Atkins drop-out blues

[therdogg]

After three 1/2 days of induction the thought of eating another piece of meat or serving of eggs is truly nauseating. I mean, I'd rather fast and not eat at all today than eat bacon and eggs for breakfast (maybe _that's_ how this diet works!). I am a 5'5" woman who weighs 135 after two babies. My wedding day weight (3 yrs and 3 months ago) was 125 and I've had two babies since. I'd like to lose those ten pounds before I conceive again (uh, we want a really big family, and if I gain 5 pounds in between each that could mean 40+ pounds at the end of it all). More disturbing to me than the _weight_ is the waist- my waist size has increased several inches and I'm not sure if it's lax muscles or fat. So anyhoo, I'm wondering if those of you with modest weight-loss goals (5-15 pounds) were able to succeed on Atkins or if a less stingent regimen proved successful. I feel that since my goals are modest they aren't motivating enough to keep me on this regimen. I was originally very excited about this diet because I know I have sugar issues. Also, I am 25, have an HDL of 84 (!), LDL of 128 (which isn't as much a concern since I'm a woman of child-bearing age) and triglycerides of 29 mg/dL. My ratio of cholesterol/HDL is 2.6. I'm just wondering if there's an easier way, especially since my risk of heart disease according to the numbers is nearly nil.

Written guiltily over a small bowl of vanilla yogurt, raspberries, and walnuts.

[jackal10]

I'm also a laxed Atkins, but even so I now rarely eat outright starches like bread, potatoes or biscuits.

What works for me is just to eat one meal a day, so no lunch, and just coffee for breakfast. If I have the munchies mid day a small amount of strongly flavored food seems to work - an apple or cheese, or a pickled cucumber or onion. or all of them.

[Mottmott]

10 pounds!

Slightly less calorie intake + slightly higher calorie expenditure = weight loss.

See a nutritionist to develop a well balanced diet that will meet all your nutritional needs while slightly reducing your overall calorie intake. This is particularly important if you intend to keep on having children.

Set up an exercise program.

Oh - and keep in touch with your doctor about all this.

[Pickles]

I lost ten on the Fatkins diet and gained it all back because I missed my fruit and potatoes so much. I am now on a low fat, moderate protein (chicken and eggs lately, but I add in some fish and turkey once a week), relatively low WHITE refined carb diet (very little bread, pasta, rice...but SOME if I desire it) and lots of veg and salads and fresh pineapple. Weight's coming off and I feel great. I can also sneak in a few Malted Milk Balls (I love them...) and a dish of frozen yogurt per day and still lose.

[Susan in FL]

10 pounds!

Slightly less calorie intake + slightly higher calorie expenditure = weight loss.

See a nutritionist to develop a well balanced diet that will meet all your nutritional needs while slightly reducing your overall calorie intake. This is particularly important if you intend to keep on having children.

Set up an exercise program.

Oh - and keep in touch with your doctor about all this.

All good advice, but whenever I have needed to lose a few pounds, I have always been well enough informed to do without consulting a nutritionist or physician. With modest goals and a good knowledge of health and nutrition, that seems fine to me.

I know many people who have lost weight on Atkins and South Beach and the like, but I have never known anybody who kept the weight off. Besides, I love pasta, potatoes, and rice way too much to be able to survive a low carbohydrate diet! It's not the sweets that I would miss.

I've easily lost 10 pounds two or three times, once just recently. There's only one formula; what works is less calorie intake and more calorie expenditure. Exercise is surely the key for me.

What has been so much fun for me for the past few months is keeping track of calories and nutrition using the

DietPower program. You can get a free trial. When I'm maintaining my weight, I still enjoy logging in my foods so that I monitor nutrition values as well as calories. You log in your exercise, as well, which gives you a higher calorie intake allowance! And, if you are under your calorie allowance in a day, you can carry them over into the next day.

Has anybody else checked this out? It has lots of good features.

[Mottmott]

10 pounds!

