Rick Bayless and Burger King - Part 1

[ronnie_suburban]

Yes, the matter seems to be relatively "open and shut" for CC.  Their dogmatic mission statement doesn't allow for much wiggle room.

But I personally couldn't care less if RB comes off as (or is) a hypocrite.  I cannot label someone who I don't know personally--especially given the depth of his work--over one relatively harmless (albeit very public) decision.  For many, it seems that this one decision is enough to define him as a hypocrite in perpetuity.  I think that's overly-simplistic, naive and unfair.

Is Bayless guilty of abadonning his cause?  Perhaps momentarily, but probably not for the long haul.  Did he make a seemingly inconsistent decision?  Sure...but I have no problem with that either.  In the end, pointing to him as a hypocrite is merely a dramatic way to indicate that his efforts are less "pure" than they once were.  Perhaps he is a sell-out, but he's a sell out who will still do more to further his cause than many others; including those who are eager to label him over this one choice.  And viewed in that context, this instance of "selling out" is of almost no consequence.  Again, this decision doesn't negate Bayless' ability to do good work, only the perception (by some) of what he is.

Actually, this is more or less the point I was trying to make above. It may not be "important" that this was a hypocritical act (see definition #2 above). But it was.

Is it important to you? Apparently not. To Bayless? Time will tell. To me? Yes, to the idealistic idiot who still lives within me. To CC? Damn straight, IMO.

Cheers,

Squeat

Edited for trying to spell on only one cup of coffee.

I think hypocrisy is an important matter but I can't throw a blanket out there to cover all instances of it--and I do agree that RB's doing this ad is one. But, in my mind, it's important to assess each instance separately. If I were more diehard about the specific issue at hand, I'd probably be more aghast over it.

And there ain't nothing wrong with being idealistic either. It just so happens that another side of me decided to show up on this thread.

Cheers right back atcha' Squeat.

=R=

[jilly rizzo]

Rocco had a price.  NBC found it.

Bayless had a price.  BK found it. 

Got the pattern yet?

you go Singizzle!

if you ask me rick got the best of BK.

talk about niche.

what also gets me, is that some folks here, who are most opposed to

Rizzle Bayizzle's decision

RAN OUT AND BOUGHT THE FUCKING SANDWICH!!!!!!!!!!!

come on now.

[jilly rizzo]

An aside,

how is this

i just turned on PBS here in DC

and guess who is all up in Julia's kitchen right now as I type this?

Rick Bayless... he all be boiling red onions w/ Juizzle Chizzle...

granted the episode is god knows how many years old but,

talk about serendipity!

put that in yo' salamander and broil it.

you go rick with your english cucumbers...

super size that mo' fo'

-jilly

celestine prophecy, inc.

[tommy]

what also gets me, is that some folks here, who are most opposed to

Rizzle Bayizzle's decision

RAN OUT AND BOUGHT THE FUCKING SANDWICH!!!!!!!!!!!

come on now.

i don't find it odd that some want to be informed.

[jilly rizzo]

i don't find it odd that some want to be informed.

considering the venom

I DO.

yeah, crack is bad.

let me smoke a 20 rock just to see what all the fuss is about.

jilly

pot kettle black, inc.

[Steve Klc]

When this thread first started, I rather naively speculated on page one:

"Maybe this endorsement means nothing more than BK is doing it just about the best that it can be done given its customer base, price and volume--and surely real reductions in fat in popular BK sandwiches will have more actual influence in more people's lives than any Alice Waters piece in Saveur. What if part of his agreement is that he'll continue to consult, continue to effect positive change? What if the BK support includes charitable contributions for some of these other Bayless interests like Chef's Collaborative?"

Too many cynical blows seem to have landed since, and his action seems more disingenuous with time. The Chef's Collaborative hypocrisy is the main sticking point for many people weighing in on this thread. As Shaw summarizes:

"Rick Bayless made this choice, he has been well paid, he hardly deserves a pass. Particularly in the case of the Chefs Collaborative people, he has blind-sided them and forced action on their parts -- yet they are taking the time to make a reasoned judgment; hardly a witch hunt. And he certainly doesn't deserve that pass now that he has compounded his poor judgment with disingenuous propaganda that removes any remaining doubt as to his hypocrite-sellout status."

Perhaps there's another shoe forced to drop-kick Bayless that we've so far overlooked--how do you think Colman Andrews of Saveur must feel to have one of his consulting editors now hawking Burger King? If the last spots in the upcoming "Saveur 100" issue have not yet been nailed down, could the "Santa Fe Fire Grilled Chicken Baguette" be heralded as the new standard against which we judge all other fast food? Not likely. Nor is it likely Bayless will be commended by Saveur for an elastic interpretation of Chef's Collaborative core principles. Then again, Saveur is advertising-driven as any other magazine.

