Suggestions in Philly?

[LJC]

In about 5 weeks I will be in Philly for a 3 night stay (Sun. - Wed.) and I am totally unfamiliar with the local dining (and lodging) scene. First, where would you suggest I stay? I found a some pretty good rates on line for the Lowes; is it nice? I will be at U of Penn from 9-5 with a two hr. lunch break so lunch recs close to the university would be great. I have no conflicts in the evening so anywhere you suggest will be fine (great I hope). I am not on a particular budget but I would like a mix of the best cheap dining and fine dining. I have no allergies and eat everything so all recs are welcomed.

Thanks!

[live2eat]

The University Sheraton and the Penn Tower are both on campus but may be more expensive than some places in the city. The Inn at Penn also on campus and is quite nice, but again, is expensive. Can't help you out too much with lodging, but searching online for anything in the city shouldn't be difficult.

As for lunch... New Deck Tavern on Sansom (close to 34th street) has decent burgers and won't hurt the wallet. The "Deck Burger" comes recommended (though last time I was there it wasn't as good? might be the day). Local favorite. Mad4Mex (right off Sansom) on the same block, usually has good lunchtime deals. Whatever you do, avoid the food court on Walnut (called Moravian Cafe). Waste of space and money. Also on Sansom is La Terrasse (sp?). Sit at the bar and ask for the bar menu. Nearly everything on their is quite worth the money. Notables include the cashew-crusted Tuna and the pretzel-batter chicken fingers.

If you want cheap food, I'd suggest one of the food/grease trucks that line Spruce Street or Kim's chinese food truck behind the gym on 37th/Walnut. Hemo's truck on 37th and Spruce on the south side of the street has a great grilled chicken. I haven't been on campus for a bit, so it might be there anymore, but Hemo's been there for years. Lunch can be had for about $3.50 depending on where you dine.

As for dinner I'll leave it up to the rest of the egulleteers to help you out. Philadelphia has an enormous number of fine dining spots in and around the city. If I start typing I won't stop for awhile...

[mrbigjas]

Lowe's is a very nice hotel, yes. It's downtown in a business-y area of town, but is also convenient to Chinatown, the Broad St. Subway (if you want to head to some of the South Philadelphia places people will undoubtedly recommend), the el & trolleys (for quick access to Penn), and whatnot. It's pretty centrally located.

Don't forget White Dog for lunch while at Penn. Also if you really have two hours you might want to head a little further west for lunch at one of the Thai places out around 40th St.

[LJC]

Thanks!

I will really have 2 hrs for lunch and I can prob. make it 21/2 if I had to. So any Thai suggestions are welcome. White Dog? What do I order?

I found that the University Hotels are higher priced than some of the downtown hotels. For example the Sheraton is more expensive than the Lowes. I have stayed in both Lowes and Sheraton properties and in the U.S. Lowes is typically nicer. Is the University Sheraton really nice? is the location so much better? Is the Lowes out of the way? mrbigjas, you made it sound like the Lowes location is great and convinent for both work at U Penn and dining around town. Unless I am told otherwise I think I will book the Lowes.

live2eat - thanks for the cheap eats recs. I will have to try anything referred to as a grease truck; I take it Hemo's is tops?

[Andrew Fenton]

With two, two and a half hours to eat, you can make it over to the Reading Terminal Market for lunch. Take a cab if you're short on time: it'll only run you about $6.

For lunch near Penn, I just today heard raves about the sloppy duck sandwich- like a sloppy joe, only duckier- at La Terrasse. I've never tried it, but my friend was amazed; and it's only $7 or thereabouts. The White Dog is excellent for all meals, but pace Jas, I'd stay away from most West Philly Thai food; it's unexceptional in my opinion. Most of the food trucks are underwhelming (plus you'll have to find a place to eat; no fun in winter), but there are a few pretty good ones, like Casablanca on Spruce St. between 36th and 37th.

You should also check out the recommendations on this thread. Most will still be up to date.

[Arey]

With two, two and a half hours to eat, you can make it over to the Reading Terminal Market for lunch. Take a cab if you're short on time: it'll only run you about $6.

That's assuming you can find a cab driver who speaks English. The time before last I went to Philadelphia, I got in a cab and said I wanted to to go to the Reading Terminal.

"You vant zee bus?" the cabbie asked.

"The Reading terminal" I said slowly and clearly.

"Oh, you vant airport?"

I quickly exited the cab, and a block away found one driven by a Jamaican. He knew where I wanted to go, and his English was much more euphonious than mine.

However, if I were in Philadelphia for only a day or two, I would try to get to the White Dog Cafe and either the Reading Terminal or the Italian Market. If you could fit in Susannah Foo's for lunch or dinner that would be nice.

