THE BEST: "Non-Fancy" NYC Restaurants

[Al_Dente]

Where exactly is the soup nazi anyway? I'll be in NYC this weekend and given the weather, some killer soup would hit the spot.

[kurl]

It's on 55th by 8th, IIRC. And I'm not sure if it's open weekends -- I remember their having really limited open hours.

It's called "Al's Soup Kitchen International," by the way.

[SobaAddict70]

There are many good restaurants in Manhattan that serve great food for $30 a head, and I am assuming you're talking about three courses (appetizer, main and dessert) without wine, tax or tip, but I would be hard pressed to name more than five or six that fit that description.

If you were to extend that to about $40 to $50 a head, that might be a more apt or accomodating category. It's possible to eat well at $30 a head, but you're not going to have a very extensive list, of the sort of standards that people have on eGullet anyway.

For instance, Home (the restaurant) on Cornelia Street is a prime example of a restaurant where, you can have a great meal at about $35 to $45 a head without wine but including tax and tip. How do I know? Because I've done it several times, not to mention I don't drink. Amma is another, as is probably Otto (although that might be a stretch).

As it is, I think that setting the bar at $25 to $30 would be doing many of these places a great disservice.

Soba

[Pan]

There are many good restaurants in Manhattan that serve great food for $30 a head, and I am assuming you're talking about three courses (appetizer, main and dessert) without wine, tax or tip

More or less, but not in Chinese restaurants, for example. And Katz's is basically just a pastrami sandwich with a soft drink and cole slaw, though I've had cake there once and liked it.

You'd be hard pressed to name more than five or six that fit that description? You mean exactly that description, with the three courses? And are you including Outer Boroughs or not?

Katz's

Grand Sichuan

Congee Village

Kangsuh

Cho Dang Gol

Madras Cafe

DiFara's

Sripraphai

Restaurant Malaysia

Woo Chon's Kissena Blvd. location

Sichuan Dynasty

That's 11, with one in Brooklyn and 4 in Queens. Let's argue about these suggestions.

[tommy]

It's on 55th by 8th, IIRC. And I'm not sure if it's open weekends -- I remember their having really limited open hours.

It's called "Al's Soup Kitchen International," by the way.

is it not gone?

[Amuse Bouche]

I think it's not too difficult to find really cheap eats -- Mamoun's Falafel, that little taqueria on 10th Avenue that Eric Asimov wrote up this summer (I went there during the bar exam and it was truly, truly excellent), Fried Dumpling on Allen, Otafuku, etc. I guess those are all takeout though, and maybe that should have its own category.

I'm interested in those mid-level places that are a great value -- Les Halles for brunch ($16 can get you fantastic French Onion soup and a duck confit salad with the best "home fries" I've ever eaten), The $30 prix-fixe at Trio, Boca Chica in the East Village, Le Zoccole in the EV. What I like to think of as Friday Night Restaurants.

For the record, I don't think Artisanal should qualify in the best of category. I think what they've done with cheese is truly admirable, and it is the best place in town for cheese. But the non cheese items are really nothing special. The soupe de poisson should be served with cheese (it has been every time I've eaten it in France) yet for some reason, at Artisanal, it's not. Very strange.

[Moopheus]

Eisenberg's Sandwich Shop (not Shoppe!) between 22nd and 23rd St. on 5th Ave -- this place rarely gets a mention, and maybe that's a good thing cuz it's usually too crowded as it is.

Eisenberg's is okay but the sandwiches at Junior's are better--I've had really excellent egg salad and tuna sandwiches there, and the egg creams are pretty good too.

Some of the best falafel I've had in New York has been off a street cart. Now that's good cheap eats!

[Pan]

Welcome, Amuse Bouche!

Yeah, Mamoun's is a worthwhile place for felafel and shawarma.