Slightly less calorie intake + slightly higher calorie expenditure = weight loss.

See a nutritionist to develop a well balanced diet that will meet all your nutritional needs while slightly reducing your overall calorie intake. This is particularly important if you intend to keep on having children.

Set up an exercise program.

Oh - and keep in touch with your doctor about all this.

All good advice, but whenever I have needed to lose a few pounds, I have always been well enough informed to do without consulting a nutritionist or physician. With modest goals and a good knowledge of health and nutrition, that seems fine to me.

I know many people who have lost weight on Atkins and South Beach and the like, but I have never known anybody who kept the weight off. Besides, I love pasta, potatoes, and rice way too much to be able to survive a low carbohydrate diet! It's not the sweets that I would miss.

I've easily lost 10 pounds two or three times, once just recently. There's only one formula; what works is less calorie intake and more calorie expenditure. Exercise is surely the key for me.

What has been so much fun for me for the past few months is keeping track of calories and nutrition using the

DietPower program. You can get a free trial. When I'm maintaining my weight, I still enjoy logging in my foods so that I monitor nutrition values as well as calories. You log in your exercise, as well, which gives you a higher calorie intake allowance! And, if you are under your calorie allowance in a day, you can carry them over into the next day.

Has anybody else checked this out? It has lots of good features.

I agree with you in principle, but therrdog is a woman with small children planning to have still more children. She (and others of us) may or may not be as well informed as you. She may and her yet-to-be children may have nutritional needs that are particular to their situation and unlike yours or mine. To take an obvious example, her calcium and folic acid levels. I'm sure there are others.

I think we make a mistake to think that one size will fit all dieters and that we need to research what will be most beneficial to us individually. My generalizations about calories and exercise need to be tailored to a particular dieter's circumstances. The question is what calories to cut/reduce? What happens if we create some vaste imbalance nutritionally for our systems? Could we perhaps need help not so much to lose weight but to establish new eating patterns that are sustainable for us personally and not yo-yo our weight as you claim to have done?

Some of us may have medical conditions or - worse yet- be on the borderline unknowingly. For example, someone with an tendency towards blood sugar disorders may not know this, may not yet manifest symptoms, and may choose a diet that is totally inappropriate for that conditions. Ditto with cholesterol and other conditions. If unaware of these, we may chose to diet in ways that will worsen our general health rather than improve it.

Knowledge is important, and the program you mention sounds like a good help in a weight loss program. But that aids rather than substitutes for someone who can help establish your personal nutritional goals based on your personal condition, whether a nutritionist or physician.

Disclaimer: I'm neither a nutritionist or physician, just cautious.

[Susan in FL]

Very good points. Touche'!

Edited to add afterthought:

and not yo-yo our weight as you claim to have done

LOL about that... Putting on ten extra pounds twice in my life, and then losing them, is not what I would have thought of as yo-yo dieting! I guess one more time and I'll be a yo-yo-yo dieter. Edited January 25, 2004 by Susan in FL (log)

[Cusina]

Oh I've so been there therdogg! I have empathy, but you can do it. It is SO hard when your kids are little not to pick away at the things they eat (lots of fruit and bread if your kids are like mine). My kids grazed and ate constantly and I was too. I'm 5'11" and was 204 at my 2nd child's 6 week checkup and needless to say not happy with that! ugh. My husband was more like 320 (at 6'3") and we decided something had to change with our eating habits. We did a carb reduction diet by Rachel Heller called "The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet". The premise was balanced meal including carbs one meal a day, veggies and protein for the other two. Absolutely no snacking in between. I also added vitamin E, coenzyme Q10, and a multi (and a stool softener, yeep, sorry if that is TMI) to my diet. I did some yoga and chased after my kids, but didn't exercise a whole lot. My husband did, he kicked into high gear at the gym.

It was not easy, but we stuck to it for a year. I don't think I could have done that with Atkins. My husband lost 100 lbs. I lost 40. My son is 4 now and we are still at those weights.

