Story of Varmint's Kitchen Renovation

[snowangel]

I said "to hell with it; "I'll just quit my job (which I did) and re-do my kitchen myself (which I did)."

Gotta love my husband who not only supported my decision but also bought me a boatload of power tools to make the jos easier. I'm thinking of Ms. Varmint here too. Took me less than 2 months, with a little help from kids and spouse. Pretty painless, and totallly under my control.

[Malawry]

Congratulations on fixing up that kitchen. Lord knows it needs it!

Varm, why will it be impossible to manage for longer than a month without a kitchen? What will you do in the interim? I imagine that with the little kitchenette in the master bedroom loft and your in-laws just down the road you could manage better than most families...even if there are four lil Varmints scampering about.

My partner and I discuss renovations periodically. He has a very different sense than I do of what would both make the kitchen more attractive and increase the resale value. I also have ideas on increasing functionality. Because of these differing ideas I feel ill-equipped to go engage some professionals and get ballpark numbers on the projects we might complete. As a result we have a cheap stick-on tile floor that was poorly laid, dusty rose countertops, and dark stained 1984 wood cabinets. However the kitchen is actually in pretty good shape for working and has plenty of storage space, decent equipment, and workable space layout. Plus it's big. So maybe I shouldn't carp.

[Varmint]

Thanks for the advice on designers. I need to read Don Silvers' book on design, as he focuses on the cooking function first and foremost. Fortunately, stepping back for a moment is going to be helpful, allowing me some time to evaluate both short and long term plans. Of course, I'd like to gut the kitchen, the hallways, and the laundry/utility room and create a totally new workspace, but before I can afford to do that (and we have the emotional energy reserve built up), I want a quick fix. Let me give you an example: my current cooktop is an electric coil top with a downdraft that doesn't work. There is a cabinet that is 20" above the cooktop. This doesn't even comply with current code requirements. Imagine boiling a pot on a back burner, under the cabinet -- the steam/water vapor condenses on the bottom of the cabinet and then drips back into the pan. Sounds yummy, eh, particularly when you think of what other gunk has accumulated on that cabinet (we try to clean it frequently so we don't gross ourselves out).

Another thing: the dishwasher is under a marble countertop. However, the plane of the dishwasher door is not even with the edge of the marble. Nope, instead the door is back about 6-8 inches, resulting in quite an overhang. Getting stuff in and out of the dishwasher, particularly the top rack, is a royal pain in the ass.

So I continue with the process, slow and steady.

[Varmint]

Oh, and Malawry, it's not that it's impossible to go without a kitchen for over a month, but it's just totally undesirable right now. We can do it, but we're trying not to.

[Marlene]

When I met with a designer to do my kitchen, she repeatedly ignored the things I wanted, and kept trying to put her own into the design. She kept moving my kitchen sink, and I kept moving it back . And there were lots of things she said couldn't be done, like my floor to ceiling pull out spice racks etc.

In the end, I sat down with my contractor, told him what I wanted, and he made it all work. For a lot less than the kitchen design place wanted too I might add.

If you've got a real sense of what you want, sketch it out if you can. Then find a local small contractor. They do miracles.

Edited January 12, 2004 by Marlene (log)

[Varmint]

Marlene, if you can't recall my monstrosity of a kitchen, I need to remind you that sketching it out isn't really for someone like me. This isn't just a matter of taking a nice rectangular space and putting stuff where you want. It involves load bearing walls in strange places, steel I-beams that get in the way, ugly tile flooring that has over an inch of substrata, and other quirks that just ain't right!

[Marlene]

No I know that. I remember your kitchen. Shoot, had I known this, I could've done it while I was down there.

[phaelon56]

Reality rears its ugly head. I have met with 4 different contractors, and I received 4 different proposals. There is one point of consensus: they agree that this is the weirdest, craziest kitchen they have ever seen. One suggested a stick of dynamite might be the appropriate way to go!

About eight years ago I purchased my first house - a tiny (650 sq feet) one story place built partly on wooden pier foundation with crawlspace, partly on block foundation, a rear laundry room on a slab and a "utility room" with a dirt floor. I wanted to gut it, add a second story, open up the first floor space and completely rebuild all but the shell. The first two contractors advise me to get a bulldozer and knock it down. I got lucky on the third guy - he was young, newly in business for himself and shared my vision. I did the bulk of the detail work and all the demolition but by acting as my own general contractor I save a bundle of money and made the project work. This approach is not suitable for everyone nor do they have the skills, time or flexibility to do it but it worked for me.

I went low end on all but the cabinets as I knew I would resell the house. I knew what price the neighborhood would support I did resell it two years later and eked out a small profit despite a sagging reals estate market at the time). Even the cabinets I got at a steal by waiting for the right sale. I'm including some pics here just to stimulate discussion (pics aren't too great - it was pre-digital camera era for me). The kitchen and rest of the house were not completely finished but the overall plan is visible.