Wow, Boca Chica, that's a name from the past for me! I haven't been there since they canned some musician friends of mine a long time ago. I always thought it was a bit upscale for the style of food they served, but I always enjoyed the food. But not everyone agreed, and a lot of people felt that it was overrated and overpriced. I remember a dessert of flambeed platanos maduros with chocolate sauce that was delicious and slightly decadent. So, the place is still worthwhile in your opinion?

A place that used to be near there that I miss is Louisiana...

[robyn]

s

There are many good restaurants in Manhattan that serve great food for $30 a head, and I am assuming you're talking about three courses (appetizer, main and dessert) without wine, tax or tip

More or less, but not in Chinese restaurants, for example. And Katz's is basically just a pastrami sandwich with a soft drink and cole slaw, though I've had cake there once and liked it.

You'd be hard pressed to name more than five or six that fit that description? You mean exactly that description, with the three courses? And are you including Outer Boroughs or not?

Katz's

Grand Sichuan

Congee Village

Kangsuh

Cho Dang Gol

Madras Cafe

DiFara's

Sripraphai

Restaurant Malaysia

Woo Chon's Kissena Blvd. location

Sichuan Dynasty

That's 11, with one in Brooklyn and 4 in Queens. Let's argue about these suggestions.

I am not from New York. I'm either there on business or pleasure (as a tourist). I went to Katz's once. Grotesquely huge sandwiches (expensive because they were huge) served with a lot of attitude. Not a very clean place either. What visitor wants to spend twice as much as necessary to get a sandwich when you can't take home the half you can't possibly eat (unless you're inclined to stick it in the mini-bar in your hotel)?

I vote for Payard Patisserie. Get a little something for lunch with a lot of pastry. Perhaps just skip the little something . I think most women would rather eat great pasty in nice surroundings than a lumberjack sandwich that's not served - it's thrown.

Also from a woman's POV - especially with a child in tow - I still enjoy Serendipity 3. Unbelievable - the place has been there for decades.

IOW - never underestimate the powerful attraction of chocolate .

By the way - if you're talking about tourists in New York - forget about Brooklyn and Queens. Only time I ever crossed all the bridges to Queens was to visit my grandmother before she died. Robyn

ADDED 1/23: I was talking to my husband at lunch and he told me the deli I disliked wasn't Katz's but another famous New York deli which hasn't been mentioned in this thread. No need to mention that place - and I apologize to Katz's. I think the drugs I'm taking both after dental surgery and for a very bad cold are starting to take a toll on my brain. .

Edited January 23, 2004 by robyn (log)

[Pan]

I went to Katz's once. Grotesquely huge sandwiches (expensive because they were huge) served with a lot of attitude. Not a very clean place either. What visitor wants to spend twice as much as necessary to get a sandwich when you can't take home the half you can't possibly eat (unless you're inclined to stick it in the mini-bar in your hotel)?

(1) It's non-fancy.

(2) You can order half a sandwich, but you didn't know that.

(3) I haven't perceived any bad attitude. This is a real New York place. My take on this, and I may be exaggerating, is if you don't like New York mannerisms, don't go to a non-fancy real deli with great pastrami; go to a haute cuisine place.

Also from a woman's POV - especially with a child in tow - I still enjoy Serendipity 3. Unbelievable - the place has been there for decades.

As I recall, it's come in for mixed reactions at best on these boards, including some pretty sharp words about attitude from the staff. I went there years ago and found it fun but wasn't in a rush to go back. Sure, huge sundaes are fun for kids.

By the way - if you're talking about tourists in New York - forget about Brooklyn and Queens. Only time I ever crossed all the bridges to Queens was to visit my grandmother before she died.

Typical tourists will stay away from the Outer Boroughs and probably will hang out in the Times Square District except for trips to the Empire State Building and the Statue of Liberty. eGulleteers, on the other hand, are at least somewhat more likely to take a 20-to-40-minute trip for some great food.