I just needed the "rules" of the diet to keep me in check. My husband really did have a serious lifelong problem with carbs and this helped him alot. I also suggest you talk with your doctor, for both moral and nutritional support, especially if you will be breastfeeding and are thinking of conceiving again soon. You need your body and mind to be in good shape on a lot of levels when you are in baby mode.

When you do something like this, do it with your husband. I think that was key for us, doing the big weight loss together. We don't eat this way anymore, by the way, now we are all about balanced and healthy and setting a good pattern for our kids to grow on. Everything in moderation and lots of red wine to wash it down.

I don't know you well, obviously, so maybe this isn't for you. Just telling you what worked for us in a similar situation. Best of luck!

Oh and one more thing... check out cooking light magazine online their forums are pretty good. Not completely gourmet, but a very supportive community.

[Moopheus]

Here's some information from Cornell University on low-carb dieting:

Ask the Expert

Why feel guilty about yogurt, raspberries, and walnuts? Those are perfectly good foods.

As far as I can tell, no diet has ever done better than eat a balanced diet, don't eat too much junk, and get off your butt once in a while.

[therdogg]

Good advice- thanks! I am somewhat informed about nutrition (many folks consider us "pure"- we eat mostly unrefined grains and lots of beans, salads etc although my downfall is dessert) but this weight just keeps sticking. Cusina- I like the idea of doing this with somebody but my husband aka "Mr. Rail" is probably not the one. I definitely do graze off the kids' plates, but I do need to snack a bit- I get shaky and I'm a nursing mother. I could probably reduce carbs and especially desserts (I love baking) and exercise a bit more. It's freezing here in Michigan and it's been hard to haul my 2yo and 12mo out for a walk- our street never gets plowed so I'm sure my relatively sedentary lifestyle is contributing (but I get points for going x-country skiing yesterday!) I take a multi for folic acid etc but the other points are well taken. Pax!

[Dutch]

For what it's worth, a few things come to mind. The first is that with Atkins I have heard that the key is not caloric reduction; in fact you want to keep the "fire fueled". Many Atkins people not only "bulk up" with salads, but also eat cheeses.... Also, there are not usually immediate results with Atkins; Men often take 2 weeks to have any results and women even longer. Good luck!

[elivesay]

Within the past three years, I lost 20 pounds two different times on Atkins. Then I gained back every single pound (and more) when I went back to eating carbs. I finally gave up on Atkins and joined Weight Watchers three weeks ago. I've lost about 7 pounds so far. I'm going to try to avoid sounding like a WW commercial, but I like being able to eat absolutely anything I want, and the going-to-meetings thing and weighing in weekly seems to work for me. But after being on Atkins for so long, it's taking a bit of work to rewire my brain circuits. I've finally discovered the bottom line in my weightloss success is not so much WHAT I eat, but controlling the portions. Atkins doesn't really address the portion control very well, so when I would start eating carbs again, there was no net change in my diet from before Atkins, and the weight would pile right back on. And, oh, the carb binges I would have!

I think it makes it so much easier for me to deal with feeding the kids this way, as well. Pretty much anything I make for them, I can also eat. Last night we made pizza, and this morning pancakes. I ate some of both. Not in the way or in the amount I would have in the past, but at least this way I don't feel completely deprived.

And I should say I've not increased my activity level in the least. The NYC walking I do daily (approx. an hour) is all the activity I'm willing to do.

Good luck, therdogg. I'm sure you'll find the right balance.

[Susan in FL]

and we are still at those weights

That's good to hear, Cusina. Congrats!

Thanks for the link, Moopheus. Good info.

Good luck to therdogg and all who have weight reduction goals, or are doing whatever it takes to maintain good health.

[Katherine]

Why feel guilty about yogurt, raspberries, and walnuts? Those are perfectly good foods.

