THE BEST: "Non-Fancy" NYC Restaurants

[Pan]

In a different thread, Fat Guy had the following suggestion:

I wonder if it might make sense, given that there is a small set of "eGullet favorites," to develop a top-10 or top-20 list of places -- the must-visit NY restaurants in the non-fancy category, with contact info and brief descriptions -- that we can keep somewhere and occasionally update.

I responded that:

Katz's should probably top the list, and I think Grand Sichuan is a natural, too. Perhaps we should debate the rest of the list in a new thread.

So here's the thread. Please offer your suggestions.

[Fat Guy]

This is going to be great fun. The thing that immediately comes to mind is that we need to set an extremely high standard for this list. These have to be the places that are consistently excellent across the range of the menu: the places we'd recommend to an out-of-towner who may only get one shot in a decade to visit.

Katz's and Grand Sichuan are very strong consensus candidates for such a list. Other contenders I'll throw into the ring: Gray's Papaya, Pearl Oyster Bar, Kang Suh, the Soup Nazi, Artisanal, Veniero's, Bread Bar at Tabla, Honmura An, NY Noodle Town, New Green Bo, the original Patsy's pizzeria, the Craft offshoots (bar and 'wich), 'ino, Balthazar/Pastis/Schiller's, Norma's, Otto/Esca/Lupa. In the boroughs, I'd add Sripraphai, DiFara's, and Luger's though it's probably outside the price range we're talking about.

[MRX]

This will actually grow as I have been talking about putting together a list of the best meals in NYC for under $10 - I don't have the time right now, but there are some unexpected beauts!

[glenn]

Eisenberg's Sandwich Shop (not Shoppe!) between 22nd and 23rd St. on 5th Ave -- this place rarely gets a mention, and maybe that's a good thing cuz it's usually too crowded as it is. The place must be 75 years old. It's cramped and LOUD, especially during lunch. Its unique New Yawkish character is derived not only from the food, but by its antiquated lunch counter as well as ancient short order cooks who speak the cryptic language of soda jerks. The attraction is the sandwiches - egg, tuna and chicken salads washed down with an authentic egg cream. Sandwich, fries and egg cream = about $10.

[Fat Guy]

That reminds me of the Italian deli angle: Melampo. I really need to get there more often.

Oh, and Charles for fried chicken.

[MichaelZ]

I'd like to add Kang Suh to the list. The combination of the barbeque menu, real charcoal fires and the predominantly Korean crowd makes it a unique experience. It's not perfect, particularly the way in which they sometimes not so subtly rush you, but it certainly is worthwhile without being "fancy".

[TrishCT]

As a visitor who would greatly benefit from this, perhaps you could

compile two lists... "Non Fancy" and "$10.00 or under" ?

[Fat Guy]

I think the way to do it, Trish, would be to figure out a format for the list that allows for price range to be listed. Ditto for ethnicity/cuisine type. Then it becomes easy to sort the list alphabetically, by price, or by type of food served.

[TrishCT]

I think the way to do it, Trish, would be to figure out a format for the list that allows for price range to be listed. Ditto for ethnicity/cuisine type. Then it becomes easy to sort the list alphabetically, by price, or by type of food served.

It would help because really you can't compare a Gray Papaya hot dog to a meal at Artisanal..... Both are good but worlds apart. Thanks

[Fat Guy]

Well, you could get one piece of cheese!

[TrishCT]

Well, you could get one piece of cheese!

Categorizing by price will eliminate discussions of Soup Nazi's Jambalaya v. Artisanal's Stilton Fondue.... Just some food for thought....

[Fat Guy]

This reminds me of Chris Rock's "one rib" scene in I'm Gonna Git You Sucka.

[alacarte]

I can't see this group reaching a consensus on the top 10, 20, 25 places in NY.

Is there a way to conduct a poll to make this a more objective process? i.e. we could enter our "picks" into some kind of voting tool (or send them to one co-ordinator to tally up). I think otherwise we're all gonna be bickering about the finer points of this place vs. that place.

I like the idea of being able to sort by ethnicity & price.

[Bux]

I can't see this group reaching a consensus on the top 10, 20, 25 places in NY.

I think you're going to have a hard time agreeing on the definition of "non-fancy." Daniel Boulud intended his Cafe Boulud to be the non-fancy alternative to Daniel, where locals could come in for dinner in jeans and a sweater. Many of the "locals" sleep in pajamas and a tie, or so I am led to believe, but it's still the non-fancy alternative for some, yet probably fairly high up in the very fancy category overall for Manhattan. Mix is the non-fancy alternative to AD/NY, but probably way too fancy for this list. Lugar's price is probably too fancy, even if it has sawdust on the floor.