Arey

God, I miss Philadelphia

[Mottmott]

No specific recommendations for a hotel, but on TV they've been advertising 2 nights for the price of 1. Check it out. The Phila hospitality center may have info. There was an online site mentioned, but I don't remember what it was. I'll post it if I see it again.

[sara]

Hi

I've been living in the Penn neighborhood for 5 yrs, and I would suggest only staying at the Penn Sheraton for immediate convenience. If you want to stay downtown, I strongly suggest the Latham, right near Rittenhouse Sq, and the 40 bus which goes right to Penn's campus. I've had guests get many good deals there.

As for lunch around Penn, no need to go very far.You can get a very good fancy sandwich at Gia Pronto (38th and Spruce near the Wawa) or a sloppy awesome deli sandwich a 10 min walk away at Koch's deli (43rd and Spruce, closed Wednesdays). Or, go over to La Terasse, or Penne (Walnut near 37th)--I'm not positive they're open for lunch tho.

If you want dinner near campus, definitely hit Rx at 45th and Spruce. You can pickup a bottle of wine at the liquor store on Market St, around 40th.

Have fun!

[herbacidal]

I think Loews is a very nice hotel with very nice rooms. If you got a rate that was pretty good, I'd consider it.

I also think it may be too far away, if for instance you may want to wander back to your hotel sometime during the 9-5.

Or if you want to go back there before going out for the night.

Or if you want to sleep a little later before going to your first class/workshop/etc., assuming you actually care about making it to that first class/workshop/etc.

Therefore, I'd probably consider the best price/amenities tradeoff you can find between the Sheraton, Inn at Penn, and Penn Tower.

I don't know nearly enough about the hotels in the University City area to comment further on those.

If you would rather stay downtown, the Latham is a wonderful boutique hotel conveniently located, as mentioned, on a busy bus route to Penn.

West Philadelphia lunch:

In the bottom of Houston Hall (NW corner 34th and Spruce), there is a food counter preparing made-to-order crepes that are quite good.

White Dog Cafe has very good American cuisine.

Mad4Mex does very respectable tex-Mex food.

New Deck Tavern does quite good bar food.

All three are located within a hundred yards of each other, White Dog and New Deck on Sansom just west of 34th and Mad4Mex on the small alley/street south of Sansom, right next to the aforementioned abominable food court Moravian Cafes.

RX and Penne (never been to the latter) are both good choices;

RX has superb inventive neighborhood cafe food, and Penne (in the Inn at Penn) makes their pasta at the counter in the dining room.

Side Note: What has replaced Palladium? University offices?

Edited January 23, 2004 by herbacidal (log)

[mrbigjas]

Side Note: What has replaced Palladium? University offices?

Dunno, but not a restaurant.

Mad4Mex does very respectable tex-Mex food.

Beg to differ.

Agreed with Andrew about the Terminal, and with Sara about the Italian Market, although it's a little tougher to get there, eat indoors, and get back to Penn easily, especially with the weather we've had lately..

[live2eat]

I'm going to have to second Sara's suggestion to go to Koch's. It's a little ways off campus (7-8 blocks or so) between 43rd and 44th on Locust (not Spruce). You'll catch it across the street from the CVS Pharmacy. Given your trip is five weeks away, I don't know if you'll remember this..

but Koch's is the greatest deli in West Philly (and some would claim all of Philadelphia). A veritable hole in the wall, it's been a longtime favorite of local residents, students, and cops (I always see one there). The guy who runs the place is a character (bob koch himself...he used to run it with his brother, just him now); slightly crass, enjoys off-color jokes, but always friendly. Their motto is "more meat, less bread" and you won't be disappointed with the amount of meat packed into one of his sandwiches.

The only problem with Koch's or one of the food trucks is that you're going to have to find a place to eat. If you go to one of food trucks you can easily enough walk into the student union building and enjoy your food. However, with Koch's you'll have to walk back to campus; there's no place to eat inside. Not a big deal for some, but it'll be a cold walk if weather hasn't improved by the time you come.

The aforementioned creperie in the student union building is also well worth your time. Enter the first floor and follow your nose.

In no particular order a list of locations to check out:

-Koch's Deli (43rd-44th and Locust)

-White Dog, New Deck Tavern, Mad4Mex, La Terrasse (all btw 34th-36th on Sansom). In front of the Law School.

-RX (Corner of 44th and Locust)

-Hemo's food truck, 37th and Spruce, south side of the street. Egyptian guy with a great grilled chicken sandwich.

There are more places but these are some of the more unique places to the campus area. Don't you dare go to the Chilis on 38th. But Abner's Cheesesteaks next to it isn't bad.

[herbacidal]

Mad4Mex does very respectable tex-Mex food.

Beg to differ.

How much? Should I just take out the "very"?

Is Billybob's still at 40th and Spruce?

