The Terrine Topic

[chromedome]

You are correct in both of your assumptions about my post. I was envisioning a full-sized loaf pan, not a mini pan; a mini pan will be fine. And yes, the whole business with the weights was to provide support for the cardboard liner; you don't need to do that with just your pan.

[budrichard]

The process of using 'Cling Wrap' when cooking is not one I do. A loaf pan sufficiently buttered is OK. You need a vent for the steam and an aluminum foil cover with a hole will suffice. Important about a cooked terrine is the water bath and the fat to keep the terrine together when it cools and the preservation by making a seal on the top with the fat. Crisco can be used after cooking and when the terrine is cooled for preservation. -Dick

[Bux]

I assume this whole think with the cling wrap is new technology. I'm an old technology guy. I always line a terrine with a thin layer of pork fat. Some confusion lies in the fact that the earthenware mold and meat loaf are both called a terrine. You could use a thick layer, but no one would eat it and it would be a waste. I've also never made an all veal pate/terrine. In fact, I don't think I've ever made a meat terrine that wasn't at least half pork (if you include the pork fat). You could use all veal but I don't think it would be as interesting tasting. There's also the matter of the fat in the pate. I've seen recipes that call for as much fat as lean meat. That's probably too much for modern tastes, but I like to use the leanest pork I can find and add in minced fat back. I haven't made a pate in a while, but I seem to recall fat being about a third of the weight was best for me.

I like to weigh it down as it cools, but be careful not to be too zealous and squeeze out the fat and juices. You just want to compact the meat a little to improve the texture.

[budrichard]

It has more do with possible leaching of chemicals from the cling wrap. -Dick

[Mottmott]

Does anyone use caul fat to line the terrine? I've never done it, but I think I've seen references to it.

[trillium]

I wasn't sure whether or not to post this here or in the France forum. I made my first serious pâte/terrine recently and I'd appreciate some feedback. I say serious because I tried one years ago from JoC and it was dreadful, and I've done a liver spread out of M. Pepin's book that was fantastic but never went near a terrine. I made a recipe from Saveur's article "Pâte as a Way of Life" or some such title. It involved pig belly, liver, and seasonings. No other binder. The liver was hand minced (by the brave and heroic partner) but I opted to coarsely grind the belly after cubing it and keeping it well chilled. I couldn't bear the thought of that much mincing by hand. I also consulted Charcuterie Specialties because I didn't like how the Saveur recipe had you bake at 375 F the whole time. I opted to go the Charcuterie Specialties route and bake at 375 until the top browns, and then turn down the oven to 190 F. They also have you put a pan of hot water in the oven instead of putting your terrine into a pan of water, which seemed much less fiddly. The only problem was that the top never browned, so I may have kept it at too high temps for too long before I decided to turn down the heat and add the pan of water. Since this pig was one of the fattiest I've worked with, I don't think that the terrine suffered terribly from having a little extra fat render out.

So here is what it looked like going into the vessel. I was very annoyed with Saveur (and myself) because most of the recipes in that article result in a 10 c batch, which doesn't fit in the Le Creuset terrine pan that I think would be most common in a home kitchen. No matter, I improvised and used an old enameled cast iron pot that could fit it.

Then I tucked it all up

and here is what it looked like after baking

then it went into the fridge with weights for 3 days. It came out pretty nicely but as you can see, it's a bit crumbly in the middle.

That of course, didn't stop us from enjoying it with our home-grown cornichons, good bread and a nice mustardy wild green salad!

I felt brave enough to give some to French colleagues, who claim it's as good as anything they've eaten in France, but I'm wondering how much better it could have been. The Charcuterie Specialties book says you must never, ever, use frozen liver because the protein denatures and won't bind the pâte. The American Professional Charcuteries book I also looked at but didn't like as much, sort of encouraged you to freeze the liver to assure yourself that it's as fresh as possible. I didn't really have a choice, the half of pig we bought came frozen, so I went ahead and used frozen liver. My question is if it was the frozen liver or the fact that I didn't hand mince the belly that caused the pate to be a little crumbly in the middle?

regards,

trillium

[Mayhaw Man]

I say that looks great. Nice job and great photos of the effort.

[Bicycle Lee]

I have tried one very much like the one you described making, but I added a healthy skosh of brandy...it gave it a richness and fullness that was a nice offset of the potent liver and belly flavor...Just a suggestion...

and FYI I got that recipe from a French bistro I worked at-direct from the chef. I would recommend grinding it all together (brandy and all) and letting it "steep" before baking...like marinading, so a couple hours in the fridge should do it. Mine was also wrapped in bacon....but that is rather arbitrary by that point.

[Carolyn Tillie]

When it came out of the oven, did you weigh it down at all? That is the only additional thing I can recommend (although the brandy is a good idea, but I don't think it would make much difference in the consistency).

On my terrines, as soon as they come out of the oven, I weigh them down with foil-wrapped bricks the entire time they are setting in the fridge.

Just a thought...

[SethG]

All I can say is that I'm intensely jealous. That looks very tasty.

