Q&A -- Understanding Stovetop Cookware

[lorea]

What do you think of nickel as a cooking surface? I checked the class again, and I didn't see any mention of it.

I saw this nickel-plated cast iron skillet online, and I was wondering about it, since I've never seen it before.

[mrbigjas]

hey, that's neat.

i wonder if it's any good. i mean, nickel is one of the components in most stainless steel... on the other hand, if it's such a good cookware material, why haven't things been made of it before? just because it's not very thermally conductive? (only slightly moreso than cast iron itself)

or is it because coating a cast iron pan with nickel raises the price 450%, from about $20 to $90? actually i bet that's it--it's just too expensive to be worth it for the most part.

still i think it's kinda neat.

[slkinsey]

I'm with mrbigjas. Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I'd pay 90 bucks for a fancy plated cast iron skillet.

I didn't cover nickel surfaces because it's not a very common metal for cookware. I assume nickel was used in this case because the cast iron pan is plated via electrolysis, something that couldn't be done with stainless steel.

It's a mistake to assume that nickel is totally benign, however. Nickel is one of those things that is essential in minute quantities but can be very bad in larger quantities. Too much nickel can lead to increased rick of lung cancer, nose cancer, larynx cancer and prostate cancer, allergic reactions, dermatitis and other nasty things. I'm not sure these things would happen from occasional use of a nickel cooking surface, but I'll say this: I won't be buying one.

[cake]

pans are tools, not objets d'art...Just shaking a sauté pan on the grate or moving a sauce pan to the side of the burner is likely to make a few little scratches.  Most of the time if you see gleaming mirror-finished cookware without a single scratch, it's a sure sign that it's never been used. 

So I say: relax and just use your pans.

←

Sam,

This gave me a GIANT chuckle. I am a residential interior designer and the firm I used to work for was lucky to have many clients with rather big budgets. We were often working on brand new construction.

Of course, this always mean that there was the requisite gourmet kitchen. I always had to laugh, because we would do things like buy "copper" cookware as accessories, to make it look like these people...ahem... knew how to cook.

And what is funny is that now that after I got divorced and had to sell the house with the really awesome kitchen, I now have a much smaller and less "designed" kitchen and a half-sized, bare bones gas stove that looks like it came from the 60's, yet my cooking is better than it ever has been despite the lack of granite countertops and stainless steel appliances.

I remember back when I was in design school I went on a local multi-house kitchen tour of all these houses that had remodeled their kitchens and now sported "Designer Kitchens". It was kind of like a Designer Showhouse event and benefitted a charity. The kitchens were all nice enough, but some of them were so impractical. I recall one of them had a stove, I think it was a Jenn-Air, with two burners. It was a huge house! I couldn't figure it out how anyone was every going to get much cooking done, particularly if they were going to be entertaining!

I do have to admit, though, that while I agree with you that pans should be used, I have been a bit of a freak when deciding what pans to order since, even though I know that performance should come first, the aesthetics were a big consideration for me (it's a job hazard!).

I did go ahead and order the Falk (it just came, I will post about it in another post), but I *really* had to think about whether I was willing to invest so much in copper pans and not have a shiny finish.

Kind of silly, I know!

[cake]

Sam,

My Falk order has arrived! Not everything was in stock so they shipped out what they had on hand first, and then the balance came in just last night (poor UPS guy was working late--came at about 8pm on a Saturday evening!).

Michael @ the US Falk distributor was super nice. He was VERY communicative about my order via email. Very helpful and a pleasure to work with.

My 11" fry pan came first--about a week ago... I've made chicken milanese, veal scallopini, orzo pilaf and a steak so far. I would have used it more, but there were a few days when I was sick and couldn't cook anything more complicated than pasta.

What can I say, Sam, I looooove this pan.

The one thing about it that is taking me a bit of time to get used to deglazing in it. The fond seems to stick way more than in the previous brand of pan I was using, which was Scanpan Classic. These pans are marketed as non-stick, but they are decidedly NOT the Teflon-coated kind of pan. They are not as slick as teflon, and the "non-stick" surface is not a coating, it is actually integrated into the pan and you can use metal utensils. What's weird is that these pans really do allow fond development (though perhaps not as much as my new pans, but then I never measured them!)

It makes sense that since I am cooking on a s/s surface for pretty much the first time in my life (I grew up in Teflon household with some enamel coated cast-iron thrown in for good measure) that there would be a bit of an adjustment in switching surfaces.