I'm looking forward to the response by Chef's Collaborative and for their sakes wish Bayless had the foresight to resign before taking the BK loot. I fear Mr. Andrews has a difficult decision to make as well.

If there turns out to be a moral to this story, might it be that bought and paid for beliefs rarely taste authentic anymore?

[slkinsey]

I just don't want to have to look at my stupid face in the bathroom mirror and see a salesman for fucking Coors or Immodium.

Dude, you could be an awesome salesperson for Immodium. I mean, if anyone knows how great that stuff works it has to be you. I can see it now...

"Hi there. I'm Tony Bourdain and I've just spend all day eating God knows what in Kuala Lumpur. I'm pretty sure that the guy who sold me this beef skewer hasn't washed his equipment or his hands... ever! Normally, I'd be spending about 6 hours of quality time in the throne room after a day like this, but I have to catch a 22 hour flight in about 45 minutes. Believe me, if you've ever spend a few hours in one of those pint-sized airplane thunder jugs you know you're lucky if the pins-and-needles in your feet go away by the time the plane is on the ground.

"So I'm taking a tablet of Extra Strength Immodium AD. When you eat at the places I've been eating, you know this stuff is your best friend, and with all the lower GI parasites I've caught over the last 18 months, I know what I'm talking about. After I take one, two or fifteen of these little babies, my bowels will be sealed shut like Fort Knox in no time at. That's gonna make my flight a lot easier... and I'd be lying if I didn't admit that it'll probably make the flight easier for everyone else in the plane as well.

"So when your bung is running like a crack addicted thief from the LA police, do what I do and reach for Immodium AD. Don't leave the Western Hemisphere without it."

[Fat Guy]

When this thread first started, I rather naively speculated on page one:

"Maybe this endorsement means nothing more than BK is doing it just about the best that it can be done given its customer base, price and volume--and surely real reductions in fat in popular BK sandwiches will have more actual influence in more people's lives than any Alice Waters piece in Saveur.  What if part of his agreement is that he'll continue to consult, continue to effect positive change?  What if the BK support includes charitable contributions for some of these other Bayless interests like Chef's Collaborative?"

That's called projection, not naivete. I'm sure if you did a deal with Burger King it would be exactly as you described. In fact your history proves that pretty conclusively: nobody questions Steve Klc's seriousness as a pastry chef, nor is his seriousness diminshed when he does a consulting job and designs some recipes that use Crisco. First of all, Steve Klc hasn't built a career bitching about Crisco and doesn't sit on the board of directors of the Crisco Sucks Foundation. Second, Crisco (and vegetable shortening in general) is a product that serious pastry chefs actually use in a variety of applications. Third, if Steve Klc puts his name on a recipe that uses Crisco, you can be damn sure it's an actual recipe he developed, tested, and believes in -- it may be targeted at a certain level of skill, but it's going to be an attempt to do the best possible work within a given skill set. Fourth, Steve Klc's "Caramelized Apple Pie a la mode" recipe sounds damn good.

Just to run through those again for obviousness: Bayless has built a career bitching about fast food and is on the board of the Fast Food Sucks Foundation; no serious chef cooks with any species of the ingredients Burger King uses in this sandwich and the sandwich could be a lot better at a similar price point; Bayless had nothing to do with developing the sandwich; and the sandwich is mediocre.

[Fat Guy]

I cannot label someone who I don't know personally--especially given the depth of his work--over one relatively harmless (albeit very public) decision.  For many, it seems that this one decision is enough to define him as a hypocrite in perpetuity.  I think that's overly-simplistic, naive and unfair.

It is simple: he said one thing, then did another thing. And the change-of-heart explanation is totally implausible given the calculating and unapologetic propaganda that accompanies the decision.

It is not a judgment in perpetuity. It is simply a hypocritical contradiction that can be cured the second Bayless disavows one or the other aspect of his currenly split personality. But if he behaves hypocritically in perpetuity, the hypocrisy will stay with him.

[jhlurie]

Perhaps there's another shoe forced to drop-kick Bayless that we've so far overlooked--how do you think Colman Andrews of Saveur must feel to have one of his consulting editors now hawking Burger King?  If the last spots in the upcoming "Saveur 100" issue have not yet been nailed down, could the "Santa Fe Fire Grilled Chicken Baguette" be heralded as the new standard against which we judge all other fast food?  Not likely.  Nor is it likely Bayless will be commended by Saveur for an elastic interpretation of Chef's Collaborative core principles.  Then again, Saveur is advertising-driven as any other magazine.

