The Food Safety and Home Kitchen Hygiene/Sanitation Topic

[Mabelline]

That is truly profound....

[HKDave]

Butchers have used end grain wooden chopping boards since time immemorial. The molecular structure of the wood seems to interact with bacteria in such a way as to kill them within a short time. Plastic however soon develops cavities within which bacteria survive unless boiled in a dishwasher. This in turn further breaks down the structure of the plastic so that it harbors even more bacteria. The only people to benefit are the manufacturers who, having sold us a rainbow-colored collection, then sell us a never-ending series of replacements. Just one more example of built-in obsolescence.

Agree, agree, agree. In Bangkok our plastic cutting board got so uncleanably (is that a word?) ripe we had to throw it out after a month, while our (cheap, non-end-grain) wooden one lasted for years. A local cook's trick for 'sterilizing' a wooden cutting board is to rub it with salt and a cut lemon or lime (use the husk of one you've just squeezed), then rinse.

At home we follow a few very basic food safety practices:

- change kitchen towels often. These are the #1 breeding ground for bacteria in a home kitchen.

- keep the fridge as cold as it will go without freezing anything.

- do meat prep (esp. chicken and fish) first, then clean everything including hands in warm soapy water before continuing, and switch to a fresh kitchen towel.

- clean as you cook - don't leave food or dirty dishes lying around.

Plus, because most veg here comes from mainland China, we do more thorough washing of anything to be eaten raw than you would in the West.

But we don't obsess about it. In China or Vietnam I routinely eat in places that would make a typical Wet-nap addict cringe. Chicken in Hong Kong is often bought live and killed in front of you, isn't always refrigerated, and never is cooked anywhere near what an US health inspector would call adequate. But we haven't got sick from eating it for the last decade. Our first trip to Mexico, the delectable Ms. A ordered a raw scallop cocktail at a street restaurant for her very first meal - even HKDave thought that was pretty hardcore (why I love her...). But you only live once, and boy did those scallops taste good.

[StInGeR]

But we don't obsess about it. In China or Vietnam I routinely eat in places that would make a typical Wet-nap addict cringe.

You have to admit the food from those street vendors on Temple Street is damn good

Cheers

Tom

[John Whiting]

A local cook's trick for 'sterilizing' a wooden cutting board is to rub it with salt and a cut lemon or lime (use the husk of one you've just squeezed), then rinse.

Aha! Salt and lemon -- sounds like the makings of a tagine. Do you think it has a similarly antisectic effect on one's innerds?

[dumplin]

I have bleach solution, tons of towels, 3 chefs knives, and wooden cutting boards. I was surprised to hear that plastic cutting boards were not sanitary after hearing for so long that they were. I have a friend who's son's high school science project was cutting boards and germs. The plastic boards grew a nice colony of salmonella while the wooden boards didn't. That made a believer out of me. If I do cut meat on my boos block, it gets a thorough clensing and bleach spritzing. Those disposable cutting sheets make quick work of a chicken breast or two.

I have gotten food poisoning and it was not worth repeating. The Lobster Bisque at The Whitney's in Detroit is...although it better be hot next time...

Edited May 8, 2004 by dumplin (log)

[Pickles]

Yes, mayo with anything---keep that stuff COLD... the worst real live food poison I have experienced was from a Mayo-seafood salad in Vegas. I spent two days in hospital while everyone else partied...It's getting on picnic time, so keep that tater salad on ice!! Bring a bigger bowl, and keep the salads cold-please!

Edit to add, a bigger bowl with ice in it, and the salad embedded in that! DUH...

You sure the mayo got you? Sure it wasn't the actual seafood involved? Mayo gets a bad rap at times.

Interesting Stuff Here On Mayo

and:

More....

[John Whiting]

Strictly Germ-Proof

[foodsafetyguru]

Butchers have used end grain wooden chopping boards since time immemorial. The molecular structure of the wood seems to interact with bacteria in such a way as to kill them within a short time.

I agree with John Whiting in principle - there's some great work done by Prof. Dean O. Cliver that suggests the natural enzymes in wood knock out the bugs and the absorbent nature of wood deprives the bugs of the moisture they need to survive. So wood is good but this natural "inhibition" needs time to work - it is NOT instantaneous by any means! (Plastic has no such properties - so the onus there is on cleaning and sanitizing).

And I think it was celebrity chef Gary Rhodes who once said "It doesn't matter how expensive a dish is, or how fabulous it looks, if it hasn't been prepared safely, it's worthless..."

The problem starts when the same board is used to prepare a series of different foods. Washing boards between each type of food - particularly moving from raw to cooked foods - does not always remove the bugs - so it is more convenient and generally safer to use separate boards. The foodservice industry learned this lesson a long time ago, using color-coded boards.

For home use, I think the Identibord system of color-coded wood boards makes a real neat solution - their site is at Identibord

Color-coded boards are not for everyone - but many believe a real advantage is that, when used, they help to make people THINK about what they are doing foodsafety-wise.....and that can't be bad.

[Mabelline]

Well, I think it was the mayo, because everyone else had the same cocktail but with red sauce on theirs. I picked the aolli sauce because it was more lemony! So we all figured it was that. Dunno for sure, but I was a sick puppy.

[Pickles]

Someone may have chopped garlic for the aioli on a board where someone just prepared raw fish or chicken. Hard to tell exactly what may have happened there. Could have been the garlic, too. I think all of us have been struck down with a "tummy flu" that was indeed food poisoning.