But, all this being the case I find I really have to give this pan several REALLY good scrapes to deglaze, and even when I am done that there is still a bit of residue left when I am cleaning up. Right now I am using this spatula to deglaze, might the specific tool have anything to do with it? I used to use a flat-ended wooden spoon, but as the edge recently split, I chucked it and haven't had a chance to pick up a new one yet, so I decided to use the above-mentioned spat until I can get back to the kitchen store.

What do you think is the best material(s) to scrape up the fond when deglazing? What what you like to use; etc?

Just last night, the two other pans I ordered arrived:

The "Try Me" 7" Saucier (curved sides) and the 11" Saucier (curved sides).

I haven't given them a workout yet since they just got here, but I did make some Chai tea in the small Saucier last night. It poured out of the pan beautifully (no dribbling like the pans with no lips), the milk was easy to deal with since I could control the heat and didn't have to worry about burning or overboiling, and this hefty, solid pan sat solidly on the burner--even when empty, NO tipping. I have used a really cute little All-Clad MC2 1QT saucier for such tasks in the past, and the tipping really irks me. It even tipped a little when full. Pans that cost as much as All-Clad does, IMO, should be manufactured heavily enough so that they do not not tip!

Also, I had to melt a lot of butter for a baking recipe, and while I realize using s/s lined copper for this purpose may be akin to driving a Ferrari around the block at 20mph, it was nonetheless a pleasure. My previous pan for melting butter was a Calphalon butter warmer (with a lid! it was a very cute lid, but so tiny, it almost seemed like a toy and wasn't terribly practical!. It worked find for melting butter, at least so long as you held the handle to keep it from tipping, and of course, that handle got hot quicker than any other pan I've ever owned.

Plus, with the Falk, I was able to keep a low flame and melt slowly, which was nice as it gave me time to assemble the rest of the baking ingredients in the meantime. And since it didn't get all sizzling hot like it did in the Calphalon, I didn't have to wait too long for it to cool (the recipe called for melted butter to cool first before combining). It's a small thing, but not having to wait for butter-that-got-too-hot-while-melting-due-to-hard-to-control-pan to cool was really a nice change of pace.

(Sam, I am sure by now you're probably wondering why I just didn't melt the butter in the microwave--as my counterspace is pretty limited, I got rid of it (as well as my toaster, I just use the oven) when I moved in. I really don't miss it at all, though at first I thought I would. In particular, I discovered by necessity that leftover take-out anything tastes better when reheated in the over. Plus, I'd rather give the precious real estate up for a food-processor and my next purchase--a stand mixer.)

Anyway, I will report back with more on the Falk once I've had more of a chance to use the pans that just came in.

I cannot thank you enough, Sam, for this course, and the terrific opportunity to ask you follow-up questions. In the week that I've started with just that one piece of copper (the fry pan), my food has tasted better, plus it's been more fun to cook!

~Cindy

[cake]

Question: for brand new copper pots, isn't it necessary to remove a coat of varnish that keeps the copper shiny?

Yes. Acetone (aka nail polish remover, but available for less money at your local hardware store) is best, but 93% rubbing alcohol from the drug store will do the trick as well.

I know the Falk isn't shiny, but it didn't mention anything. Just wanted to double check that all I needed to do before using them for the first time was to wash them?

'Cuz that's all I did!

~Cindy

[cake]

Sam,

Now that the copper is (finally) taken care of, I am getting ready to tweak a few other pieces.

Tall Sauce Pan--Narrowing it Down

You had said 4 to 4.5 quarts was a good size. I'm fine with that. Looking at the Bridge website, I see that the S. Professerie doesn't have a tall sauce pan in this size, so that's out. That leaves this Sitram Catering 4.8 Qts for $83 and change, or Paderno 4.4 Qts for $78, which is the one you said you had yourself and had mentioned a while back.

Since the prices and capacities of these two pots are so close, I would just like to have a better grasp of what the materials/construction differences in both of them will mean to me in terms of performance.

One minor consideration for me is the handles. I won't be able to check out these pans in person since I don't live in NYC. But comfy/ergo handles are always a nice bonus as I have a Repetitive Stress Injury in both wrists/elbows, it is always nice when the grip isn't sucky... But still, pan performance and durability is more important to me than the handles.