There's nothing to feel guilty about in any of these basic things, but when was the last time you ate just plain yogurt? Commercial yogurt has enough sugar added to it to make it as sweet as any dessert. A carbo loader's delight.

[Mottmott]

Therdogg, you say, "I definitely do graze off the kids' plates, but I do need to snack a bit- I get shaky and I'm a nursing mother"

So did I when my kids were young and it turned out I was hypoglycemic! Even though it may be very different for you, check it out because childbearing does all sorts of things to your system.

Very good points.  Touche'! 

Edited to add afterthought:

and not yo-yo our weight as you claim to have done

LOL about that... Putting on ten extra pounds twice in my life, and then losing them, is not what I would have thought of as yo-yo dieting! I guess one more time and I'll be a yo-yo-yo dieter.

It takes one to know one. You're probably just not old enough to fully qualify. I am and I have a 25 lb bounce.

[hjshorter]

I definitely do graze off the kids' plates, but I do need to snack a bit- I get shaky and I'm a nursing mother.

Is Atkins approved for nursing moms?

[therdogg]

I definitely do  graze off the kids' plates, but I do need to snack a bit- I get shaky and I'm a nursing mother.

Is Atkins approved for nursing moms?

No. He specifically states that the weight loss phases are not for nursing mothers. I believe, however, that this recommendation is based on a fallacy. Nursing mothers were once advised against losing any weight whatsoever because of the fear that as fat is reduced, contaminants would be released. As breastmilk bigwig Sandra Steingraber wrote in her book "Having Faith": "mothers concerned about breastmilk contamination are sometimes advised not to lose weight while nursing. The rationale here is that weight loss during lactation mobilizes fat-soluble contaminants, which are released into the bloodstream as fatis burned. It's a sensible hypothesis, but, once again, the data do not fully support it. One study did find a connection between weight loss and contaminant level. But others did not."

Also there is a belief that the quality of one's milk will be affected, but studies have shown that even in famine-ravaged countries women have to be severely malnourished before milk composition is affected.

Lalecheleague.org has more info on lactation and weight loss if you are interested.

[helenjp]

My kids are not as young as therdogg's, but I need plenty of energy to get through the day teaching and running round after kids and elderly parents in law -- and still face translation work at night. A friend put me on to Sugarbusters, saying that it helped her with energy and mood problems as well as weight loss.

I have been very lackadaisical the last few months, but I lost 40lbs the first 6-8 months. I've kept it off, and I want to lose a bit more.

The book is not very clear, and you could drive a truck through the inconsistencies here and there, especially as they've tried to please all nutritional camps...but the basic premise seems to be adequate protein, moderate fat, and whole food starches such as whole wheat or sweet potatoes in modest amounts. The only no-nos are sugar (which is allowed in small amounts in the latest edition of the book), a few high-sugar fruits, and the most easily digested starches, such as potatoes or white flour products -- starch content of vegetables is offset by their higher fiber content and longer digestion time, especially if not overcooked.

Because I've been eating from all food groups from the start, I've had to work out a balance that works for me -- what daily foods will allow me to lose weight, what will maintain my weight, etc. I've never had to buy anything I couldn't get at the local supermarket, or cook a separate meal for myself and my family. I've had heaps of energy and much better health all around.

There are online groups to help keep you on track, and some people combine this with Weight Watchers for better self-management -- they just choose whole food, low sugar options. Sugarbusters requires some thought in the initial stages (now it's just habit for me), and is easiest for people who like to cook. If you don't read the book carefully or check online, you could end up eating like Atkins plus wholewheat bread, but that's not what the book says!...REgarding the TMI post further up, I've never had those problems on Sugarbusters, because of the whole grains and ample fruit and veg.