[trillium]

Thanks for the suggestions. I guess I should have added what the seasonings were. They included cognac, port, and white wine, along with herbs, spices, shallots and garlic. The pâte was weighted for 3 days in the fridge after it came to room temp out of the oven, as suggested by the authors of Charcuterie Specialties. I didn't weigh it down right when it came out of the oven, but rather let it cool first. I guess I could try that next time. It was delicious even if it was a bit crumbly in the middle, but the scary part is that I now know how much fat goes into pâtes and terrines! Yikes.

regards,

trillium

[Adam Balic]

It all looks great, well done.

"Terrine" is derived from 'Terra' as in terracotta etc, and refers to the ceramic dishes they were cooked in. "Pâte" derives from "paste", as they were originally cooked in pastry, basically it means "Pie". This is all largely irrelevant now though.

[ronnie_suburban]

Too bad guajolote's off trolling my gefilte fish thread. He's a seasoned pate' maker who likely has lots of experience and knowledge to share.

=R=

[Carolyn Tillie]

Thanks for the suggestions. I guess I should have added what the seasonings were. They included cognac, port, and white wine, along with herbs, spices, shallots and garlic. The pâte was weighted for 3 days in the fridge after it came to room temp out of the oven, as suggested by the authors of Charcuterie Specialties. I didn't weigh it down right when it came out of the oven, but rather let it cool first. I guess I could try that next time. It was delicious even if it was a bit crumbly in the middle, but the scary part is that I now know how much fat goes into pâtes and terrines! Yikes.

regards,

trillium

It DID look beautiful as I am huge fan of terrines...

And, yep, I'd suggest weighting it immediately upon removal from oven. While hot, it really compresses the juices in and the fat in it will help it all congeal. I am guessing that by waiting for it to cool, it had settled as much as it was going to.

Don't you love it, though?

I am, by the way, terribly jealous of your homemade cornichons! It just makes the dish, doesn't it???

[trillium]

I'll try that next time, and report back. And I do love it. In terms of flavor and texture, it's pretty delicious. It's frightening how easy it is to eat large quantities when you have so much of the stuff lying around. We've given away about 1/4 and eaten about 1/2, it's disappearing much faster than I thought it would.

The cornichons were really easy to make, last summer I grew about 4 Vert de Massy plants in a container in a southern exposure. It was a long, hot summer for the northwest, and now we have more cornichons then we know what to do with. I asked for help translating a recipe in the French forum and they did turn out rather well. When I had to go away for a weekend, the parnter complained bitterly about how prickly they were to pick, but I didn't mind them as much as he did.

I'll confess that I feel like a bad-ass cook to have made both the cornichons and the terrine!

thanks for the help,

trillium

[trillium]

It all looks great, well done.

"Terrine" is derived from 'Terra' as in terracotta etc, and refers to the ceramic dishes they were cooked in. "Pâte" derives from "paste", as they were originally cooked in pastry, basically it means "Pie". This is all largely irrelevant now though.

Yes, that's what my French friends said. They were going to be really impressed if I had done it in one of the clay terrines. Which got me to thinking, I wonder if you could use those little individual sa po (sand pots) that I see in Asian groceries. It might be nice to make smaller ones instead of handing out chunks.

regards,

trillium

[Jonathan Day]

"Terrine" is derived from 'Terra' as in terracotta etc, and refers to the ceramic dishes they were cooked in. "Pâte" derives from "paste", as they were originally cooked in pastry, basically it means "Pie". This is all largely irrelevant now though.

As long as we're talking irrelevant philology:

pâte is from the low Latin pasta which means both pasta as we know it today and pastry -- hence pâte feuilletée, puff paste; pâte brisée, short paste; pâtes (plural) are noodles, macaroni, etc. It can also mean a person's constitution, character or temperament: Elle est d'une pâte à vivre cent ans = She's the sort who will live a hundred years; she's built to live a hundred years.

pâté, with the accent on the e, means the meat or fish preparation discussed in this thread, either cooked in a pâte or in a terrine. I'm not sure whether the connection is that the pâté was originally cooked in pastry or because of its paste-like consistency, but I suspect that the second explanation is correct.

pâté also means an inkstain on a piece of paper and a cluster of houses isolated by roads. And the wet sand children play with on the beach is also called pâté.

pâtée (two e's, feminine) is the mash used to feed some farm animals -- "a mixture of foods reduced to a paste (pâte)".

Here endeth the lesson. And Trillium, that does look very tasty.

[Carolyn Tillie]

The cornichons were really easy to make, last summer I grew about 4 Vert de Massy plants in a container in a southern exposure. It was a long, hot summer for the northwest, and now we have more cornichons then we know what to do with. I asked for help translating a recipe in the French forum and they did turn out rather well. When I had to go away for a weekend, the parnter complained bitterly about how prickly they were to pick, but I didn't mind them as much as he did.

Well I am coming late to my planting but now I'm slightly inspired (especially since you've given me a recipe!).

Now I have to see if I can find 'em round here to get into the ground!

Thanks!

