live2eat

I bartend at the type of place where a good majority of drinks I make are martinis: Here's both what I was taught and what I've picked up from our customers... A "dry" martini, whether gin or vodka has a little bit of vermouth in it. Say half of your normal pour of 1:6-7. I've gotten a lot of orders for "extra dry" martinis in which case there is absolutely no vermouth added whatsover. A whisper isn't out of the question, but most people just don't want any vermouth. I've also noticed, when it's ordered extra dry, it's usually gin. If our customers want vodka straight up, they'll order straight up vodka, kinda like this : "grey goose citron, straight up, extra cold". I've yet to pour pure vodka as a "martini". And as a side note, I never, ever, shake clear martinis. Cosmos yes, tanq10 martinis, no.

Pity there are so many fraud for btending school out there. Gives the few with a good program a bad reputation. Out of a class of 11 or so people, at least four of us had jobs four days after the completion of the course. And there were some I didn't get to ask if they were employed, so I imagine the actual number is higher than four. One girl had multiple three job offers. None of those job offers were from catering companies. My duties are both for service bar and customers. My second shift was an extremely busy saturday night shift. We had a full restaurant and a fairly busy bar. In this case I tended the service bar (which was rather crazy) while the other bartender took the guests. On slower days I will be responsible for both customers and the service bar. The service bar was far busier than I expected it to be. There were times during the night where orders came in much faster than I could fill them; and I WAS moving fast. Part of the delay had to do with the fact that I was still figuring out where certain things were located (like if an uncommon sherry was ordered.."where do we keep the tio pepe?!?"), and just getting used to doing things in an efficient manner. At any given point I'd be chilling a couple martini glasses, filling cokes, pouring glasses of wine, and then finally stirring and straining the martinis. Then there were the servers standing there waiting (sometimes rather impatiently) for their orders to be filled. No pity on the new guy I tell ya. At one point a server remarked, "do you feel violated yet? 'cuz if you don't we haven't done our job yet..." No idea what he meant by that. I lost count, but there were at least 7 servers for dining and a few more for a private party dowstairs at the same time. This is all while the main bartender fielded a bar crowd that at times went 2-3 deep. One specific challenge so far has been learning the wines. We serve a lot of wine by the glass and at first it took awhile remembering which wine was what. Things like remembernig "1 gl La terre" on the ticket means to go for the cab bottle in the middle of the shelf. After a couple orders your hand goes immediately to the bottle, shaving a few seconds of looking around. When the ticket printer is going non-stop, those extra few seconds add up very very quickly. Part of the learning curve. Another challenge has been figuring out what sequence to fill the order. If you've got to make 2 cosmos, pour a couple glasses of wine, and a dewar's on the rocks, what to do first? At first I'd just do it in sequence, but then you realize that while you can fill the two martini glasses with ice and soda to chill, you can fill your rocks glass as well while the scoop is still in your hand and then pour the two wines, which takes little time. Then you pour what you need into the shaker for the cosmos, and while you're picking bottles off the rack, grab the dewars and finish off the rocks glass, etc.... something like that. Essentially making efficient use of your time and eliminating redundant motions... doing things in parallel sometimes shaves seconds off if you did everything serially... speed is really of the essence! I understand now why some bartenders tell their guests the blender is broken when pina coladas are ordered.. somtimes you just don't wanna mess with the blender when you've got 6 other drinks to make. Good thing we don't have a blender anyhow. There's definitely a learning curve but with a little repetition things get much faster and much more efficiently. I'm sure there's more, but that's it for now...

42feed. Welcome to egullet. I've heard your point time and time again. And once again, if you don't mind, I beg to disagree. Here's the way I see it: The Bartending ceritificate is just the prerequesite. Just like any other job description out there: must know how to make a martini, blah blah. On TOP of that are the personal characteristics one looks for.. reponsibility, diligence, whatever. Hence the interview process. Bartending school just says you can do the bare minimum requirements of the job. I would think you'd believe that. Nobody's saying bartending school is going to teach someone how to be responsible with money, be hard working, have a good memory, etc.... So are you telling me that if you interviewed a bartending school graduate and found them to be responsible, intelligent, and diligent, you wouldn't hire them simply because for some reason you claim that bartending school is a waste of time? Spend 15 minutes, call his or her references, peruse their resume if they have one, call former employers, and you should have a pretty good idea of that person's potential to perform the job. In the same way, a finance degree doesn't qualify you to be an investment banker. But often times (not always) it's a prerequesite. They're only hired when the interview process goes well. No, bartending school isn't the end all of getting a bt job. But it sure does give you the basic skills! Something gained is not a waste of time. As a side note, the bt school I attended was rather poor on the wine education. If I didn't have an interest in learning wine to begin with, I'd be at a severe disadvantage. I've still an enormous amount to learn about wine. But the majority of graduates are going to sports bars or clubs where a knowledge of the latest Australian Shiraz just isn't necessary.

