Tipping Etiquette Question

[markabauman]

We had the opportunity this past weekend to dine at one of New York's 4-star restaurants. When I presented my credit card and received the form to be signed, rather than just where you fill in "Tip", it had separate lines for "Tip" as well as a second, separate line for "Captain's Tip". We certainly had a significant number of people serving us that evening- I lost count. The captain, of course, did much of the consulting with menu choices, overseeing, etc. However, since this was our first experience in a restaurant of this caliber in New York, I was a little uncertain as to what, if any, customary breakdown, division, etc. of gratuity is given between general staff tip and for the captain specifically. We have dined in other (not many) restaurants of near this level in other cities, but don't recall seeing this on the credit slip before. Any advice greatly appreciated from those more accustomed to dining in such places.

[tommy]

which restaurant was this?

that's such an old-school practice. you don't see it very often. i just tip the 20% or whatever and let them worry about it. i can't be bothered.

Edited January 26, 2004 by tommy (log)

[markabauman]

The restaurant was Le Bernadin. Normally, I'd do the same

[Jeffy Boy]

I've read you should give 5% to the captain/headwaiter, and the balance (10-15%)to your personal waiter. But I've never actually seen this in a restaurant.

Sounds kind of pretentious to me, and I think it would turn me off. I'd do the same and lump it all together. Believe me - they'll figure out how to split it!

[Lreda]

I leave 25% to 30 % in the area I live because I don't want to be known as the cheap mother****** that owns The Grill. Otherwise I'm with Tommy, I tip 20-25% and let them worry about it. Although in a sushi joint and I'm at the bar I tip 10% to the chefs and 15% to the servers. ( Why, I don't know, they take my order, open the wine and go away.)

[Mark Sommelier]

Every place is different.

[MichaelB]

Like many of you, I write one big number across both lines.

[john b]

Ask Larry David what happens when you don't tip the captain.

[jackal10]

Its a rip-off, and demeaning

The restaurant should pay their staff properly so that they should not need to beg for tips.

I wonder what percentage the restaurant takes?

[tommy]

Every place is different.

are you suggesting that people are supposed to know how each place handles this? are the acceptable percentages different from place to place or something like that? or is it really true that one tip amount is all any place really needs.

[Liz Johnson]

I have also seen this at Aureole. It's been so long I can't remember for sure how I handled it but I think I wrote the tip on the regular line and ignored the captain's tip line.

[beans]

Its a rip-off, and demeaning

The restaurant should pay their staff properly so that they should not need to beg for tips.

I wonder what percentage the restaurant takes?

The percentage the restaurant takes? You mean of the tip? I would hope that would be a resounding z-e-r-o percent. (Geesz, what service staff would work for an establishment wherein they hand over a percentage of their tips to the restaurant, too?)

Each and every time the tipping issue arises and one states a restaurant ought to pay their staff decently instead of counting on tips, I will consistently assert -- I'm glad that day doesn't appear to be near as I would never be paid in salary what I do earn in tips.

I do not agree it is either a rip off or demeaning. I provide a valuable service that does not go unrewarded.

Mixing some awesome cocktails and serving with aplomb!

If a restaurant is old school with a designation line for the captain, throw 'em a bone and tip what you feel is fair -- commensurate with the amount of attention that said captain contributed to serving your table. Often it is a team effort of both a captain and server at some restaurants, so I believe "sharing in the wealth" (the tip) is appropriate. This works when a captain does diddly squat too -- no tip is necessary and rightfully ought to go to your server.

[Mark Sommelier]

Every place is different.

are you suggesting that people are supposed to know how each place handles this? are the acceptable percentages different from place to place or something like that? or is it really true that one tip amount is all any place really needs.

There is quite a difference between places that pool tips among the staff and places that don't. An example of the pool:

You ring up a check of $500 and leave $100 tip for the good service. 33% is taken off the top to be split among the busboys and food runners, leaving $66. If the restaurant has 3 teams of captain and waiter, $66 is split 6 ways yielding $11, which becomes $8 after taxes, so the $100 tip you gave the nice captain actually puts $8 in his pocket.