Same question applies for a Saute Pan--which of these three choices (the two Sitrams and the Paderno) makes the most sense? For the very short term I will be fine with the Falk Saucier, but will soon want to add a saute pan.

Omelette Pan

Not sure my 11" s/s lined copper fry pan is going to cut it for this! Haven't tried it, but imagine it would be too sticky to work unless extremely lubricated with fat, and that much butter under my omelette would make it taste of too much butter and not enough of egg.

What did the French use to make omelettes before non-stick came along? French blue/black steel? (I honestly have to say I don't really understand why blue/black works, but I know it does a great job on my crepes).

I was recently given a hand-me-down French Steel Crepe Pan from Williams-Sonoma which, in addition to using it for its stated purpose, I decided to try using for omelettes, but either my technique needs some work, or the construction of my pan vs. the #-of-eggs pan is different enough to matter (witht the sides of my crepe pan being very shallow and short). Everthing goes fine until it is time to push the eggs to the side of the pan to do the flop-over--there seems to not be enough height or curveto get the eggs to do this, and the flared sides seem to make the eggs want to keep going and slide right out of the pan. So right now, I am stuck using a spat to stop the eggs from sliding out, and also, to do the flop-onto-itself move. (oh the shame!).

As I haven't been able to find a so-named French steel #-of-eggs pan for sale online anywhere (Bridge has a lot of black steel but none are specifically referred to as "egg pans" on the web site) and haven't even seen one except for the pix in the Wit and Wisdom of Eggs thread where you are demo'ing making an omelette in such a pan, and since it is really hard to tell by the photos if there is a difference in the sides between your pan and mine.

And I like omelettes enough, and make them enough, that I would want to have a pan that are better suited for them (unless, you think the pans are pretty much a wash and its my technique that is just sucky).

Other alternatives? Non-stick fry pan of some sort? I don't own any non-stick cookware right now... The Calphalon non-stick that people seemed to swear by sound like they've been long discontinued...

Also, what factors should I know about when deciding between non-stick and the French steel? (other than price) Versatility? (Since I just got the copper stuff, I feel like I am pretty set for most stuff, but if there is some application that non-stick might still be useful for besides eggs, it may be a better choice. I just don't know what that application might be besides super delicate fish, but still, I'd prefer to use at least try the copper for that before resorting to non-stick.)

Lids

I bought a Universal Lid before I found eGullet. It had those concentric ridges (made of thin metal), and in center of the rings was a clear plastic disc so you could see your food cook, and a plastic knob. I gave up on it when I lifted the knob only to have the plastic disk separate from the metal disk.

More recently I got a much sturdier one made of s/s and with a tempered glass disk.

So, I brought the new one home and used it, and only then did I notice that there are a few "steam holes" in the lid. I suspect that these steam holes ares NOT such a good idea, particularly with grain dishes that are supposed to absorb steam. Plus, I don't know if the knob is oven safe.

Am I right to be concerned about these steam holes? Seems to me the point of a cover is to keep the steam IN.

As for the glass "window", I don't actually *want* this -- I find them gimmicky marketing tricks aimed at people who don't know much about cookware (this used to be me until recently )--they sound like a good idea at the store (or on TV) but then you use it and find out that steam from the food obliterates the view. Plus, I once dropped an all-tempered-glass lid--not something I'd like to risk again.

Unfortunately, I have yet to find an all-metal, sturdy Universal Lid. If you know of anything like this, PLMK.

Short of that, I noticed you recommend Paderno lids since they're not too expensive. Sounds reasonable to me. My main concern is that I really want to have as few lids as possible as I'm limited on storage space, plus I don't need then that often, and rarely do I need two at once (when I get a new tall saucepan, I will of course get a lid to go with it). My local restaurant supply place here in Los Angeles carries Vollrath, which I know nothing about, but I wonder if those would also be acceptable?

Right now, my "topless" cookware consists of 11" fry and 11" saucier (both Falk), a 12" cast iron skillet (Lodge), and the small Falk saucier w/ 7.5" diameter.

Okay, I know that was a LOT of questions. Sorry! I am just so happy with my new copper than I want to get everything else "just right" too! Don't mean to overwhelm you!

Best,

Cindy

[andiesenji]

What do you think of nickel as a cooking surface?  I checked the class again, and I didn't see any mention of it.

I saw this nickel-plated cast iron skillet online, and I was wondering about it, since I've never seen it before.