This is a similar point to the one about the posible devaluation of the James Beard award. Somebody who we've been given every reason to believe is an "expert" in a certain area is giving advice which is leveraging that apparent expertise to sell us something unworthy.

BK Santa Fe Crapwich = Rick Bayless = James Beard Award Winner = An implication that it is somehow an award worthy endevour

[docsconz]

I just don't want to have to look at my stupid face in the bathroom mirror and see a salesman for fucking Coors or Immodium.

Dude, you could be an awesome salesperson for Immodium. I mean, if anyone knows how great that stuff works it has to be you. I can see it now...

"Hi there. I'm Tony Bourdain and I've just spend all day eating God knows what in Kuala Lumpur. I'm pretty sure that the guy who sold me this beef skewer hasn't washed his equipment or his hands... ever! Normally, I'd be spending about 6 hours of quality time in the throne room after a day like this, but I have to catch a 22 hour flight in about 45 minutes. Believe me, if you've ever spend a few hours in one of those pint-sized airplane thunder jugs you know you're lucky if the pins-and-needles in your feet go away by the time the plane is on the ground.

"So I'm taking a tablet of Extra Strength Immodium AD. When you eat at the places I've been eating, you know this stuff is your best friend, and with all the lower GI parasites I've caught over the last 18 months, I know what I'm talking about. After I take one, two or fifteen of these little babies, my bowels will be sealed shut like Fort Knox in no time at. That's gonna my flight a lot easier... and I'd be lying if I didn't admit that it'll probably make the flight easier for everyone else in the plane as well.

"So when your bung is running like a crack addicted thief from the LA police, do what I do and reach for Immodium AD. Don't leave the Western Hemisphere without it."

This has to be the funniest post I have ever read. Tony, you have to do it. By the way Immodium is an excellent medication. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

[hollywood]

It's now becoming clear to me that the editing of the ad cuts out the part where Chef Bayless runs the sandwich though the Wine Clip. That's the only logical explanation.

[slkinsey]

By the way Immodium is an excellent medication. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

Oh yea. That stuff is awesome. The liquid form is particularly fast-acting. Trust me, I've eaten Taco Bell at 4:00 AM in the middle of a cross-country road trip.

[Fat Guy]

I just don't want to have to look at my stupid face in the bathroom mirror and see a salesman for fucking Coors or Immodium.

"Hi, my name is Anthony Bourdain, and these are my friends Rick Bayless and Bob Villa. We're hanging out here on my patio drinking Coors, eating Burger King's new Santa Fe Fire Grilled Chicken Baguette, and popping Immodium. Later we're going to take out a second mortgage on the house at credit-card interest rates. Because sometimes real people in the real world are just too fucking lazy to do anything but drink Coors and eat Burger King -- they don't want to earn money, cook, or even take a shit. And did you notice we got Glenn Frey to write the music for this commercial? Coors, Burger King, Immodium, and second mortgages: a step in the right direction."

[slkinsey]

I just don't want to have to look at my stupid face in the bathroom mirror and see a salesman for fucking Coors or Immodium.

"Hi, my name is Anthony Bourdain, and these are my friends Rick Bayless and Bob Villa. We're hanging out here on my patio drinking Coors, eating Burger King's new Santa Fe Fire Grilled Chicken Baguette, and popping Immodium. Later we're going to take out a second mortgage on the house at credit-card interest rates. Because sometimes real people in the real world are just too fucking lazy to do anything but drink Coors and eat Burger King -- they don't want to earn money, cook, or even take a shit. And did you notice we got Glen Frey to write the music for this commercial? Coors, Burger King, Immodium, and second mortgages: a step in the right direction."

"This afternoon, Rick and I are going to be whipping up some delicious Immodium daquiries with frozen Coors in a swell Mikita drill-powered blender Bob knocked together with a few pieces of scrap PVC."

[Janedujour]

I AM a motherfucking hustler--but I'm selling a product I have a reasonable degree of confidence in--myself--and the stuff I like to do, the things I'm genuinely passionate about and curious about. FN has been kind enough--or foolish enough--whatever you might think--to enable that. I'm sitting in Kuala Lumpur at the moment--and it's NOT an unpleasant task, I can assure you . I LIKE it here. I very likely will say so--in print or on TV at some point. That's a little different than hawking gristle sandwiches--after a career condemning them.You will notice that I have endorsed absolutely NO products--though the opportunity has presented itself a number of times. It's NOT a matter of ethics, really. I'd sell out if I could. I just don't want to have to look at my stupid face in the bathroom mirror and see a salesman for fucking Coors or Immodium. I've done enought things I'm ashamed about in my life--and I know what that feels like.As far as "jumping at the chance" to join up with Food Net? Yeah..Sure..okay. Fair statement. When you see me doing a stand-up cooking show with a stupid smile stitched across my yap--barking "Don't Eat Fish On Monday Kids!" every ten minutes--or oohing and ahhing  over  what is obviously sludge on some Cincinnati On Four Dollars A Day, feel free to piss on me from  a great height.

