Getting the Right Table

[Explorer]

What has been your experience re: getting the best possible table in high-end restaurants?

What if you have requested a specific table, and when you arrive- the table offered doesn't meet your expectations, and they aren't flexible about it? Or they give you a table near the passage to the restrooms. Or one near the service station.

From a restaurant perspective, which tables are considered better tables? Corners? By the side?

Which are the worst? Near service station? On the way to the restrooms?

What's the best way to request a specific type of table if you are not familiar with the restaurant layout?

[Fat Guy]

What's the best way to request a specific type of table if you are not familiar with the restaurant layout?

Make an early reservation -- the earlier the better. Most restaurants have plenty of flexibility in their seating plans, and while a few tables might be irrevocably committed to VIP customers, you will have a good selection available to you if you come early.

A few comments in no particular order:

- Tables don't exist purely as abstract concepts in a theoretical restaurant space, like the way they're depicted on the OpenTable computer. Your table exists in a context, which includes: which captain's station you're in, who's sitting near you (particularly significant if your near a large group), and your own notion of aesthetics.

- There are some tables in some restaurants that are just bad in the absolute sense. The clearest example is a table near a lavatory -- though in most upscale restaurants there are passageways, stairs, etc., acting as buffers so it's not like in a diner where you really might have a table within a few feet of a toilet. But at most restaurants, setting aside the clearly bad tables, you will not find widespread customer agreement on which tables are best. Some like to be near the window; others like to be as far away from the window as possible. Some like to be in the center of a room, some like to be on the periphery. Some favor corners; others abhor corners.

- Many restaurants have their own notions of which tables are best, and their regulars may acknowledge a given pecking order, but who cares? Indeed, such ridiculous notions of status are golden opportunities for the contrarian diner.

- Some customers care a lot about which tables they're at; others don't care at all unless a table has particularly bad features (bathroom example again).

- Many people project their idiosyncrasies onto the rest of the world's population, so they believe that just because they're obsessed with, for example, lighting, that everybody else must be too. Thus they interpret -- to continue the example -- being placed at a table with unsatisfactory (to them) lighting as a personal affront.

- The dining room I know best is the one at the now-defunct Lespinasse. It was an exceptionally well laid out room. Every single table in the room had been requested by guests at some point in the restaurant's history. And every single table had also at some point been refused. There was one table that to most people seemed to be, clearly, the worst table in the room: it was very near the kitchen door, so near that the restaurant installed a totally incongruous tri-fold freestanding screen to buffer the table from the kitchen. But once in awhile, someone would demand that table. It was a bit more secluded than most, I suppose. There were also some banquettes along the back walls that most people felt were clearly inferior -- indeed I know of one reviewer who took great umbrage at his party being seated at those banquettes -- yet, again, there were customers who came in, surveyed the room, and chose those banquettes as the best possible table for them.

[Bux]

I have, at times, been surprised to learn which tables a restaurant considered its best tables, not to mention to learn at which table some VIP refused to be seated, or insisted on being seated. I can only assume I still have a lot to learn about behaving like a big shot.

[Explorer]

Wow- Fat Guy has covered a lot of ground...and lots of tables.

Bux- could you elaborate on your intriguing response? anything we can learn from?

I am interested in hearing from restaurant operators about what really goes on behind the scenes and beyond our minds when they get specific requests, and how they assign them, etc...

I have gotten a great table for no particular reason- and sometimes I've been given an unacceptable table even after asking- go figure. I've often wondered if it's the luck of the draw- if you get an inexperienced person on the phone that doesn't translate your request accordingly to the more senior person that does the assignment, then it's a recipe for disaster.

And how about when they make a big deal when you ask for another table, and it looks like they're having a meeting to decide on that outcome- doesn't that irritate you?

[grill-it]

Good subject - thx explorer for bringing it up.

While I agree with Fat Guy that the 'best' table is subjective - I do feel that every client has the right to expect a comfortable and satisfactory table (within reason, of course) when they dine out. In turn, the service staff should do their utmost to make that possible. This being said, it is the clients responsibility to make their requests absolutely clear. The person taking the reservation, and/or the person assigning seating has no idea whether one prefers a table by window, in a corner, or in a tree.

If you're picky, and you are unfamiliar with a restaurant, pay a little visit beforehand if you can - or ask the person on the phone to describe some of the places available. If you have certain dislikes, make them known - ie. ask to avoid corner tables, if you don't like corners. etc. Most good establishments will take the time to listen to their customers needs, and respond to them. In this manner, you lower the risk that you will be unsatisfied with the table on arrival, and you will avoid putting the staff in the sometimes difficult task of re-arranging the seating/reservations.