←

Griswold made some nickel-plated cast iron skillets and griddles for a time back in the early 1950s when their business began to fail, mainly to appeal to "modern" housewives who were turning to newer, aluminum and stainless cookware.

Even though there are not a lot of these items around, they are not considered desirable by most collectors.

The nickel plating actually was a cover-up for poor finishing in the newer Griswold cast iron as it was less labor intensive to plate the pieces instead of grind and polish them to a slick finish.

It had little effect on the cooking qualities, appearance was the object.

[andiesenji]

There are several "universal" pot lids available.

This one

has the advantage of having the inner concentric levels below the level of the outer so any drips go into the pan instead of down the outside of it as with some other types.

It is worth the money.

You can also find one in stainless steel for about double the price here.

[wkl]

Is the copper cookware at Dehillerin comparable in quality to the Falk product?

I'm looking at the 11 inch stainless lined saute pan offered for 120.72 euros (about $142) on Dehillerin's website verse $280 for the same pan on Falk's site. I realize there are shipping cost and tax, but that is still quite a difference.

Is there a difference between the two?

[gkg680]

Is the copper cookware at Dehillerin comparable in quality to the Falk product?

I'm looking at the 11 inch stainless lined saute pan offered for 120.72 euros (about $142) on Dehillerin's website verse $280 for the same pan on Falk's site. I realize there are shipping cost and tax, but that is still quite a difference.

Is there a difference between the two?

←

I don't have any Falk copperware, but I bought the above pan from artcopperware.com (the Mauviel factory in Villedieu Les Poeles) by mail a year or two ago. With burdensome French shipping costs (it's very heavy), it was $200 US delivered, but the quality is tremendous. I can't say enough good things about it. And, its appearance is striking.

I may buy the smaller 9.5 inch saute as a gift to myself, to cook smaller portions from time to time. Cooking is twice as much fun with this beautiful copperware.

You can order from artcopperware.com by Email, whereas Dehillerin requires order confirmation by fax. The ideal way to purchase is to be in Paris and bring a few pieces home on the plane. If you've ever been to Dehillerin, you know that their inventory of copperware is the largest such retail stock in the world.

I strongly suspect that whether you buy Falk, or Mauviel, you'll be thrilled with the product quality. Whatever you decide, I hope you post your comments after you take delivery. Best wishes,

Greg in Chicago

[wkl]

Thanks for the reply. I'll try art copper today, as I am still awaiting a reply from Dehillerin. I was in the store in Oct this year, but my suitcases were already bursting from visits to other parts of France!

[gkg680]

Thanks for the reply. I'll try art copper today, as I am still awaiting a reply from Dehillerin. I was in the store in Oct this year, but my suitcases were already bursting from visits to other parts of France!

←

I was in Paris two years ago and couldn't bring copperware home for the same reason, no room in the suitcase.

For what it's worth, when I asked Dehillerin for a quote by Email, it took a week for them to reply. However, my order from artcopperware.com took 2 or 3 weeks to ship. It seemed like they let orders accumulate for a while, then pack and ship them all at once.

Your pan will be in mint condition if you order from either vendor. I almost wish I'd ordered from Dehillerin because I'd have asked them to toss in a copy of their catalog, and I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

Chef Sam Kinsey raves about Falk copperware, but there's nowhere to look at it, mail-order only. In Chicago, conversely, only Sur La Table carries the Mauviel, but prices are insane. I think they want $450 for the saute pan, but it comes with a lid. Fine, but one doesn't use it much.

Whatever you decide, you'll be satisfied, and you'll enjoy the pan. The large cooking surface gives it a lot of versatility.

[wkl]

Just went on artcopperware.com and apparantly the on site store closed on 10/1/05. I tried navagating the site and, eventually, you can link to Mauviel's site. But there is no option to purchase on their site. It's all a bit confusing actually, but it appears you can only order thru Dehillerin on their site.

[gkg680]

Just went on artcopperware.com and apparantly the on site store closed on 10/1/05. I tried navagating the site and, eventually, you can link to Mauviel's site. But there is no option to purchase on their site. It's all a bit confusing actually, but it appears you can only order thru Dehillerin on their site.

←

I checked, and you're correct. I wonder why this happened. Friends of mine went to the Mauviel factory store a year ago, in Normandy. They had limited inventory, and someone had to open the store and turn the lights on.

