Trip to Italy 101

[Cleo]

Tommy,

My husband and I just got back from our first trip to Italy on Friday (gotta go back to work tomorrow! ). In exactly 2 weeks, we spent 5 days in Rome, 3 days in Florence, and 3 days in Venice. And for the last 2 days we picked up a car in Venice, drove to Lake Garda for a day and night (stopping in Verona for lunch and a quick visit) and then ended up in Milan (just stayed overnight and flew out in the morning). We took the Eurostar train (first class reserved tickets) from Rome to Florence (1 hour, 35 minutes) and then from Florence to Venice (almost 3 hours). It was super-easy. Driving in Milan was absolutely crazy. Traffic is unbelievably bad (and we are Manhattan residents), and the street signs are awful. I thought we were going to kill each other in the car!

Anyway, my point is that Rome/Florence/Venice it totally doable in 2 weeks. Although I'm glad that we had the day in Lake Garda (it was beautiful and a great way to wind down), I would have loved to have another day in Florence. I felt like the 5 days in Rome and the 3 days Venice were appropriate.

We did really want to go to other less touristy places in Italy, but I just decided that for our first Italy trip, this was a nice trip. And it was great! You can't go wrong!

[docsconz]

Cleo, It sounds as if you were lucky to get out when you did. One blackout a year is more than enough for me Seriously, I'm sure that must have been a nightmare for travelers the same way it was in the recent NE US blackout.

[Cleo]

Yeah, my husband and I were just talking about that. I can only imagine what the streets must have been like. Drivers and scooters barely stop at red lights when the traffic lights are working!

By the way, with regard to the Vatican, in an earlier post, it was suggested to get to the Vatican Museum early. I forgot mention in my post above about our visit to the Vatican. We hired a private, licensed tour guide to take us there. He met us at our hotel at 7:30am, and we went straight to the Vatican Museum. He basically pays off the security guard to let us in right away (ahead of all of the groups and individuals). At exactly 8:00, we were inside and at 8:05 we were in the Sistine Chapel--with nobody else in there. It was amazing. But I really didn't know how amazing it was until after visiting the rest of the museum and we had to cut back through the Sistine Chapel to go on to St. Peter's--Sistine Chapel was wall to wall with tour groups. We spent about 3 hours in total with the guide. He's extremely knowledgable (he's actually an archeologist) and he speaks perfect English. It was pretty costly, but well worth it.

I don't usually hire private guides, (the only other time I hired a private guide was in Beijing, China), but I really thought he was great. If anyone is interested, I can give you his name and e-mail address.

[cmvnapa]

During my last trip to Italy, we stayed in Milan for several days and were escorted around the city by one of my cousins-in-law who lives there and works on Corso Buenos Aires. I marveled at his driving - kind of an intricate dance with the other cars, scooters, and pedestrians. He said he learned to drive in Rome which helps. Not having been to Rome, is it worse than Milan?

[hollywood]

He said he learned to drive in Rome which helps.  Not having been to Rome, is it worse than Milan?

Let's put it this way. There were probably fewer accidents in the blackout than normal because the drivers couldn't see where they were going.

[tommy]

just because i haven't responded doesn't mean i'm not reading and thankful.

we're trying to figure out if bologna is worth a trip. i'm going to paste the itinerary from the travel agent here. any comments would be appreciated. :)

Overnight in Milan then take 9 am train to Venice, arriving 11:35 for 3 nts at Hotel xxxx at xxx per nt incl bfast, tax and svce.

Take train to Bologna, 2 hrs,overnight at xxx at xxxx with tax, service, bfast.

Pick up car and then go on to Siena for 1 nt. This would allow visit to San Gimigiano as well. In Siena, xxx is EUR xxxx with tax, svce, bfast and then drive to Florence.

Both the xxx and the xxxx are around xxxx with tax, svce bfast. I would suggest 3 nts and that would allow a day trip to Pisa. Keep the car and on to Rome for 4 nts at the end.

In Rome I would suggest the xxx at xxxx with tax, svce and bfast, good location. Closer to the Spanish Steps runs in the area of 370-450EUR. If you took a car in either Venice or Bologna for 6 days it would be $636 for an automatic or $420 for a manual.

