Liquor Licenses and Indian Restaurants

[tommyf]

Having come over from the UK where Indian Restaurants go hand in hand with having a beer or other drink. I amazed at how few Indian restaurants there are in NJ that serve alcohol or wine. Fair enough a few operate the BYO system. But is it so difficult to get a liquor license in NJ???

All comments welcome

[Jason Perlow]

Only a finite number of liquor licenses exist in any particular town. Someone has to give one up in order to get one, and in some towns they have sold for anywhere between half a million and a million dollars.

[tommyf]

That is unbelievable! Is this the same in all states or does NJ have a unique policy on this. Also, how many liquor licenses will a town typically have.

[menton1]

Before you eat, just stop at a liquor store or package goods store and buy the beer or wine that you like and take it in with you to the restaurant.

This New Jersey bureaucratic quirk saves us restaurant goers hundreds of dollars a year!!

[Stone]

Have you ever seen "The Sopranos"?

(By the way, I Massachusetts used to have the same policy. Liquor licenses were like gold.)

[tommyf]

Fair point on being saved the restaurant's mark-up. However, is there always a Liquor store in the vicinity, and surely you are missing out on that unique experience of tasting "Indian Beer"???

[menton1]

That is unbelievable! Is this the same in all states or does NJ have a unique policy on this. Also, how many liquor licenses will a town typically have.

Actually, the approximate figures are 1 license per 2, 500 in population. There are many types of municipalities as well, borough, township, and city. In Bergen County there are 70 municipalities-- the most of any county in the USA!

The only exception is Hoboken, where there are about 100 liquor licenses, because of a strange law enacted after WWII.

But most of feel that a BYOB is a plus, you save a lot of money, and can pick any wine or beer in the liquor store, so you have a much larger selection to choose from for every meal!

Welcome to the Garden State!!

[mainmenu]

Actually, it is slightly more than the limited number of liquor licenses. And it isn't limited to NJ's admittedly bureaucratic laws as a good number of the Indian restaurants in Sixth Street in Manhattan don't have licensing either.

Most of these restaurants have very limited start up capital and razor thin profit margins so they simply can't afford to buy one.

And keep in mind that a surprising number of towns in NJ are completely dry!

On the upside, as someone pointed out, BYOB is welcome at places that can't/don't serve alcohol.

[tommyf]

Is NJ the only state that operates this policy? "Stone: mentioned Mass. used to.

How much do liquor licening laws vary from state to state.?I

have heard Utah has some strict regulations. Other than that is it an open house policy across the US, or does anyone know where I can find out more about this. What is really interesting is the history behind these varying state laws?

[Rosie]

BYO is very common in NJ. Some of us even BYOG--bring our own glasses.

[Double 0]

This isn't a srate by state issue, in many areas its even more local than that. Town ordinances rule on liquor issues.

[menton1]

This isn't a srate by state issue, in many areas its even more local than that. Town ordinances rule on liquor issues.

I disagree with this. Local municipalities can only adjust the rules within the State guidelines; they can ban liquor sales altogether, but by no means can a town of 5,000 people issue more than 2 liquor licenses. (The licenses come from Trenton).

[zephyrus]

texas certainly does not have a finite number of liquor licenses(thank god!), though the texas alcoholic beverage commission does make it hard to get one....

casey

[herbacidal]

liquor licensing varies significantly from state to state.

You've been told the quirks about New Jersey already.

I believe someone indicated in New York, no liquor store owner is allowed to own more than one location, and no more than six days a week, and only recently was allowed to choose which six days, and that based on political finagling. Also, beer is avaible in supermarkets, much like Hong Kong and probably UK. At least, that's what I remember. Can New Yorkers add to this?

Pennsylvania is one of the few states in the country that does not allow liquor and wine sales from entities other than itself. I believe Washington to be another. Beer is sold from licensed distributors and special license delis, but not in supermarkets. The prices and selection for liquor and wine used to be horrible, although that is slowly starting to improve. The discount allowed to volume purchasers of liquor and wine by the state is so minimal (7%) and laden with bureaucratic processes that many restaurants forego the discount just to get on to their next necessary errand.

Perhaps this tangential issue is best moved to somewhere else?

[beans]

Best resource for liquor laws:

TiPS

They used to have liquor laws at a quick glance outline form fashion that was most helpful. However that I understand is changing by administration for "Instructor Only access."

However some of the basics are still available for: each of the states within the United States, District of Columbia, U.S. Virgin Islands and a few pages on each Canadian Provinces. (I forgot, but even some on Mexico may be on there too).

Ohio and Pennsylvania are pretty conservative.

[elyse]

herb, it's illegal here for liquor stores to sell beer here, and supermarkts can't sell liquor.

[MsSumida]

The liquor license application in NJ is over 15 pages long and requires you to be veted by the NJ State Police, NJ ABC and the Town clerk. All funds used for the purchse must show a significant 'paper trail' or risk losing the deposit. Also the amount of regulation, once you get a license is not incentive enough for many people, not to mention insurance costs, and all other tangibles.

The amount of licenses per town was based on population during the 1940's (I believe) New licenses are supposed to be issued by the state in areas with increasing populations, and are supposed to decrease in more urban population areas.

[herbacidal]

herb, it's illegal here for liquor stores to sell beer here, and supermarkts can't sell liquor.

here being new york, correct?

[menton1]

herb, it's illegal here for liquor stores to sell beer here, and supermarkts can't sell liquor.

????? ALL liquor stores in NJ sell beer!!!

[thereuare]

I believe that NJ Supermarkets, if they sell beer/liquor, must do so as an entirely separate entity (which is why many supermarkets have "(supermarket name here) Liquors" set up either next store to the actual supermarket (often with a doorway connecting them) OR as an entirely separate area of the store. Often this liquor store next to the supermarket isn't actually owned by the supermarket and is rented out to a private individual.

On a separate note, i'm not sure of the specifics of the law, but esentially anyone in Hoboken that serves liquor (bartenders, servers, etc (but i don't think liquor store clerks)) must have a 'bar card'. I think the cost of the card is $50 or $100 and has a server's picture id on it. Not really sure why it came about, but i would think the bottom line is that it's another source of revenue for the city. This id must be worn by the server at all times or a hefty fine is involved.

Edited August 11, 2003 by thereuare (log)

[elyse]

herb, it's illegal here for liquor stores to sell beer here, and supermarkts can't sell liquor.

here being new york, correct?

That is correct.

[legendarystarbolt]

I believe that NJ Supermarkets, if they sell beer/liquor, must do so as an entirely separate entity (which is why many supermarkets have "(supermarket name here) Liquors" set up either next store to the actual supermarket (often with a doorway connecting them) OR as an entirely separate area of the store.  Often this liquor store next to the supermarket isn't actually owned by the supermarket and is rented out to a private individual.

The A&P on Route 46 in West Paterson sells beer, wine and liquor within the supermarket, I've never seen that anywhere else in the state before.

[Rosie]

Kings has a wine department in their Caldwell store.