garlic with it to scrape on the croutons. So when it not come I asked for it, the waiter completely refused to bring me any garlic. And who charges 17.50$ for such a soup. I didn't look at the price before ordering. I will save you the details but all in all is was a disaster. I am now conviced that the food gods are conspiring against me, so I am cooking at home till Saturday, when I prey the spell will break and I will be able to go out and dine again. This last experince has also taught me a valuable experince. Next time I have to entertain guests I will go to Rosalie or Cavalli and ask them to meet me there!! Thereby not letting them choose another bad restaurant. If they ask me If we can meet at another place, I will complain about some imaginary ailment that does not allow me to change restaurants without having horrific flashbacks of bad meals!

[bleachboy]

You should check out this currently active thread for ideas on how best to complain to the sushi place -- which you should, they need to know.

[beaucher]

I cannot comment on your adventures with sushi, but it seems to me that it will happen more and more. Especially since too few restaurants serving sushis take real (and I mean absolute) care with the manipulation of fresh fish. Since sushi can actually make you very very ill (particularly pregnant women who may miscarry) I cannot recommend enough that people take sushi eating more seriously. Unfortunately, it is not the case. There are too many sushis places in MTL that have sprung up, and too few that are really very good. Most are so-so places, and I am always nervous and very careful if I have to eat there. I never eat at sushi places that are not run by a japanase, if I can help it.

An example: I wrote a story last summer and went to this sushi-chain (already an oxymoron of sorts, no?) in Outremont only to find that a plastic box was placed on top of a fridge, the box containing 6 freshly prepared sushi - or so I was told. When I commented on the fact that the fish was left out in the warmth, the young girl answered: "Oh! its no problem, they've been made this morning". It was 4 o'clock in the afternoon.

As for Les Halles, well. What to say. (sigh!). I call it complacency, the owners are convinced that serving this type of food is still popular and praised. So they do, and charge for it. But in reality, no one eats that way anymore, the cuisine of LH is tedious.It hasn't changed in 25 years, like an old book left on a shelf, collecting dust. It hasn't adapted, and I fear it is already condemend. If the Concierge of the hotel suggested that you go to Les Halles, hmmmm, I suspect he was given some form of royalty. Having worked at a hotel myself, and for many years, I can assure you that the practice is very common. Concierge have a little black book remember. In it they put their adresses, the good ones for retribution. This is not an invention of mine.

Without necessarily having gone to Rosalie (which I like) or Cavalli (which I don't know yet) there are many very good places to go and eat downtown that are far superior to Les Halles. There are little food books about eating out that tell you this anyway, and they're worth trusting.

[davidkemp]

now you know always have fish and seafood cooked.as for eating downtown nobody beats queue de cheval .had supper a couple of nights ago .killer ribeye excellent service.worth every penny.

[Lesley C]

You know, I went to Les Halles a few years ago expecting a big fat disappointment, and I ended up having a really good meal. I had some nice hot foie gras served with a magret and I remember we also had this delicate salmon and veal with mustard sauce. It was all so much better than expected. And I had this great waiter -- a real French pro, and friendly as well. I love their dessert service when they bring all the cakes to the table. And their tarte au framboise is excellent.

I was there again for a press dinner last year, and I thought it was pretty mediocre. They served a modern-style tasting menu that just didn't work.

At Les Halles, stick to the classics as much as possible and try to eat there on a quiet night. But no, it wouldn't be my first choice for downtown dining either (that, for fun, would definitely be the Troika!). Then again, I think my parents would prefer Les Halles to Cavalli or Rosalie. It's a very old-fashioned -- adult -- restaurant. There's definite appeal for a certain crowd.

[VivreManger]

The last time I tried Les Halles was about two or three years ago and for what it was. it was fine. The service was excellent and the modest demands imposed on the kitchen well-met. Sorry to learn of the recent disappointments, but Montreal does not lack alternatives.

[Rabbit Angstrom]

I like Lesley's choice of words: an "adult" restaurant... A safe bet for when the relatives are in town - an older generation of relatives, at any rate.

(Mind you, I took my parents - who aren't foodies by any measure - to Les Chèvres for my mom's birthday in December, and they were just... blown away by Stelio's and Patrice's wares. So, maybe one shouldn't underestimate anyone's capacity or willingness to explore... I *did* have to convince my dad that a meatless 12-course meal isn't a completely off-the-wall proposition in 21st century Montreal. But he did come around - was ecstatic, actually.)

But "adult" should never mean "dusty", in my opinion. Da Vinci is certainly a very "adult" restaurant: not dusty. Les Caprices de Nicolas is also an "adult" restaurant, I think: definitely not dusty. And one could say that the Beaver Club is the epitome of the "adult" restaurant in Montreal: I've been told it's not dusty, but I haven't eaten there in years, so I can't tell...

All this to say that so-called "adult" restaurants are often overlooked by foodies - amateurs and professionals alike, since we're always eager to discover the "new new thing" -, and therefore may have a tendency to rest on past laurels. Which might be the case at Les Halles.