You are all indeed welcome for a drink or three. However, the restaurant is actually in the suburbs. Restaurant Passerelle, right off the main line in Radnor. My weekday schedule will vary, but chances are you'll find me behind the bar at least on Sat eves. Cheers.

For those of you (i.e. beans and company) whose help I solicited a couple months back, here's an update as to how my bartending endeavors have gone: Against all good reason and advice about bartending school, I decided to enroll myself in a local (Philly) school. Advice on whether to go or not was pretty much split, whether from egulleters or webtenders, so I went ahead and did it. I must say, I do NOT regret it one bit. Due to some fortunate timing, some luck, and some initiative, two days after graduation I nabbed myself a job at a local fine dining restaurant. So for all who are considering bartending school, I'd first check out the schools in your area and see what kind of luck they have placing graduates, what kind of training they do, etc. If you're lucky enough to have a decent school, I'd go for it. Chances are there will be a manager somewhere willing to take an untested but eager applicant. Or maybe I just got extremely, extremely, lucky. Did bartending school prepare me to work this job other than being able to tell the recruiter I went to it? Undeniably YES. Everything from mixing drinks (duh), knowing top shelf liquors, washing glasses, cleaning the bar, registers, cutting fruit, state liquor laws, intro to wines/ports/cognac, knowing to check for stock, etc.... What bartending school will NOT prepare you for is how to handle people (role playing helps but not really), people/customer skills, how to multi-task, how to be diligent and aware, master all P.O.S. systems, etc... But then again, these are things you either have or don't have; you won't learn it in class. As the job continues I'll probably have more to say, but for now, I have to say that bartending school allowed me to hit the ground running, and if not running, at least jogging at a medium-pace So is bartending school a waste of time? If it's a decent school, NO. I found people often respond to this question with, "absolutely not, bartending schools are a waste of time", suggesting that having gone to ANY bartending school will have you laughed out of the bar. I agree, that might happen, but not always. Sometimes that bartending class will let you get your foot in the door to prove yourself. While there may be some truly awful schools who just want to take your money, there ARE good schools out there. Case in point: of the 10-11 people that were in our class, at least 5 of us had a job a week after "graduation". Those aren't bad numbers, especially for the slow season. In any case, I didn't post this to say that bartending schools are the answer, but just to say to give them a fair chance. Not all are created equal! Do some research, ask some questions, you should be able to tell if they're just out for your money or if they'll actually teach you something. Had I not decided to do school, I might have been barbacking for a year before I got anywhere near to mixing a martini. In any case, thanks to all for your help and advice. If curious, I will continue to post more thoughts as I gain more experience (the bad parts of the job, specifics of working in a high-class restaurant, etc). But if not, consider this the happy epilogue to my "is bartending school worth it" query back in 2003. Cheers.

I'm a bit surprised there haven't been more postings about restaurant week.... I had the opportunity to dine at The Prime Rib earlier this week. The RW menu is as follows: Starters: two salads (house/caesar) and tomato soup Entree: prime rib, filet mignon, salmon, or chicken Dessert: key lime pie, cheesecake, or creme brulee for dessert. Quite a deal considering the prime rib/filet itself is at least $30 on a normal night. I opted for a medium-rare prime rib and what arrived on my plate was a beautiful 16oz slab of well-marbled beef, still pink and dripping with juice. It was very VERY good. Our steaks were accompanied by string beans and mashed potatoes. Nothing on the cutting edge of the culinary arts, but there's something to be said about a simple well cooked steak. The salad was nothing to write home about and the desserts were good but not specatular. But if you're a steak lover, you may still be able to get at table tonight (Friday's prolly out). I saw more than a couple open tables when we were there earlier this week.