[TrishCT]

As a visitor, your top 20 list of the following would be extremely helpful, and thank you in advance for your input:

1. The Best Non Fancy $10 and under (in other words, cheap eats)

2. Non Fancy $10-$20 entrees (not including beverages, tax, tip, we'll do the math)

3. Non Fancy $20.01-$30 entrees, also including special prix fixes or other great deals or meal bargains in this range.

[hannnah]

Perfect timing for this thread - we'll be up for Presidents' Day/Valentine's/spousal birthday weekend, and while we always hit at least one of the high-end places (this time it's Aquavit), it's really helpful to have an idea of less expensive-yet-good places. Especially when they're spread around the city enough that there's bound to be something within walking distance of wherever we might be. I'm taking notes.

You can't necessarily get a full meal there, but Jacques Torres Chocolate qualifies as "not fancy," and is absolutely worth the trip even if you're a tourist scared to leave Manhattan. The hot chocolate mix is so good you can eat it straight from the tin (spousal quote: "Wow! This stuff would be worth having PMS for!"). We made an awfully good dent in the display case for personal consumption and gifts for less than $20. The staff person who was making the chocolate bunnies do a happy dance was a little disturbing, but I suspect they're on a permanent sugar high from the air alone. It smells goooooood in there.

Oh, and re: Trish's post, those categories would be helpful - but I'd be perfectly happy with 10, as I suspect 20's too many to come to a consensus on without years of wrangling. Maybe add a snack or pub grub category as well? There have to be plenty of places for a drink and a quick bite that don't really fall under any of the categories but are still worth a mention.

[reggie_212]

Katz's

Grand Sichuan

Congee Village

Kangsuh

Cho Dang Gol

Madras Cafe

DiFara's

Sripraphai

Restaurant Malaysia

Woo Chon's Kissena Blvd. location

Sichuan Dynasty

That's 11, with one in Brooklyn and 4 in Queens. Let's argue about these suggestions.

Quite an ethnic list... Aren't there "continental" restaurants which can be included??

[Pan]

Aren't there "continental" restaurants which can be included??

Under $30 for 3 courses that serve "great" food? That's really hard. Can you suggest any?

Edited January 23, 2004 by Pan (log)

[reggie_212]

Under $30 for 3 courses that serve "great" food? That's really hard. Can you suggest any?

Well, this might sound kind of pedestrian. But I've had some excellent comfort food at the Georgia Diner on Queens Blvd in Elmhurst. It fulfills the under $30 requirement. Plus, in my mind I think it may be the best diner I've ever been to. Even after discovering this particular diner, a girl I was dating and I were driving past the Georgia Diner, and she points at it and says: "My parents come all the way from Manhasset to eat here." Of course, I understood why.

[SobaAddict70]

There are many good restaurants in Manhattan that serve great food for $30 a head, and I am assuming you're talking about three courses (appetizer, main and dessert) without wine, tax or tip

More or less, but not in Chinese restaurants, for example. And Katz's is basically just a pastrami sandwich with a soft drink and cole slaw, though I've had cake there once and liked it.

You'd be hard pressed to name more than five or six that fit that description? You mean exactly that description, with the three courses? And are you including Outer Boroughs or not?

Katz's

Grand Sichuan

Congee Village

Kangsuh

Cho Dang Gol

Madras Cafe

DiFara's

Sripraphai

Restaurant Malaysia

Woo Chon's Kissena Blvd. location

Sichuan Dynasty

That's 11, with one in Brooklyn and 4 in Queens. Let's argue about these suggestions.

You would not be, of course.

But speaking for myself, I would be hard pressed to name more than five or six that I regularly dine at or know of, for the amount of money that we're talking about. And no, we're not talking about your local Cantonese take out palaces, correct me if I'm wrong.

For me, the bar has to be set at $50 a head. For you, $30. A difference of $20 is not going to break anyone's bank, is it? I mean, really. At this level, it's like the difference between a Sassy's Slider and a Big Mac.

(yes, I'm being facetious)

Soba

[Pan]

But speaking for myself, I would be hard pressed to name more than five or six that I regularly dine at or know of, for the amount of money that we're talking about. And no, we're not talking about your local Cantonese take out palaces, correct me if I'm wrong.

No, you're right.