Personally, I have only experienced a limited number of occasions where I have found a table unacceptable - and one of those was a net result of the neighbours. In nearly every occasion, my request to be moved to an alternate table was granted if it was possible. I suppose it depends on how you ask...

[Raynickben]

Interesting subject. My husband and I are often led to the worst table in the restaurant. This infuriates me as I always make reservations well in advance, I confirm the reservation, we show up on time if not a little early, and we are always dressed appropriately. It happens so often that we get the table by the bathroom or kitchen door that when we are sat at a good table we thank the host/ess profusely! I have no clue why this happens to us.

[Suzanne F]

You mean there is an objective (oops, bad word ) definition of "the best table?" Uh oh, I'm in trouble. My favorite tables tend to be near the servers' station, so that I can chat them up, and where I have a good view of the room. Or, at the very least, where I have enough light to see my food.

If I am not happy with the table to which I am first led -- usually because it is directly under an air conditioning vent, or directly, unavoidably in traffic paths -- I ask to move. Generally not a problem. And if they won't move me, I never go back. So there.

[Pouncy]

My boyfriend and I genrally will ask to be moved if we have a problem with where we're sitting - for example, our 3 year anniversary next to a very loud birthday party at The Charthouse. We explained it was a special night for us, and they sat us in the relatively deserted bar, where we got *fantastic* service! Or another time when we requested a very specific table at Peohe's in Coronado a few weeks in advance (the goodbye dinner before he deployed to the Gulf) and the hostess sat another group there that refused to move. They sat us next to the table (with a drastically different view, more the industrial docks than scenic skyline), but we moved over as soon as the jerks left, and the manager comped our drinks, dessert, and appetizers. They have gained our business (when we can afford it) ever since.

I am a big fan of quietly asking the waiter or waitress if it's possible to move if there's a problem, and the strategy just about always works. We always try to tip a little extra for doing that, too, especially if we're sitting outside in lousy weather, a quirk my boyfriend and I enjoy.

[macrosan]

We were a party of three on my one visit to La Trompette. I arrived second, and was shown to a nice table against the wall in the far left corner of the restaurant, where the first to arrive was seated. The table was discreet and comfortable, and would certainly readily enable quiet converstaion and a relaxed eveing.

When the third in our party arrived, he immediately disliked the table and (without reference to us) asked the waitstaff to move us. They moved us to a table slap bang in the middle of the restaurant, which our number three thought was excellent. I found the table noisy and less comfortable, and I felt "on view" to everyone. Two of us agreed that we would have preferred to remain where we were first seated.

This maybe proves the point about personal preference

On a related issue, I went into my local Italian restaurant on Wednesday, where I have lunch about once a week. For the first time ever, my regular table was occupied and I had to sit at another I actually felt quite aggrieved for a while. Just goes to show what creatures of habit we are, and how readily we accrue to ourselves rights of possession

[Raynickben]

Ok, I understand that every table will appeal to different people but is there anyone out there that actually WANTS to sit by the restrooms? Unless you're a lecherous male and want to watch the girls go by I don't think that table would appeal to anyone. (no offense to lesbians or swingers...you can watch the girls go by too...)

[Katherine]

Ok, I understand that every table will appeal to different people but is there anyone out there that actually WANTS to sit by the restrooms?  Unless you're a lecherous male and want to watch the girls go by I don't think that table would appeal to anyone.  (no offense to lesbians or swingers...you can watch the girls go by too...)

The worst table I ever had was in a small restaurant that had just gotten pretentious, and added a couple of tables to the dining room to seat a few more customers. The only open table was next to the restroom, and I'm not talking about near it. The other patrons actually had to push past one of us to get to it. Since it was a small restaurant, the unisex bathroom didn't have any enclosure in it, and as the door didn't have a closer on it, every time somebody left it, they left the door wide open, with our nearest diner about 3 feet from the toilet. Eeeuuww.

[macrosan]

...but is there anyone out there that actually WANTS to sit by the restrooms?  Unless you're a lecherous male and want to watch the girls go by ...

Well ?

[Toliver]

...we requested a very specific table at Peohe's in Coronado...

I have enjoyed Peohe's everytime I've been there. Ironically, I usually dine there with people who refuse to eat seafood and fortunately, their red meat entrees are just as satisfying.

Their booths do have a crazy cyan Mod-'60's kind of pattern to the cushions but I ignore that and choose to focus on the great bay view. Have you been able to dine out on the deck?