[robyn]

Well, I think it was the mayo, because everyone else had the same cocktail but with red sauce on theirs. I picked the aolli sauce because it was more lemony! So we all figured it was that. Dunno for sure, but I was a sick puppy.

Chopped fresh garlic in oil can produce some very nasty anaerobic bacteria - particularly if it's sitting around at room temperature for a while (as it's likely to do at a buffet). So that would be a possible culprit. I never make anything which involves fresh chopped garlic in oil unless I'm going to use it almost immediately (and if I make it in the morning for dinner that night - I keep it in the refrigerator).

I am pretty safety conscious. But not a fanatic. Always do hot things hot/cold things cold. Avoid buffets and other eating situations where food sits at room temperature for long periods of time (you couldn't get me on a cruise for anything).

Always thoroughly wash and dry cutting boards/knives before using them again for different things (although I don't worry at all about what kinds of boards they are). Wash my hands with soap and hot water after I fix X and move on to Y. Etc. I gamble because I eat rare meat - but I do that almost always at home where I know how the food has been handled.

I always thought this was a matter of common sense until I saw my husband using a board he had just used for raw chicken to cut up some veggies. Needless to say - the veggies wound up in the garbage. Robyn

[Dave the Cook]

I think all of us have been struck down with a "tummy flu" that was indeed food poisoning.

And vice-versa.

[John Whiting]

I always thought this was a matter of common sense until I saw my husband using a board he had just used for raw chicken to cut up some veggies.  Needless to say - the veggies wound up in the garbage.  Robyn

What about the husband?

[Pickles]

Scroll down and have a listen to "Cheeseburger With Parasites, and Cleaning Out The Fridge." The rest you can look up yourselves!

http://www.bobrivers.com/show/vault/alpha.asp?Var=C

[NulloModo]

Robyn:

Now, were these veggies going to be served raw or cooked?

If everything is going to get cooked anyways, I don't see why it would matter if you chopped bloody beef, raw chicken, veggies, and an apple for a pie for desert all on the same board, they are all going into the oven or the skillet so anything that is transmitted from one to the other is going to still end up dead.

[WHT]

Robyn:

Now, were these veggies going to be served raw or cooked?

If everything is going to get cooked anyways, I don't see why it would matter if you chopped bloody beef, raw chicken, veggies, and an apple for a pie for desert all on the same board, they are all going into the oven or the skillet so anything that is transmitted from one to the other is going to still end up dead.

it has to do with the temp that the different microbes die at relitive to the cooking temp of the food.

[Pickles]

If the food is thoroughly cooked, all bacteria will be killed. It's still a good idea to keep raw and cooked foods as far away from one another as possible. Many times I've eaten a bit of green pepper from my cutting board, and then realized I'd just cut up my chicken breast on it. I haven't gotten sick yet. YET.

[foodsafetyguru]

If the food is thoroughly cooked, all bacteria will be killed.

That might be true. It might not. It all depends on the type of bacteria. Some are spore-formers that can survive temperatures well above 212F/100C. Also some foodborne illnesses are caused, not by the presence of the bacteria themselves, but by the toxic waste they produce - so even when the bacteria are dead, the toxins remain in the food and you get sick.

[John Whiting]

Also some foodborne illnesses are caused, not by the presence of the bacteria themselves, but by the toxic waste they produce - so even when the bacteria are dead, the toxins remain in the food and you get sick.

Which is precisely why irradiation as a way of correcting careless handling is a form of russian roulette.

[Pickles]

If the food is thoroughly cooked, all bacteria will be killed.

That might be true. It might not. It all depends on the type of bacteria.

I was referring to the chicken-juice type of bacteria on a basic, garden variety home cutting board. Any raw veg cut on that board *should* be ok to eat if they are cooked. Eat at your own risk, I say. If it gives some people agita, then by all means, toss it out. I don't see myself with all sorts of "spore forming" bacterias, etc. although I am aware of them. Took Serv Safe some years back, and passed. Need a refresher though.

[Mabelline]

Scroll down and have a listen to "Cheeseburger With Parasites, and Cleaning Out The Fridge." The rest you can look up yourselves!

http://www.bobrivers.com/show/vault/alpha.asp?Var=C

Pickles, that sight was great! Thanx very muchly...

[robyn]

Robyn:

Now, were these veggies going to be served raw or cooked?

If everything is going to get cooked anyways, I don't see why it would matter if you chopped bloody beef, raw chicken, veggies, and an apple for a pie for desert all on the same board, they are all going into the oven or the skillet so anything that is transmitted from one to the other is going to still end up dead.

Raw - salad.

I'm not sure my rules are all sound scientifically - but they've kept us out of the hospital for quite a few years .

My husband has the proverbial "cast-iron" stomach - so I'm not sure any of this matters to him. My tummy gets upset just reading this thread . So I try to be careful. Robyn

[robyn]

What about the husband? 

He's been mine for 33 years now. Think I'll keep him despite his foibles . Robyn

[JohnN]

I'm curious about the comments about plastic cutting boards not being safe. First, what do you mean by plastic? We use polyethylene cutting boards exclusively. We have several and take care to not use the same board for meats and veggies (or we cut the veggies first and then the meats). The boards always go in the dishwasher.

I'm getting the impression that folks here are suggesting this isn't safe? I have a hard time understanding how anything is going to live through the (hot) dishwasher.

Thanks,

-john

[Abra]

Since this has popped back to the top, I can't resist reposting this link Hilarious Food Safety Songs Some of them actually are laugh out loud funny.