[robyn]

After three 1/2 days of induction the thought of eating another piece of meat or serving of eggs is truly nauseating.  I mean, I'd rather fast and not eat at all today than eat bacon and eggs for breakfast (maybe _that's_ how this diet works!).  I am a 5'5" woman who weighs 135 after two babies.  My wedding day weight (3 yrs and 3 months ago) was 125 and I've had two babies since.  I'd like to lose those ten pounds before I conceive again (uh, we want a really big family, and if I gain 5 pounds in between each that could mean 40+ pounds at the end of it all).  More disturbing to me than the _weight_ is the waist- my waist size has increased several inches and I'm not sure if it's lax muscles or fat.  So anyhoo, I'm wondering if those of you with modest weight-loss goals (5-15 pounds) were able to succeed on Atkins or if a less stingent regimen proved successful.  I  feel that since my goals are modest they aren't motivating enough to keep me on this regimen.  I was originally very excited about this diet because I know I have sugar issues.  Also, I am 25, have an HDL of 84 (!), LDL of 128 (which isn't as much a concern since I'm a woman of child-bearing age) and triglycerides of 29 mg/dL.  My ratio of cholesterol/HDL is 2.6.  I'm just wondering if there's an easier way, especially since my risk of heart disease according to the numbers is nearly nil.

Written guiltily over a small bowl of vanilla yogurt, raspberries, and walnuts.

I am not fond of Atkins. It doesn't tend to work well with women - particularly those who only have a little weight to lose. And there's nothing to indicate to me that it's been tested scientifically in terms of a women's nutritional needs.

You gained 10 pounds in 3 years - and I think it would be a snap to take those pounds off in a year.

One pound = 3500 calories. Ten pounds = 35,000 calories. Assume 350 days in a year (you get some days off for good behavior ) - and you're talking about cutting out 100 calories a day for a year. What do you usually eat - and what would you give up? One small slice of toast a day? A coke? One container of yogurt? Whatever - look at what you eat - decide the thing to eliminate - and stick with it.

As for for your waist size - it think it's normal to thicken a bit around the middle after having kids. Best way to trim up a little is by exercise. If you have a local Y - take a look.

For what it's worth - I am not sure that any of this makes sense unless you're really unhappy about the way you look and feel. Robyn

P.S. I just read that you are currently nursing. Postpone the diet until you're finished (don't pig out - don't start a diet - eat normally).

Edited January 26, 2004 by robyn (log)

[jsolomon]

Hmm, I'm not a physician, but I have approaching 2 decades of experience dieting for various reasons, initially for sports, and currently because I drink too much beer. I've also been trained as a lactation consultant. But, I'm male. Please use a large grain of salt with this advice.

What you will probably have the most luck with is not worrying so much about your weight and attempt to change your concern to things like body composition/waist size. Weight and waist size are not perfectly correlated.

You have small children and plan on having more small children. I think you are a candidate to bring your children into your workout scheme. See if you can do 3 sets of 10 infant presses (lift the 12 mo. old over your head 10 times successively). I'll bet the kid'll like it. Infant curls will also work wonders. Also, keep up the XC skiing, and perhaps add 3 sets of 10 (or more) lunges. Do these 2+ times per week, and you should see improvement in your figure. Don't worry about the weight unless you are planning on being competitive in a weight-classed sport like wrestling.

Also, check out some of the tastier low-cal recipes we have on-line. Roasted cauliflower is a good item to look at. Grilled or roasted veggies would be great too.

But, I will also tell you to not worry too much. Increase your exercise a bit and decrease your portion size a bit, and life will be good. However, as long as you are nursing I would urge you to err more on the side of exercise, and when you are pregnant again, simply ask your MD or OB/GYN about some additional ideas.

[Katherine]

Getting back to the original issue of this thread, which is concerning the urge to drop out of Atkins due to being unable to stand the idea of eating more meat, cheese, and eggs, I have a theory that the problem is protein overload combined with the effects of insufficient fuel (the combined carbohydrates and fat you eat). I have experienced the same thing. It's enough to drive a person to a vegetarian diet for a couple of weeks.