I would think that the factory store would do business during tourist season, but perhaps the store and/or mail-order facility is unprofitable, or perhaps retailers somewhere in the world complained.

Thank you for pointing this out, I suppose the only bargain left is Dehillerin. No harm done, you'll love the pan, and their price is the same as artcopperware's was. They'll probably even ship faster.

If I misled you, I apologize. Sincere best wishes.

[slkinsey]

Dehillerin is great. And the heavy Mauviel they sell is functionally the same as Falk & Bourgeat (they purchase their stainless/copper bimetal from Falk). It's only really an amazing deal for those of us in the New World if you fly back with a few pans in your suitcase, though. Once you pay tax and shipping and all those other things, it's a long wait to save yourself around fifty bucks (or less, depending on how much you buy) after you figure in Falk's discount. And, to my mind, there is some value in having a relationship with Falk's US distributor who is located in the US and will stand behind his product 100%.

If you can bring some back in your suitcase, though... it's an amazing deal.

[wkl]

gkg680, no apology necessary. I appreciate your help.

[wkl]

A couple questions:

Is it kind of a waste to use copper on electric coil stove top? Or is it just as good on electric coils as gas?

Also, I think of sauteing as shaking or moving the pan around alot, does the weight of a copper saute pan make this more difficult or do you use a different method?

Thanks.

[cake]

there is some value in having a relationship with Falk's US distributor who is located in the US and will stand behind his product 100%.

I can second that. I ordered an 11" curved sauteuse evasee, the Try Me 1.6 QT saucier and the 11" fry pan, all through Michael Harp, Falk's US distributor, and he was very reliable and easy to deal with.

This really was a good thing because when the Brown Truck of Joy arrived, I found that the curved sauteuse evasee was slightly defective in that the handle was a wee bit wiggly where it connected to the pan (at the rivets).

I contacted Michael by email and he replied explaining that there had been a batch of pans on which the rivet holes had been drilled 1 mm too large for the rivets.

He told me to go ahead and use the pan anyway, that it would definitely be fine to use if the amount of liquid in the pan was kept below the rivets. He assured me thatt once he had new inventory in on this item, he would send me a replacement.

I told him that I hadn't yet used the pan, and even though I doubted that he would want it back, I asked him, but he replied as I had expected explaining since it was a damaged itemo it didn't make sense for him to pay to have it shipped back to him, and it would be written off as bad inventory.

True to his word, a 100% perfect replacement pan just arrived earlier this week via UPS.

The two other items which I bought from him are great. I have no complaints and I am very glad I found eGullet and this course! (Hurrah for Sam!)

As for the unused pan with the slightly wiggly handle, it remains unused in a box in my living room. I don't have room for it in my compact kitchen.

[mrsadm]

Just went on artcopperware.com and apparantly the on site store closed on 10/1/05. I tried navagating the site and, eventually, you can link to Mauviel's site. But there is no option to purchase on their site. It's all a bit confusing actually, but it appears you can only order thru Dehillerin on their site.

←

I bought all my copper cookware on e-bay. I got some great bargains on new pans but you have to be savvy about how e-bay works to really get the deals.

I purchased two new Mauviel saucepans that had the name of a NY City gourmet store stamped on them (but very small, near the handle). Probably overstock. They cook as well as a pan without the stamp! No lids - but who needs a copper lid anyway, if your purpose is to cook and not display?

I also got a Mauviel saute with lid that someone received as a gift and decided they didn't like - about half the price of retail. Other items were also brand new, probably from kitchenware stores that went out of business. Some listings state "a few scratches on the bottom from store shelf display". Well, you're going to scratch the pan anyway the first time you use it on the burner.

Check various web sites for discount retail pricing before you decide something is a bargain and bid on it. For Mauviel copper, I check Instawares.com. I ordered one item from Instawares but they screwed up the order - but they are good for comparison. If you order from them, you may have better luck than I did.

Some sellers don't know what type of Mauviel they are selling - there are 3 lines, one is called "tabletop" and is much thinner copper than the other two lines. Need to know which one you are bidding on so you don't pay too much. You also need to check for tin vs. SS lining.

I've also noticed a couple of sellers that sell for other companies and in their listing they state something like, "item may not be in stock; item may ship in 2-3 months". Meanwhile they have your money. I've always avoided those sellers.

Be patient, check e-bay weekly, and the pans you want will probably come along sooner or later!