[glenn]

There is quite a difference between places that pool tips among the staff and places that don't. An example of the pool:

You ring up a check of $500 and leave $100 tip for the good service. 33% is taken off the top to be split among the busboys and food runners, leaving $66. If the restaurant has 3 teams of captain and waiter, $66 is split 6 ways yielding $11, which becomes $8 after taxes, so the $100 tip you gave the nice captain actually puts $8 in his pocket.

So, what is your suggestion? Leave $100 for the "regular" service staff and another $25 or whatever for the captain? Which would calculate to 25% instead of 20%. I don't agree/disagree, just trying to understand the point. And if it is your opinion to leave $125, then are you saying that when there's a captain, one should tip more?

[Boris_A]

The restaurant should pay their staff properly so that they should not need to beg for tips.

Here in Switzerland, tip @14% is included in prices. A bit rounding up is common. Feel free to add 5% or more for exceptional good service. And feel free to complain about exceptional bad service.

Somehow, I'd expect the boss to select and educate his personnel by himself. It's not my task to this by tipping. And it's simply unfair to punish the service for bad kitchen perfomance or dirty service rooms or whatever.

[tommy]

Every place is different.

are you suggesting that people are supposed to know how each place handles this? are the acceptable percentages different from place to place or something like that? or is it really true that one tip amount is all any place really needs.

There is quite a difference between places that pool tips among the staff and places that don't. An example of the pool:

You ring up a check of $500 and leave $100 tip for the good service. 33% is taken off the top to be split among the busboys and food runners, leaving $66. If the restaurant has 3 teams of captain and waiter, $66 is split 6 ways yielding $11, which becomes $8 after taxes, so the $100 tip you gave the nice captain actually puts $8 in his pocket.

i'll go back to my question of "are we supposed to know how each place handles those 2 or 3 lines on the check for tips".

and from there, obviously, regardless of the answer, i still say that i can't be bothered. the restaurant is not getting any more out of me than any other restaurant would.

edit: i should add that i've seen the separate lines at places that aren't exactly temples of fine dining. i suppose i could see a need if for it if you're ordering 2k in wine, and don't feel that the busboys and food runners should get a huge percentage of the "wine bill". but even then, i don't think the customer should have to worry about it. it's certainly not the standard these days.

Edited January 27, 2004 by tommy (log)

[Kim WB]

Every place is different.

are you suggesting that people are supposed to know how each place handles this? are the acceptable percentages different from place to place or something like that? or is it really true that one tip amount is all any place really needs.

There is quite a difference between places that pool tips among the staff and places that don't. An example of the pool:

You ring up a check of $500 and leave $100 tip for the good service. 33% is taken off the top to be split among the busboys and food runners, leaving $66. If the restaurant has 3 teams of captain and waiter, $66 is split 6 ways yielding $11, which becomes $8 after taxes, so the $100 tip you gave the nice captain actually puts $8 in his pocket.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If every place is different, there is no way for the consumer to know what percentage is going where. And what about sommeliers, bartenders...certainly it can't be the responsibility of the customer to determine how the breakdown is managed.

One number, across both lines, let them figure it out. If the captain or maitre'd was involved in making it a uber-great evening ( ie, seat by the window, super attentive, accomodated special requests or occassions) then my husband will sometimes personally tip them in cash with his thanks for whatever they did that was above and beyond.

Sushi bar tipping is tricky. WE used to leave the entire amount witht eh check, but now we tip the chefs and waitstaff seperately..its a bit of a drag because you need to have cash on you.

[elivesay]

My boyfriend is a Captain at an upscale restaurant in Midtown Manhattan. The way I've seen him handle this when we've gone to nice restaurants is to leave one tip for the table, and if he feels the Captain was especially attentive and accomodating, he will tip him separately in cash as we say goodbye. When he works, he works as a team with two waiters, and they split the table tip evenly three ways (after the set aside for the busboys, bartenders, etc.). Sometimes he gets something handed to him separately as the customer leaves, sometimes not. If it is a regular customer, he will get a separate tip more often than not.

[Schneier]

I leave one tip and let them split it by whatever formula they have decided to use.

B