First I took what was a confined and boxy space and opened it up by putting in 2x10 headers to eliminate the two load bearing walls at the front and back of the kitchen where it previously had doors into the laundry room and rather cramped dining room. Note that on the header face towards the front end of the kitchen (above the peninsula), I put multiple small cabinets that are originally designed to go above a refrigerator. They weren't terribly convenient but were perfect for those rarely used items that still need to be in the kitchen. They did wonderful job of covering the header and visually pulling together that space with the rest of the kitchen. I also put an angled cabinet in the 90 degree corner where the small cabinets met the rest of the kitchen, a butcher block counter top between the stove and refrigerator and had the under the peninsula cabinet equipped with rollouts for pots 'n pans. I bought a conventional cabinet with rollouts and hired a very competent part time cabinet maker to farbicate a false door for the back side of the peninsual cabinet (where it faced the dining room - that's the room in the pic with the black chair in it). He also built me a maple front panel and a curved center support for the side of the peninsula cabinet, which was now under the peninsula overhang (where the stools are in the pic). I did the finishing myself with Minwax "Wipe-On Poly" and the finish was indistinguishable from a factory finish. That tactic alone (fabricating the peninsula cabinet myself) saved hundreds of $$.

Despite the relatively small space, this was a really easy kitchen to work in. Friends who visited were just wowed and loved it plus the open space in front and behind gave people a place to hang out when I cooked. The butcher block top was the only feature that really didn't get used - the space was too cramped and I ended up doing my cutting on a block set on the peninsula.

Look around for novel ways to save money. I knew I needed to have formica counters due to the cost factor but I wanted a maple beveled bullnose edge. The counter shops charge about $3 per linear for for this feature. After inquiring, I discovered that the price is so high because they must wait until evening hours when there's no production dust in the air before they can aply the coatings. I got mine unfinished at about 85 cents per linear foot and finished them myself after installation with careful taping and Minwax "Wipe-On Poly" (a miracle product if ever there was one).

[denise_jer]

We redid our kitchen over the summer. Completely tore everything out. I'd say we were about 3 - 3.5 months without a kitchen - we ate a lot of grilled and microwaved foods! We didn't go with a contractor because no one would do what we wanted (new cabinets, move the stove and sink, raise up the counter for a dishwasher - which also required making the windows smaller...) for the money we had.

We did, however, find a kitchen designer at the place where we ordered our cabinets. She did the designs for free, was able to plan out exactly what we wanted, and ordered the cabinets and countertops for us. She also mapped out the outlets and plumbing for the plumber/electician, and the hanging instructions for the cabinets. The only people we had to hire were the plumber and electrician, so we saved a lot of money by skipping the contractor. But of course, we did take three months for the renovation. But the trade off was worth it for us, though, because we were able to get Corian countertops, cork flooring and the fridge I've always wanted.

[Varmint]

But the trade off was worth it for us, though, because we were able to get Corian countertops, cork flooring and the fridge I've always wanted.

How do you like the cork floors?

[phaelon56]

I can't comment on cork floors but after giving cermic tile serious consideration I went with wood floors - #1 red oak. It was easier using oak because it tied into the floors in the rest of the house but I prefer maple for kitchen floors - it's cheaper and harder. If you do wood floors with three coats of poly and ensure to clean them exclusively with water and just a few drops of dishwashing detergent.... you can easily buff them out and recoat once every everal years when they get a bit too scuffed looking.

On a completely separate note - not necessarily applicable to those using hired help but I made one HUGE mistake that was avoidable. I neglected to put horizontal 2x4's in the walls as cabinet nailers before we sheetrocked the kitchen. It was an unbelievable hassle trying to find and gain purchase on some of the studs so that all the cabinets could be properly supported.

[denise_jer]

How do you like the cork floors?

We like them a lot. It really is noticeable if you are standing in the kitchen for a while, vs. standing on the hardwood. So far, it has been pretty easy to clean. It was super easy to lay - it came in tiles that were already sealed, so all we had to do was put down some adhesive, lay the tiles, and put on another coat of sealant. The tiles cut with a sharp Xacto knive.

I think the only thing we weren't expecting was shrinkage - we put the floor down over the summer, and it was tight as a drum. Now that it is pretty cold here, there are small cracks from where the tiles shrank a little bit. But I think we are going to give the floor a good cleaning and vacuum, and put another coat of poly on there to kind of seal them. We haven't had any problems with dirt in there anyway, but it could be that it isn't noticeable - we bought pretty dark tiles.

[slbunge]

Just my two cents:

I have two good friends who used cork floors. One had terrible staining of the floor post installation and it seems that they were not properly sealed. Moisture (either ambient or from cleaning) penetrated the cork and changed the color making it appear muddy. This household were not heavy users of their kitchen so I can't comment about wear. Their floor went in about 10 years ago.