[slkinsey]

eBay and other places can yield good deals, but be wary. . . The situation is complicated by the fact that there are three copper/stainless lines of Mauviel at 2.5 mm, 2.0 mm (with either iron or stainless handle) and 1.6 mm. And, of course, there is the traditional tin lined stuff in various thicknesses. Often times, if you see someone selling a piece of heavy Mauviel at what seems like an incredibly inexpensive price, it is because it is not actually 2.5 mm. On a place like eBay, where it may be the case that the seller doesn't really know what he has or anyway doesn't have calipers, this is usually simply a mistake. On the other hand, as I believe is mentioned upthread, there are ecommerce sites that sell pieces as "2.5 mm" that they know perfectly well are only 2.0 mm (in at least one documented case, because that particular shape is only manufactured in 2.0 mm).

[mrsadm]

Lines of Mauviel copper:

1. Cuprinox Style - 2.0 mm copper, SS lined, stainless handles

2. Cuprinox - 2.5 mm copper, SS lined, cast iron handles

3. Cuprinox Gourmet - 2.0 mm copper, SS lined, cast iron handles

4. Pour la Table - 1.6 mm copper, SS lined, brass handles - for "tabletop service"

Pictures of the above (not a vendor endorsement, I've never ordered from them):

http://www.metrokitchen.com/mauviel/

5. Professional tin lined - 2-3.5 mm copper - cast iron or bronze handles

Pictures: http://www.buycoppercookware.com/index.cfm?act=list&PRG_ID=4

Also, 6. Pour la Table - 1.0-2.0 mm copper, tin lined

At least these are the ones I've been able to find on web sites from US suppliers.

Edited December 12, 2005 by mrsadm (log)

[Less-is-More]

Question about "seasoning" nonsticks...

I just bought the Kirkland Signature Nonstick Set, based on a #1 rating by Consumer Reports for non-sticks. K.Sig is the Costco brand and I tell you I'm such a snob, it was hard to buy the Costco brand vs. All-Clad, Calphalon, etc... But it performed the best, had the most durable coating, and heated most evenly.

Anyway, I know about seasoning cast iron pans, and woks. But was reading a web page about seasoning my non-sticks. Anyone have any thoughts/experience with this? I thought you weren't supposed to use high heat on nonsticks. High heat is how I season my wok and cast iron skillets.

Aside: I know some people dislike non-sticks, but I love them for certain things. (Like cooking my homemade potstickers -- funny that I don't want them to do as the name suggests, but I like eating the crusty homemade dough, not scraping it off a pan into the trash!)

Thanks for your help!

[mrbigjas]

Lines of Mauviel copper:

1. Cuprinox Style - 2.0 mm copper, SS lined, stainless handles

2. Cuprinox - 2.5 mm copper, SS lined, cast iron handles

3. Cuprinox Gourmet - 2.0 mm copper, SS lined, cast iron handles

4. Pour la Table - 1.6 mm copper, SS lined, brass handles - for "tabletop service"

Pictures of the above (not a vendor endorsement, I've never ordered from them):

http://www.metrokitchen.com/mauviel/

5. Professional tin lined - 2-3.5 mm copper - cast iron or bronze handles

Pictures: http://www.buycoppercookware.com/index.cfm?act=list&PRG_ID=4

Also, 6.  Pour la Table - 1.0-2.0 mm copper, tin lined

At least these are the ones I've been able to find on web sites from US suppliers.

←

ok now i have a quick question. i'm in the market for the 3.7 qt 2.5mm stainless-lined copper saucepan. i really use this size of pan frequently for everything.

now, i don't know either of those websites. but on that metro kitchen site they have it for $265.95 with lid here.

on that second site they have what is ostensibly the same pan on this page for $154.77.

now, i know the copper lids cost (and i don't actually care about having one). but they don't cost THAT much. so i must be missing something. what is it?

[slkinsey]

Less-is-More: you don't season nonstick.

mrbigjas: There are a few things leading to the approximately $110 price difference. First off, yes a 2.5 mm copper/stainless bimetal lid really can cost that much. I've seen prices for copper/stainless bimetal lids that would fit that pot at seventy-plus dollars. It's also the case that the more expensive one is overpriced whereas the less expensive one is quite underpriced. FWIW, you can get a 3.4 quart saucepan from Falk for $175 (no lid).