[menton1]

For a car rental, I suggest renting before you leave on the web. Just came back from 3 weeks in France and this company blew away all the others, was about 35% cheaper, included insurance, and prices were in Euros so there was no room for discussion over there. Got a Peugeot 206 which was excellent, got about 50 MPG, handy because gas is so expensive there. But they have many categories of cars if you need automatic, or whatever.

Here is the site:

Car Rentals in Europe

Also, if you use the Autostrada, it has the highest tolls I've ever seen. A 100 mile drive costs about 12 Euros in tolls! If you have time, take the back roads.

[Craig Camp]

Bologna is good - to say the least. Home of Italian communism, mortadella and tortellini. What more could you want?

[JosephB]

we're trying to figure out if bologna is worth a trip.  i'm going to paste the itinerary from the travel agent here.  any comments would be appreciated. :)

  If you took a car in either Venice or Bologna for 6 days it would be $636 for an automatic or $420 for a manual.

Bologna is a great City. It has one of the oldest universities in Europe, so it's youthful and lively. The architecture is interesting, the people are beautiful, and the food is delicious. When we were last there we swore we'd return and spend a week or two. We would like to do an apartment exchange and stay long enough to cook some of the splendid foods available in the excellent markets.

The rental car costs are a killer.

[hollywood]

My amateur thoughts are:

1. might be better to pick either Siena or Bologna as opposed to both-- you'll just get unpacked and have to do it again.

2. what are you doing with the car in Rome? Where are you getting rid of it? This could be a hassle. Maybe train from Pisa to Rome??

3. you're not thinking of driving in Rome, are you? Not recommended unless you are making National Lampoon's Italian Vacation.

4. the location in Rome sounds nice--pretty close to most of the obvious sites except the Vatican.

[menton1]

The rental car costs are a killer.

See my previous message, up about 3 from here-- cheap car rentals!! All taxes and insurance included in the rates!! I have personally used them, so it is for real.

[tommy]

hollywood, i think the plan is to get to rome via car, and dump it there. however, that does imply that i'll have to drive in rome. i'd almost rather lose it before then, but i'm assuming there's some benefit to making the trip from tuscany to rome via car.

Edited September 29, 2003 by tommy (log)

[hollywood]

hollywood, i think the plan is to get to rome via car, and dump it there.  however, that does imply that i'll have to drive in rome.  i'd almost rather lose it before then, but i'm assuming there's some benefit to making the trip from tuscany to rome via car.

Then try to find a drop off on the outskirts. Where's the airport? You don't want to drive in Rome. Also, you don't want to arrive at a rush hour.

[docsconz]

Tommy,

There is little to no benefit IMO in driving from Tuscany to Rome unless you will be stopping along the way. That is probably not realistic with a fairly tight schedule unless you had a specific destination in mind. Tuscany, however, is great to have a car with which to get around. Driving in Rome is anarchy. The Vespas are like gnats - they come out of nowhere and are rather pesky. I have done it and survived, but I wouldn't rush to do it again

Why the xxxx's in your itinerary? :

[Bill Klapp]

Nova car rental did not quite do it for me. I have gotten consistently better rates from Auto Europe.

[Jim Dixon]

tommy,

The drive down the coast from Pisa to Rome is nice...only about 3 hours of actual driving, so you can take a day and stop along the way. It puts you right at Fiumincino airport where you can drop the car, then take the shuttle train right into Rome (the airport is about 20 kms west of Rome).

Be sure to arrange for the car rental before you leave. It's much cheaper. And I like Auto Europe, too, but mostly because that's what my travel agent seems to use and we've had good luck with it.

Jim

[JosephB]

The rental car costs are a killer.

See my previous message, up about 3 from here-- cheap car rentals!! All taxes and insurance included in the rates!! I have personally used them, so it is for real.

Thanks Menton1! I'm getting a quote of EUR 406.00, including the one-way drop off charge of EUR 46.00. My travel agent gave me a quote of approx. $500.00. With the exchange rate it seems that I would still be saving a few bucks! When you're in NY I'll treat you two a dog and a soda ay Gray's Papaya.