Second friend has had a cork floor for about three years and loves it. The floor was laid as square tiles (similar to denise_jer's) by a professional and then sealed with two coats of specially formulated sealant. Again, this woman is not a heavy user of her kitchen, but there has not been a stain to speak of and she commented about how many fewer things have broken on the cork floor (she used to have ceramic tile).

I'm left thinking that cork is a reasonable choice and very comfortable but be sure to do your homework about getting the proper sealant.

Have you thought of using real, old-school linoleum? I would think it would have similar resiliancy to cork but may not be as susceptible to moisture absorption (less movement and less chance of staining).

(Nice blog by the way. Vicarious living for all of us.)

[denise_jer]

Definitely follow the manufacturer’s directions and recommendations! They not only sold us the tile, but the glue and the sealant as well. A couple of coats on top of the already existing sealant made a difference, I'm sure. But like I said, ours is a pretty dark color, too.

[Marlene]

I looked at cork, but in the end went with hardwood. I used birch which I would not recommend as it is a little softer than I expected, but maple is perfect as is oak.

[AlexP]

We have a cork floor. It looked great the first couple of months and then we added Bogie (mix black lab) to the family. Bye bye cork floor. Maybe the sealant was not properly applied, but nevertheless the marks from Bogie are quite noticeable.

It is definitely a nice surface to stand for hours cooking, but I do not think it is really durable with pets around or with hard use. I have mix feelings about the cleaning, other surfaces might be a better choice.

Alex

[Nick]

On a completely separate note - not necessarily applicable to those using hired help but I made one HUGE mistake that was avoidable. I neglected to put horizontal 2x4's in the walls as cabinet nailers before we sheetrocked the kitchen. It was an unbelievable hassle trying to find and gain purchase on some of the studs so that all the cabinets could be properly supported.

Fortunately, I had a really good carpenter working with me when we put in the kitchen in my (still) unfinished new house last summer. The sheetrock was already up and what he did to mount the wall cabinets was to cut a piece out the sheetrock - about 4" high and nearly as long as the cabinets. He then cut a piece of 1/2" plywood that fit the hole and screwed that to the studs. Then the cabinets were screwed into the plywood, hitting the studs where possible and just the plywood where the ends of the cabinets were between studs. It works!

[fifi]

For floors, check out Commercial Vinyl Tile. I had that in a kitchen about 20 years ago and absolutely loved it. I brought up the idea to my architect and he said it is all the rage again. Then they actually featured it on one of those kitchen design shows so I felt vidicated. It comes in a zillion colors and patterns and is just about indestructible as well as super easy to clean. It is comfortable to stand on, too.

[bloviatrix]

For floors, check out Commercial Vinyl Tile. I had that in a kitchen about 20 years ago and absolutely loved it. I brought up the idea to my architect and he said it is all the rage again. Then they actually featured it on one of those kitchen design shows so I felt vidicated. It comes in a zillion colors and patterns and is just about indestructible as well as super easy to clean. It is comfortable to stand on, too.

We went through the planning process of a kitchen renovation several years ago (it never happened, but that's another story). Anyway, our designer suggested we use Amtico which makes vinyl flooring. Her experience was that it's comfortable for long-term standing and easy to clean. The selection of colors and styles is absolutely overwhelming - we spent several hours in the showroom looking at choices and figuring what would work best in our space.

[Varmint]

Hmmm. I wonder if commercial vinyl tile can be put on top of existing ceramic tile? The reason is that we discovered that no one will rip out our existing tile floor and substrata without gutting all the cabinetry, too.

[fresco]

Not a good idea. You'd see every tile impression through the vinyl. What's under the ceramic and do you know whether it is put on with mastic or floor mix?

[Varmint]

Floor mix, from what I understand. About an inch thick of it, too.

[fresco]

It is possible to remove the old tile and scrape (and bang) the floor mix off the plywood. But it is an awful, tedious job. You don't want to do it yourself or pay a skilled tradesperson to do it. If your contractor has or knows someone who is unskilled but hardworking and will do it for a couple of hundred bucks it may be worth it.

[fifi]

First let me preface this with the statement... I know absolutely nothing about this.

Aren't there some products out there for "leveling" a floor that could either level the tile or level the surface after you rip the tile out and do an ok job of cleaning up the subfloor? Then it might be good enough for the vinyl tile. With a little pattern in the vinyl, absoute perfection shouldn't be necessary.

[Varmint]

As I mentioned above, I've been told by a couple of people that I'd have to gut the entire kitchen to remove the tiles. Just think of trying to remove tile from a maze -- that's my kitchen. Cost estimates for removing tile without gutting the kitchen are in the 3-4,000 range!!! Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

What we may do is keep the tile for now, but have some complimentary "transitional" floor options where we do plan to remove cabinets. I don't know. This is way too confusing.