[trillium]

pâté, with the accent on the e, means the meat or fish preparation discussed in this thread, either cooked in a pâte or in a terrine. I'm not sure whether the connection is that the pâté was originally cooked in pastry or because of its paste-like consistency, but I suspect that the second explanation is correct.

Damn. I was so proud of figuring out how to put that thing over the a, and now you're telling me I needed to have an accent on the e too?

Thanks for the lesson!

regards,

trillium

[trillium]

Well I am coming late to my planting but now I'm slightly inspired (especially since you've given me a recipe!).

Now I have to see if I can find 'em round here to get into the ground!

Thanks!

They shouldn't go into the ground until evening temps are above 55 - 60 F. For us, that means we have months and months before they need to be planted. So you might have plenty of time. If you have trouble finding the seeds or starts (I could find both) I'd be happy to mail you some of last year's seeds. Just PM me.

edit to add: the recipe I ended up using is closest to the one in french, not the first two in that thread.

regards,

trillium

Edited March 24, 2004 by trillium (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

Well I am coming late to my planting but now I'm slightly inspired (especially since you've given me a recipe!).

Now I have to see if I can find 'em round here to get into the ground!

Thanks!

They shouldn't go into the ground until evening temps are above 55 - 60 F. For us, that means we have months and months before they need to be planted. So you might have plenty of time. If you have trouble finding the seeds or starts (I could find both) I'd be happy to mail you some of last year's seeds. Just PM me.

edit to add: the recipe I ended up using is closest to the one in french, not the first two in that thread.

regards,

trillium

I think we are there now... it has been in the 80s here NoCal) for the past three weeks.

[Richard Kilgore]

Looks great, trillium. I have not yet done a terrine, but it's on my list for this year.

Does anyone know of a source for a clay terrine? Most that I have seen are either LC or white porcelain such as Pulliviet. Perhaps EH makes one.

[Bux]

The caul fat is just beautiful and not that easy to come by for those whose meats must come from a supermarket.

I find white porcelain to be very nice and I've seen rather small ones that might serve to bake a gift pate/terrine. It's also no unthinkable to use a little round ramekin to make individual terrines.

I generally weigh down the terrine as soon as it comes from the oven and remove the weight as soon as it cools. I suspect weighing it down while it's cooking will eliminate the crumbly texture, but it's also possible to weigh it down too heavily and squeeze all the fat and juice out of the meat.

Jane Grigson's The Art of Charcuterie is a favorite of mine. I don't know if it's in print. It's a small book without photographs.

[formerly grueldelux]

I'll confess that I feel like a bad-ass cook to have made both the cornichons and the terrine!

But of course you were already a bad-ass cook. I still have several of the recipes from your eGCI module in heavy rotation.

-michael

[Adam Balic]

"Terrine" is derived from 'Terra' as in terracotta etc, and refers to the ceramic dishes they were cooked in. "Pâte" derives from "paste", as they were originally cooked in pastry, basically it means "Pie". This is all largely irrelevant now though.

As long as we're talking irrelevant philology:

pâte is from the low Latin pasta which means both pasta as we know it today and pastry -- hence pâte feuilletée, puff paste; pâte brisée, short paste; pâtes (plural) are noodles, macaroni, etc. It can also mean a person's constitution, character or temperament: Elle est d'une pâte à vivre cent ans = She's the sort who will live a hundred years; she's built to live a hundred years.

pâté, with the accent on the e, means the meat or fish preparation discussed in this thread, either cooked in a pâte or in a terrine. I'm not sure whether the connection is that the pâté was originally cooked in pastry or because of its paste-like consistency, but I suspect that the second explanation is correct.

pâté also means an inkstain on a piece of paper and a cluster of houses isolated by roads. And the wet sand children play with on the beach is also called pâté.

pâtée (two e's, feminine) is the mash used to feed some farm animals -- "a mixture of foods reduced to a paste (pâte)".

Here endeth the lesson. And Trillium, that does look very tasty.

Pasta/pate et al. mean "Paste", many terms derive from this root. The distiction of pâte as refering to the consistancy of the filling is interesting and would make sense in the modern usage, but early pâte were simply pies (which has the same latin root) and the fillings were not always a "paste". Also as the pastry shell wasn't eaten originally, it makes sense that the terrine (same root as "Tureen") and pâte would be distinguished by the container, rather then the fillings.

From "Le Menagier de Paris", 1393.

PASTÉS DE VEAU. Prenez de la rouelle de la cuisse, et convient mettre avec, près d'autant de gresse de beuf; et de ce fait-l'en six bons pastés d'assiette.

(VEAL PASTIES. Take the round part of the thigh, and put with it almost as much beef fat; and with this you make six good pasties in platters.)

In the same section there is a chicken pie, the chickens are simply sectioned, not made into a paste.

Still word usages change, so origins are not the only 'right' answer. Pâte en croute, makes little sense as 'pastry in a crust', the 19th century English "Terrine of pâte de foie gras" makes even less sense as pâte=pastry, so the word now refers to the filling alone.