Tony,

I'd never put you in the same category as Bayless. You are an original and (thankfully) brutally honest about everything you've eaten, cooked, done, shot, thought about etc.

And you take a lot of risks not giving a shit about your "sponsers", the FN, or your reputation.

I was only joking about you doing a commercial for "the patch"(!)

OK, I'll stop praising you. When you return to the US I want to ask you about a fava bean recipe from P-Town.

Have a great trip! Don't eat any under cooked stuff.

[docsconz]

Have a great trip! Don't eat any under cooked stuff.

But if you do, there is always Immodium!

[Mayhaw Man]

I AM a motherfucking hustler--but I'm selling a product I have a reasonable degree of confidence in--myself--and the stuff I like to do, the things I'm genuinely passionate about and curious about. FN has been kind enough--or foolish enough--whatever you might think--to enable that. I'm sitting in Kuala Lumpur at the moment--and it's NOT an unpleasant task, I can assure you . I LIKE it here. I very likely will say so--in print or on TV at some point. That's a little different than hawking gristle sandwiches--after a career condemning them.You will notice that I have endorsed absolutely NO products--though the opportunity has presented itself a number of times. It's NOT a matter of ethics, really. I'd sell out if I could. I just don't want to have to look at my stupid face in the bathroom mirror and see a salesman for fucking Coors or Immodium. I've done enought things I'm ashamed about in my life--and I know what that feels like.As far as "jumping at the chance" to join up with Food Net? Yeah..Sure..okay. Fair statement. When you see me doing a stand-up cooking show with a stupid smile stitched across my yap--barking "Don't Eat Fish On Monday Kids!" every ten minutes--or oohing and ahhing  over  what is obviously sludge on some Cincinnati On Four Dollars A Day, feel free to piss on me from  a great height.

Bayless sold out. After slagging fast food and American eating habits in mass media for a very long time he is shilling for Burger King. Big Deal. Burger King found his price and he took the check.

You, however, are doing exactly what anyone who ever wanted to get paid for what they would be doing anyway if they could afford it would do. (yikes that's a bad sentence). Good on you.

Incidentally, you should get your people (if you have "people") to talk to the people at Immodioum AD (they definitely have "people"). With all of the stuff you cram into your pie hole, you would be the perfect spokesman for that fine product.

I can see it now......

Hi,Tony Bourdain here, after a long day of eating unbelievably tasty bugs and vermin ridden meat, I head back to the hotel and gobble down a handfull of these little beauties and they plug me up like the Hoover Dam. I wake up the next morning ready to head out for more exciting local cuisine and I don't care if they stew it in batshit, it's not gonna ruin my day.

Immodium AD. I think of it as my little cork in a pill."

[jhlurie]

By the way Immodium is an excellent medication. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

Oh yea. That stuff is awesome. The liquid form is particularly fast-acting. Trust me, I've eaten Taco Bell at 4:00 AM in the middle of a cross-country road trip.

Taco Bell? Oh Sam I'm so dissapointed in you! Burger King is near a line. Taco Bell crosses it, since it has been scientifically proven that you can't eat Taco Bell without contracting something.

[slkinsey]

By the way Immodium is an excellent medication. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

Oh yea. That stuff is awesome. The liquid form is particularly fast-acting. Trust me, I've eaten Taco Bell at 4:00 AM in the middle of a cross-country road trip.

Taco Bell? Oh Sam I'm so dissapointed in you! Burger King is near a line. Taco Bell crosses it, since it has been scientifically proven that you can't eat Taco Bell without contracting something.

Dude... I was on Spring Break from college in Wisconsin. My judgment was clearly addled from too much Blatz and Rheinlander Bock. FWIW, I have literally never eaten at one since that unpleasant episode. Believe me, you don't want to find yourself frantically driving around rural Arkansas at 4:00 AM looking for someplace open that sells Immodium.

[Squeat Mungry]

I think this thread may be dead, in the sense that most of what there is to be said on the subject has probably been said until there are further developments. (It has been damned entertaining, though -- I can't remember when I've laughed so hard.) However, I would like to offer a little post-mortem, if only because the thread itself has helped me to learn something about myself.