The tavern room at Gramercy Tavern is certainly the non-fancy side of a restaurant that doesn't have a dress code in the "fancy" side. I've rarely walked out of there without feeling I've had a bargain meal. It is nevertheless, fancier than Katz's where a sandwich will cost more than an appetizer at the tavern. There are restaurants in Chinatown with rather nice atmospheres and attentive service, that are still far less expensive than many informal midtown restaurants, if not as inexpensive as some dive restaurants in Chinatown.

I think any attempt at a poll is looking for disaster. Generally speaking I'd rather read one intelligently written rave than look at a compliation of scores anyway.

[ellenesk]

Having just moved north of 86th street on the West side, we have a host of "non fancy", cheap and cheerful, options under $10.

On my short list is:

El Malecon for dominican Great Pollo alla brasa, chicarrones al pollo, and mofongo. For $4.00 at breakfast you get, eggs, mangy(mashed plantains with sauteed onions) and some great cafe con leche.

Pampa for steak

Sipan for peruvian

Noche for mexican

Indus Valley(great new indian). Good lunch deals for about $7.00

[Fat Guy]

I can't see this group reaching a consensus on the top 10, 20, 25 places in NY.

I think there's a consensus regarding many of the places on that list. The rest will, I think, require discussion and debate. But I think voting in this context would be a mistake. What we need are reasons, not Zagat.

[Fat Guy]

I think you're going to have a hard time agreeing on the definition of "non-fancy."

I think the simplest thing would be to set a price and that's that.

[Bux]

What we need are reasons, not Zagat.

Agreed, I'd rather read one intelligently written rave than look at a compliation of scores anyway.

[Pan]

I feel that New York Noodletown slipped some time ago and is still good but questionable for this list. I want Yeah Shanghai Deluxe on it though. I agree on Kang Suh. If we're including Flushing, a bunch of other places would get included, such as the Kissena Blvd. branch of Woo Chon, Restaurant Malaysia, and Sichuan Dynasty, but honestly, how many visitors are going to go to Flushing?

Jackson Diner should be considered, too, in my opinion, and we could also discuss Madras Cafe, a longtime favorite of mine.

I frankly am surprised to see over-$50 restaurants being proposed for this list. I'd propose a $30s for dinner without wine as an upper limit.

If we are considering restaurants in the "moderate" price range, though, let's discuss Il Bagatto. Yes, no?

[bilrus]

Is there a way to conduct a poll to make this a more objective process? i.e. we could enter our "picks" into some kind of voting tool (or send them to one co-ordinator to tally up).

Isn't that called Zagat's?

Edit - I guess I should have kept reading. I should know that I can't ever have an origianl thought around here.

Edited January 22, 2004 by bilrus (log)

[TrishCT]

Not to sound Clintonian... But I guess, what is the definition of "non-fancy?"

[slkinsey]

I like Pan's criteria of <$30 without wine per person. Nothing in NYC can be "fancy" for 30 bucks.

[glenn]

I strongly disagree with $30. With a glass of wine, tax and tip, that's about $100 for 2. Without the wine, it's $75 for 2. I don't mean this in any sort of offensive way, just an observation, but this board has mostly leaned towards discussing the more expensive places. I guess $30 seems cheap from that perspective. There are plenty of places that are a lot cheaper and worthy of being on a best of list, chinatown joints being a prime example.

[Pan]

I strongly disagree with $30. With a glass of wine, tax and tip, that's about $100 for 2.

Which is possible at Il Bagatto, which is surely not a fancy restaurant, and Lavagna, which arguably is a bit fancy. It's possible to pay up to around $120 for two at Lavagna and probably a bit less at Il Bagatto, depending on how many cocktails you had before dinner, etc. But it's also possible to pay around $30/person without wine. To be honest, though, it's easier to break $100 at those two places if you're sharing a whole bottle of wine, not buying wines by the glass.

I proposed the limit of the $30s without wine with the idea that everything above that is too high to be the same category. A "non-fancy" restaurant that costs $90 a head is just an expensive place that doesn't require jackets. I don't object to a lower limit, but I'd make two observations:

(1) If you figure wine in, problems occur immediately because wines can cost more than the total cost of the food.

(2) If we set the limit at $25 including wine, tax, and tip, we're discussing decidedly cheap restaurants, not just "non-fancy" ones.

[glenn]

(2) If we set the limit at $25 including wine, tax, and tip, we're discussing decidedly cheap restaurants, not just "non-fancy" ones.

That's what I thought we were talking about, that is, cheap eats. Maybe I misunderstood. Personally, I'd prefer to see what kind of an eclectic list we all can come up with of cheapo restaurants. And I would confine it to Manhattan; otherwise the list would be limitless. And after we're done with such a list, then move on to a list of "non-fancy" places. :-)) I also thought we were only including quintessential NY places. Last, I agree with previous comments that anyone that recommends a place needs to write a few sentences or so about why the place should be included. Anyway, just my worthless opinions.