And I won't start shooting anyone who decides to set the bar at $50, but I think that ought to include tax and tip even though it makes sense to exclude wine.

[SobaAddict70]

Now, if it's up to and including $50 a head, we have:

Home (American, in the West Village)

Honmura An (Japanese, in SoHo)

Prune (American, in the East Village)

Country Cafe (French bistro, in SoHo)

Mare (seafood and fish, on Eighth Avenue, in Chelsea)

Jarnac (French, in the far West Village)

Wallse (Austrian, ditto)

Campagna (Italian, in the Flatiron district)

Meet (in the meatpacking district)

Lupa (no introduction necessary)

Casa Mono (ditto)

The Red Cat

Le Jardin Bistro (French, in SoHo)

and that's 13. Pretty sure I could dredge up a few more.

Soba

Honorable mention: Florent (in the meatpacking district), for their absolutely wonderful foie gras rillettes and daily specials. Even fits Pan's requirement of being under $30 although you can certainly go for broke.

And there's the crepe place across the street from Pastis whose name escapes me at the moment. French as well, wonderful crepes suzette and sandwiches on crusty toasty baguettes. Also a bargain, could fit under the $30 requirement.

[Fat Guy]

I'm not sure how productive it is to devote a lot of effort to debating the numerical cutoff. Ultimately, if the list can be sorted by price, it doesn't matter for now -- it's something that can be decided as things develop. My suggestion would be to focus on the strongest candidates. Already there are a few emerging. It's also important to cut loose anything that's not in the absolute best-of-the-best category -- anything else misses the point of the exercise. It might be helpful at this point just to nail down a few of the best and start building the list.

[kurl]

It's on 55th by 8th, IIRC.  And I'm not sure if it's open weekends -- I remember their having really limited open hours.

It's called "Al's Soup Kitchen International," by the way.

is it not gone?

Oops, must be.

Haven't been there in several years -- pretty good place, though.

[kurl]

I've never been, nor have I done any research about it, so I may be way off base, but how much is Blue Smoke? Presumably a burger and wings or macaroni and cheese is cheap(ish?) and worth eating.

[glenn]

Now, if it's up to and including $50 a head, we have:

[...]

Meet (in the meatpacking district)

[...]

Ohmygod, please tell me about your experience(s)!! And have you looked at the prices lately, like in the last year? Well, I suppose you could find a combo of app, entree and dessert to fall below $50, but that's WITHOUT tax and tip. [and jeez soba, I used to respect you :-))]

Edited January 23, 2004 by glenn (log)

[glenn]

Btw, back to my worthless opinion -- lists without explanation are worthless. Like someone said, you might as well just read Zagat.

Edited January 23, 2004 by glenn (log)

[Pan]

glenn, you've got a good point, but how about if you lead by example with the descriptions? I'll write some later.

[Pan]

Alright, I guess I'll start.

Katz's: Really one of the quintessential New York places. A non-fancy restaurant that every famous person seems to have gone to, and for good reason: The pastrami. Sure, you can get a great turkey sandwich, too, but the pastrami is the reason most people come here. Go up to the counter, taste the sample, and ask for a new one if you're not satisfied. Don't forget to tip the counterman, and don't lose your ticket! If you're not hungry enough to eat a horse - um, I mean a whole sandwich - order half a sandwich, with or without a bowl of matzo ball or split pea soup. Great cole slaw, too!

Grand Sichuan: The one I'm most familiar with is the Chelsea branch, but the Hell's Kitchen branch is better. This restaurant makes fiery dishes but will also make a terrific non-spicy dish if so requested. The list of great dishes at the place is too long to mention here, though if you want to mention some, go to the Grand Sichuan or Your favorite Chinese restaurant dishes in NY threads. Your best bet is to stick to specialties from Sichuan and Hunan. Don't come here for breathtaking decor or fancy wines, but bring your appetite and joie de vivre.

Shall I go on? Is that the kind of tone you want?

Edited January 23, 2004 by Pan (log)