I began to think about why I reacted so strongly to the news of Bayless' endorsement compared to others who posted, quite sensibly, "what-else-is-new -- get-over-it" types of opinions. The more I thought about it, in fact, the more I began to feel a bitter irony in the fact that I was, indeed, a pot calling the kettle black. I have made compromises in my life, and adjusted my own justifications for my behavior more than once in the past. Indeed at the moment I work in litigation, something I swore to myself 20 years ago (upon reading Dickens' Bleak House) I would never do. (Yes, I have always been an idealist and have the scars to prove it. I have nothing against lawyers, however, today.) So really the height I piss on Bayless from is not all that great, although he is the one with the big check.

But I am a very small pot, and Bayless is a very large kettle, at least to me. And I think I have figured out why. It does indeed have to do with context. The context of my own life. I am the product of two very old southern families (North Carolina). Southern traditions were very strong in my family, even though I grew up all over the country (my father was a Coast Guard officer), and spent my adolescence in Europe (Holland) and the San Francisco Bay Area, which has become my home.

My mother was no Alice Waters, but she was a sensible woman with a strong sense of tradition, and we were raised on fresh food simply prepared, and learned to respect and value both the taste and the nourishing qualities of our food. We were never fed fast food, unless the circumstances were just right -- circumstances which my sister and I learned to recognize and act upon: namely, be on a road trip (there were many) when there is no (then still Pepin-quality) Howard Johnson's in the vicinity. Then, simply introduce just the right amount of nonstop begging.

The last time I was in a fast-food chain restaurant was in 1996, when I decided to see whether McDonald's french fries still matched up to the rare cherished memories of my childhood. (They did not, though they still smelled great.)

The point, if I have one, is that my family background combined with awakening to adult life in the Bay Area during the time of Waters, etc. to make me really believe that the quality of food is important to the quality of life. I came to see people like Waters, Tower, etc. as representing a kind of philosophy not only of food, but of living well. It is as ronnie_suburban suspects: I am more diehard about the subject, and therefore more deeply disappointed in Bayless. Unlike Fat Guy, whose opinions as expressed in this thread seem to match my own most closely, I DO subscribe to the stated principles of the Chef's Collaborative, and I will feel badly if their mission is compromised by Bayless' action.

And (here's the happy ending) this entire thread has been most useful to me in clenching a decision I have been in the process of making, which is to get the hell out of making myself unhappy as a drone in a litigation support firm, and get the hell into making myself happy by making others happy with high-quality food. I'm not sure where exactly this is going to take me (I can't afford full-time culinary school), but I'm excited about it. Call it a step in the right direction.

So, I guess, thanks Rick Bayless! And, I'm sure, thanks eGullet!

[ronnie_suburban]

Thanks for the wonderfully candid post Squeat.

I think it's only natural for us to be critical of others for exhibiting the traits we like the least in ourselves. But, going beyond that initial reaction, as you did, can often lead to epiphany and personal growth.

=R=

[Fat Guy]

And (here's the happy ending) this entire thread has been most useful to me in clenching a decision I have been in the process of making, which is to get the hell out of making myself unhappy as a drone in a litigation support firm, and get the hell into making myself happy by making others happy with high-quality food. I'm not sure where exactly this is going to take me (I can't afford full-time culinary school), but I'm excited about it. Call it a step in the right direction.

First of all, your post is very much appreciated -- thank you for sharing those comments with us. Secondly, good luck -- changing careers is tough, especially a few years later when you run out of all the money you saved from the old, reliable, good-paying career; but it's worth it. And finally, you've caused me to get back to something I've been writing in bits and pieces over the past few weeks -- my own career-changing story -- and if I actually get it done you will be owed thanks for pushing me over the finish line.

[Janedujour]

Squeat:

It's good to hear that something good has come out of this debate.

I too have been examining my current career and wondering if it's at all possible to embark in a new one that has to do with food.

Awfully scary!

Best of luck to you and keep us posted!

[Squeat Mungry]

Thanks everyone for all the good wishes! I will definitely keep eGullet posted with developments as I make this move.

For the record, even though I don't patronize fast food restaurants, I don't judge those who do, nor those who work for the corporations that run them. That said, when I'm in a bigger-picture, Fast-Food-Nation sort of mood, I do feel a bit sorry for both groups, which I suppose makes me smug... but what the hell, I've already outed myself as a hypocrite.

Anyway, thanks again.

Cheers,

Squeat

PS Does anyone think BK may have pulled this ad? A couple of days ago I realized I had never seen it. I've been watching as much tv as I can handle since then, but still haven't seen it, though I have seen one that must be part of the same campaign.