And regarding tables by bathrooms, there was an awesome microbrewery here in the town where I currently live that had the best food and the best beer. Unfortunately, the first thing you smelled when you entered the place were the bathrooms right near the front door. DOH! Talk about an appetite killer. It makes me wonder if the staff just became accustomed to the odor and didn't realize how bad it was. Sadly, they are no longer in business. I hated to see their red ale go...

[pjs]

Got a bad seat at the restaurant? Just do what Hollywood's Cohen Bros. did at Le Pavillon back in the 50's.

Tell the gas-bag owner Henri Soulé that you are raising his rent from 18 to 40 grand a year if he doesn't give up the table you want (BTW, the Cohen's owned the fucking building).

Of course Soulé in his infinite wisdom stonewalled and moved the restaurant to 57th.

Only to return and pay the 40 grand/year with Le Côte Basque.

PJ

PS: The above gleaned from the P. Franey bio, "A Chef's Tale."

Edited August 10, 2003 by pjs (log)

[Bux]

Bux- could you elaborate on your intriguing response? anything we can learn from?

When I posted this?

I have, at times, been surprised to learn which tables a restaurant considered its best tables, not to mention to learn at which table some VIP refused to be seated, or insisted on being seated. I can only assume I still have a lot to learn about behaving like a big shot.

What I meant was that I might like a quiet table in the corner, but the restaurant might consider the vip table to be the one that commands a view of the entrance as well as the one that everyone sees upon entering. Mostly however, I really don't understand the fuss some people make about where they sit in restaurants. I think they do it just to make a fuss. I think that must be how big shots are supposed to behave. I think it's less important to important people.

We did get a really shitty table the other day after waiting forty-five minutes at the bar, but it was a crowded night and we walked in at prime time without a reservation. It stood to reason that were likely to get one of the tables in the bar and not one in the main area because those would all be reserved. It was just that this table was even smaller than most, although not the worst table in the room. We could have refused the table, but we had just finished drinks and were hungry. We had intended to have a at least two courses and a bottle of wine, but felt the table was too small to put plates, bread and elbows on at the same time. When the waiter came we told him the table was only big enough for hamburgers and a carafe of Cotes du Rhone. He said they made great burgers and I said we knew, otherwise we would have left. Sometimes in life, you just have to punt. We know the chefs, but not the owner, and sometimes we're recognized and get a dessert or something on the house. It was a busy night and our name wasn't on the reservation list, so they wouldn't have known we were there that night. Someone has to get the worst table in the house. A really fine restaurant should not have any unacceptable tables. As shitty as I may have said this table was, sitting there having a good hamburger was preferable to staying home and making omelets. I should also note that I have the restaurant's preferred reservation number and that had I called earlier, I might well have had a reservation, so why should I complain?

[fifi]

I travel a lot on business. When I go for dinner, often alone, there is a real problem with getting crappy tables. There seems to be an assumption that a woman dining alone is a bad bet for tips or repeat business. I put on my haughtiest corporate tone and say... "Oh... This will not do at all!" That usually works. And if it does, I tip very well.

A long time ago, I was in Hawaii on business. (Absolutely true.) On the island of Kauai I was staying at one of the resorts. I went down to dinner and this real bitch of a hostess/maitre de sat me at this really dinky table next to a big (and loud) party. Then my server came up and had on one of those "HI! I'M IN TRAINING" buttons. uh oh. I asked the bitch about getting a better table. No dice. IN TRAINING was all flustered at my displeasure. I reassured her and said... "Just watch. I always win." Toward the end of my meal, I saw the bitch headed my way. I took a little notebook and pen out of my purse. She asked, in a not too friendly manner, how I was doing. "Well, my dear, I really do not think that you personify the spirit of hospitality that our corporation aspires to. (all the while I am writing in the notebook, recalling to her the lack of attention to a woman dining alone, etc.) What is your name, my dear?" IN TRAINING was about to bust a gut. I tipped her 30%. The next morning at breakfast, I was immediately shown to the most primo beachside table in the house.

Edited August 10, 2003 by fifi (log)

[Mark Sommelier]

Got a bad seat at the restaurant? Just do what Hollywood's Cohen Bros. did at Le Pavillon back in the 50's.

Tell the gas-bag owner Henri Soulé that you are raising his rent from 18 to 40 grand a year if he doesn't give up the table you want (BTW, the Cohen's owned the fucking building).

Of course Soulé in his infinite wisdom stonewalled and moved the restaurant to 57th.

Only to return and pay the 40 grand/year with Le Côte Basque.