[menton1]

At this time of year there is a deal with the Philly tourist bureau and major hotels where they give you two nights for the price of one. This should save you some money, and then the hotel will give you a discount card good for some dining discounts as well. The web site is: http://www.gophila.com

I second the rec for the White Dog, and right next door is Le Bus which would be great for lunch. (Great breads as well).

[gabe]

Is Billybob's still at 40th and Spruce?

Billybob's closed and has been replaced by a Copabanana. We have been once since it opened, and while the food was good (jerk chicken, "spanish" fries (onions & potatoes), and great garlicky spinach), the service was veeeerrrrrryyyyy slow. Perhaps things have improved, because it is usually pretty busy there.

[sara]

Hi

Sorry, but there's no Le Bus next to White Dog--there's only Buck's County Coffee. Not much for lunch there.

Herb, I was really surprised to hear you liked Mad4Mex's food, as I've never heard anyone ever say that who wasn't completely wasted on the margaritas. The food I've had there's been of the previously frozen nuked burrito sort, and it all tastes the same--terrible.

S

[stephenc]

Don't limit yourself to University city with a 2 hr lunch break.

Center City is small. You could go pretty much anywhere in center city.

[KatieLoeb]

LJC:

Hello! We look forward to hosting you in the City of Brotherly Love. You've gotten some great suggestions so far, so I'll just add my voice to those who've already recommended White Dog, Rx and Koch's Deli for West Philly haunts. All great suggestions. There's quite the hopping food truck scene on campus for down and dirty and super cheap eats. There used to be an awesome crepe truck in front of the gymnasium at 37th & Walnut if I recall correctly. Since I haven't been up on campus in the middle of the day in quite some time, someone who's up there will have to confirm for me. Anyone?

The hotel deal is called PhillyOvernight. Info about it is HERE. Not sure if it would work for you since you have to check in on a Friday or Saturday to get the deal. But perhaps if you wished to, you could catch an extra day of sightseeing and still only have to pay for three nights. The list of hotels is quite comprehensive so at least that should be helpful.

Please feel free to PM me if there's anything else I can help with. You're welcome to stop in at Rouge for a cocktail or a glass of wine and let me know if I'm doing my job well!

[katbert]

The crepe truck by the gym at 37th & walnut was run by the same people who do La Petite Cr/eperie in Houston Hall on Spruce Street. ISTR that they closed down the truck to concentrate on the storefront but I could be wrong. Be prepared for a 20-30min wait in Houston Hall if you're there during lunchtime student rush during a weekday.

I third the recs for La Terrasse (where I like the bar menu better than whitedog) & White Dog (at the bar: interesting beer, bad fries, good dessert, hot apple cider mixed drinks). New Deck does the usual bar food (giant cheese fries!) and it's crazy crowded & loud on Fridays. Copabanana is also a variation on a theme of margarita bar-- good but not particularly interesting. Thumbs down to Mad4Mex where I have unfortunately ended up a bunch of times in the last year, ack (with the exception of the quesadillas).

Koch's is a great great great deli, especially since it's <3 blocks away from me, but I'm not sure it would be worthwhile to haul up there for lunch & back in the cold. On the BYOB front, Rx is great (@45th & Spruce not 44th & locust), and I would also recommend Nan at 40th & Chestnut for well executed (AsiansomethingFrench?).

Also one of the more popular food trucks is MexiCali on Spruce betw 36 & 37th-- there's usually a big line by 11:45am. I think their food is middlingaverage good, and probably a lack of exposure to better Mexican food makes it seem outstanding. There's a second MexiCali truck up by 38th & Walnut, but Richard is at the Spruce St truck-- he has a Soup Nazi like demeanour. I know someone who went to Halloween as "the MexiCali guy".

[herbacidal]

The crepe truck by the gym at 37th & walnut was run by the same people who do La Petite Cr/eperie in Houston Hall on Spruce Street. ISTR that they closed down the truck to concentrate on the storefront but I could be wrong. Be prepared for a 20-30min wait in Houston Hall if you're there during lunchtime student rush during a weekday.

I agree about the wait. I waited 10 minutes, post-lunch rush.

I know they replaced the lunch truck with the counter.

I don't know the reasoning behind it.

What does ISTR mean?

From my vague memories of Mad4Mex food,

which are vaguer than my vague memories of Mad4Mex drinks,

I thought their food was okay. Edible.

Don't recall thinking it was microwave equivalent.

I never said I liked it.

The last time I ate there had to be at least 6 years ago.

I must be out of date.

[Andrew Fenton]

What does ISTR mean?

"I seem to recall."

As to Mad4Mex: my experiences there have all been pretty bad. As in "undercooked beans in my burrito" bad. It's a pretty decent place to drink- there are always tons of Penn undergrads there, doing that- and they have some okay bar food. I've had some decent nachos there; but you have to try pretty damn hard to screw up nachos.