I'm going to have to second Sara's suggestion to go to Koch's. It's a little ways off campus (7-8 blocks or so) between 43rd and 44th on Locust (not Spruce). You'll catch it across the street from the CVS Pharmacy. Given your trip is five weeks away, I don't know if you'll remember this.. but Koch's is the greatest deli in West Philly (and some would claim all of Philadelphia). A veritable hole in the wall, it's been a longtime favorite of local residents, students, and cops (I always see one there). The guy who runs the place is a character (bob koch himself...he used to run it with his brother, just him now); slightly crass, enjoys off-color jokes, but always friendly. Their motto is "more meat, less bread" and you won't be disappointed with the amount of meat packed into one of his sandwiches. The only problem with Koch's or one of the food trucks is that you're going to have to find a place to eat. If you go to one of food trucks you can easily enough walk into the student union building and enjoy your food. However, with Koch's you'll have to walk back to campus; there's no place to eat inside. Not a big deal for some, but it'll be a cold walk if weather hasn't improved by the time you come. The aforementioned creperie in the student union building is also well worth your time. Enter the first floor and follow your nose. In no particular order a list of locations to check out: -Koch's Deli (43rd-44th and Locust) -White Dog, New Deck Tavern, Mad4Mex, La Terrasse (all btw 34th-36th on Sansom). In front of the Law School. -RX (Corner of 44th and Locust) -Hemo's food truck, 37th and Spruce, south side of the street. Egyptian guy with a great grilled chicken sandwich. There are more places but these are some of the more unique places to the campus area. Don't you dare go to the Chilis on 38th. But Abner's Cheesesteaks next to it isn't bad.

The University Sheraton and the Penn Tower are both on campus but may be more expensive than some places in the city. The Inn at Penn also on campus and is quite nice, but again, is expensive. Can't help you out too much with lodging, but searching online for anything in the city shouldn't be difficult. As for lunch... New Deck Tavern on Sansom (close to 34th street) has decent burgers and won't hurt the wallet. The "Deck Burger" comes recommended (though last time I was there it wasn't as good? might be the day). Local favorite. Mad4Mex (right off Sansom) on the same block, usually has good lunchtime deals. Whatever you do, avoid the food court on Walnut (called Moravian Cafe). Waste of space and money. Also on Sansom is La Terrasse (sp?). Sit at the bar and ask for the bar menu. Nearly everything on their is quite worth the money. Notables include the cashew-crusted Tuna and the pretzel-batter chicken fingers. If you want cheap food, I'd suggest one of the food/grease trucks that line Spruce Street or Kim's chinese food truck behind the gym on 37th/Walnut. Hemo's truck on 37th and Spruce on the south side of the street has a great grilled chicken. I haven't been on campus for a bit, so it might be there anymore, but Hemo's been there for years. Lunch can be had for about $3.50 depending on where you dine. As for dinner I'll leave it up to the rest of the egulleteers to help you out. Philadelphia has an enormous number of fine dining spots in and around the city. If I start typing I won't stop for awhile...

While wine seems a natural companion to a lot of food, it (for some reason) never occured to me to have wine with sashimi. Anybody have a favorite wine or three that they like with their sashimi? Sushi too....

That's not hard to believe. Vancouver BC has some of the best chinese food in North America. Not to say SF is poor (it is indeed excellent), but a natural next step would be north to Vancouver (which some have nicknamed "Hongcouver" ), especially if you're on the west coast and you seem to byo as this group seems to do. On a slightly related note, would anyone care to opine on Japanese cuisine and Western wine pairings?

My $.02... I'll second Brasserie Perrier suggestion. It will serve nicely for a corporate dinner and the food is good but not so cutting edge that a diverse group would be hard pressed to find something they liked. You can't really go wrong with one of Georges Perrier's restaurants. Think of it as a less formal Le Bec. Moshulu is also an excellent choice. The atmosphere is well done but subtle and the waitstaff is excellent. I'd suggest fish over beef if you dine there. Capital grill is a good corporate-type place but it might be slightly noisy depending on the night and where you sit. As a side note, the filet mignon (done medium rare) was excellent. So were the mashed potatoes. You can make arrangements online for all three places at www.opentable.com. I've found it to be rather convenient when you want to do a quick search for availablity.

Han Chon on 5th street for sullungtang (beef bone noodle soup). It's quite good and inexpensive. I can't speak for their other dishes, but their sullungtang is excellent. Pastoral in Center City (a few blocks east from Kimmel Center) is also excellent.