[ExtraMSG]

Therdogg you sound like a bad candidate for Atkin's.

a) Like Robyn, I don't think it's a first choice for women. Women tend to desire calories from carbs, craving and binging on sweets, eg. (Men, otoh, tend to crave and binge on fats, such as burgers.)

b) You probably have an issue with low blood sugar. I imagine you've never really had a hard time keeping weight off until recently. I wouldn't be surprised if many people on this site, like me, kind of roll their eyes at 10 lbs. I can lose and gain 10 lbs in two days. Hell, I can pass 10 lbs after some of my eating trips. My wife is like you. She gets shaky easily (and damned irritable) if she doesn't eat. Changing her eating habits in such a drastic manner, like Atkins requires, would be like going through detox for an alcoholic.

Overall, there could be some advantages from a lifestyle change to Atkins. Who knows. I'm no nutritionist or expert, just someone who has tried various diets and found some that work for me and have spent a lot of time talking with people as they've dieted.

I believe strongly that one diet does not fit all and that you have to search for one that will work for you. I bet if you did a balanced diet watching out for large calorie items, avoiding the use of high sugar items like sweets, desserts, juice, soda, etc, and high fat items like chips, cheese, oils, hamburger, etc, you'd make a big difference.

Atkin's is a good diet and works for some people really well. It has a great ability to make people feel full with less food. But each person has to look at themself and discover what type of eater they are. What do they crave? What are their favorite foods? Do they have to eat regularly? Are you willing to make a lifestyle change long-term? Etc. Then find the appropriate diet.

[therdogg]

Getting back to the original issue of this thread, which is concerning the urge to drop out of Atkins due to being unable to stand the idea of eating more meat, cheese, and eggs, I have a theory that the problem is protein overload combined with the effects of insufficient fuel (the combined carbohydrates and fat you eat). I have experienced the same thing. It's enough to drive a person to a vegetarian diet for a couple of weeks.

It's a good theory... I found myself intensely craving a giant bowl of salad with peppers and beets and chickpeas and jicama. I just couldn't stand the diet- my mouth felt coated with fat all day. The thought of scrambled eggs disgusted me. I was just wondering if others had experienced the same.

[browniebaker]

About the waistline: I can empathize. But the awful truth is that your waistline will never be what it was. Blame it on childbearing and aging, both. I have had two children, one when I was 32 and one when I was 36. Both times, I diligently lost all the pregnancy weight until I was back to my pre-pregnancy 120 pounds (I'm 5' 4".). I also exercised the abdominal muscles. Even though I weighed the same amount as before, I just could never wear my belt at the same notch as before -- and never will again, I now acknowledge. My ob-gyn says the rib cage can expand during pregnancy to accomodate the growing baby, and the rib cage may never contract afterwards. Then there's the effect of aging: muscles lose tone and middles thicken.

My therapist said to throw out the old clothes that kept reminding me that my waistline wasn't the same.

Other than this, I just want say that calorie-reduction and exercise are the only things that worked for me. There's no magic to dieting. It's painful, yes, but you will feel better about yourself in the long run if you lose the weight. I applaud your determination to get your weight back down beofre the next pregnancy. Who says women have to keep a few pounds after each pregnancy? Good luck to you!

[Tam]

Therdogg, I have been following Atkins for about eight months now. I too am female (in my thirties), not lactating though. This is the best I have felt in years! I used to have the same "shakes" problem but not any more. I always felt like I had an undiagnosed hypoglycemic condition. It turns out that I was eating too many carbs (about 60% of every meal) and eating infrequently. Therefore, withthe carbs burning so quickly, my blood sugar would drop and I would crash. Now I never get the shakes or desire an afternoon nap due to the stable protein-based energy. I found the first couple of weeks the most difficult (even dreamt about bread in my third week). I am not a sugar-junkie but quite enjoy rice and breads. However, now that I feel so great, I don't even crave the carbs anymore. This has not been a diet for me, it's a necessary, satisfying lifestyle change. As others have mentioned, consulting with a physician might be of benefit to you in case of an underlying issue.