PJ

PS: The above gleaned from the P. Franey bio, "A Chef's Tale."

pjs,

You have to tell the other part of the story. Soulé moved after the Joe Kennedy incident. He rolled the old man in his wheel chair and threw him out on to 55th Street!!They were putting their cigarettes out on the carpet! Henri was enraged. One of the waiters in my restaurant worked there in the early 60's. He's told me the story. Kennedy opened La Caravelle to put him out of business. Cote Basque and Caravalle are still there.

[pjs]

Mark,

Never heard that story, but I love it.

I would of kicked him into the traffic.

PJ

Edited August 11, 2003 by pjs (log)

[tofino]

A cute story from my trip to Paris a few years ago. My wife and I have been managing high end Inns throughout North America over the past 8 years (Vermont, New Mexico, Cape Cod, PEI, Rochester/NY, and now in Tofino. We took a week in Paris several years ago and decided to dine in a hgihly recommended little French Bistro near the Arc de Triomphe. Arriving at our pre determined 10:30pm reservation, we were escorted to a small table right beside the kitchen (we don't mind this actually - being in the business this can be a great place to watch the show), were shown the 'special tourist menu' as was described to us by our server.

This would have all been good except that was the last time we saw our server for the next 15 minutes. No one had stopped by the table, no one asked us about water, drinks anything.

This was a special evening for the two of us, celebrating our anniversary, and when I finally got the Captains attention, he arrived, unimpressed with my trying to flag him down. It wasn't until I ordered a bottle of Cristal, ordered in French, that the moment changed. Immediately, he clapped his hands, two servers arrived, and while we were sitting at the table, picked it up, and moved it about 6 feet away from the kitchen door. Cristal arrived in seconds along with a complimentary plate of smoked salmon. The rest of the evening was amazing to say the least.

The unfortunate part of all of this, is that with all my years in the industry, this is a very common practice. Unless you are known, regulars, or indicate you are going to buy nicer wines etc., servers will treat you with respect and due diligence but very rarely go over the top for you. The reality of this is as long as our employers continue to pay minimum wage or slightly over, making the gratuity such an important part of the servers wage, the style of service, table seatings etc. will continue to be an issue.

Sad but true!

[macrosan]

A cute story from my trip to Paris a few years ago.

I have to say that I find this story far from cute. For me, it epitomizes all the worst characteristics of snobbery and disgraceful service in the restaurant business. I would have walked out.

Unless you are known, regulars, or indicate you are going to buy nicer wines etc., servers will treat you with respect and due diligence but very rarely go over the top for you.

So until you "displayed your credentials" you think you were shown respect and due diligence ? In my book, you were shown contempt.

The reality of this is as long as our employers continue to pay minimum wage or slightly over, making the gratuity such an important part of the servers wage, the style of service, table seatings etc. will continue to be an issue.

I don't believe this in any case. But since servers in France are paid a decent wage and tipping in France is at a much lower rate than in the USA, this would certainly not be true in your French bistro.

Edited August 15, 2003 by macrosan (log)

[Schneier]

I have, at times, been surprised to learn which tables a restaurant considered its best tables, not to mention to learn at which table some VIP refused to be seated, or insisted on being seated. I can only assume I still have a lot to learn about behaving like a big shot.

Often, the "best tables" are the tables where you can see and be seen. The U.S. is very different than Japan, where the best tables have a private enterance so that no one can possibly see you.

Bruce

[wesza]

It's been my personal experience that at most successful restaurants there is rarely ever any table that could be considered a "Bad" table. As often goes with success it's the better operator, who takes the trouble to set up, or utilize his establishment without any seating that is not acceptable to most customers. However, it seems that eventually there evolve so called preferred areas or tables that have their own life. The most important consideration is that for some reason repeat or regular patrons, eventually come to anticipate being seated at the tables where they are reguarly seated. When they make reservations, management often does their best to provide that they are seated at their table. If this is a unavoidable problem, then the operators, make a excuse, and provide something special to the customer. Whenever someone isn't happy with where they are seated, it's generally no problem. Simply advise whomever is seating you, that you'd prefer to be seated elsewhere and won't mind waiting until a more acceptable table becomes available. This polite low keyed method almost always works. There are often customers who prefer being served by their "regular wait person", as many restaurants either rotate, or standardize service stations this may effect table seating. But it's always better to simply not accept a table, that for whatever reason doesn't meet your criteria, then to be made to sit at a location that starts your dining experience with negative vibes. Remember it's your experience, so be firm and don't be wimpy and take any BS. Irwin