I'll second the Genmaicha. Green tea with roasted brown rice. It's served at a lot of sushi restaurants. And now from the teapress at my desk. Chinese Jasmine tea is excellent as well. Loose tea over bagged, anyday.

To be honest, it's not entirely about the money. Call it an irrational fascination with alcohol, "mixology", wine/cocktails, and the culture that goes along with it. I'm located in Philadelphia and have been taken up by the rather vibrant (and delicious) restaurant scene here. I would love to bartend at any number of places here and am willing to start at the bottom to get there. Even if that means some shifts as an unpaid barback (they get paid $5-6/hr in this town). I figure I have little to lose. I'm also willing to deal with taking out 40 lb leaky trash bags and deal with irate customers. I've done my share of physical labor. Perhaps the final picture isn't as rosy as I've imagined (and I've already taken into acct things you've described here and on other forums), but at the very least, I can chalk it up to a world of experience in something the corporate world won't take me. I imagine you've managed to learn an enormous amount, not just about alcohol, but about people in your years behind the bar. So if I can do it part-time on the side, why not? It won't be easy, but I'm a firm believer of being able to find the exceptions. One summer night I once walked into this mid-range/slightly pricey restaurant and stopped at the bar while waiting. On a whim I asked the bartender (young female college student) how she got her job. She said she had gone to bartending school, walked in, and asked for a job. To which the manager responsed, "when can you start?". Granted, it was more of a service type bar than anything else, but I'm willing to start there. Another friend walked into one of Philly's fine-dining establishments and asked for a job as a line chef. No experience, no nothing. The chef looked her up and down, said, "I like the way you move" and next thing she knew, she had a knife in her hands. So it may take weeks of pounding the pavement and calling in contacts in the restaurant biz, or it may take a "hello, here's my resume". I'm not afraid of a bit of hard work and the non-monetary payoffs seem to be incalcuable. At worst, I'll have learned the best way to make a martini. At best, it could be a lucrative side career and a pratical outlet for a personal interest. I'll post an update on how it goes in a couple months. =) And if anyone in the Philly area wants to give a young, goodlooking, and hardworking guy a chance to prove his worth, lemme know.

Sorry if I'm beating on a dead horse, but the flogging's going to continue for just a bit more.... Thanks to all for your input.... Especially the posts about the less pleasant aspects of the job; it paints a much more realistic picture of what it's like, and I'd rather have that than the rosy version. However, my original question is still partially unanswered. I think most would agree at this point that bartending school isn't anywhere near a substitute for experience nor will it prepare one to hit the ground running (or get hired). But is there any worth to bartending school? At all? Does it in any way/shape/form help you learn the trade quicker? All other things being equal, does a barback who's gone to bartending school have a faster learning curve than the one who doesn't?

Not at all. College buffet is still serving the same pig-fodder they've been serving for years in the same location. New Number One is located on 4251 Walnut Street. Close enough to center city to deliver but not something you can walk to if you live in Cc. This ain't no Sang Kee though (who's former chef is now at Pagoda). Cheaper, but still good. On an unrelated note... Susanna Foo = damn expensive chinese takeout...

College Buffet is the biggest travesty to so-called "Chinese Food" ever. For those of you who have had the most unfortunate experience of eating there, you know what I mean. New #1 is the name. Like "New Number One". Go figure. Cheap and greasy but a step above the standard. Pagoda does indeed do some wonderful things with noodles. Pity about the delivery radius.

New #1 in West Philadelphia. =)

For the record, I believe Washington State requires a licence to bartend (thanks to posts on webtender), but that's more of a safety-type "wash your hands before you stick it into the ice bucket" kind of license. I've also read through Miss Charming's pages, no need to rehash/repost. The only fly in my ointment from her page seems to be people who resent having to train you, even tho you might learn well and learn quickly. The above argument still stands. =p