[herbacidal]

Too many Internet acronyms.

LOL, ISTR, IIRC, LMAO, ROTFLMAO, IMHO, BTW is just about what I can remember right now.

[mrbigjas]

Don't forget my favorite: WTF?

[vigna]

I've enjoyed reading this thread, as I work at Penn and eat in the area all the time. To answer Herbicidal's query about the Palladium, today's DP (Penn's student newspaper) has an article saying that the Palladium area is likely to become classroom space. What a waste of a really beautiful room -- one of the most atmospheric spots on the Penn campus. In the first place, the Penn administration made a senseless decision to eliminate the Palladium, a nice if not great restaurant that had a bar area with a wonderful fireplace, an old-fashioned white tablecloth restaurant area, and a great outdoor terrace on Locust walk. One would think that this space could be used creatively to enhance the social and cultural atmosphere on campus. At this time, the space has been used to house meetings of various student and academic groups, but the special look of the room has been lost.

Menton1 did remember correctly that Le Bus used to be near the White Dog Cafe. Unfortunately, this great hang-out with homey soups, good casseroles, and delicious breads, closed about 5 years ago (ostensibly so the owners could concentrate on their bakery business -- they still have outlets on 18th St. and in the Reading Terminal Market, and possibly they still run a restaurant in Chestnut Hill).

My votes for best restaurants in the Penn campus area are White Dog Cafe and Penne. Both are good for lunch as well as dinner. White Dog has lots of organically grown produce and meats and prides itself on using local suppliers; a good selection of regional American specialties and wines by the glass. Penne has well prepared pastas and pseudo-Italian specialties -- food is generally tasty. Gia Pronto (sara's suggestion) is a nice new panini and salad shop, better suited to take-out business than for a sit down lunch (crowded and somewhat uncomfortable to eat-in) -- but really good salads and panini. I haven't been to Rx, but I've heard good things. I've enjoyed Nam (but haven't been there for awhile) and campus standbys have been Nara (formerly Genji) for OK japanese lunches, Beijing (good, very inexpensive, if not exciting) chinese lunches, and Tandoor (very good value for their lunch and dinner buffets of Indian standards).

Eating on the Penn campus every day, I am somewhat tired of the "trucks," although someone coming to the campus for the first time might be very interested in the variety of food. The one truck that serves consistently high quality food, in my opinion, is the vegetarian truck on Spruce and at "36th" in front of the Wistar Institute -- especially good are the hot soups. I second Katbert's comment on the Soup Nazi demeanor of the MexiCali truck guy on Spruce St., although his burrito creations are OK (just don't try to substitute anything in the order!)

For hotels, the cery convenient Sheraton University City may not be a great hotel, but with a Penn connection one can get a substantial discount -- LJC should ask his Penn contact to make a reservation at the discounted price. Seminar guests that I have put up at the Sheraton say it is pretty nice. I agree with others that suggest that a Center City hotel might offer a better location for exploring Philadelphia. With the discounts available from PhillyOvernight, I would consider the Sofitel, the Park Hyatt (the old Bellevue of Legionnaire's fame), the Radisson Warwick, Sheraton Rittenhouse Square, and Westin in Liberty Place -- all are well situated and (except for the Radisson) first class.

I hope LJC enjoys Philly!

[Andrew Fenton]

Lots of good information there, vigna. I completely agree with you about what a shame it is that the Palladium is being turned into classrooms. It was a beautiful room and a great place to go for a drink: either outside when the weather permitted, or by the fire in the winter. Here is a link to the Daily Pennsylvanian article you cited; note the sad picture of the space as it now exists, with carpets and fluorescent lights.

But I do have to take issue with one li'l point you make:

The one truck that serves consistently high quality food, in my opinion, is the vegetarian truck on Spruce and at "36th" in front of the Wistar Institute -- especially good are the hot soups.

My experience has been different: nothing there is horrible, but nothing is very good either. And worse, it all tastes more or less the same: as if they have a big vat of textured vegetable protein that they turn one day into "meatballs" and the next into "stroganoff." It's very popular, though; my guess is because it's the one place where vegetarians can order anything from the menu. But maybe I'm missing something- what do you like there?

Welcome to eGullet, by the way! (Hey, better late than never...)

[vigna]

The vegetarian truck is called "The Magic Carpet." I never order the "meatballs," tofu or seitan -- I agree these items do not look appetizing. And I dislike their polenta-based specials. But -- the soups are always good (lentil, chick pea, vegetable, etc.); the mixed salad with a falaffel ball or stuffed grape leaf is tasty; and their moroccan couscous special (about once per week) is very nice. By no means is the food exceptional -- but one can get a nutritious and tasty lunch for under $5.00.