I'd have to try it for myself, though. Haven't been there in ages.

- Stéphane

[Lesley C]

I had a horrible dinner at the Beaver Club this fall and it cost a mint. The room isn't dusty anymore, but the food sure is.

[Cole Tucker]

Beaucher, I am very very careful about where I eat Sushi. I don't trust 98% of places. The place where we ate is highly recommended on this site and in the papers all the time. That is why I was so surprised with our situation.

As for Les Halles it truly was a bad meal. I think it had a lot to due with the fact that it was early in the week and the best of the kitchen staff was off. I am pretty spolied and eat out about 4 nights a week and even more so when I am traveling on business. I can almost feel a bad dining experience from the moment I walk in the room.. Good news is I think the spell has broken, I had a great meal last night at La Chronique, simply fantastic.

[Restaurant Les Halles]

Answer to Cole Tucker’s remarks on February 4th 2004

I read your comments on Les Halles, February 4th 2004.

I believe your stomach Gramps ( cramps) have influenced your judgment.

I respect everyone’s opinions, but I do not respect anyone’s lies.

The food bill was not $617.00 for 5 persons without wines, taxes but $440.00 for drinks, wine, food and taxes. And this can be proven with the copy of the bill.

2nd Lie, The waiter (who remembers you) brought you the garlic for your fish soup and you ate it all. By the way, it is not garlic gloves but garlic cloves.

As for Rosalie, they have 2 stars in 2004 guide Debeur and Les Halles have 4 ( same for the last 10 years) and this is a known food book ( as you call it).

I am the owner of Les Halles since 1971 and to finish, when it comes to orthograph, you too are a “disaster”.

Jacques Landurie

[Restaurant Les Halles]

Answer to Mr Beaucher’s comments on February 5th 2004

I am the owner of Les Halles, since 1971 and was very surprised by your comments. Les Halles’s Table d’Hôte Changes every 3 months, we have a well balanced À la Carte menu which has been changed in the last 6 months. I do not believe you have been at Les Halles very often.

In 2004 Les Halles is still a 4 Stars with CAA-AAA and 4 Stars with Debeur Guide ( 4 stars for the last 10 years).

If your only purpose in life is to destroy, I pity you.

Jacques Landurie

[FistFullaRoux]

er???? We got any way to verify who's responding to these posts?

Especially being inflammatory about it?

[Lesley C]

Yes, I will.

As he signed, the two posts by Restaurant Les Halles are by the owner, Jacques Landurie. Welcome to eGulllet Mr. Landurie.

I'm always happy to see a restaurateur stick up for his restaurant.

[carswell]

I'm always happy to see a restaurateur stick up for his restaurant.

Agreed but isn't doing so in ways that are gratuitously insulting to other members ("I pity you", "you too are a 'disaster'") a violation of the eGullet.com User Agreement?

[FistFullaRoux]

Yes, I will.

As he signed, the two posts by Restaurant Les Halles are by the owner, Jacques Landurie. Welcome to eGulllet Mr. Landurie. 

I'm always happy to see a restaurateur stick up for his restaurant.

Well, I did submit the post for review. Hopefully, we'll find out from FatGuy or the Perlows shortly...

Edited to add: Oops, just realized that Lesley C is part of the management of the site. I'd like to know if you have verified, other than matching the name, if this is really the owner.

And as someone upthread mentioned, I wonder if the post is in violation of the user agreement.

Although I have to say that if it is the actual owner of the restaurant who posted these comments, I'd have to think long and hard about visiting his establishment.

Edited March 5, 2004 by FistFullaRoux (log)

[Lesley C]

I guess I have pretty thick skin.

If you dole it out thick you gotta be ready to take it.

"Tedious" and "horrible" are pretty strong comments.

I know because I've used them in the past to describe restaurants and pastry shops as well. And I would always be willing to defend such harsh language. But if those two posters want to use such strong terms, I see no reason why Mr. Landurie should not be allowed to do the same.

And yes, I verified, this is Mr. Landurie.

[FistFullaRoux]

Good enough for me. Case closed.

[Kenk]

Thank you M. Landurie for your comments. I think it demonstrates your desire to maintain a high level of quality in your restaurant. This is what separates the good from the bad restaurants. Most of the time the most important ingredient in any dish is that the person preparing it cares.

Cheers

[Cole Tucker]

Answer to Jacques Landurie's remarks Posted on Mar 5 2004, 01:54 PM.

Dear Mr. Landurie I am glad to see you pop up on EGullet. It seems you visited to post your comments and then just as fast disappeared. You should stick around, I am sure you would learn some new things. I suppose those that alerted you to my last post, will do so once again and you will pop in, take your shot and then disappear just as fast. I would have responded sooner, but I have been traveling and eating at some very very fine restaurants. Did you know that Washington DC has a "Les Halles" Firstly I was led to belive that this sight is for people that truly love food and want to share their experiences, the good, the bad and the ugly.