Beans, thanks for your reply! You seem to be a wealth of knowledge (no sarcasm intended). I believe I've caught a post or two of yours on webtender. I see your point. But hear me out... What I essentially meant to say is that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of experience that the server has that a new guy cannot learn. What's stocked/what's not, where things go, how to take out the garbage/wipe the counter. This, and other things, can be learned fairly quickly. No, he won't have the rapport with your existing customers or any other site-specific knowledge, I agree. But nobody seems to make the distinction (when talking about new hires) between skills/knowledge (tangible stuff), vs. just how good of a worker is to begin with. My point is that the reason bars like to hire with experience is not only because they don't have to train (how REALLY bad could the training be? you said five days? maybe a week? two?) them on the specifics, but more so because the experience has said they're a decent employee. Your horror story with the two schmucks illustrates my point: those two kids were schmucks. Good-looking/intelligent as they may have been, they were fully incapable of being decent employees (much less bartenders). Had they taken any other job, they most likely would failed at it as well. Remembering to take out the trash, re-stock, fill the ice-bucket, deal with screaming masses of people, these are things they should have been able to do (maybe not the screaming masses, but it doesn't take bartending to be able to do that), whether or not they knew how to mix a drink. It just seems that the hospitality industry has had a difficult time finding quality people (and bartending being one of those positions where quality people are not only helpful but required), and so they will only hire those with experience; because that prior experience has proven their worth as an employee. My contention (no I don't give up easily): Can't bartending be learned on the job by a qualified (in terms of people skills/responsibility/work ethic) candidate, regardless of experience, in a relatively short amount of time? In other words, bartending requires a specific skill set... why is it so difficult for someone with the right skills to learn on the job? I'm not presumptious enough to declare I have those skills. Nor do I have the gall to state that bartenders with 10 years of experience under their belt aren't any better than those with few. But when it comes down to "can he do a decent job?", isn't it more about the skills the employee has than anything else? Experience only demonstrates he/she has them and removes the learning curve. But given an employer who might be convinced to train (which is hard to find, I admit), isn't the rest just up to the quality of the candidate? At this point, I've no problem with starting as a barback. But I'm tired of stories of incompetent people who try bartending and fail and experienced hands declaring that it's because they didn't have experience. Might it be simply because those people were simply incompetent? looking fowards to the replies (while remaining doggedly optimistic and slightly stubborn). live2eat.

Thanks to all for your helpful replies! But by all means, don't stop there. If anyone else reading this would care to opine/rant/encourage/discourage, please continue. But the little research I've done has yielded this: Nobody wants to take the risk and hire some random person off the street waiving that oft mentioned "certificate" (which really has no official recognition). Most managers seem to find a lot of these people flaky and without the ability to perform their jobs well. And so, these managers would much rather hire from within from the serving staff or someone who's put in their "due time" as a barback. Because then they'll have seen that the server or barback is dependable and has thus mitigated the risk of hiring some flake off the street. But here's my question: Is the server who has now moved up to behind the bar is no more (or less) skilled in the actual trade of bartending (and in terms of mixology) than the fresh-faced bartending school grad? They may have picked up how to make a drink or three (or more!), but so has the b-school grad. Neither has had time behind the bar. The only difference is that the server has proven themselves to be a worthy and dependable <i>employee</i>, while the guy waving the certificate hasn't. NEITHER has experience. I'm getting the impression that the "read between the lines" message about getting hired in many places has naught to do with experience, but to do with one's dependability. 'Cuz hell, the guy you moved from the floor to the behind the bar can't pour a drink or replace a keg any better than anyone else. You <i>still gotta teach the guy/girl </i> how to do the job. Am I completely off, or does this make sense to you all too? With that said, how impossible is it for someone who's got a resume with enough experience (though not necessairly in hosp) in customer service and other jobs that have required responsibility to be hired? Especially if you don't have to teach him how to make a martini or cut the limes the right way? Feel free to enlighten me and/or burst my bubble.... for the record, I'm a young working professional looking to bartend as a side gig. thanks in advance.

I've heard mixed reviews from friends who have taken it (and those who haven't) about the value of bartending school. Is it worth it? Is it not? Does it depend on the school or are they all equally worthless? Any comments would be appreciated.

I'd like to second (third/fouth/whatever) any opinions on Mondo Gelato in Vancouver. Half the price of Gelatimo (or any other Gelato place I've been to in the States), and smoother/more flavorful. Try the black sesame if you're into something new. Gelato alone might not be worth the 2hr drive from Seattle proper to downtown Vancouver, but stop by at one of the many sushi places on Robson and follow it up with Mondo Gelato.

My 2cents. Went there today (sat) for brunch, sat at the bar. Called ahead an hour or two before for reservations though it wasn't that packed. We had the Challah french toast with golden beets + mixed fruit + other stuff I cannot remember the waffles with pine nuts (and other stuff, my memory fails me). The food was good, if a bit experimental. I'd avoid it if you're into more "standard" fare. Service guys were great, didn't meet Carmen... I wasn't "wowed" by the food, but I'd go there again.