[menton1]

Thanks Menton1!  I'm getting a quote of  EUR 406.00, including the one-way drop off charge of EUR 46.00.  My travel agent gave me a quote of approx. $500.00.  With the exchange rate it seems that I would still be saving a few bucks!  When you're in NY I'll treat you two a dog and a soda ay Gray's Papaya.

Yes, I found this web-surfing last spring while checking the usual Hertz, Avis, and Auto Europe. One year I got shortchanged with Auto Europe because they quote in dollars then when you pay at the turn in office they give you a song and a dance with the exchange to local currency--(back then it was Francs)

This place, Nova, was great-- and they charged me exactly what they quoted, no monkey business, the car was almost brand-new, and the rate included that usually-expensive Collision Damage--

Glad it worked out for you!!

(I only paid 305 Euro for a 13 day rental in France, pickup in Nice, drop off in Lyon-- I guess Italy rates are higher? )

P.S. How about Papaya King?

[docsconz]

The rental car costs are a killer.

See my previous message, up about 3 from here-- cheap car rentals!! All taxes and insurance included in the rates!! I have personally used them, so it is for real.

Thanks Menton1! I'm getting a quote of EUR 406.00, including the one-way drop off charge of EUR 46.00. My travel agent gave me a quote of approx. $500.00. With the exchange rate it seems that I would still be saving a few bucks! When you're in NY I'll treat you two a dog and a soda ay Gray's Papaya.

Last I saw the reference rate as seen here was $1.14 to the Euro which would put your rate with Nova at about $515.28. What you will actually pay because of the credit card or other exchange cut is even higher. From a purely financial point of view, the travel agent is cheaper. Another difference I've found today is that the quoted rate for Auto Europe includes theft and CDW with zero deductible. You have to pay extra with Nova for that deductible.

[JosephB]

Last I saw the reference rate as seen here was $1.14 to the Euro which would put your rate with Nova at about $515.28.

Thanks d, but I'm getting $470 at today' rate of 1.157. Maybe I'm missing something

Currency Converter

[docsconz]

Last I saw the reference rate as seen here was $1.14 to the Euro which would put your rate with Nova at about $515.28.

Thanks d, but I'm getting $470 at today' rate of 1.157. Maybe I'm missing something

Currency Converter

Mea culpa, I should read these posts more closely before I throw my $.02 in. I missed the "including" part of the drop-off charge. My apologies - I stand corrected

[tommy]

we're considering taking out Siena. all in favor?

so it would be:

overnight in milan. 9 am train to venice.

3 nights in venice.

train to bologna for 1 night.

drive to florence for 4 nights.

drive to rome (and lose the car right away) for 4 nights.

Edited September 30, 2003 by tommy (log)

[docsconz]

Siena is one of my very favorite places in Italy. Il Campo where they hold the Palio and its Palazzo Publicco are an incredible sight with an incredible ambience. What foodie can resist the "Torre de la Mangia"? In my mind you haven't been to Tuscany if you haven't been to Siena. I would sacrifice one or two days of Rome. While more time is better, a full day in Siena is probably sufficient to get a glimmer of it. Hope this doesn't make things more difficult

[menton1]

Since there was so much discussion about Nova vs. AutoEurope and since I instigated the discussion, I decided to test the 2 sites--

I used a 2 week period from 11/3 to 11/17, the least expensive car, city pickup in Florence, city dropoff in Rome. Nova was 462 Euros, Auto Europe was $464 US. I have only used Nova in France, so I did another test, the same 2 week period, city pickup in Nice, and city dropoff in Lyon. In France, there was a significant difference-- Nova was 330 Euros, Auto Europe was $440US.

Also take into account that Nova INCLUDES the collision damage waiver, with Auto Europe it's $12/day, or a lot of paperwork with Visa if you have an accident, and decline the CDW.

Lessons learned: It's a lot more expensive to rent in Italy than France.

I also had a problem with Auto Europe a couple of years ago because they quote their rates in dollars, and upon turn in, there was a dispute with the Rental Car Company as to the amount actually owed in Euros. It was a real pain in the neck-- they should quote the rates in Euros so there is no room for discussion-- Nova quotes in Euros.

Hope this was helpful, if not a bit wordy.

[tommy]

well doc, we're adding a night to florence by losing siena, and we're also cutting out another hotel stay and another "move". hopefully i'm making the right decision?