While I have had many a good meal in the past at Les Halles, this wasn't one of them. "The food bill was not $617.00 for 5 persons without wines, taxes but $440.00 for drinks, wine, food and taxes. And this can be proven with the copy of the bill. " I apologize you are right on this matter. I settled accounts that night with my confrere and he asked me for $310. I assumed it was all for the meal, but I found out later that it included some other things. That said it included 2 drinks,1 btl of wine $60. Thats it. "2nd Lie, The waiter (who remembers you) brought you the garlic for your fish soup and you ate it all. By the way, it is not garlic gloves but garlic cloves" I never said he never brought me the garlic cloves, I said I had to fight for them. I asked the waiter for the garlic as I am used to having it served that way and he didnt want to bring me any. After we jostled back and forth the maitre D' motioned for him to bring me the cloves, which he then did. "I am the owner of Les Halles since 1971 and to finish, when it comes to orthograph, you too are a “disaster”.Jacques Landurie" LOL this is so funny I can here you screaming this at the computer as you got someone to type it for you. Mr. Landurie maybe my orthograph is a disaster, but my taste buds and love for food and the hospitality business isn't. A wiseman once said (I don't remember who, my memory must be a disaster) said "When a man has a good argument, he attacks the other man's reason, when his argument is weak, he attacks the man" This is what you have chosen to do. Mr. Landurie after 20 years of having been in the hospitality business I honestly will admit that I have unfortunately not scored 100% all the time. Like all things in life it can happen. We both know the many many things that can happen even when we have the best intentions. Someone such as yourself should do the gentlemanly thing and admit that things do go wrong, even at "Les Halles" I am sure you will continue to serve many a find meal, do great business and have many happy customers, but not me or my friends. At the end of the day it is not the meal that has permanently spoiled me on your restaurant, it is your attitude, the same attitude that I experienced that night.

I wish you luck and hope that we will both learn something from this exchange.

[carswell]

Glad you finally replied, Cole, and even gladder you did so civilly.

"When a man has a good argument, he attacks the other man's reason, when his argument is weak, he attacks the man." This is what you have chosen to do.

Exactly. You and beaucher dissed a meal, a dining experience, a thing. Mr. Landurie dissed you, a person. Big difference.

At the end of the day it is not the meal that has permanently spoiled me on your restaurant, it is your attitude, the same attitude that I experienced that night.

I second that. Actually, I seconded it on Chowhound a couple of weeks ago in response to a query about Les Halles. Quoting myself:

Les Halles has been getting mixed reports of late. I stopped going a few years ago because I found the menu and décor tired, the waiters smarmy and the prices high (for what it delivers). The owner's recent vicious attacks on a couple of negative reviewers (including La Presse's Robert Beauchemin) on another board are off-putting enough to convince me to stay away for good (how would he react to a legitimate complaint at the resto, one wonders). I'm sure I'm not the only one.

To my surprise, the post was soon deleted. In an off-board exchange, the alpha hound himself explained that a reader had complained that it was unfair to claim the owner had engaged in vicious attacks when, in fact, he was the *victim* of vicious attacks. Leff encouraged me to repost the message with the offending sentences removed; bothered by his opinion-stifling and the complainer's spinelessness (instead of appending a dissenting post to mine and giving me the opportunity to defend my opinion, s/he argued for censorship), I didn't.

I suppose those that alerted you to my last post, will do so once again

Wonder if it's the same minion who complained to Chowhound.

Edited May 5, 2004 by carswell (log)

[Jeffy Boy]

I never said he never brought me the garlic cloves, I said I had to fight for them.

I think you need to write what you mean. From your first post, I was certainly led to believe the waiter never brought you garlic cloves. Must have been this statement you made:

So when it not come I asked for it, the waiter completely refused to bring me any garlic.

And your assertion that the bill was $617 was pretty specific. As it was obviously NOT $617, I'm afraid your credibility level registers pretty low.

[eat2much]

In that there are usually three sides to every story, isn't there something just a little "wrong" with slamming a restaurant (or a cheese shop for that matter) publicly without trying to resolve the conflict with management beforehand?

If I had a waiter who refused to bring me some garlic (or salt, pepper, water, etc.) I would probably ask to speak to the manager. If the manager turned out to be as useless or antagonistic as the waiter, then I would have fewer qualms about making my accusations public.

Once the complaint is out there for the whole world to see, the mangement is placed in a no win position. Even on the stinky cheese thread the conflict was handled more tactfully, but it took six weeks to resolve what could have been easily handled quickly and privately with a phonecall.

just my $.02

[Lesley C]

Hmmm, not to take sides on this (I find both these men's reactions over the top), but Les Halles really isn't the kind of place where they bring garlic cloves to the table. It isn't a bistro.

[riboflavinjoe]

oh for chrissakes, its GARLIC CLOVES!!! AAARRRGH!